Dev Workshop Part 2: ...& more Warframe Changes.

[RazrOutlaw]

Devs, If you wan't to bring balance to the game, I'm more than fine with it, but please, don't rush it, don't go around just nerfing frames and assuming that's going to balance the game when eventually you rework the enemy system, and don't nerf the enemies anymore (on the last patches from raathum all enemies where nerfed, same when the hyekka master was introduced, if we have so many "overpowered" frames, what's up with nerfing the enemies?), I ask you, please, to just try and balance everything (both enemies and frames, especially underpowered ones like Oberon) and release a big balance patch, I think that's the healthiest thing to do and we all can wait for it.

[(PSN)BlitzKeir]

1 minute ago, DxAdder said:

I see where your coming from but at least 50% of the player base are casual players who almost depend on OP frames abilities to get any where in void missions or to participate in Sorties. Will it affect Hardcore players ? Nope . 

I would be concerned about how much of the "Fun"  Factor is being removed for casuals, there the ones who will rage quit.

 

Believe me, I know. I was a noob too once. Valkyr was one of my first frames, and I mained her for a long time before I learned how armor worked and how powerful her other abilities were... well, except Ripline. Very questionable use. Would have more combat application if she could grapple multiple enemies, sorta like the Strider class's Ensnare ability in Dragon's Dogma.

That's why I'm pushing for enemy reworks, instead of frame balancing. The game would be far more fun if enemies were interesting to fight.

*cough* I also have a thread where I pitch a revision to how forma works. It would let you freely change the polarity of any slot with an existing polarity, be it innate or added through forma. Would eliminate the forma anxiety new players face (not knowing how to design a build), and make forma extremely desirable. I would forma every single slot on every single frame, and enjoy every second of it.

[gluih]

4 minutes ago, DxAdder said:

I see where your coming from but at least 50% of the player base are casual players who almost depend on OP frames abilities to get any where in void missions or to participate in Sorties. Will it affect Hardcore players ? Nope . 

I would be concerned about how much of the "Fun"  Factor is being removed for casuals, there the ones who will rage quit.

 

Those casual players don't actually rely on any OP frames. They just play whatever they find fun no matter how bad it is. These changes affect those who want to be hardcore players, but can't because all they are able to do is grab OP frames and spam 1 ability.

[Magnulast]

1 minute ago, 3thereal said:

Update 18.13 - Nerf patch. 

Can you guys please address the real issues in the game instead of nerfing frames and buffing others? 

1. Energy Efficiency mods make spam abilities possible and the game is now balanced around that- This totally kills new player experience for players that don't have mandatory Energy Effiiency/Capacity mods.

2. Enemy Armor scaling makes enemies at a certain point complete bullet sponges unless you use the mandatory 4x CP aura

       2a. This also make Radiation, Corrosive, and Puncture Damage the best damage types in the other 90% of the time you don't have a 4x CP aura team

3. Nullifiers completely negate the powers of tenno and only real counter is a High RoF penalizing Snipers/Bows ETC weapons

4. Stacking Shield drones make corpus ridiculously OP unless you have Mag whose Shield polarize is now nerfed

5. High Level 1 shot enemies (Homing Bombard Rockets, Nullifiers Lanka) are not a fun way to play end-game and damage scaling needs to be looked as the current tactic revolve around CC abilities late game

6. Ammo scaling, Should scale with total ammo pool which would make ammo pickups viable on high RoF weapons. 

7. Ability Scaling (you guys are finally getting the point around this) needs to be implemented more.

8. Enemies need a Aggro Draw mechanic

I was actually waiting for this post....meaning that I don't know when these "Nerfs" to frames will come.

I'm dying to know when the enemy scaling and warframe powers are being reworked.

[Godzilla853]

The main problem with trinity blessing is that you can damage yourself to build damage reduction also lets not touch the range on trinity's blessing in less the farther away you are the less healing.

[night501]

Where is the balance of limbo on rift surge?

Edited May 27, 2016 by night501

[BlackCoMerc]

5 minutes ago, KJRenz said:

So what you're saying is that you compare Warframe, a free to play game, to a paid game such as Dark souls? Because that comparison is horrible.

Again, relying on Metacrtic for your source of argument doesn't work.

Comparing Warframe to Dark Souls, in terms of entertainment value, is perfectly fine. They are both video games developed to make money while entertaining players.

