Vauban's building requirements are too high [Reply from DE]

[Firetempest]

Stradavar is the newest and not that insane to make market weapon for newer players. Jupiter and t1 towers are not very deep into the game. And its not god awful, two V polarities makes a newer players day. Then we have that Sibear thats rather harsh and something for those who have played a bit. Though its not super great. But its a nitch interesting hammer.

Prime is prestige. Most shouldn't have a luxury on being easily obtained. None of them are remarkably better than the vanilla frame. Except rhino maybe with its sprint speed boost which is a far more valuable trait than even 100 extra armor. While I'm sure they don't want to alienate new players, they have to make some hurdles for players who have been around 1, 2, 3 years. Now the argument breaks a bit when talking about weapons as Prime variants while the numbers may be small, allow mods to explode their usefulness. But thats more fault to the mods themselves. Like many frames can be augmented with Primed mods that make way more difference then any primed frame alone and this boost its bought with void junk. A completely different problem.

[AstroLord]

[KiteoHatto]

13 minutes ago, friendofvampires said:

4 times a day averages to once every 8 hours. 8 hours of sleep guarantees I'll miss at least one, 8 hours of work, likewise. Now count driving, meals, and basic chores and errands and I've probably missed another one. so you "4 a day" is down to MAYBE one if I'm lucky to be playing WF/have an alerts app at that exact moment

So you have no time to play the game really, but you still want the latest thing right now....

You can either buy it(considering your workshift is 8h a day, means you work full time. PA shouldn't cost you an arm and a leg even if you are on a minimum wage, but if you still don't want to buy it then just accept the fact that you will get all nitain you need albeit slowly because of how much time you can spend on the game.

[(PSN)IroncladBomber]

Vauban is my Favorite Frame so Far. And I would Love to get his Prime Version. But honestly dealing with the RNG in the Void that has been eating my T3-T4 Keys left and right and given nothing in return. Then if I do get them, I have to Grind even more. I am up for working for Vauban Prime. But endless grinding just gets irritating.

[friendofvampires]

Just now, kiteohatto said:

So you have no time to play the game really, but you still want the latest thing right now....

You can either buy it(considering your workshift is 8h a day, means you work full time. PA shouldn't cost you an arm and a leg even if you are on a minimum wage, but if you still don't want to buy it then just accept the fact that you will get all nitain you need albeit slowly because of how much time you can spend on the game.

Did I say anything about building anything? I'm discussing the resource on it's own merits and failings. The lack of reliable accessibility being the main issue. The fact that new things are demanding nitain more and more is only compounding the problem

[Liminal]

29 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

Not FARM 3 hours a day, PLAY 3 hours a day. You can spend 40 minutes farming and the rest of the time doing whatever it is you do. 

Here is the thing: in over 3 years I've played the game my way and it's allowed me to get everything at a reasonable pace. I built some things day 1, I built some things a couple of months later. I have more Nitain that necessary right now (31-32 iirc), around 6k cryotic and maybe 3-4k oxium. I have every single item in the game except for the 3 newest weapons (the kohmaks and the rifle mostly because I'm lazy) and the 3 new primes.

If I farm and spend 30k cryotic on the sibear, I won't have anything for Vauban and I'll have to farm even more.
If I spend the Nitain, I may not have enough for a gun released next week + some alt helmet released the next week + the faerie frame + the next prime which will obviously require it too, and I'll forever fall behind since the rate at which I acquire resources is slower than the (release of items requiring them)*(resource inflation).
I've never actively farmed oxium, and it was fine, I could afford stuff; now this item costs not only a ton of nitain and cryotic, but also two grattlers, and since I don't have 7k, it could take me months if I don't change my gaming habits. Months during which other stuff requiring oxium may come out.

And that's the important thing, this game made me feel welcome. I could play it my way and get stuff done. Now if I want to keep up I need to change the way I play and get farmin'. And I didn't sign up for that game, I signed up for the one I was playing until recently.

