Lunaro Feedback [Megathread]

[CosmicSolar]

Everyone should have a look at my Thread. I believe I address a lot of issues many player both new and experienced have with Lunaro, but also offer solutions.
 

Link Below

 

 

Edited June 20, 2016 by TheSilverians
Elaborated on post

[DxAdder]

Issues:

The passback bug (FIX please)

Almost impossible to know who is what team.

Melee Stun Stagger

Would kill for a "Pass to me Indicator/hotkey"

I hope your saving all the stats so that at some point there will be a ranking system. PUG's are getting crushed.

 

[TaylorsContraction]

Please better indication of when a player gets the ball. A lot of times (partially due to poor ping) I don't realize that I have the ball or think that I do even I don't.

 

For the love of Lunaro, do not absolutely do not play the "grabbed ball" sound when another player gets the ball. When 4 people jump into the fray and you hear they "picked up ball sound" only to realize you just heard someone else do it. It's very confusing, make it a client side sounds or somehow filter for people who didn't grab it or play a different sound for when a ball is grabbed by an opponent.

 

The game is really fun, reminds me of kombat basketball from snes  :).

[Kaotyke]

54 minutes ago, TaylorsContraction said:

Please better indication of when a player gets the ball. A lot of times (partially due to poor ping) I don't realize that I have the ball or think that I do even I don't.

 

For the love of Lunaro, do not absolutely do not play the "grabbed ball" sound when another player gets the ball. When 4 people jump into the fray and you hear they "picked up ball sound" only to realize you just heard someone else do it. It's very confusing, make it a client side sounds or somehow filter for people who didn't grab it or play a different sound for when a ball is grabbed by an opponent.

 

The game is really fun, reminds me of kombat basketball from snes  :).

There should be a visual cue as well, I know there are some players who are deaf.

I remember a thread that one such player made years ago.

[StickyBaseline]

Stuns and knockdowns has got to go, jesus christ it's so frustrating. If you have EVER played lunaro you have experienced players who spams check like there's no tomorrow, the worst thing is if they target you which in fact a lot of A******s do, they can easily PERMA-STUNLOCK you and there's nothing you can do about it.

It single handily ruins Lunaro, Remove it.

[-Amaterasu-]

Can we get a "pass" counter at the end of a game in addition to what we currently have in the stats screen?

Just a curiosity, may help to see what players are actually focusing on team work rather than solely making shots.

[Negotium]

14 minutes ago, -Amaterasu- said:

Can we get a "pass" counter at the end of a game in addition to what we currently have in the stats screen?

Just a curiosity, may help to see what players are actually focusing on team work rather than solely making shots.

While we're at more stats in the summary I'd vote for intercepts as well, shows how engaged people are.

[-Amaterasu-]

1 minute ago, Negotium said:

While we're at more stats in the summary I'd vote for intercepts as well, shows how engaged people are.

This too, and maby look and what constitutes a "Save" because I've seen players stop many balls that would have gone in only to end up with 1 or 2 on their stats

[Negotium]

Just now, -Amaterasu- said:

This too, and maby look and what constitutes a "Save" because I've seen players stop many balls that would have gone in only to end up with 1 or 2 on their stats

I actually figured out how a save works together with a clanmate over TS:

You have to be outside of the ring in front of the goal, jump in and catch a ball in there on it's way to the goal. If the ball would miss or hit the floor: no save. if you catch it outside: intercept. If you start in the ring and catch it: Intercept. Yeah, that's that.

[-Amaterasu-]

51 minutes ago, Negotium said:

I actually figured out how a save works together with a clanmate over TS:

You have to be outside of the ring in front of the goal, jump in and catch a ball in there on it's way to the goal. If the ball would miss or hit the floor: no save. if you catch it outside: intercept. If you start in the ring and catch it: Intercept. Yeah, that's that.

Thanks for that, still seems a little more conveluted than it needs to be would be better for goal keepers if you can just sit there

[Negotium]

Just now, -Amaterasu- said:

Thanks for that, still seems a little more conveluted than it needs to be would be better for goal keepers if you can just sit there

Sure would be better. i got called out for being a bad goalie since I end most games with 0 saves. Kinda bugs me.
As i said earlier I mostly stay outside of thr ring or I'm in it, but jumping in and catching is a little too much against good opoonents just to get a save.
It works sometimes if I jump back while catching it, still, a little attention on this would be nice as well.
Just standing in front, jumping and getting a save would be underapprecheating what a save is though,
so a middle way would be nice. Like, you are inside and catch the ball, but it only counts as a save if you
walked into the zone just before. Right now as soon as you walk in it's no longer a save, having a slight
delay there could help as well as encouraging keepers to go for a save instead of camping the goal, resulting
in a more open goal.
A middle way. not as easy as without a keeper, but not as har as having one of those annoying jumpers.
 

