Vauban's building requirements are too high [Reply from DE]

[Xgomme]

The problem is not the grind for me, but that some ressources are ONLY in ONE type of missions. 

 

They should remember that some players have everything, so if you put out a weapon with 30k cryo, the only thing I have to do is 20 excavations... x)

Same for neural sensors, and oxium.

 

Give me a bonus in sorties, like if I have cores (like everydays <3) give me a bonus of 5k cryo/oxium whatever (or a choice between cores, ressources and whatever)

[XtDK]

It's pretty pathetic that WF players are actually /defending/ this. "Oh, I no-lifed this game and have TONS OF STUFF, how DARE people think they can have fun with a game. You need to just rethink grinds as fun and stop being UNGRATEFUL" or the classic, "WHAT YOU WANT QUICK GRINDS EVERYWHERE! TWENTY MINUTE GRIND HUE HUE"

When, if anyone is being honest, we're talking about several dozen hours of grinding. For just another Warframe.  This line of thinking is self-destructive, shallow, and asinine- even for people who already have all of the resources needed (like I do).   This may come as a shock, but people who have no life and spend 20 hours a day farming repetitive warframe missions are the vast minority of the population.  One-shotting enemies for hundreds of hours in random Excavator missions are not fun for a vast majority of people.

If you find wasting your life fun, that's great. Glad you enjoy it. But other people don't. That's the problem.

See, MMO games die when their player base dies.  And a declining playerbase also prompts Devs to do stupid things that increase grind, add in pay-walls, and generally ruin the experience until the servers close.  These gestures not only force away all but the most hardcore players but also shuts out new players, making it impossible to recover.  What will DE do when they're actually desperate? WF is profitable, this sort of greed is completely unnecessary to stay soluble.

The real cost isn't in money. It's not in player retention. It's the fact that Warframe is a vertical cliff of grind that new, free players have little to no hope of getting into. And those free players are what keeps the ques for missions short of paying players.  They are not getting a free game, they're making the game we pay for playable.

Everyone loses with this selfish "I wasted my life on pixels, they should waste theirs too!" line of thinking.

[(PSN)Arkel-99]

31 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

First of all, nobody should be buying crafting resources for platinum. That's just sillly.

Second, I had more than enough Cryotic when Sibear came out, and I don't play Excavations more than other missions.

Finally, things are going to cost more now. That's just a fact of Warframe. The Stradavar requires Argon and 8k Polymer Bundles. The Infested weapons of U18.5 have all kinds of lofty building requirements. Every Warframe released since the advent of Nitain extract has required it as an ingredient. Which, by the way @Arkel-99, you can now farm from Reactor Sabotage.

This cost creep is not only useful, but necessary in a game like Warframe. Since veteran players can acquire credits and resources at an incredibly high rate (much higher than new players) and already have heaps of crafting stuff, new items need to have requirements that aren't insignificant to these veterans. If VauPrime cost as much to build as any regular frame, crafting him has no impact on these players and they could just blaze right through all the new content. By making stuff more expensive, it forces players to think more carefully about how they allocate resources. These crafting requirements also limit newer (and often more technical) content to players who have been with the game for a while, while new players learn the basics with cheaper-to-craft weapons and Warframes.

And hey, DE's reducing the Oxium requirements after realizing the amount was a little silly, so we don't have to worry about that.

When new things came out I also had enough resources to build it most of the time. But as new gear gets more and more expensive I can't build most of it anymore by ''just playing the game'' like I normally do.

Some people actually have work, school and/or a social life other than Warframe. That's why I am not able to get every Nitain Extract alert most of the time or grind a single resource for a few hours straight (for example the Oxium, Cryotic).

People who keep defending things like this need to think twice. Not everyone got maybe as much free time as you do.

Maybe these veteran players have, but I don't and I am not alone.

There's something wrong when the game you play has to turn into a job just because of the grind getting worse and worse..

Edited May 18, 2016 by (PS4)Arkel-99

[AsianLyf]

Also with what I said before about taking either 23.33 hours, or one day and 11 hours to farm that amount of oxium. A person would be better off going to work and just straight up buying prime access if you factor in all time needed to farm for the resources and the prime parts+ the time needed for it to be crafted

[Kronxito]

1 hour ago, goatwithbenefits said:

I agree, 140 bucks is a coherent requirement for him.

Of course, I paid it and I'm very happy. Problem?

Remember, nobody works for free. I'm computer engineer and I understand very well developing teams.  So I usually if a software likes to me then I purchase for it.

In this case, I love this game and I was hoping only for Vauban's PA release. It took a long time but he is now here and I got it.

