Archwing Movement Overhaul Feedback [Megathread]

[Guest]

Opinions away! To DE: -
I don't think the new movement system is the problem per se. It is the fact that the old maps don't work well with it.

Take the corpus ship, for example - the old system was able to cut corners quickly, and was very two-dimensional in terms of alignment, so the map design reflected that to make it exciting to do rapid corridor transit.

The new system has been slowed down, auto levelling made very slow to give a better impression of "true" 3D space (which we'll never anyway have with clumsy stereo vision and limited depth perception, but that's nature for you :)

You will need to revisit maps, especially the size and tile spacing to allow for the new system and which don't fall foul of the poor camera speed. Get rid of the corridor based corpus ships if you need to.

On a side note, I have spoken to people with poor spatial awareness that are going to be made nauseous by the camera switching in melee now there is no constant horizontal plane - will really put some people off their lunch (they also didn't like the Descent games :p )

[m4xwellmurd3r]

I wonder if the fact that I have pretty good spatial awareness and spatial reasoning skills that keeps me from getting sick or disoriented while playing archwing mode. I'm more frustrated that my tilted view doesn't cause any changes on the map than I am anything else. If the map was on a tilted plane that allowed for everything to move in all axis' then maybe it would help some with not getting lost. Cause when the map says there should be a right turn ahead of me, but I'm tilted 90 degrees CCW, that right turn is now below me.

Map design definitely needs to evolve. It needs to be more open and less restricted to corridors now that the controls have opened up. I really think the minimap needs to be redesigned to take the 3rd dimension into consideration.

[artorias_knight]

Camera is too close . also movement in narrow space is bad 

[_CoRDS_.NP-Hard]

Agree with general consensus on movement system being... unworkable.  I seem to just randomly roll around like an old dog.  I tried playing a trench run, but finally just gave up on trying to use actual movement keys unless as a last resort.  Much more efficient to play connect the dots in melee.

I do like the new targeting reticle, and the general IDEA of a movement system that incorporates roll.  But guys, come on.  If you're going to add roll, I need explicit controls for that.

As to the camera, I haven't had a problem with it, but that may be masked by the disorientation from having my "up" be at 35 degrees off horizontal.

[sesame_seed]

1, ARCHWING rotation should be controlled by the player, rather than unordered.
When the player is stop rotates, the system should automatically lock.
2, the original map tips, no longer applies ARCHWING 2.0 system.
When you see the ball in the map, but it has been difficult to find in view.

[MadMav737]

So, at this point (2 "hotfixes" into SoTR) I have to wonder if the fine folks at DE have even played their new archwing debacle? I'm one of those lucky folks who NEVER get motion sickness, not from planes, nor trains, nor automobiles, yet 1, count 'em, ONE, mission of the new and "improved" archwing just made me so motion sick I had to step outside prior to writing this! I know for a fact I'm not the only one experiencing this either, look at any archwing posts anywhere on the forums for exhibits 1-999,999.

Here's the biggest problems I can see and some hopeful ideas to fix them:

      -1. New view:  WAAAY too close to your archwing. Way, way WAY too close. Can't stress it enough. The view is now so close you literally have almost NO "peripheral" vision, i.e. being able to see what's near your character from a third person perspective. This makes basically any and all turns, movement changes, and melee dashes utterly sickening and confusing as all getout! You can't see where you're going...you can't see where you were... and you have no idea where anything/anyone else is.    -THE FIX-   Move the ever-loving camera back please. Really...just that. Move the camera back. Other FOV adjustments/options would be awesome, but really, just move the camera back away from your character and TONS of this badness will go away.

 

     -2. Lack of control: Yes, we have a so called "six degrees of freedom" in our archwing movement now, which is dandy... I guess... but without the ability to manually roll the archwing, each and every movement has the potential, nay, high probability, of initiating a mind-bending rolling/whirling action that only seems to slow down once you've come to a dead stop (if then).      -THE FIX-      We need to be able to control our left-right roll factor. That simple. Either through a key modifier (such as SHIFT+A or D), or designated roll buttons (such as Q and E). SOMETHING, anything... please.

 

So there it is. Sorry if any of this seems a touch ranty. It's all just a very large let down after being told that archwing movement was getting an "overhaul" and that it would be good. What's more, I'm having a hard time seeing why this hasn't been addressed already, D.E. is normally so zealous about patching/hotfixing their content.

[Sauteur2]

Some feedback here too, I agree with most of the issues.

   - When you fly, you need reference. A way to have control of the horizon line its needed in order to make a flight simulator experience. Auto correct is not working.

   - The inertia and the new control makes imposible to fly fast in debris, corpus corridors. That was the most fun thing about AW. Now it´s gone

   - If this was to make a more realistic experience, and I really apreciate that. Why not fix the problem with enemy proportions? Because for me, like my clan mates is really not-inmersive at all, fight a Colosal Corpus that is meant to be my size, but it is imposible to get my mods, because there is no way or system to see in empty space.

   - I know that is a bug, but maybe is there from the wrong idea of making the flight more quick, to put the flight sensibility that high. I just, I can´t do nothing that way.

This is feedback so some humble ideas:

    - Calculate inercia, and turn and pitch rate to make acrobatic flight possible. (playable).

