Futurehero Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 So, what if DE decided to release Sentient guns that deal 5k damage per hit and are full auto, and can only be bought for 300 platinum ? Would that really be a problem ? -This game is Co-op. You're not going against someone who is paying for better gear, in fact, them being in your party is only a benefit. -You can trade a lot of things for platinum, so at the end of the day, platinum just becomes another thing you can grind for. -In fact, a lot of veterans are probably sitting on buckets of the stuff, earned JUST by trading. -This would finally put an end to the enemy scaling problem . -Whoever thinks those weapons are too much, can simply not use them. This same thing is said about things like the Tonkor, or Ember. So why would this be different. -Since not everyone can afford a 300 platinum gun, you probably won't see everyone in Pub plays with this . -People finally have an option to easily finish raids. -"Trivializing content" is not a thing . People have been trivializing content for years and it's still being played just as well. -Players would still have incentives to make other guns ,the same way people are still crafting things like the twin Basolk when Broken War is given to you for free. Honestly, except the knee-jerk reaction that people have to the term "pay to win", is there any argument as to why this couldn't be a thing? It would certainly make DE a lot of money, and players can still technically get this weapon for free through trading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleak-Knight Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 (edited) It takes a hell lot of trading to make 300 plat for a gun. And this is for a gun that does only 5k damage? My Tigris does 3 times more damage. Edited June 19, 2016 by Bleak-Knight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll_Logic Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 I agree with you 100% however.... The optics would be terrible and there would be many players who see a 300 plat gun that others have and they don't. They don't want to earn the plat in the game and they will try to shame every player who has that 300 plat gun. It would be bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StallordD Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 If your solution to poor enemy scaling is to lock it behind real world currency, it's a good thing you aren't the one designing the game. Warframe has always been fair in the sense that everything can be obtained with in-game effort aside form cosmetics. While you may argue that a lot of players have earned the premium currency in-game, I guarantee you there are plenty that haven't and many others who would instantly be turned off when faced with such a gate. Trading for real world currency is not an excuse for gating, it's a solution to avoid it. Adding P2W tendencies is a sure fire way to send the game's relatively benign business model into a downward spiral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)MK Ultra K11 Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 *opens wallet that has a jellybean, a paperclip, a fly and a penny* Uhh....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futurehero Posted June 19, 2016 Author Share Posted June 19, 2016 1 minute ago, StallordD said: If your solution to poor enemy scaling is to lock it behind real world currency, it's a good thing you aren't the one designing the game. Warframe has always been fair in the sense that everything can be obtained with in-game effort aside form cosmetics. While you may argue that a lot of players have earned the premium currency in-game, I guarantee you there are plenty that haven't and many others who would instantly be turned off when faced with such a gate. Trading for real world currency is not an excuse for gating, it's a solution to avoid it. Adding P2W tendencies is a sure fire way to send the game's relatively benign business model into a downward spiral. Not really, it's very much in line with the general idea. The only people who against the ridiculous scaling are the veterans with tons of hours. They most likely have a ton of plat earned through Void grinding, and so, they could get the weapon easily. If you go against ridiculous numbers, you have two ways. The regular way, where you take the best weapon ,grind out the forma, grind out the mods etc, or the easy way, you buy this gun that solves that instantly. It's very much pay to not grind. Newbies don't need a gun that deals 1 million damage ,after all . Think of it as the "jump to level 60 so you can start raids" boost that Wow has. Is that P2W? Again, you're just calling on the knee jerk reaction to the term P2W, but why , in this specfic game's case (remember, NOT a PVP game, no competition), would that be a bad thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldnacpeek Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 3 hours ago, Futurehero said: -This would finally put an end to the enemy scaling problem No it wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceColdHawk Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 "Why shouldn't this game be pay to win?" Was this a serious question? I can't tell. But i dearly hope it's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleak-Knight Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Futurehero said: Not really, it's very much in line with the general idea. The only people who against the ridiculous scaling are the veterans with tons of hours. They most likely have a ton of plat earned through Void grinding, and so, they could get the weapon easily. If you go against ridiculous numbers, you have two ways. The regular way, where you take the best weapon ,grind out the forma, grind out the mods etc, or the easy way, you buy this gun that solves that instantly. It's very much pay to not grind. Newbies don't need a gun that deals 1 million damage ,after all . Think of it as the "jump to level 60 so you can start raids" boost that Wow has. Is