I was very much considering getting the prime access, I bought them many times before, but just like with the Knux research cost and the Sibear, I refuse to reward what I perceive as bad practice.

Edited May 18, 2016 by The_Doc

[BlackCoMerc]

17 hours ago, tripletriple said:

At first I didn't think it was so bad. But DE are requiring you to have it on everything! Anyone else a little bit salty about this? I find it disgusting DE actually put this in the game personally. I mean Vauban prime 20 extracts! Can we have them in the market at least? 

What if I can't log in at the exact time the alerts are up?

Agree completely. What bothers me most about it is that its not even a legitimate, in universe resource. Its a monetization scheme masquerading as an in game item. And since this one worked so well, there are bound to be more of them in the future, too. 

At this point, for any sane person with a life outside of Warframe, purchasing new frames with cash is REQUIRED in order to play those frames. Something I think reviews of the game going forward need to begin to highlight is this tendency toward pay-to-progress that is taking over Warframe.

[Chipputer]

19 minutes ago, The_Doc said:

I've never actively farmed oxium, and it was fine

And now you have to farm for one item and it's time to flip the table, apparently.

[BlackCoMerc]

4 hours ago, Bizzaro21 said:

I`d be fine with the grind if DE didnt say they wanna reduce it....

speaking of, remember that lie about drop table dilution and why they remove primes to put others? hmmm, let`s take a look at t3 survival, rotaion C in specific.....

here rotation C has more drop items than the other 2 rotations combined......... and they removed loki and his stuff, not sure if one of them had smth to do with t3 surv, but why did they shove vauban`s part there? other keys have a lot of empty slots on their drop tables, smth like t1 surv, it hardly even has parts in its table, why not put a part of the new stuff there? same for t1 def, and a lot of other t1/2 missions that are rarely seen being done......

also remember ivara? that cancerous grind? how about Equinox? perhaps some nitain in there as well? 

in conclusion, DE pretty much lied when they said hey are going to reduce grind, the only thing I still hope will reduce grind is star chart 3.0....

 

  Hide contents

source for drop table is wikia here: http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Orokin_Void/ByMissions

 

Yeah its pretty obvious now that any (fake) concern about grind or void fatigue is an outright untruth. DE has no intention of reducing Grind. They simply dont care. What they do have are lots of players bringing them lots of cash. Until that changes, nothing else will.

[DarkOvion]

38 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

It was never a reasonable expectation to get everything for free. 

Not FARM 3 hours a day, PLAY 3 hours a day. You can spend 40 minutes farming and the rest of the time doing whatever it is you do. 

 

Nice hyperbole you got there. 

 

Then you'll farm some more, because you can. Why do you need to IMMEDIATELY refill your stocks? Why do you need to IMMEDIATELY build Vauban Prime? Why is it an issue when you have literally nothing else to spend it on? Why are you ignoring that you have LITERALLY EVERYTHING ELSE you need to build it tenfold?  This is only an issue if you want it NOW,and that's only an issue in the first place because power farming has been around for years now, and the players at large didn't care enough to stop it. It's far too late to complain now. 

So your solution, is spend 40 minutes a day farming.

So that means 1-2 weeks to get the needed Oxium.

Then another week to get the Cryotic.

Then all the time to farm out the parts.

So it's a reasonable, and fair cost to expect it take take 1-2 months to get?

The fact it's 2-3 times the overall cost of any other warframe (inc primes) and all is irrelevant right?

[BlackCoMerc]

If I were to review this game, as it is right now, I would in good conscience HAVE TO MAKE the following statement:

"For anyone wishing to try additional Warframes beyond the starter and a select few others, purchasing them with real cash, or the in game currency only available in exchange for cash, will be mandatory. Simply put, the amount of grind, and the number of RNG grind walls, between a free player and any of the items added to the game in the last 6-12 months is far too high. Coupled with the fact that items are locked behind Mastery Rank more frequently, and that the only way to achieve higher mastery ranks is to level up additional Warframes and Weapons - each of which requires one of your unnecessarily limited Item Slots, which also are only available in exchange for cash - I have to conclude that, for any reasonable person with a life outside of Warframe, the game can ONLY be called, in all honesty, PAY TO PROGRESS."

