Archwing Movement Overhaul Feedback [Megathread]

[motorfirebox]

I like the concept, but it's way, way, way too floaty right now. And as others have said, please move the camera back.

How about this: the same way we've got the Jump button for a sprint booster, make the Back button an e-brake when you're in sprint mode. With e-brake on, you slow down much more quickly, and your turning becomes pinpoint (no float reticle, mouselook = new direction).

Edited July 9, 2016 by motorfirebox

[MegatronG1]

This is not really a movement feedback, but please increase the affinity range for archwing, because you're not even able to get most of the exp from archwing interception without trying to fly your way to a teammate leaving your node empty.

[Xriborg]

I hate to be that guy, but I can't say that I like a single aspect that has been changed. The 6dof adds nothing and only serves to make the minimap more worthless. The slow autoroll is also disorienting and obnoxious. The camera is so zoomed in that my character takes up half the screen.

And for being in open space, there sure is a hell of a lot of air friction going on. 

 

I'd love to say just roll it back, but I know DE isn't the type to abandon overhauls like this. Oh well. I'll be hanging up my archwing until this whole mess is cleaned up. It's going to take a lot of work to turn this into something enjoyable.

[Zeranov]

I must say I could really dig the new movement, but it's a shame that they forgot a few things to make it great:

• When the world rolls we need two keys to roll left und right! It's super important that we can roll by ourselves in this new system.
• Auto-Correct-Roll is cancer! Sharp turns and upside down structures don't make me dizzy, but this forced auto-correct feature is making me sick. It even tries to correct in mid-flight. Give us an additional key to normalize our orientation instead. NO AUTO-CORRECT!
• Pls fix the broken zoom. The camera is way too close now!
• Why is the camera doing such a weird switch in positions when boosting instead of simply going further away?
• The drag in curves should be increasing relative to the speed. Right now it feels the same regardless of speed, when it should be much lower while going slow. This results in really sluggish movement even at lowest speed.
• Finally... I can shoot out of my butt while boosting and pointing backwards? Thats a pretty nifthy technique, Tenno.

[Kaotyke]

The movement is good in open spaces... in Trech Runs? No. Not isnt. Not even close.

The camera is way too close to the player now.

Clipping into the Elytron.

The movement feels... floaty? Maybe it will be better if the FOV gets further out.

Also... this

24 minutes ago, Zeranov said:

Finally... I can shoot out of my butt while boosting and pointing backwards? Thats a pretty nifthy technique, Tenno.

Along to what Zeranov says, I look like a flying brick. I'm shooting what is behind me while my gun points forward. The model is static, there is no change whatsoever when you are sprinting and moving to the sides, there's no animation. Before the update, while we didnt have such freedom of movement, we could see our charcater reacting to the moves they did. Here we have nothing.

While being able to shot while going top speed is good, the lack of animation makes me cringe. Maybe if the model acted different when you started to shot, if you shot to your side, give the model of the player when he is not sprinting and ADS, but looking at where he is shooting at.

A Mix of this

And this

[Bouldershoulder]

1. Lateral and vertical motion need much less inertia and much more speed. Considering how fast archwing can fly forward and that it is basically 2 engines strapped to back, it should be much more maneuverable and able to reverse the direction of its engines to decelerate.

2. Sprint boost has become hard to use in tight places because each wall hit and corpus slowing mine disables sprinting, and due to delays before starting to sprint and a subsequent delay before starting to boost, I more often find myself flying up rather than sprinting fast.

 

Btw, I disagree with everyone who says this was time wasted. Old flight system was what kept me away from archwing the most, and now it feels closer to the actual flight, though it still needs a lot of work. AW could have rolls bound to QE like in X game series, but it would take away my use of 'last used ability' from Q, so idk. For the sake of having rolls I would bind it to C :D. Aaand I have not the slightest idea how people play shooter-fighter-flight mixes on controllers.. I wouldn't..

In general, I appreciate the rework. What I hate is corpus debris. Such maps have no place in super fast space flight gameplay, especially not in rush.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Bouldershoulder
added some more feedback

[R34LM]

I personally dislike all of the changes. The rolling is only there to simulate flight, but it works horribly in the map universe that Warframe has. It is only there for immersion, and it actually breaks the gameplay rather than enhancing the experience. Trench runs are terrible because of this.

The camera is shoddy at best. Too close to my back and meleeing seems less fluid because I can't see anything around me.

