Kavats Feedback [Megathread]

[Walkampf]

5 hours ago, polarity said:

New content would be better if it wasn't making old content obsolete, because you're not really adding anything to the game when it's effectively removing the option to use something else.  The same result could have been achieved by reworking what already existed. (...)

This is a great way of putting it in words. And that's exacly my point!

I find it very sad, that there is so often powercreep in Warframes development.

It happened as well during the last big update, 'The second dream' where 'Broken War' became a straight upgrade to 'Dakra Prime', with literally no drawbacks.

And now it happened again with the Kavats being superior to Kubrows and Sentinels.

Especially in case of Kubrows this could be solved very easily by making all mods, except for the breed-exclusive skills usable by Kubrows and well as Kavats.

This way Kubrows whould be very closely matched to Kavats and only Sentinels whould need a buff.

I think the different skills of animal companion breeds whould still make for a good choice to make.

[MJ12]

Hey, is the Kavat Starter Kit like... missing 10 genetic codes or something? It doesn't actually enough genetic codes to start a Kavat from scratch, since you need 10 to make the incubator segment and 10 more to breed a spacecat.

[OniDax]

All the feedback I got about Kavats is this:

1) Please make the process of acquiring DNA less grindy. Please.

2) The kavats are kinda small, making them kinda hard to see in motion (whereas the kubrows are bigger, therefore you can appreciate them and the way you color them). Could the kavats be a little bigger?

3) Kavats are decent, but there are so few customization options compared to the kubrows. How soon can we see some more customization accessories (including armor and fur patterns)?

4) The Kavats are cool, but they pale in comparison to the Feral Kavats, which just look AMAZING. Really wish I could make my kavat look as awesome as the feral kavat.

[MarkTheRabidCat]

Please tell me the 6.5% (actually 6.4999998% because it's stored as a double I'm guessing.) drop rate for the genetic scans is some kind of sick vile twisted joke. It's hard enough to scan ONE of those bastards!!

I generally manage 1 to 2 scans of them in a mission, my friend is lucky if she get's 1.

To have to on average scan 15.4 Kavats to get ONE IMPRINT, and then 153.8!!! SCANS to get the required 10!!! OH and double that because the SEGMENT takes 10 TOO.

that's  307.7 scans!!! to get your first Kavat... for ME that'll be 200 MISSIONS YOU HAVE GOT TO BE @#$&%^& KIDDING

And even if I'm going off the 3-4 scans that everyone else is reporting from ODE's that's still 75-100 &^#@%$% MISSIONS...

NO, NO NONONONONONO NO!!

Edited July 11, 2016 by MarkTheRabidCat
Math correction.

[Maugre]

Good news. The drop rate is now doubled!

 

...Now you only need to do 100 missions for 10 DNA instead of 200.

[MarkTheRabidCat]

1 minute ago, Maugre said:

Good news. The drop rate is now doubled!

 

...Now you only need to do 100 missions for 10 DNA instead of 200.

Okay... that's a little better, though I was hoping for it to be quadrupled atleast....

[Cat__Nap]

I hope the drop rate increase is massive, because as it is, the drop rate's just too freaking crazy. I'm not sure why you guys released it at such a low rate...there's grind, and then there's...kavats. This can't have been tested before you launched the update, and kudos to anyone who actually has had the patience to grind one (or more?) of these things since the update; I know I don't.

 

Kavats were the one thing me and a friend were so hyped about for this update, and neither of us have bothered so far. I hope farming them becomes actually viable; I'm not doing another Ivara grind for a single pet.

Edited July 11, 2016 by Catoriii

[radastir]

40 minutes ago, MJ12 said:

Hey, is the Kavat Starter Kit like... missing 10 genetic codes or something? It doesn't actually enough genetic codes to start a Kavat from scratch, since you need 10 to make the incubator segment and 10 more to breed a spacecat.

You'll have to buy the incubator upgrade extra if you want to skip the grind - not quite a fair deal.

 

Edited July 11, 2016 by radastir

[-Ironheade-]

3 minutes ago, Maugre said:

Good news. The drop rate is now doubled!

 

...Now you only need to do 100 missions for 10 DNA instead of 200.