Reviewing Warframe without making a disclosure such as this, is disingenuous at best and probably outright dishonest. This wasn't true a year ago. A year ago, even Prime frames, though cumbersome to obtain, were fairly reliable as in game rewards. This is not so now; outrageous Oxiom requirements, coupled with the additiona of Nitain - a monetization scheme masquerading as an in game item - and then further paired with the blatant and intention over-dilution of the T3 Survival C rotation, has moved Warframe pretty firmly into Pay-to-Progress territory. Once more of the current suite of items and weapons are locked behind Mastery Ranks, if these other very concerns are not alleviated, claiming that Warframe is anything BUT pay-to-progress will be outright dishonesty from the get go.

[NotAnNSASpy]

Don't have much to say. You said everything. Good job. Hope DE sees this post. They won't respond, but they'll know, what they have been doing the last few months is not ok.

[Firetempest]

Prestige Prime warframes are not new warframes. The last new warframe was a rather simple quest thats available to purchase every single Baro visit.. You're upset you cant get shinys in two days of release.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Firetempest

[(PSN)ArnnFrost]

Well..... every MMO I ever played was like that xD its called Pay for convenience since you can do well without paying a penny for extra work. Hell, call me crazy but I enjoy farming than instantly obtaining what I want otherwise I'd lose interest real quick. 

Soooooo yeah, the day for Warframe to be called Pay To Progress aka Pay To Win is still far away. Keep in mind that this game is a Free2Play game and the developers need money to keep on making content which they nailed it successfully unlike Destiny (god I can't even keep that game off my mind....) You pay for entry,  for progressing AND for new contents that are supposed to be free! 

Edited May 18, 2016 by (PS4)ArnnFrost

[Multicom-EN-]

While you're somewhat correct, grind is part of the game. It's just that it's way too much now and getting worse and worse. I'm tired of it. 

Adding more bullsh*t resources that require alot of grind to get, ontop of dilluted droptables (instead of adding more to OD missions) coupled with new weapons being Mastery Rank locked at a too high level (Stradavar anyone?) is making me question wether the devs believe in what they do anymore. I could go on and on, but it would just be repeating what alot of players have already said, yet they don't seem to listen.

[MagPrime]

I'm sorry, but this is just...dumb.

I have an active life outside of Warframe and have had little to no issue progressing without dropping money. (don't get me wrong, boy have I dropped money but that was for the express purpose of gifting weapons, Warframes and packs to other players as well as being lazy when the grind got to be bad.)

I have slots for almost every Warframe in the game, and those were earned through trading with clan mates or when I was too lazy to think about which Warframe to delete.

Every game has limited inventory slots, some let you use in game mechanics or money to gain more and other require real world money, or a combination thereof.

[marshmellory]

the frame(s) you're complaining about are just shiny new skins. they are in no means necessary to advance gameplay and make up the minority of frames available to players.

[(PSN)Cwellann]

13 minutes ago, DarkOvion said:

So it's a reasonable, and fair cost to expect it take take 1-2 months to get?

This is honestly pretty close to my benchmark.  If I can get an entire prime release set before the next Prime Access, I'm content.  It was really close with the Dual Kamas and Spira, but it squeaked in.  My biggest problem is with the droprates being what they are, a few buddies and I spent pretty much all evening yesterday farming Vauban, and walked away totally empty handed.  That is demoralizing as anything.  Everyone just logged off last night sad.  This is a big part of why I think one "trash drop" per prime is a great idea - that first day you're almost guaranteed to get something, and it gives you that kick to keep farming, even if it's just one part and then a month before the next one, you've gotten off the blocks.  As it is, it's so much of a grind I'd rather just farm it out of the trade channel, and that kinda short circuits the whole point, because while I enjoy showing off as the yellow number guy in T4S, it gets boring after a hundred Orokin cells and silver cores.