 

Frankly, you guys could have put more use into your time by fixing the actual problem with Archwing: the lack of content and reward. It was lacking a REASON, not a MECHANIC. The old movement was perfectly fine; if it isn't broken, don't fix it. I didn't play Archwing because progression was slow and the rewards were hardly worth while. Again, you could have made more good use out of your time simply by adding Archwing mission content (like you have in this update) as well as the reworks for certain things (ie the Bladestorm rework that everyone is waiting to get over with and the Limbo rework that is really needed).

[Morgo]

The archwing binding list is linked to normal bindings for me. If I change any control on one list, it changes in the other....What's the point then?

Also no roll control and too much zoom and inertia.

Before archwing movement felt more fluid and nimble. Now it feels clumsy.

[Wuvkitty]

New system sounded cool when I read about it...but actually playing with it is awful.  First time feeling nausea in a game in a long, long time, and after the 2nd mission I actually had to stop playing it was so bad.  I used to like AW, and now I can't play it anymore.

Also yeah, the minimap is now even more useless than it was before, and I really wish I could increase the FOV.

Please just revert it or make the movement system toggle-able.  Please =(

Edited July 9, 2016 by Wuvkitty

[sleepyryan]

Honestly I would like the option to be able to switch between the new and old movement system since I think the old one was more polished and much easier and enjoyable to play with. 

[John89brensen]

The idea of moving the camera in any direction is quite interesting, Dead Space has a similar system for when you are floating in outer space, and it kinda reminds me of Ace Combat. 

That being said, the movement is extremely frustrating, thank both to the camera and the poor controls, that have somewhat gotten much worse than before. Now when moving at high speeds its easier to collide with the enviroment, because maneuvering at high speeds its almost impossible. This is not a problem in large areas like the asteroid field, but on the corpus trench run you will bump into the enviroment constantly. This problem becomes worse when you use the afterburner (shift+space), maneuvering in close quarters, before the update was difficult, but possible (and quite awesome), now its a lot harder, if not impossible. If you move at normal speed (without holding the sprint button) its easier to control maneuvers, but then the problem becomes the camera, since 1/4 of the screen is occupied by the Warframe/Archwing, which is incredibly frustrating and distracting from the action, you completely lose sight of your sorroundings, this is a problem regardless of the enviroment, but i personally found it much more uncomfortable in asteroid field missions, since i coulndt see clearly what was on the large portion of the map to my left. This is all whitout mentioning that there is a clear loss of speed in archwing in general, compared to before i cannot really tell the difference of moving with or without Hyperion Thrusters.

The removal of weapon parts from archwing missions, is both a good change and a bad one. On one hand it removes the grind for particular parts (i finally can craft the Dual Decurion), but it moves that grind to syndicate reputation grind, and at the same time it forces the player to trade since parts of each weapon are given by rival syndicates. On the other hand, the removal of archwing weapon drops, removes any reason to play the missions, and like mentioned before the grind was just moved to syndicate reputation, albeit reduced.

As for the new missions i only tried Pursuit, i tried shooting the shields, but since it wasnt clear what was generating the shields i gave up in frustration after a few minutes (thats not so much of a game problem maybe as a git gud problem). The problem here is that while we now have 2 new mission types, which is always welcome, some of the previous mission types remain, i particularly have a problem with mobile defense, since it makes no sense to remain stationary in outer space, and i feel like staying in one spot and waiting for the enemy goes against the purpose of having a fast attack ship. The reason i stopped playing archwing before the update, was because i felt it was just like "on foot" missions, except this time it was in outer space.

All in all, i found the overhaul extremely disappointing, i feel like almost none of the problems of archwing have been addressed, and new ones have been created thanks to the new movement system and lack of meaningful rewards. In my personal opinion the camera is so frustrating that I dont think i'll be playing archwing, not even for alerts or fomorian attacks.

Sorry for the long post and saltiness, just wanted to give an honest (although with quite a bit of frustatrion) opinion.

EDIT: also i feel that there was no need for eximus in archwing, since missions tend to be harder compared to the ground, and there is really no sense in having a ship that can burst into flames in outer space, that fire would die before hurting anyone, not to mention the venomous eximus, which makes even less sense, i havent seen any freezing eximus, but it would be absurd to put them in space.

EDIT 2: a thing i forgot to mention is the new reticle, which is amazing, now its a lot easier to shoot. Oh also, shooting while "sprinting" is also awesome.