Considering Warframe is a game that gets AT LEAST as much wrong as right, I think the 68 score is in fact GENEROUS. I mean lets face it: This is game moving ever closer to a pay-to-progress model with every update, that has done nothing to improve its core game play in more than a year while doubling down on horrible enemy scaling issues and motion sickness inducing Archwing missions, adding ridiculous Rathuum walls - and that will be a HARD WALL for some - to Star Map progression and hiding more loot on T3S Rot C yet again while claiming they are sympathetic to the grind.

Frankly, I dont think it deserves a 68 - I am thinking more in the neighborhood of 25/100, for the excellent models, animations and level design, which is about the list of things the game has gotten right in the last year or so.

[Kai_Shiba]

1 minute ago, DeltaRED said:

You pay for Dark Souls once ,and you have full game ,that you can enjoy ... and you have WARFRAME that is "F2P" but as you can see people pay a lot more then what the price of Dark Souls is ,and still what this game does ... nerf good stuff and create negative energy of forum.

PRIME ACCESS ,PLAT overal costs ... HELO ,use some brain

AND FOR CHRIST SAKE ... quote my whole post ... not just part that you like.

Prime access etc are optional, you don't need to pay for anything at all. Optional, People CHOSE to pay.

Nerf and Buffs/changes are part of what Warframe is, YOU signed up for it when you started the game. It's in the EULA as well. The game is subject to change at anytime.

You're comparing two different games with their own business practice. Once you buy Dark souls, it's done, there are a few patches here and there, some DLC, then there's no more.

Warframe is ever changing constantly once a week to monthly with new additions/fixes/changes. I agree that enemy scaling needs to be fixed.

[Czin]

If these two melee ultimates are receiving said changes, then give them the ability to benefit from blood rush and body count to compensate.

[Magnulast]

56 minutes ago, (PS4)Doctor-Blitz- said:

This is a nerf storm. It will reduce the fun factor of the game. The objective of the game is not equality, it's fun. To be owerpowed makes fun most of the times and because this game is about PvE nobody will be harmed.

stop the nerf, please.

Yeah, because stun-locking the map makes the game fun FOR OTHER PLAYERS.

It's just stupid. If I want to fight, I want to fight, I don't join a mission to do nothing.

Don't even get me started on the Troll Ash Bladestorm is.

And how much "Fun" it is when people use bless trinity all the time to remove a challenge.

Keep with your "Fun" just don't ruin my fun.

[Circle_of_Psi]

Reposting for Visibility: 

I like the changes for once!

 

@[DE]Rebecca: I kown this is a fan concept, but I'll like to bring your attention to this, alot of players enjoy it and I feel the devs at the table AKA: Drew may like this idea of Bladestrom or Ash's "rework" 

Please altest take a read into it Rebecca

 

Also: I have to ask, is the Limo rework in play?, with his change of Passive & Rift Surge? 

 

[IEpicWolfI]

CAN WE HAVE SOME CHROMA CHANGES ALREADY!?

[heskaroid]

>valkyr still has godmode

>no actual mesa rework

Are you kidding me?

[Arkvold]

Okay DE.  I'm going to step back from the actual decisions being made here.  I want to talk about the philosophy behind them, and what you, as developers, need to be thinking about when you make these changes.  They smack of kneejerk reactions, without understanding the deeper meanings of why things happen the way they do.  So as someone who's worked in game development myself, I'm going to help you bridge the gap between player's-eye viewpoint and dev's-eye viewpoint.

Now, with any content you make, people are going to look for strategies that beat it.  That's the nature of the game.  It's the nature of every video game - to overcome the challenges the devs have put before you and reap the rewards, then use those rewards to meet and overcome the next set of challenges.  Your goal, as a developer, is to provide a challenge to your playerbase that is difficult enough to require strategy and tactics and preparation, but is also winnable within a margin of error that is humanly achievable.

Warframe's highest-end content has a serious problem with that.  Once enemy levels get into the 60s, 70s, 80s+, survival becomes increasingly binary.  You are either alive and strictly invulnerable, invisible, or sheltered behind tens of thousands of intervening effective health points, or you are dead the moment you are exposed to enemy fire.  First it's the bombards, who deal ridiculous damage over huge AoE.  Then you notice that seekers and eviscerators are one-shotting you too, and soon enough you fear stepping outside that Frost's bubble for even a half second lest you catch a stray Grakata round and spontaneously evaporate into a cloud of gore.

Some people look at that and go 'nope, not playing that, that's not fun.'  In the interest of full disclosure, I'm one of 'em, typically.  I've never been fond of games where one slight mistake will end you.  This is why I don't play sorties, despite the rewards.  I don't know a lot of people, I don't like trying to put together a team for it, and it has such strict requirements on what you can and cannot bring to the table that most of my arsenal is useless in it.