[-Amaterasu-]

So, a thought on joining in progress but if a player joins a game I think they should not be allowed to participate until a second player joins (And loads in) to balance the opposing team earlier today I was winning by quite a good ammount only to end up losing because in an uneven team players can be easily stun locked while the free player on the enemy team (always sun BTW maby randomize host team too) goes in for easy points.

[Ekksu]

I used to play S4 League often a lot in the past, i like the mechanics, and i think some features of the game could be used for Lunaro in near future:

 

[KronsCZ]

another mod where laggers are best

[FLSH_BNG]

I would suggest after several games that a few tweaks be made, nothing revolutionary, just little changes.

Firstly are the Quality of Life tweaks:

• After a goal is scored, the Lunaro should emerge from an opening in the floor rather than just drop from the sky. I have played too many games and been on both sides where the attacking team tags back out of the zone to get their Arcata back then whips back in to grab the Lunaro and score before the defending team has a chance to regroup. This will give the defending team a little more control in the first few seconds when play resumes without bringing the pace down.
• A few small additional audio and visual queues when the Lunaro is caught will better indicate to the player that they are in possession and keep the pace of the game moving rather than having some players stop halfway through their stride to check if they have it or not.

And now are some game-play suggestions that I think might better facilitate a little more defense in the face of unrelenting aggressive play:

• Double the length of time a player can hold the Lunaro while in their own defensive zone, this gives them a little more time to set up plays while still needing to be careful of the defending team. If a player crosses the center line while having been in possession longer than the standard limit, the Lunaro will explode and the player will drop it.
• Rather than just requiring that attacking players leave the zone after a goal before re-acquiring their Arcata, the defending team should also have possession of the Lunaro as well before they are reactivated.

This last change is one that I would certainly like to see in matches where there is a team or teams of only one player, but would also not be a bad thing in all future games:

• The Lunaro becomes increasingly unstable during possession, but why? I would hypothesize that the Warframe is either interfering or siphoning off a slight amount of energy from it which destabilizes it. This could easily be represented by a sprint speed increase granted to the carrying player: no more than 15% at the most. This would allow the carrying player a little extra when it comes to protecting the Lunaro from the opposing team.

 

All of my proposed changes here are made with the intent to maintain the flow of the game, to better allow for play to shift back and forth from zone to zone without staggering, overwhelming, and one-sided matches. If any of these prove to be counter-productive to this, then they may be discarded without issue.

My single largest problem right now with Lunaro is the lack of dedicated servers. I have lost and won games, but the only ones I enjoyed were the few without latency; I could actually participate in those (even though at best I am only an adequate goal-tender.) It's more fun to win, but winning in spite of lag isn't enjoyable for me because it means I can't contribute... until we have dedicated servers, I'm gonna just have to limit myself to small friend-only matches where I know the latency will not be an issue.

[Lakais]

One additional problem I have noticed: There's a very noticeable delay between getting the ball and being able to throw it, or in most cases needing me to press the throw button twice. In frantic games that are being played a bit too rough, it's almost impossible to hold on to the Lunaro for longer then a second before you get beat into the ground. So it's important to throw the ball as soon as you get it to have any semblance of control over where it's going to go. Unfortunately there is a delay, possibly something to do with key commands because in cases where I have noticed this, I have only been able to throw the Lunaro after I let go of all my mouse keys and try again. 

[The_Snowflake_from_Hell]

The 2 seconds knockdown + stagger resistance was a massive improvement, Lunaro feels a lot more fun now that players have bit more opportunities to get something done with the lunaro in the middle of E spammers crowd. The whole game feels much more beautiful and strategic now. Thank you very much for this change.

[PowerCrafter]

When playing Lunaro, I am unable to throw the ball. When I have the ball in my hand (in practice or a game), left-clicking continues to melee attack instead of throwing the ball.

[Kaotyke]

3 minutes ago, PowerCrafter said:

When playing Lunaro, I am unable to throw the ball. When I have the ball in my hand (in practice or a game), left-clicking continues to melee attack instead of throwing the ball.

The "Throw" is binded to the Melee Channeling key, not the "Fire" button.

[CosmicSolar]

Hey guys,

I'm trying to address and off solutions to problems a lot of players are having issues with when playing (or attempting to) Lunaro.