that P2W? Again, you're just calling on the knee jerk reaction to the term P2W, but why , in this specfic game's case (remember, NOT a PVP game, no competition), would that be a bad thing? Why the hell would we want a gun that can basically make squads invincible? Edited June 19, 2016 by Bleak-Knight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoopManZ Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 1 minute ago, Futurehero said: Not really, it's very much in line with the general idea. The only people who against the ridiculous scaling are the veterans with tons of hours. They most likely have a ton of plat earned through Void grinding, and so, they could get the weapon easily. If you go against ridiculous numbers, you have two ways. The regular way, where you take the best weapon ,grind out the forma, grind out the mods etc, or the easy way, you buy this gun that solves that instantly. It's very much pay to not grind. Newbies don't need a gun that deals 1 million damage ,after all . Think of it as the "jump to level 60 so you can start raids" boost that Wow has. Is that P2W? Again, you're just calling on the knee jerk reaction to the term P2W, but why , in this specfic game's case (remember, NOT a PVP game, no competition), would that be a bad thing? This game is awfully punishing as it is to new players with the amount of learning and RNG to over come to get viable setups once you reach the later stages of the starchart. It would be awful to outright add a plat only weapon so people can freak out over P2W. Sorry but this is an awful idea and does nothing to help the problems. Youd essentially would just be buying a formad Rakta Cernos or Synoid Simulor, which you can get for dirt cheap anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futurehero Posted June 19, 2016 Author Share Posted June 19, 2016 1 minute ago, Bleak-Knight said: Why the hell would we want a gun that does a million damage? That is too OP and nothing would be a challenge anymore. 17 minutes ago, Futurehero said: So, what if DE decided to release Sentient guns that deal 5k damage per hit and are full auto, and can only be bought for 300 platinum ? Would that really be a problem ? -This game is Co-op. You're not going against someone who is paying for better gear, in fact, them being in your party is only a benefit. -You can trade a lot of things for platinum, so at the end of the day, platinum just becomes another thing you can grind for. -In fact, a lot of veterans are probably sitting on buckets of the stuff, earned JUST by trading. -This would finally put an end to the enemy scaling problem . -Whoever thinks those weapons are too much, can simply not use them. This same thing is said about things like the Tonkor, or Ember. So why would this be different. -Since not everyone can afford a 300 platinum gun, you probably won't see everyone in Pub plays with this . -People finally have an option to easily finish raids. -"Trivializing content" is not a thing . People have been trivializing content for years and it's still being played just as well. -Players would still have incentives to make other guns ,the same way people are still crafting things like the twin Basolk when Broken War is given to you for free. Honestly, except the knee-jerk reaction that people have to the term "pay to win", is there any argument as to why this couldn't be a thing? It would certainly make DE a lot of money, and players can still technically get this weapon for free through trading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltage Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 even though I have plenty of plats, I think there should always be a BP for non event / baro items. As mastery rank is becoming something meaningful (mod capacity), making mastery locked behind a platinum wall would uninterest me and cause me to quit or stop progressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giantconch Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 Why shouldnt DE change warframe and allow weapons that are only purchaseable through the market with plat? Because the current model works great, and DE recieves praise for having a business model like the one in place, which allows users to pay-to-skip wait times and grinding, but also allows those without the funds to do so the ability to obtain all of the same gear without skipping a meal a day for two weeks to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoopManZ Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 Just now, Futurehero said: The problem is your weapon is already outclassed by weapons that go for 30plat in the market. If you say only veterans may be able to get it, then sure enough theres already really cheap options to those who have all the event mods. You only need 3 forma on the Rakta Cernos lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kai_Shiba Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 (edited) Ha, I would've quit Warframe if such a thing existed. Yea, I won't use them, but I'll have to sit back and do nothing while the person who has the gun carry everyone and make the gameplay boring. There's your logic Edited June 19, 2016 by KJRenz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiiat Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 and in the same lens - why should it? if you can't provide any logical reasoning for or against, it clearly isn't something that should happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genitive Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 9 minutes ago, Futurehero said: So, what if DE decided to release Sentient guns that deal 5k damage per hit and are full auto, and can only be bought for 300 platinum ? Would that really be a problem ? -This game is Co-op. You're not going against someone who is paying for better gear, in fact, them being in your party is only a benefit. Yeah, to a point when they do all the stuff for you and you're left with standing around, like with the old Peacemaker. -You can trade a lot of things for platinum, so