With a 13% Chance you´ll need about 100 Scans to get 10 DNA. With 4-6 Kavats per Mission that makes about 25 runs. So not that bad ;)

[Maugre]

Just now, -Ironheade- said:

With a 13% Chance you´ll need about 100 Scans to get 10 DNA. With 4-6 Kavats per Mission that makes about 25 runs. So not that bad ;)

Unfortunately, RNG doesn't tend to work like that. 50% means more like 20%, for an example.

[MarkTheRabidCat]

16 hours ago, Buttaface said:

Kavats seem really cool so far. They look great, move great and dye great. The abilities are powerful and different than kubrows without totally displacing them because kubrows do far more combat damage as far as I can tell.

Unlike many here, I see no problem at all with the dna droprates from scans. You need max 20 codes to have an incubator upgrade and kavat. Even at bad drop rates, that's no more than 4-5 play sessions, hardly "grindy" by prevailing standards in this game or many other hybrids. If you get tired of it, pay the measly five plat each to make up the rest and support the game. I see people regularly paying 35P for noggles and 100p for cosmetics. 50P for a permanent combat pet just isn't that big a deal.

Uhh I did the math and at the 6.4999998% droprate that it was before, it would take 75-100 ODE missions to get the required 20 genetic prints.

Guess what, a lot of people don't pay platinum for anything except SLOTS. The only thing I've ever spent plat on other than weapon and warframe slots, was the valkyr gersemi skin.

[BlackCoMerc]

7 hours ago, polarity said:

New content would be better if it wasn't making old content obsolete, because you're not really adding anything to the game when it's effectively removing the option to use something else.  The same result could have been achieved by reworking what already existed.  You can look at FireFall for the best example of how that approach failed.

Meanwhile you have EVE online, where new ship types are regularly added to the game.  Over time it became clear that the newer ones all had better stats than the older ones, and the 'equipment as content' had developed tiers and vertical progression, that could be skipped over by going straight to the more advanced ships (which were often literally in higher named tiers), and ignoring the older content.

Obsoleted content is wasted developer time, because the game is not being improved in scope, and the number of available options, it's just changing what's there that's worth doing.

In EVE this was realised, and CCP decided to devote a good amount of developer time to what was referred to as 'tiericide': A complete and comprehensive balance pass on all of the ships in the game, the purpose being to reverse obsolescence, by adapting the roles of the ships, and by making the higher tiers more specialised, or customisable, instead of just more powerful.

Players loved it, because it gave them endless new combinations to work with, in developing new tactics.  It made what they already had into more usable content, instead of just switching from old to new.

Now every time a new ship is added, it can expect to be rebalanced soon after its release, rather than after months of players complaining it is over or under powered, and will continue to be looked at, as the game's meta changes with other changes and additions.

 

I think Warframe has got to a similar point where its 'equipment as content' has started to become more and more stratified into different tiers of usefulness, through varying power, and a similar tiericide is needed.

I'm not talking about complete balance, but rather an acknowledgement that the outliers need to be dealt with promptly, regulary, and initially comprehensively, rather than in a piecemeal fashion that leaves too much imbalance for too long.

Very well said. It's actually begun to make me feel as if I waste my time playing. 

My Kubrow? Obsolete.

My Volt? Rhino? No? Frost?

I have Prime versions now. Those early frames?waste of time in retrospect. 

Which leaves me looking mostly for a game to replace Warframe as opposed to wanting to play it, or support it.

[CorrinAvatan]

56 minutes ago, MJ12 said:

Hey, is the Kavat Starter Kit like... missing 10 genetic codes or something? It doesn't actually enough genetic codes to start a Kavat from scratch, since you need 10 to make the incubator segment and 10 more to breed a spacecat.

It tells you that you need the Incubator constructed to start.  So, it's assuming you already got the first ten.

[polarity]

Now we just need a recipe that lets us make 10 ODE keys at once, because we're still going to need a lot, and it's going to take ages loading each one into the foundry.

[MarkTheRabidCat]

18 minutes ago, -Ironheade- said:

With a 13% Chance you´ll need about 100 Scans to get 10 DNA. With 4-6 Kavats per Mission that makes about 25 runs. So not that bad ;)

Actually, Math

7.7 scans per DNA, 76.9 scans to make 1 Kavat, 153.8 scans for your first Kavat with incubator upgrade.

that's still 30 missions for your first Kavat if you can actually average 5 scans per mission.