Just some background on me so readers understand the way I see the game (Lunaro) & where I've attained my experiences.

I've played Basketball, Rugby and Soccer and am familiar with both the rules and concepts behind these games.
I've played Lunaro quite a bit and I average 4 Goals, 1 Interception & 1 Save a game. I usually play as one of the Fielders but have recently been playing Goal Keeper.

I've noticed that since release a lot of players are instantly turned off of Lunaro due to many game related issues (Rules, plays etc.)

 

Problems (P) & Solutions (S)

(P) Possession advantage retained after passing or shooting

At the moment, once released the ball retains previous team priority for 5 seconds(?). Whilst this is good for offensive plays, defensively it makes interception or catching only viable once the ball goes neutral. Meaning that for the first 5 seconds(?), the best option is to check the ball or check the opposing team to prevent them from regaining possession.
It also makes challenging a play, via interception, in mid-air a poor choice since the ball prioritizes the offensive team automatically.
Which currently, can only be countered by checking the opposing player in mid-air, upon their landing or checking the ball in mid-air.

(S) Make it neutral the moment it leaves possession

This allows interceptions to become a more viable option for more situations instead of the just stealing far flung passes. This also lowers to number of situations where a single player can solo run or "self pass" down field to score. As a result team strategy and decision making becomes more applicable.

(P) Check Spamming in "The Zone"

At the moment check spamming is rampant in the game. Contest in "The Zone" turn into a scrap fest that results in a lucky person getting away with the ball. There are no real plays involved, just a group of players body slamming a general area in the hope that a loose ball rolls their way. This makes the game seem more melee combat than sport.

(S) Place a Limit and Cool Down on Checking in "The Zone" with Limit resetting conditions

• The Limit doesn't stop checking but it taxes the player with exhaustion causing them to be slowed for set period of time (10 seconds or so).
• The Cool Down will stop people from using check spamming as their go to all-day-every-day strategy for any form of contest.
• Limit resetting will occur if your team loses possession followed by the opposing team gaining possession.

This will stop the continuous messy scraps that constantly happen when attempting to make a play or defending against one. It will also promote passing, which at the moment is a under used skill since it poses no great benefit in strategy because of the check spamming

(P) Unhindered Movement via Check Spamming in mid-air

As people have become more experienced with the game, they have come to realize the huge issue that is check spamming and how to completely eliminates any chance to advance the ball via passing or running. As a result they have turned using check spamming as a form of movement. DE developers said they didn't want bullet jumping whilst in possession being used as it posed too much of a movement advantage. Whilst the agility from check in mid-air is a positive for the game, the general distance gained causes any other form of movement to become less viable. One is capable of checking 2-3 times before their possession expires, allowing them to lunge their way in a short amount of time from just inside the half court(?) to just outside of the "Goal Area". Currently the only way to counter this is for the defense to check the player in mid-air as any non-checking body will be deflected away. Which leads to further check spamming. Checking in mid-air whilst being in possession is now doing the thing they attempted to prevent.

(S) Remove checking in mid-air whilst in possession
[Alternative] Bullet jumping whilst in possession with a conditions

Bullet jumping still provides players with the agility they seek, but does not give players a near unhindered form of movement. However conditions must be implemented to prevent the problems experienced.

• Cool Down on Bullet Jump whilst in Possession (3 seconds or so)

This prevents unreasonable distance gains from a single possession.

• Disable second jump after Bullet Jump (Double Jump Mechanic) whilst in possession

This also prevents unreasonable distance gains from a single possession. If the second jump cannot be disabled add a penalty effect similar to the one in place for Bullet Jump right now. e.g. Ball is dropped backwards instead of random direction.

(P) Checking - The Ultimate in Momentum Stopping Technology

Currently checking is the key technique in most players repertoire. Not only can it remove a player from play completely, but it can also stop, interrupt or counter almost every play used at the moment. Which is why it's spammed with no remorse. Resulting in newer and experienced players alike being turned off Lunaro.

(S) Dodging - Side Step OP Yo!, Killa Crossover #AnkleBreakers
Cart wheeling sideways should be changed to act as a "Dodge" maneuver to counter checking. It provides offensive players the chance to make plays and defensive players the chance to clear their territory. It enables these without gaining unreasonable distance in the act.

(P) Stagnant Defending

Lunaro is a fast paced game which is meant to create thrill off of high activity and engagement and whilst goal keeping is an obvious part of defense, it shouldn't result in players planting themselves in front of the goal permanently. While it is a 3v3 format, the actually game is generally played in a 2v2 format with each team having 1 person as Goal Keeper with little to no interaction with the ball. The Goal Keeper sits far back in the Goal Area waiting for another interaction.