Edited July 9, 2016 by John89brensen

[Valfaun]

i'll also have to join the adverse team, unfortunately... just as others have pointed out. the new system feels really hard to control. during the one mission i tried, i think mobile defense on the Corpus ship tileset, i constantly lost orientation in combat and bumped into everything around me, shooting at enemies as they passed my reticle (which does look nice, at least) and otherwise just floating in a general direction, slowly, until eventually reaching my destination. and well, i couldn't try a second mission because for the first time in my life i felt motion sickness. after just that one mission, i was so nauseous and dizzy that i had to step away for a bit, else i might have thrown up. nothing ever did anything like this to me before. 

i liked the old archwing. it was easy to control and getting around wasn't much of a problem, felt sufficiently fast and was actually enjoyable and cool all things considered. to me, all it really needed was content. some incentive to play archwing missions. it was just a thing on the side that stood isolated on its own. i did the Jordas Precept ending the other day and thought that transition from ground-based to archwing was awesome. that was a step in the right direction, i thought, incorporating archwings into the rest of the game.

now it's a game mode that's literally sickening and that i physically can't bear playing

[mdoucet]

Archwing is basically unplayable for me now. I'm not that good at it admittedly, but I have played a ton and would consider myself at least competent. Now, I can't even complete one of the new mission types by myself with any of the previous Archwings or weapons. Maybe it might be a little better if the inertia was dialed back a bit, but frankly the movement just feels so disorienting.

I really liked the feeling of the rotation up to about 30 degrees, but I just couldn't control it well enough. I could see adding buttons to roll right and left, but with all the other controls going on I admit I'd be lost there too. I guess what I most wish for is just an option to lock that rotation out entirely, as I just really can't play like this. It's hard to dismiss something you've had so little experience with, but I have at least tried a couple dozen missions. When I got my first Archwing it just felt right within about 10 minutes. Here after several hours of fiddling with the sensitivity and controls I'm just making myself dizzy.

[StonedMakak]

4 hours ago, Zeranov said:

I must say I could really dig the new movement, but it's a shame that they forgot a few things to make it great:

• When the world rolls we need two keys to roll left und right! It's super important that we can roll by ourselves in this new system.
• Auto-Correct-Roll is cancer! Sharp turns and upside down structures don't make me dizzy, but this forced auto-correct feature is making me sick. It even tries to correct in mid-flight. Give us an additional key to normalize our orientation instead. NO AUTO-CORRECT!
• Pls fix the broken zoom. The camera is way too close now!
• Why is the camera doing such a weird switch in positions when boosting instead of simply going further away?
• The drag in curves should be increasing relative to the speed. Right now it feels the same regardless of speed, when it should be much lower while going slow. This results in really sluggish movement even at lowest speed.
• Finally... I can shoot out of my butt while boosting and pointing backwards? Thats a pretty nifthy technique, Tenno.

All of this basically, even more so for the sentence in bold. I'm still hoping all those shenanigans are due to bugs. Who in their right mind would implement a system for inducing motion sickness?  

[Kastorius]

There's some good feedback in here and I'm only going to be repeating what others have said, but I will anyway:

• We need a toggle for auto-roll and the ability to roll manually through keybindings of our choosing.
• The added inertia/"floatiness" that many have mentioned should be greatly reduced.
• FOV doesn't bother me, but it seems to make a lot of people nauseous and should be adjustable.

There's no point in adding 6doF movement if the keybindings, FOV, UI and so on don't support proper 6doF controls and interfacing.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Kastorius

[Cortanis]

Like many have said so far, the camera is too close. By that I mean, in 8 out of 10 of the missions I've tried I could tell you what my colon looks like and about nothing else. I'm going to have to classify this as the return of the up your nether regions camera bug.

The new six axis freedom is a great idea, but implemented poorly. I'm a fan of flight simulators and such, but this isn't a flight simulator and we don't all have proper joysticks to work with. The pc version is by nature made for mouse and keyboard. We need a proper fix on this asap. How about a lock vertical rotation option or something like it in the settings?

[Gravi_Maks]

If you made an unsocial guy like me come to forums to complain about changes in a game - then you really did something wrong. Though my complaints will be mostly the same as others':

1) New movement mechanics for Archwing are horrendous. It has a lot of inertia now and feels floaty. I keep bymping into everything, especially in tight spots. It is impossible to maneuver effectively. The previous Archwing mechanics are far more superior. And I don't really care about 6-axis freedom.

2) Partly because of 1), Archwing Rush is way too hard. Floaty movement combined with overly long map, stasis spheres around every corner (literally) and little given time make it a very annoying mission.

3) Camera is too close to the character.

[John89brensen]

Quoting from the changelog page an augment for the odonata.

• Energy Field (Odonata - Energy Shell augment) Energy Shell applies to allies within 35m.

35 meters is absurd in a game mod were you engage the enemy at 500 meters, the maps can be huge, and allies spread apart by hundreds of meters. 