Others, however, look at that and go 'challenge accepted.'  They will look for ways to overcome even this extreme difficulty.  Like Ivara surviving while invisible and using sleep arrow and covert lethality to score kills regardless of armor and HP.  Or Blind Mirage rendering entire spawns comatose across an entire map and then merrily obliterating them one after another.  Or Ash using a combination of invulnerability and finisher damage to kill enemies he could never take in a straight fight.  Or Excalibur utilizing EB's range and blind-spin to get free finishers and stay out of reach of enemies while still benefitting from his sword boost passive.

The fact is, players look for ways to trivialize content because there's content that's very good at trivializing players. In fact, using content-trivializing strategies is the only way to survive player-trivializing content.

When health and armor don't matter, and shields are merely a formality between enemies and your health, your best guns take off mere slivers of enemy health, and all the buffs in the world won't fix either of those situations, that's when players reach for the nuke options - invulnerability, invisibility, scaling damage absorption, finisher damage, finisher openers, and instant-kills.

What's important to remember is that players are right to do this.  You made the content capable of obliterating anyone without these tools; therefore, players are going to use the tools you gave them that work.  And they're going to keep using them, until you either take the tools away (nerfing), or the tools are no longer necessary and there are more efficient and less-drastic means of accomplishing the mission.  If my guns started to deal damage again, and my shields and health could actually survive a bullet or two, I might decide to use them over wtfhax bladestorm/stacked snowglobes/BLIND BLIND BLIND SLEEP SLEEP SLEEP FINISHER FINISHER FINISHER.

So here's what you, as game devs, need to do.  Ask yourselves the question, "What are players SUPPOSED to do to defeat this content?"  And gear your changes towards THAT.  You need to make a hard decision as to what gear and what methods players are allowed to use, and which are exploitative and need to be either nerfed-out or compensated for.  The answer "Players aren't supposed to defeat this content" isn't an acceptable answer; it's a terrible GM that measures success in trashed character sheets, and likewise it's a terrible developer that measures success in Game Overs.

Finally, you need to look at rewards in the light of the effort required to get them.  If defeating a piece of content is supposed to be a difficult task and a momentous event when you and your cell succeeds, then the rewards should be commensurate.  The rewards need to be something immediately good and useful.  If you throw out player-trivializing content, and then say to those who beat it "Congratulations, now run it five hundred times more if you want a reasonable chance to get the actual good rewards from it" then they're going to look at you, scoff, and walk out.

This is how you make good gameplay.

Edited May 27, 2016 by Arkvold
Correcting grammatical errors

[Kai_Shiba]

11 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Comparing Warframe to Dark Souls, in terms of entertainment value, is perfectly fine. They are both video games developed to make money while entertaining players.

Considering Warframe is a game that gets AT LEAST as much wrong as right, I think the 68 score is in fact GENEROUS. I mean lets face it: This is game moving ever closer to a pay-to-progress model with every update, that has done nothing to improve its core game play in more than a year while doubling down on horrible enemy scaling issues and motion sickness inducing Archwing missions, adding ridiculous Rathuum walls - and that will be a HARD WALL for some - to Star Map progression and hiding more loot on T3S Rot C yet again while claiming they are sympathetic to the grind.

Frankly, I dont think it deserves a 68 - I am thinking more in the neighborhood of 25/100, for the excellent models, animations and level design, which is about the list of things the game has gotten right in the last year or so.

Comparing a completely finished product that will never change, to one that ever changes constantly. Of course there will be different entertainment values.

I also fail to see how Warframe is going towards the pay-to-progress route, since I infact started a second account for testing "new player progression" and there has been zero issues of progression, only issues I've been seeing is the god awful Starchart and no information at the start for new players.

If by pay-to-progress, can I pay my way towards the starchart? Can I pay my way to draco? No, you can't. Can you pay for free ranks in levels for my weapons? No.

You don't NEED the new prime stuff that comes out. You really don't need it, you WANT it, but you don't need it now.

I keep seeing people grind and grind and grind, then complaining about it. What happened to having fun? I would just tell them to stop torturing themselves and just play for fun. Don't grind everyday for every second, that just hurts the person doing it, constantly doing the same misson over and over, without doing something else like some weird random loadout for fun.

Players force themselves to the point where they believe that Warframe is a job by grinding nonstop on T3 Void. Come back to it later, New prime items are going to be there for a looooong time.