(S) Introduce a "3 seconds in the key" style rule to the "Goal Area" [Little segment in front of Goal] (10 seconds or so)
Defending teams can still protect their goals with a keeper but instead of being a permanent fixture to the field, the Goal Keeper must decide whether to engage the opposing player or to sink back and attempt to counter the shot at goal. As opposed to the current check spamming or flappy bird up and down jumping routine. This will also promote involving the Goal Keeper as part of an offensive strategy (as seen in Soccer).

 

Improving Features

Add direction control to checking
Similar to how Slash Dash can be directed by simply looking up or down checking needs to be directed so that it's use is more precise. This will also allow players to think and implement more dynamic plays strategies.

Brighten the Lightening - Player: "Is that you Mike?" Mike: "No, it's not"

Whilst I understand that Lunaro is an "ancient tradition" Being colorblind I at times, a lot of times :(,  find it hard to track players and the ball due to the really dark and shadowy lighting. If it's not too much trouble, could you perhaps gives us spots lights in the corners of the court so it's better illuminated without breaking the mood you're trying to create? Or maybe just brightening up the place as a whole...

Environmental Effects/Hazards

At the moment the pillars on the field are merely obstacles or novelty platforms. I would like to see them being involved in gameplay e.g. Wall grabbing while running or gliding will swing you around the pillar (think U-Turn while holding onto the pillar) or If hit with an unstable ball, the energy is transferred neutralizing the ball but making the pillar an unstable hazard.

 

Fixes

Catching the ball in front of goal still results in goals
If a defender catches the ball in front of the goal, it sometimes still results in a goal.

Unable to throw ball after ...... (Can't remember what the action was) [Someone fill me in on this please. I forgot :P]
After ..... the player is unable to throw the ball.

Thanks for reading :)

[Kaotyke]

Lunaro Hotfix 4

Okay, Lunaro is playable now! Thanks a lot!

But there's still 1 more issue:

When a team scores, opponents inside the defensive area lose their Arcatas, HOWEVER there are those who wait just outside and when the time resumes they Bullet Jump in and either steal the Lunaro or Check the person who manage to grab it, making the work of the defending team much harder.

A way to I see to fix this is to make a force field around the defence area of the team that was just scored, no one of the opposite team can get in, but they can get out, make it last 2 seconds, this will be enough time to jump, grab the Lunaro and either throw it away or move out of the defence area.

[Trichouette]

Am I the only one here who wished the "check" move wouldn't exist ?

It makes lunaro way too "I play solo and dash over the map" and "someone got the ball let's dash everywhere in hope to hit him"

I barely see anyone making pass, people are too focussed on "let's dash around"

 

Or at least give it a 2 sec cooldown or something to force teamplay.

3 hours ago, Venom-Snake said:

A way to I see to fix this is to make a force field around the defence area of the team that was just scored, no one of the opposite team can get in, but they can get out, make it last 2 seconds, this will be enough time to jump, grab the Lunaro and either throw it away or move out of the defence area.

This please... Annoyed like crazy by people just waiting outside and stealing the ball from my slow & blind teamates as soon as it gets released.

[Ikusias]

Tried some matches, left in disgust, because:

tutorial is barebones, it's missing an actual practice mode agains training opponents;

checking, catching the ball, even scoring seem purely accidental;

no feedback during "contacts" be it cheking, trying to kick down an opponent or catching the ball, you don't feel you hit anything;

90% looks like the game makes you miss on purpose any contact with your opponents or the ball, might be lag or a collision issue;

conclave gain is abismal unless you are on the winning team;

matches can start at a huge disadvantage, like 2 vs 3 with scores of 0-5 and similar;

started 3-4 matches 2 vs 1, was obviously trounched;

when spawning during a match team affiliation is confusing, especially if all other 5 players are right next to you in a furball around the lunaro;

vertical field of view and movement are bad, making you easily lose track of the action;

limitations on parkour movement are disappointing, movement feels much worse than regular game;

lunaro carrying limitations make this game mode sluggish, in particular the no double jump rule, see following point:

double jumping ban is damaging to movement, most high catches of the lunaro need double jumping, this way you can't catch the ball, nor gain speed;

vertical movement is gimped while the ball itself can ricochet to ridiculous heights;

lack of movement powers, especially for frames based around that is a crime;

warframe flattening to the same specifications is uncalled for as well, might as well let us play with our cripple puppetmasters, oops our operators;

game in general is still missing something else to do than grinding, Lunaro isn't an alternative, only a different way to grind Conclave;

could have tried to be original and avoid copying from southamerican ancient games, at least losing squad doesn't get sacrificed to the sun.