Edited May 18, 2016 by ArionLightning

[HammerofDusk]

Honestly I stopped grinding, I've gotten to the point where after I do my 20th-25th run without getting my target item, I give up, I'll try again next week or next month.

[SilentMobius]

4 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

I ask you, hypothetical Tenno who hates Nitain, straight up. I'm not asking a rhetorically such that the question is an insult, this isn't sarcasm:
What really is THAT BAD about Nitain?

Man I should remember to browse logged in, anyway, nothing I can do about that now.

The problem is with the mechanics of the distribution of Nitain. The volumes of nitain may-or-may not be sufficient for current content, but that is irrelevant to the mechanic being a bad one.

To reiterate: the mechanism for distributing Nitain is bad regardless of how much Nitain you have or you need

So what is wrong with the mechanism:

Nitain is not a "Grind" issue, it is a game/life balance issue, also a fairness issue.

1.  A person who can play for a few hours a day can consistently fail to get Nitain.
2.  A person who can put their life on hold and allocate 4 x 15 mins a day to warframe when Warframe tells them they can can get up to 4 Nitain per day.

If there was 1 * 24 hr Nitain alert per day that would be better. Even better would be a rolling cap of ~7 Nitain per week with a random mission type.

I mean is it really reasonable for:

• A person who can play Warframe at any time when Warframe says so can get 28 Nitain a week for 28 * ~15 mins playtime
• A person who can only play once a day at roughly the same time can only get ~14 Nitain a week for the same amount of playtime
• A person who can only play once a week at roughly the same time can only get ~3 Nitain a week for the same amount of playtime

That to me looks like a bad mechanic when players investing the same time can get 1/9th of the rewards because they aren't putting their life on hold to play the gain right nao!

If DE want to limit Nitain acquisition to a max amount per X time period, thats fine. I don't think Nitain needs to be infinitely "farmable" but the X9 disparity between people who can log on whenever vs those who have to log in less and in larger lumps, even if they play for the same time, is very very bad.

To reiterate this is "not about needing to work for it", this is about two people who do the same work being rewarded very differently for no healthy reason at all.

Edited May 18, 2016 by SilentMobius

[88th_Phantom]

When you look at the megathread and see even the mods are making more backlash

 

So i think it's fair to say this thing is kinda a mess of interests.

For a fact, Vauban Prime was the single most resource demanding iteration of any warframe by the sum relativity of the the rarities of the resources in question, the quantity they drop at and in the case of Nitain, the newness of a resource made only attainable through random alert (This is most definitely the Vauban resource I'd expect).

But what's the problem?

Similar to the sibear (albeit cranked up to 11), there is a divide between new and old players, and even old and old players about how much of any resource they have acquired. I personally have been here since the release of regular vauban and i'm sitting around 5k oxium after no real big spending on resource-demolishing items.

It seems quite obvious that this was put in place to put a dent in the foundry's of what DE has called 'Power Players', they've said enough times how deflating it is for them to put out a new obstacle and have somebody say 'done' to months of effort within an hour. The problem being though for every other player that doesn't fall under that category, they end up hopelessly out of reach, fighting a steep incline that they are neither familiar or comfortable with. 

New Primes and Primes in general already suffer of burn outs and fatigues under the prerequisite of the desired part having a 10% or lower chance of appearing at all, the added spike that can end up bankrupting players of resources must comes across as almost insulting. 

Whilst a large sum of regular players do have them means, There are players that don't for whatever means, whether it be game mode preference, faction preference, planet preference or just pure bad luck with alerts - all these people have ended up with differing quantities of resources and are faced with the same problem, showing a divide in players by something as arbitrary as their preference or enjoyment of different game factors.

It doesn't help telling people it's 'ez' to do something they have no interest or fun doing. It doesn't help to label people who play to abundance as bad/ 'power players' for playing and playing and playing - call it what you want, but that's some dedication and neither parties deserve to be downtrodden or scoffed at for playing the way they want.

It's also rather obtuse to play this under the 'player entitlement gone crazy' card. This is not the issue that is happening right now.

In summary? I think we need a better understanding of the player base as a whole before we try to challenge them all by the standards of the 20%

[SenorClipClop]

Just now, (PS4)Arkel-99 said:

When new things came out I also had enough resources to build it most of the time. But as new gear gets more and more expensive I can't build most of it anymore by ''just playing the game'' like I do normally.

Some people actually have work, school or a social life other than Warframe. That's why I am not able to get every Nitain Extract alert most of the time or grind a single resource for a few hours straight (for example the Oxium, Cryotic).

People who keep defending things like this need to think twice. Not everyone got maybe as much free time as you do.