 

 

Edited May 27, 2016 by KJRenz

[(PSN)BlitzKeir]

3 minutes ago, Arkvold said:

bigass muffuggin post

Can I shake your hand?

Maybe we should be starting threads about enemy balancing.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, KJRenz said:

Prime access etc are optional, you don't need to pay for anything at all. Optional, People CHOSE to pay.

Nerf and Buffs/changes are part of what Warframe is, YOU signed up for it when you started the game. It's in the EULA as well. The game is subject to change at anytime.

You're comparing two different games with their own business practice. Once you buy Dark souls, it's done, there are a few patches here and there, some DLC, then there's no more.

Warframe is ever changing constantly once a week to monthly with new additions/fixes/changes. I agree that enemy scaling needs to be fixed.

Ok so I will stop paying my money then to Warframe ... if things stand that way ...

I didnt even got a refund when I bought Palatine bundle after I bought palatine rhino skin (not knowing there is a bundle) ... when I sent a ticket to support ...

 

Edited May 27, 2016 by Guest

[Kai_Shiba]

1 minute ago, DeltaRED said:

Ok so I will stop paying my money then to Warframe ... if things stand that way ...

 

Alright, that's your choice then.

[(PSN)Cwellann]

32 minutes ago, ThatOddDeer said:

The EB stance itself has easy combos but with seemingly non-existent payout.

I'd like to see a change to something like blind justice, which has an awful mash E combo but its other 3 combos are all varied, unique and rewarding.

I totally agree - and am a huge fan of that particular analogy, as my EB-stick is a Blind Justice Nikana Prime.

31 minutes ago, Magnulast said:

KILL THE ORBITAL STRIKE DRONE FOR ONCE.

You don't always do this?  Ok, am I doing it wrong or is everyone else? :3

Honestly, I just think the minimum safe number's going to switch to 6.  The pad puzzle really isn't an issue.  Just block, might take an extra attempt or two, but I've been in 4 man's with a terrible Mirage, and got it done in under 5 minutes.  Frost for pad bubbles in the the tram part, Vauban/Loki combo can easily protect the tram, the two trins can stand on pads, and a Mirage can still be useful by spamming prisms sent out in different directions to cause overlapping blinds, assuming blind is LoS from the explosion. or, alternately, have the Loki stand on a pad after disarming the room, and have the Mirage run around blinding, allowing her to easily wipe the G3 too, as even a blind setup with a Simulor wrecks the G3 in NM pretty easily.

Edit: @Arkvold.  I could literally spend the next two weeks making sock puppet accounts for the single purpose of upvoting that comment, and it would still be grossly insufficient of my appreciation for, and agreement with, it.

Edited May 27, 2016 by (PS4)Cwellann
Some things need complimented. HARD.

[hybrid_demon]

2 hours ago, DuskLegendary said:

I'm just so frustrated that I don't really know what to say at this point. All I can say is that I sincerely hope that DE drops some of these nerfs they're thinking of, especially the Mirage and Trinity nerf.

People can agree with these nerfs all day long, but I promise you those who do don't go for hour long T3 and T4s nor do they raid, or else they wouldn't be so quick to jump on the nerf band wagon. DE, want to give us some tweaks that will make us happy? How about fixing up some of those lesser used weapons and make them more viable for end game? Scythes need some love. How about fixing up Mesa and Zephyr, making Hydroid scale better so I can more easily farm in higher tier content? We don't need more nerfs to add to the pile.

So you can only go 1 hour in a T4 if you are abusing broken gameplay elements?

[Reifnir]

11 minutes ago, Arkvold said:

*snip*

The fact is, players look for ways to trivialize content because there's content that's very good at trivializing players. In fact, using content-trivializing strategies is the only way to survive player-trivializing content.

*snip*

 

QFT, nuff said. 

Edited May 27, 2016 by Reifnir

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, KJRenz said:

Alright, that's your choice then.

Thanks for clearing things for me tho ,I was about to do wrong.

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

Increase Prism Cast speed to make up for this.

[BlackCoMerc]

15 minutes ago, Arkvold said:

Okay DE.  I'm going to step back from the actual decisions being made here.  I want to talk about the philosophy behind them, and what you, as developers, need to be thinking about when you make these changes.  They smack of kneejerk reactions, without understanding the deeper meanings of why things happen the way they do.  So as someone who's worked in game development myself, I'm going to help you bridge the gap between player's-eye viewpoint and dev's-eye viewpoint.