end note: Lunaro = wasted development time, PvP is secondary to warframe, go back to improve the rest of the game instead of dispersing resourches or we'll have another waste like archwing, give us something to do in game besides grinding, not more conclave

[TheCrowBro]

38 minutes ago, Ikusias said:

Tried some matches, left in disgust, because:

tutorial is barebones, it's missing an actual practice mode agains training opponents;

checking, catching the ball, even scoring seem purely accidental;

no feedback during "contacts" be it cheking, trying to kick down an opponent or catching the ball, you don't feel you hit anything;

90% looks like the game makes you miss on purpose any contact with your opponents or the ball, might be lag or a collision issue;

conclave gain is abismal unless you are on the winning team;

matches can start at a huge disadvantage, like 2 vs 3 with scores of 0-5 and similar;

started 3-4 matches 2 vs 1, was obviously trounched;

when spawning during a match team affiliation is confusing, especially if all other 5 players are right next to you in a furball around the lunaro;

vertical field of view and movement are bad, making you easily lose track of the action;

limitations on parkour movement are disappointing, movement feels much worse than regular game;

lunaro carrying limitations make this game mode sluggish, in particular the no double jump rule, see following point:

double jumping ban is damaging to movement, most high catches of the lunaro need double jumping, this way you can't catch the ball, nor gain speed;

vertical movement is gimped while the ball itself can ricochet to ridiculous heights;

lack of movement powers, especially for frames based around that is a crime;

warframe flattening to the same specifications is uncalled for as well, might as well let us play with our cripple puppetmasters, oops our operators;

game in general is still missing something else to do than grinding, Lunaro isn't an alternative, only a different way to grind Conclave;

could have tried to be original and avoid copying from southamerican ancient games, at least losing squad doesn't get sacrificed to the sun.

end note: Lunaro = wasted development time, PvP is secondary to warframe, go back to improve the rest of the game instead of dispersing resourches or we'll have another waste like archwing, give us something to do in game besides grinding, not more conclave

Sure it's not that good in it's current state but why completely ignore PvP forever and only focus on PvE, wouldn't it be better for everyone to have fantastic PvE (which it currently has) and a very good PvP mode. Simply throwing it away forever makes no sense.

Plus this is a feedback thread not a thread to trash on the developers for trying something different but hey it's your opinion, freedom of speech and all that.

[Ikusias]

I'm speaking mainly from a resource management point of view: warframe has a lot of problems, many of which crawl back from the early beta, DE staff is really small for a game of this size, the time they take to address any problem in game except cash vanities is biblical.

So if they are already spread thin, why worsen the situation opening another front with its problems, maintenance etc?

Warframe Pve at its base lacks content, adding more Pvp while there's Archwing to salvage, a lot of complaints on the latest reworks to address, a pile of older problems still to takle, the entire damn game STILL in Beta, customer service taking ages to answer... well maybe as a manager i'm baffled why DE can't focus its staff on solving ongoing problems instead of allocating resources on VERY secondary content, considering that what is most missed from Pvp were the dark sector conflicts, that had at least a meaningful impact in game.

Conclave and Lunaro have no impact on the storyline, require separate balancing that when bleeding trough negatively affects Pve and in general split resources that seem already stretched out.

What I'd prefer is that DE focus first on solving Pve problem to have a workable game and a satisfied playerbase, then branch out with extra optional content.

Want to know what was the main reason many friends of mine started playing? no Pvp and its toxicity.

Want to know why they all left? De inability to solve problems and balance the game in general because they try to do too many things at the same time.

Due to this my impression of Lunaro was: ok they failed badly at reworking most of my favourite frames and then I get this not so good mess? Damn.

I strongly dislike PvP, I was already annoyed due to the negative changes done to the game at large, i can't help it then if i consider all the resources used for Lunaro better used on the development of the parts of the game i find meaningful, especially considering how underwhelming my experience with Lunaro has been until now.

I'm not trashing anyone, I'm espressing my feedback on what was done and it's a fairly negative feedback.

I don't dislike the idea of Lunaro per se, but i find the implementation lackluster and the timing inopportune, it gets composed with more negative feedback due to poor handling of other parts of the game that needed more attention, the lack of communication from DE about said feedback and all the other gripes that keep accumulating.

( And the disappointment about the promises about 2015 "year of quality" as DE failed to deliver jet again)

Edited June 21, 2016 by Ikusias