[lukshu]

If you want things the moment they come out you have to pay, that's nothing new. I agree that the building requirements for Vauban Prime or the Ice Melee weapon are annoyingly high, but it's nothing you can't farm. Is it really so hard to patient and work for a goal?

Dropsrates in the void are much worse, as you can't 'work' for your success, you have to hope that RNGesus is merciful. Of course you have to optain a random dropping key first...

[Hypernaut1]

Lock?

This is just another whine and rant tantrum thread.  It should just join the others.

[Atlas.0-5]

 

6 minutes ago, Noamuth said:

I'm sorry, but this is just...dumb.

I have an active life outside of Warframe and have had little to no issue progressing without dropping money. (don't get me wrong, boy have I dropped money but that was for the express purpose of gifting weapons, Warframes and packs to other players as well as being lazy when the grind got to be bad.)

I have slots for almost every Warframe in the game, and those were earned through trading with clan mates or when I was too lazy to think about which Warframe to delete.

Every game has limited inventory slots, some let you use in game mechanics or money to gain more and other require real world money, or a combination thereof.

 I agree with this, the game isn't inherently a really bad grind. Although it can be better, as someone pointed out in a post a day ago or so, the most drops of any mission ever is Tower Surival III C just as an example.

 

Meanwhile there is nintain, which for me, is a complete pain to get as I work odd hours and I'm not usually around to get those since there are only a certain amount a day.  Why isn't this a rare drop from high ranked tower keys?

 

This game has one of the best payware models I've ever seen, but recently there have been some issues with the grind.

It just shouldn't be that someone buys it because they are completely tired of trying to get the piece after 10 hours of trying, than just buying the frame cause you want it immediately and have the cash to spend.

 

buying something because you want to is good

buying it because you don't have the time to spend anymore trying to get a part is bad.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Atlas.0-5

[DaftMeat]

< Started a second account, got all the way up to MR 12. While I bought some budget platinum on sale, I've managed to trade for more platinum than I've bought our even used.

Disagree.

[(PSN)JaysInc_]

Let me just nitpick a few things:

"For anyone wishing to try additional Warframes beyond the starter and a select few others, purchasing them with real cash, or the in game currency only available in exchange for cash, will be mandatory"

I am MR 10 currently have 10 Warframes, 20+ weapons, 3 kubrows, and sentinels without spending as much as a dime. To say that it is "mandatory" is unjust. 

"Simply put, the amount of grind, and the number of RNG grind walls, between a free player and any of the items added to the game in the last 6-12 months is far too high."

I've started Warframe on the ps4 around January, in about 5 months I've managed to reach MR 10, although it may be shorter time for some, or even longer, the grind isn't really hindering*.

"Coupled with the fact that items are locked behind Mastery Rank more frequently"

Last time I remember when I was a newb to this game, there were only a few items (probably 3-5) that were mastery locked.

 

*Yes with the introduction of Vauban Prime and his absurd requirements most of the community will draw the to conclusion that DE is trying to grab money with the use of their PAs. But this one Warframe can't be representative for what is to come in the future.

Edited May 18, 2016 by (PS4)JaysInc_
New info

[(PSN)B0XMAN517]

It's a free to pay game. At some point you will "have" to pay. Think of it as any other game of this magnitude, spend $60, use it wisely, and enjoy yourself.

[tomorrow]

Real talk, I would love for DE to properly address the resource creep in a devstream or at tennocon. Can someone just ask them to discuss it with the playerbase or even just the council. Or i don't know, find some way to get proper feedback because honestly the resource creep is becoming really bad.