Now, with any content you make, people are going to look for strategies that beat it.  That's the nature of the game.  It's the nature of every video game - to overcome the challenges the devs have put before you and reap the rewards, then use those rewards to meet and overcome the next set of challenges.  Your goal, as a developer, is to provide a challenge to your playerbase that is difficult enough to require strategy and tactics and preparation, but is also winnable within a margin of error that is humanly achievable.

Warframe's highest-end content has a serious problem with that.  Once enemy levels get into the 60s, 70s, 80s+, survival becomes increasingly binary.  You are either alive and strictly invulnerable, invisible, or sheltered behind tens of thousands of intervening effective health points, or you are dead the moment you are exposed to enemy fire.  First it's the bombards, who deal ridiculous damage over huge AoE.  Then you notice that seekers and eviscerators are one-shotting you too, and soon enough you fear stepping outside that Frost's bubble for even a half second lest you catch a stray Grakata round and spontaneously evaporate into a cloud of gore.

Some people look at that and go 'nope, not playing that, that's not fun.'  In the interest of full disclosure, I'm one of 'em, typically.  I've never been fond of games where one slight mistake will end you.  This is why I don't play sorties, despite the rewards.  I don't know a lot of people, I don't like trying to put together a team for it, and it has such strict requirements on what you can and cannot bring to the table that most of my arsenal is useless in it.

Others, however, look at that and go 'challenge accepted.'  They will look for ways to overcome even this extreme difficulty.  Like Ivara surviving while invisible and using sleep arrow and covert lethality to score kills regardless of armor and HP.  Or Blind Mirage rendering entire spawns comatose across an entire map and then merrily obliterating them one after another.  Or Ash using a combination of invulnerability and finisher damage to kill enemies he could never take in a straight fight.  Or Excalibur utilizing EB's range and blind-spin to get free finishers and stay out of reach of enemies while still benefitting from his sword boost passive.

The fact is, players look for ways to trivialize content because there's content that's very good at trivializing players. In fact, using content-trivializing strategies is the only way to survive player-trivializing content.

When health and armor don't matter, and shields are merely a formality between enemies and your health, your best guns take off mere slivers of enemy health, and all the buffs in the world won't fix either of those situations, that's when players reach for the nuke options - invulnerability, invisibility, scaling damage absorption, finisher damage, finisher openers, and instant-kills.

What's important to remember is that players are right to do this.  You made the content capable of obliterating anyone without these tools; therefore, players are going to use the tools you gave them that work.  And they're going to keep using them, until you either take the tools away (nerfing), or the tools are no longer necessary and there are more efficient and less-drastic means of accomplishing the mission.  If my guns started to deal damage again, and my shields and health could actually survive a bullet or two, I might decide to use them over wtfhax bladestorm/stacked snowglobes/BLIND BLIND BLIND SLEEP SLEEP SLEEP FINISHER FINISHER FINISHER.

So here's what you, as game devs, need to do.  Ask yourselves the question, "What are players SUPPOSED to do to defeat this content?"  And gear your changes towards THAT.  You need to make a hard decision as to what gear and what methods players are allowed to use, and which are exploitative and need to be either nerfed-out or compensated for.  The answer "Players aren't supposed to defeat this content" isn't an acceptable answer; it's a terrible GM that measures success in trashed character sheets, and likewise it's a terrible developer that measures success in Game Overs.

Finally, you need to look at rewards in the light of the effort required to get them.  If defeating a piece of content is supposed to be a difficult task and a momentous event when you and your cell succeeds, then the rewards should be commensurate.  The rewards need to be something immediately good and useful.  If you throw out player-trivializing content, and then say to those who beat it "Congratulations, now run it five hundred times more if you want a reasonable chance to get the actual good rewards from it" then they're going to look at you, scoff, and walk out.

This is how you make good gameplay.

You should make a thread around this. I could not agree more with you. 

Sorties are tedious and unfun. I dont bother with them because there is nothing fair or reasonable about dying to one hit against literally everything on the field unless I bring a cheese frame (or three). No thanks; its ridiculously poor design. 

[Magnulast]

17 minutes ago, Arkvold said:

Okay DE.  I'm going to step back from the actual decisions being made here.  I want to talk about the philosophy behind them, and what you, as developers, need to be thinking about when you make these changes.  They smack of kneejerk reactions, without understanding the deeper meanings of why things happen the way they do.  So as someone who's worked in game development myself, I'm going to help you bridge the gap between player's-eye viewpoint and dev's-eye viewpoint.