Maybe these veteran players have, but I don't and I am not alone.

There's something wrong when the game you play has to turn into a job just because of the grind getting worse and worse..

I don't play too often myself (job, social life, other games), and I understand where you're coming from, but I don't agree. When the Stradavar came out I really wanted to pick it up and try it right away, but I had recently donated most of my Polymer Bundles to Clan Research. It took me days (I didn't grind that hard) to build up the 8k, but I didn't mind it because I was patient, and the weapon was still there when I had the resources.

You don't have to grind in Warframe. This may sound ridiculous, but you don't have to grind. All the stuff is still in the game and (with the exception of special events, and stuff headed for the Vault) will still be there when you're ready for it. You can grind to get the stuff you need, but if you're smart about it, grinding should never feel tedious. I personally play the game for fun as a priority, put specific effort into one part of the game (like finding Ivara parts) when I have a hankering to do so and stop for a while once I get bored. This means I don't progress nearly as fast as many players do (I still don't have Ivara), but I'm okay with this, because I'm a patient guy, I will eventually have Ivara, and in a theoretically endless game with barely any direct competition between players, where's the rush?

[goatwithbenefits]

8 minutes ago, ArionLightning said:

Of course, I paid it and I'm very happy. Problem?

Remember, nobody works for free. I'm computer engineer and I understand very well developing teams.  So I usually if a software likes to me then I purchase for it.

In this case, I love this game and I was hoping only for Vauban's PA release. It took a long time but he is now here and I got it.

You're free to do with your money as you please. My problem is that most people (not neccessarily you of course) seem to automatically imply that others are suddenly entitled when it comes to facing the ever growing grindwalls that DE creates in Warframe. The issue is not the lack of instant gratification like most assume, it's the fact these resource costs keep climbing and climbing. Where do you think will this end? I have no idea myself, but I have a feeling it won't be pretty.

I myself am not bothered much by the resource costs themselves, patience is key in that after all. What I dislike most about this is the manner of acquiring the blueprints to begin with which is a complete lottery, an issue that's been around since the first primes. I can understand why some people turn to PA then, if not to support DE. Freedom of choice, I'm not going to judge that.

[(PSN)WetPollito]

Warframe is not only Kill, draco and trade. Is more..........if new players and a few old players allways do the same mission, it haappen, crying for a few resourses 

[Madway7]

1 hour ago, TheBrsrkr said:

Cerberus, not like it matters. Even if you only get 100,you have a WHOLE MONTH. 

It let's others know that this farming location might not be what others believe it to be. Your team did focus on killing though right? With the mission being an interception and all....

[TheBrsrkr]

Just now, Madway7 said:

It let's others know that this farming location might not be what others believe it to be. Your team did focus on killing though right? With the mission being an interception and all....

That wasn't the point. The point is that you can farm it at your own pace. You don't have to get it right at this moment. Even with people who can play 3 hours a day, it's perfectly manageable. 

[Madway7]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)AleDiorio said:

Warframe is not only Kill, draco and trade. Is more..........if new players and a few old players allways do the same mission, it haappen, crying for a few resourses 

Still not the way to go with "promoting other nodes" (if that's what you were getting at)

[Stratego89]

Short answer: no.

Long answer: nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

[Madway7]

1 minute ago, TheBrsrkr said:

That wasn't the point. The point is that you can farm it at your own pace. You don't have to get it right at this moment. Even with people who can play 3 hours a day, it's perfectly manageable. 

In total I got 3.4k Oxium through casual play (never farmed for Oxium and used about 1k on other stuff so far). 600 hours logged. I don't think I'm getting close to 7k anytime soon unless I farm for it.

I have yet to see for myself if the spawn rates of Oxium Ospreys are bad or not so I will hold of my judgement of how efficient getting Oxium can be until then.

 

[(PSN)WetPollito]

1 minute ago, Madway7 said:

Still not the way to go with "promoting other nodes" (if that's what you were getting at)

Yes, you are right is not the way...... but not all players farm resourse, when I put Hosting farm resourse nobody join in... and if they join in,  only stay for 10 min.... they prefer play viod for prime junk and use in the trader (baro)...Is a DE problem or is our problem?

Sorry for my english.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

33 minutes ago, XtDK said:

It's pretty pathetic that WF players are actually /defending/ this. "Oh, I no-lifed this game and have TONS OF STUFF, how DARE people think they can have fun with a game. You need to just rethink grinds as fun and stop being UNGRATEFUL" or the classic, "WHAT YOU WANT QUICK GRINDS EVERYWHERE! TWENTY MINUTE GRIND HUE HUE"

When, if anyone is being honest, we're talking about several dozen hours of grinding. For just another Warframe.  This line of thinking is self-destructive, shallow, and asinine- even for people who already have all of the resources needed (like I do).   This may come as a shock, but people who have no life and spend 20 hours a day farming repetitive warframe missions are the vast minority of the population.  One-shotting enemies for hundreds of hours in random Excavator missions are not fun for a vast majority of people.