at the end of the day, platinum just becomes another thing you can grind for. More grind. That's what we need. -In fact, a lot of veterans are probably sitting on buckets of the stuff, earned JUST by trading. What about non-veterans? For them putting a weapon behind a paywall will be discouraging. -This would finally put an end to the enemy scaling problem. How? Because it deals lots of damage? Scaling will still be a problem. -Whoever thinks those weapons are too much, can simply not use them. This same thing is said about things like the Tonkor, or Ember. So why would this be different. -Since not everyone can afford a 300 platinum gun, you probably won't see everyone in Pub plays with this. -People finally have an option to easily finish raids. Are raids supposed to be easy anyway? It's the problem with scaling. -"Trivializing content" is not a thing . People have been trivializing content for years and it's still being played just as well. It is a thing. That's why we got recent Mirage and Trinity nerfs. -Players would still have incentives to make other guns ,the same way people are still crafting things like the twin Basolk when Broken War is given to you for free. They craft it mostly for mastery, the meta remains more or less the same. Honestly, except the knee-jerk reaction that people have to the term "pay to win", is there any argument as to why this couldn't be a thing? It would certainly make DE a lot of money, and players can still technically get this weapon for free through trading. Even if you can gtrade for plat, someone else has to pay for it, so it's not like it's completely free. So yeah, I don't agree with you. After @StallordD, putting things behind a paywall is avoiding the things that are wrong with the game. Also, the moment a plat-only weapon is released a lot of people will quit, simply because pay-2-win tactics are frowned upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeMonkey Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 7 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said: "Why shouldn't this game be pay to win?" Was this a serious question? I can't tell. But i dearly hope it's not. Given the stuff going on the world right now, I'm not surprised by more stupidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheePrime Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 (edited) TLDR Solution to scaling - make the game p2w with OP weapons, it's not like it's a PVP game so there is no down side. I can not face desk enough after reading this. Edited June 19, 2016 by maj.death Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futurehero Posted June 19, 2016 Author Share Posted June 19, 2016 6 minutes ago, PoopManZ said: This game is awfully punishing as it is to new players with the amount of learning and RNG to over come to get viable setups once you reach the later stages of the starchart. It would be awful to outright add a plat only weapon so people can freak out over P2W. Sorry but this is an awful idea and does nothing to help the problems. Youd essentially would just be buying a formad Rakta Cernos or Synoid Simulor, which you can get for dirt cheap anyway. So again, there's no real problem here except "BUUUT P2W MAAAAAN...." P2W is a problem in competitive games, where getting beaten by someone on the fact that he has a richer wallet than you is a problem. This is a co-op game. Some guy with cash only weapon can only help you, that's how the game is designed. What's the problem ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltage Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 (edited) 3 minutes ago, taiiat said: and in the same lens - why should it? if you can't provide any logical reasoning for or against, it clearly isn't something that should happen. Lawyered Edited June 19, 2016 by -CM-Voltage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiiat Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 1 minute ago, Futurehero said: What's the problem ? there isn't one - if you can logically explain why it isn't a problem. i'm waiting. with a 55 gallon drum of popcorn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiusa Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 Because then we don't get a good game, we just get a bunch of things to buy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kai_Shiba Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 Just now, Futurehero said: So again, there's no real problem here except "BUUUT P2W MAAAAAN...." P2W is a problem in competitive games, where getting beaten by someone on the fact that he has a richer wallet than you is a problem. This is a co-op game. Some guy with cash only weapon can only help you, that's how the game is designed. What's the problem ? That guy can make the game boring. Let me just sit back and do nothing while this person one shots everything because screw balance. Sounds like fun, let's just remove the gameplay in the game. Which was the case with Mesa before her changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoopManZ Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Futurehero said: So again, there's no real problem here except "BUUUT P2W MAAAAAN...." P2W is a problem in competitive games, where getting beaten by someone on the fact that he has a richer wallet than you is a problem. This is a co-op game. Some guy with cash only weapon can only help you, that's how the game is designed. What's the problem ? I dont know its probably disheartening to see a rando squadmate completely trivializing your own setup with his gun just cause he threw down money, much similar to how people hate Bladestorm Ash cause it just sucks the fun out of the mission. It doesnt matter if its a PvE game. Why would we turn Warframe into a mobile game. Also theres already weapons that can do this that are dirt cheap in trading (also you can easily build the tonkor so..) this whole idea is useless. Edited June 19, 2016 by PoopManZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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