It's still pretty horrible in my opinion, it's no longer outrageously rage inducing, but I still know people who still might give up and drop warframe if they can't get the plat together.

Now we just need a recipe that lets us make 10 ODE keys at once, because we're still going to need a lot, and it's going to take ages loading each one into the foundry.

I second this notion.

Edited July 11, 2016 by MarkTheRabidCat

[Epicagemo]

My repost from hotfix:

From the last i checked, some guy had scanned exactly 336, (but I'm assuming he scanned some before for codex completion, so I'll round to 320) for 14 signatures-if counting simaris widget, the calculated drop rate would be around 4 %. However, If we do not count the simaris doubles, it would be around 2.5%... doubling the drop rate makes this is around 5 %, coupled with the kavat spawn rate, i don't think it's very good in general. I heard that the mod drop rate and the genetic codes had the drop rates reversed... with genetic drop rates at a rate of ~3% (the mod drop rate for most mobs), and the mod drop rate at 40%.

5% with 4-10 kavats per ODE, it's still going to take way to long to make a kavat.

In addition, the mission to obtain them has some mobs with ignis that shoot through walls... Though I can't argue much here because it goes both ways...

[-Ironheade-]

13 minutes ago, MarkTheRabidCat said:

Actually, Math

7.7 scans per DNA, 76.9 scans to make 1 Kavat, 153.8 scans for your first Kavat with incubator upgrade.

that's still 30 missions for your first Kavat if you can actually average 5 scans per mission.

It's still pretty horrible in my opinion, it's no longer outrageously rage inducing, but I still know people who still might give up and drop warframe if they can't get the plat together.

I said about 25 runs. I didn´t type the values into my calculator, so it´s just a rough approximation. ;)

[radastir]

Did me now 4 runs to get 10 dna.

 

[MarkTheRabidCat]

12 minutes ago, -Ironheade- said:

I said about 25 runs. I didn´t type the values into my calculator, so it´s just a rough approximation. ;)

I know. And in all honesty 25-30 runs...depending on luck and maybe saying screw it buying the last 2 or 3. FOR ME that's "Give me a couple redbulls and a bottle of vodka and I'll do it" Though I'm pretty average when it comes to willingness to grind, so about half the active player base that REALLY want Kavats are still gonna say screw it, and drop the game for a while if they can't scrouge up 50-100 plat.

2 minutes ago, radastir said:

Did me now 4 runs to get 10 dna.

You Lucky BUGGER.

Edited July 11, 2016 by MarkTheRabidCat

[-Ironheade-]

2 minutes ago, MarkTheRabidCat said:

I know. And in all honesty 25-30 runs...depending on luck and maybe saying screw it buying the last 2 or 3. FOR ME that's "Give me a couple redbulls and a bottle of vodka and I'll do it" Though I'm pretty average when it comes to willingness to grind, so about half the active player base that REALLY want Kavats are still gonna say screw it, and drop the game for a while if they can't scrouge up 50-100 plat.

Agreed, it´s still not easy to get one, but you can manage to get the DNAs you need in a couple of days if you split the grind up a little. And imo you shouldn´t be able to farm all you need to get a Kavat in 20mins.

I´ll see how the current drop rate performs for me, but i think it will be a lot less frustrating now that you don´t have to run 50+ missions to get those DNA samples. In comparison, 25-30 seems like a reasonable amount.

[Taonakku]

Ummm... I think I found a glitch...

[DaisyHead]

Just now, Taonakku said:

Ummm... I think I found a glitch...

Must be the rare dullahan kavat

[Maugre]

1 minute ago, DaisyHead said:

Must be the rare dullahan kavat

B> Dullahan Kavat imprint

[OsorioCesar]

Made a few runs and got 8 DNA, ty DE <3

[Twistedsparkle]

Im still not getting any kitty dna (after hotfx)
this is my 6th mission in a row

this is ridiculous
am I doing something wrong? Im using the basic codex scanner
does it matter if you kill the ferals afterwards?