If you find wasting your life fun, that's great. Glad you enjoy it. But other people don't. That's the problem.

See, MMO games die when their player base dies.  And a declining playerbase also prompts Devs to do stupid things that increase grind, add in pay-walls, and generally ruin the experience until the servers close.  These gestures not only force away all but the most hardcore players but also shuts out new players, making it impossible to recover.  What will DE do when they're actually desperate? WF is profitable, this sort of greed is completely unnecessary to stay soluble.

The real cost isn't in money. It's not in player retention. It's the fact that Warframe is a vertical cliff of grind that new, free players have little to no hope of getting into. And those free players are what keeps the ques for missions short of paying players.  They are not getting a free game, they're making the game we pay for playable.

Everyone loses with this selfish "I wasted my life on pixels, they should waste theirs too!" line of thinking.

If only I could give you more thumbs up, welll said.

[undernown]

I'll be honest I zoomed in to look at the stat differences only to be disaapointed. Only then i saw it was regular Vauben. 

GG, OP

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

26 minutes ago, -CM-Phantom said:

It doesn't help telling people it's 'ez' to do something they have no interest or fun doing.

So what purpose are they playing a game? Games have some challenge for players to grind out for a reward, so the player gets some meaning/gratification out of spending the time/effort (and content can last for even a month for vets).

I understand the divide between veterans and new players is huge, but a new player in Warframe is really just limited by RNG for parts/BP (the same in other games). But unlike other games, they simply can buy the frame and bypass the grind ... not having to wait 17 weeks for ONE item of ESSENTIAL gear to drop to even survive "end-game" content (and being stuck in character progression) ... and paying even for that misery.

[TheBrsrkr]

20 minutes ago, Madway7 said:

In total I got 3.4k Oxium through casual play (never farmed for Oxium and used about 1k on other stuff so far). 600 hours logged. I don't think I'm getting close to 7k anytime soon unless I farm for it.

You can't expect NOT to farm for it and to be able to build it! That isn't a reasonable expectation to have. 

[Nova-Gamer]

4 minutes ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

So what purpose are they playing a game? Games have some challenge for players to grind out for a reward, so the player gets some meaning/gratification out of spending the time/effort (and content can last for even a month for vets).

The problem is its not FUN to farm all the c*** that's required for Vauban Prime. If I have to work for something and its not fun what so ever then there is a horrible problem with that. I shouldn't be forced to farm unreasonable amounts of a resources for a lackluster frame. I can get a better deal by going out to farm for someone like Nyx or Nyx prime and have better CC than Vauban Prime. 

[Madway7]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)AleDiorio said:

Yes, you are right is not the way...... but not all players farm resourse, when I put Hosting farm resourse nobody join in... and if they join in,  only stay for 10 min.... they prefer play viod for prime junk and use in the trader (baro)...Is a DE problem or is our problem?

Sorry for my english.

Because collecting resources only has a purpose when a player needs it and depending on the resource getting them in itself might not be fun since it's just filling up a quota. 

If it's DE's problem or ours I'm not sure... DE might suffer because at any given time players can simply quit or go on hiatus. And imposing extra (possibly boring) farming on players might cause some to leave.

Is it our problem? Technically yes, but also no. Any given thing in the game is not a "must have" it's up to the player to decide if they want any given thing and how much value they impose upon it.

For example. People don't "need" Vauban Prime or regular Vauban for that matter. People just want it. And depending on the degree that they want this immaterial thing they might get angry at anything that impedes them in their endevour to obtain what they want.

Most people are used to battling RNGesus in the void for primes. And I think it should remain that way. 

(I don't want to talk about Prime Access, as that's a whole discussion about the F2P model and giving players the option to get something right off the bat or compete with growing requirements on getting what you want without needing to pay)

 

[Hypernaut1]

If you're too busy to play WF, then maybe you just need to accept the fact that Vauban isnt for you.

-or maybe now you'll stop ignoring those nitian alerts.

[KiteoHatto]

3 hours ago, goatwithbenefits said:

The question is over the count of how many missions though. How often have you run Cerberus to get that much Oxium?

I don't remember, but since i hate grinding for resources it can't that many. I just don't play the same node of the same faction 99% of the time like the majority.

Edited May 18, 2016 by kiteohatto