[Vydar]

Arch-wing movement was fine in my opinion.  The new system feels very clunky and claustrophobic, especially on any of the inside the ship missions.  Mouse look should have been default inverted as would any aviation simulation.  When the new parkour movement system was introduced it felt awesome.  It really made you feel like a cybernetic ninja combat movement god.  Now take that ninja and put some wings on it? Boom dirt torpedo.  But wait it's more realistic.  Yes that may be true.  But this is a game where invalid psychics control magic wielding bio-cybernetic death machines from light seconds away. 

Please put the arch wing movement back to the way it was.  If you want to really improve the arch-wing experience in the game add more missions its that simple.  And please can we get more out of the shark-wing missions than its just a kooky vehicle to move from one part of the map to another.

[Bouldershoulder]

People, please, stop saying "like others have said" and saying what they have said. If you have some constructive feedback to add - feel free, but don't clutter the thread with the same issues.

[tischkanteVS]

1) Camera too close

2) Need to ROLL, if i see Planets not - or | but instead the whole Thing is like / or \ i get insane disorientation

3) New Movement Looks good but feels clunky as hell, cant do proper Speedruns with that, Breaks too fast(Instantly) Turning slides when its not supposed to do

4) Add an Option to use either the old or new Movementsystem.

a) New Movement for open Space

b) Old Movement for proper Speedruns

5) Movement seems somehow delayed at certain Situations, Shift+Space+Shooting sometimes shoot, sometimes it doesnt, sometimes i get Animation lock where i have to press another 2 Buttons to regain the Ability to Input Commands

6) Shift+Space sometimes not working, Need to press 3-4 times to actually go into "Sonic" Mode

7) Tried AW Rush again - Conclusion: Pointless. Revert the Six Axis Movement.

As said in 4) Add the Option to use either Old or New Movement

Edited July 9, 2016 by tischkanteVS

[robbybe01234]

Some good suggestions in here already, Ill cherry pick a few.

• Pull idle camera back slightly (to avoid clipping into archwing model and/or obscure view)
• Reduce camera shift when strafing in any direction (this may help motion sickness people)
• Increase enemy size / make the things we need to shoot larger objects.
  • If much of the combat is fought at 150-300 meters, we would like larger targets. (Pursuit is a good start)
• The use of abilities must not be broken by inertia. (see Penumbra on Itzal)
  • Slightly lower inertia

There's more but I feel those would allow for more inviting gameplay.

Thanks.

[nelu_Y3K]

16 hours ago, robbybe01234 said:

I have the same issue with the new camera.  Please add a zoom slider or just pull it back so that larger weapons do not obscure vision.  The blocking you see below is even worse if I were to strafe left.

 

I 120% agree.

Also sadly the new zoom gives me a headache, especially when using melee.

Please ad a zoom option so that we can restore the old zoom level.

Edited July 9, 2016 by nelu_Y3K
misspell

[nelu_Y3K]

18 hours ago, Athanaric said:

Where the heck is roll left and roll right on the key bindings? Its not there.

Agreed. If your going to ad "roll" to archwing we're going to want to control it.

[m4xwellmurd3r]

10 hours ago, Zeranov said:

I must say I could really dig the new movement, but it's a shame that they forgot a few things to make it great:

• When the world rolls we need two keys to roll left und right! It's super important that we can roll by ourselves in this new system.
• Auto-Correct-Roll is cancer! Sharp turns and upside down structures don't make me dizzy, but this forced auto-correct feature is making me sick. It even tries to correct in mid-flight. Give us an additional key to normalize our orientation instead. NO AUTO-CORRECT!
• Pls fix the broken zoom. The camera is way too close now!
• Why is the camera doing such a weird switch in positions when boosting instead of simply going further away?
• The drag in curves should be increasing relative to the speed. Right now it feels the same regardless of speed, when it should be much lower while going slow. This results in really sluggish movement even at lowest speed.
• Finally... I can shoot out of my butt while boosting and pointing backwards? Thats a pretty nifthy technique, Tenno.

1: YES we need roll control desperately

2:YES I hate auto correct. We need a X-axis reset key. or even better we need an X and Y axis HUD like in fighter jet games that zero out to the maps normal plane. It would probably help with some motion sickness issues some people have.

3: I don't know about this one. I play with FOV maxed out and have no issues with the camera

4: no comment, I don't have this issue

5: NO. the current turn speed is fine. YOU'RE IN SPACE REMEMBER???? there is no drag. in space, you can change directions as fast as your thrusters allow you to. There is ZERO DRAG in space. This means at a dead stop your ability to change directions will be basically the same as top speed. It feels fine to me because I understand that it's in a zero G, vacuum environment.

6: I thought this was weird too, but I can do it sometimes in the normal game as well while jump aiming.