Now, with any content you make, people are going to look for strategies that beat it.  That's the nature of the game.  It's the nature of every video game - to overcome the challenges the devs have put before you and reap the rewards, then use those rewards to meet and overcome the next set of challenges.  Your goal, as a developer, is to provide a challenge to your playerbase that is difficult enough to require strategy and tactics and preparation, but is also winnable within a margin of error that is humanly achievable.

Warframe's highest-end content has a serious problem with that.  Once enemy levels get into the 60s, 70s, 80s+, survival becomes increasingly binary.  You are either alive and strictly invulnerable, invisible, or sheltered behind tens of thousands of intervening effective health points, or you are dead the moment you are exposed to enemy fire.  First it's the bombards, who deal ridiculous damage over huge AoE.  Then you notice that seekers and eviscerators are one-shotting you too, and soon enough you fear stepping outside that Frost's bubble for even a half second lest you catch a stray Grakata round and spontaneously evaporate into a cloud of gore.

Some people look at that and go 'nope, not playing that, that's not fun.'  In the interest of full disclosure, I'm one of 'em, typically.  I've never been fond of games where one slight mistake will end you.  This is why I don't play sorties, despite the rewards.  I don't know a lot of people, I don't like trying to put together a team for it, and it has such strict requirements on what you can and cannot bring to the table that most of my arsenal is useless in it.

Others, however, look at that and go 'challenge accepted.'  They will look for ways to overcome even this extreme difficulty.  Like Ivara surviving while invisible and using sleep arrow and covert lethality to score kills regardless of armor and HP.  Or Blind Mirage rendering entire spawns comatose across an entire map and then merrily obliterating them one after another.  Or Ash using a combination of invulnerability and finisher damage to kill enemies he could never take in a straight fight.  Or Excalibur utilizing EB's range and blind-spin to get free finishers and stay out of reach of enemies while still benefitting from his sword boost passive.

The fact is, players look for ways to trivialize content because there's content that's very good at trivializing players.  It is, in fact, using content-trivializing strategies is the only way to survive player-trivializing content.

When health and armor don't matter, and shields are merely a formality between enemies and your health, your best guns take off mere slivers of enemy health, and all the buffs in the world won't fix either of those situations, that's when players reach for the nuke options - invulnerability, invisibility, scaling damage absorption, finisher damage, finisher openers, and instant-kills.

What's important to remember is that players are right to do this.  You made the content capable of obliterating anyone without these tools; therefore, players are going to use the tools you gave them that work.  And they're going to keep using them, until you either take the tools away (nerfing), or the tools are no longer necessary and there are more efficient and less-drastic means of accomplishing the mission.  If my guns started to deal damage again, and my shields and health could actually survive a bullet or two, I might decide to use them over wtfhax bladestorm/stacked snowglobes/BLIND BLIND BLIND SLEEP SLEEP SLEEP FINISHER FINISHER FINISHER.

So here's what you, as game devs, need to do.  Ask yourselves the question, "What are players SUPPOSED to do to defeat this content?"  And gear your changes towards THAT.  You need to make a hard decision as to what gear and what methods players are allowed to use, and which are exploitative and need to be either nerfed-out or compensated for.  The answer "Players aren't supposed to defeat this content" isn't an acceptable answer; it's a terrible GM that measures success in trashed character sheets, and likewise it's a terrible developer that measures success in Game Overs.

Finally, you need to look at rewards in the light of the effort required to get them.  If defeating a piece of content is supposed to be a difficult task and a momentous event when you and your cell succeeds, then the rewards should be commensurate.  The rewards need to be something immediately good and useful.  If you throw out player-trivializing content, and then say to those who beat it "Congratulations, now run it five hundred times more if you want a reasonable chance to get the actual good rewards from it" then they're going to look at you, scoff, and walk out.

This is how you make good gameplay.

To be honest, I agree with you.

But as far as I have read, all I can infer is this.

After you remove the broken content of abilties that the players have, what can the players do to beat those enemies?(saryn...well, excluding lvl 100 enimies..sigh...napalms.)

And, because you gave broken tools, the players have the right to use them, until both issues are fixed at the same time....to make fun gameplay.(I agree on this, except for over-abusing abilties.)-Press 4 to win-all the time, Some players can already avoid using press 4 to win tactics, when I mean "some" I mean, some.

(Seriously though, this just leads to the same problem. again and again.-Fix the horrendous scaling of enemy armor/sheilds/health/damage.)