    - Do correct proportions in everything. To make it more realistic, Some kind o radar to point objects, So you can find everything.

    - Tenno fly with a Jet pack, not with a plane. Begin thinking outside the box please.

 

Thanks.

 

[m4xwellmurd3r]

Not only do Tenno fly with a jet pack, they fly with a jet pack in zero-g. This means there is no real up or down. There should be x,y indicators showing the maps basic plane of reference, but outside of that, the maps should better reflect being in zero g better. This also means updating the minimap system to work in three dimensions rather than two.

[LepraSK]

Autoleveling needs to go, or make it togglable.

On Itzal penumbra previously stoped the wings completely, now not, and it breaks the cloak right away after casting.

Pursuit is confusing to me, because Imperator makes no damage, only blue zeroes even on engines, and from time to time it makes some tiny damage. So i dont know if iam targeting the wrong part or what.

But overal 6 DoF FTW.

[Kaotyke]

6 minutes ago, LepraSK said:

Autoleveling needs to go, or make it togglable.

On Itzal penumbra previously stoped the wings completely, now not, and it breaks the cloak right away after casting.

Pursuit is confusing to me, because Imperator makes no damage, only blue zeroes even on engines, and from time to time it makes some tiny damage. So i dont know if iam targeting the wrong part or what.

But overal 6 DoF FTW.

It seems you have to be quiet close and hit the engine in the dead center. And the Shields Gen are at the fron in the middle of the "pincers", glowing yellow.

[-InV-igo95862]

- Every movement except afterburners is way slower. Why?

- Camera is way too close.

[AnimusXv]

Please add a manual-roll key binding and remove the auto-roll. The auto-roll re-orientation is extremely disorienting and counter-productive. I know I can't speak for everyone, but this one issue is what ruins all the progress DE has made in re-modeling the Archwing experience. Any time you take away control of movement from the player you are creating an environment where the player spends as much time trying to anticipate what the game will do with their own character as they do actively playing the game or progressing through the mission.

It would certainly be nice to have the camera pulled back a bit. It would be an improvement to make the archwings a little more responsive in their turning rates. Yet neither of these issues even compete with the auto-roll mechanic. Not to me, at least, and I can attest to at least my own friends feeling the same way.,

[ObviousLee]

Honestly the drifting needs to be tightened up a lot. Overall the changes are welcome, with the new aiming mechanics and the like. 

However, I'd prefer to feel like i'm screaming around the stars with jet pack strapped to my back instead of Driving Miss Daisy 2: Boat trip.

 

Spoiler

(It feels like piloting a boat now, is what i'm getting at.)

 

[grim5000]

This system does not work with the maps we have, especially the close quarters ones. It's very sluggish, so taking those narrow passages, which required skill before, now feel impossible at anything faster than default speed. I get the idea was to make it more realistic, but honestly I think we can justify the old system being realistic enough. It's an advanced flight technology that fits on your waist. These should be plenty capable of calculating and performing burns to make you go where you point without making you compensate for it yourself.

[Sunslayer31]

New movement feels good when fighting in open space, but turning is too slow to make corpus trenchrun at full speed. I can agree with people that saying that current corpus missions was made for old movement system with faster turning and less skidding, so it's much harder now to fly at full speed. I will be happy with maneuverability improvments. Also with system like this it's good to have roll buttons and ability to kill engine (completly turn off main thrusters and continue to fly in pre-kill direction at pre-kill speed while being able to turn in any direction. Something like that was achived before with "sliding". Sometimes very usefull move)

[SIDESTRE4M]

Since working with 3D-CAD applications is my job, I don't have a problem with the rotating scenery and stuff, but I absolutely miss a coordinate system which tells me the directions related to the mini map or change the minimap to 3D. I dunno, something has to be done to improve the pathfinding on corpus maps.

Overall, the new movement feels more natural and interesting to me. Also more challenging, but the old Archwing movement was kinda boring in my opinion, so it's an improvement at least in my opinion.

After the update I will definetly play more Archwing, but there should be seperate keybindings and control settings for Archwing.

Please add keybindings for rolling.

Would be funny if this could be supported :D I would feel directly at home.

Edited July 10, 2016 by SIDESTRE4M

[rockscl]

the new movement system is fine for me

however, corpus trench runs are full of small details to get stuck in, those maps shoud have a custom contact zone over the visual 3d models in order to make a smooth tunnel to move in

out of the corpus trench runs the experience has been neat for me, the pursuit mode being simply natural and immersive, i wonder what happens if you make more big ships with different roles to defend then pursuit target

 

[BlackVortex]

I like the fact we can now move "freely" but the issue is that we can't controll it, which makes it less free

we need Roll controlls

we can Pitch, we can Yaw, but we can't Roll

if there are 3 axis, we should be able to manipulate them, not just 2 of them

[SpeedOfLightPuncher]

The new movement system is fun for me but it changes during mission too fast. Something that would be nice is to decrease the quickness of the change of gravity in missions and to make it work tith the minimap and make melee attack bring you back to your starting gravity. It would also be a big help to enable field of view changing in the settings.

[Hecro]

The movement is amazingnly good, but

Just want to point out the fact that it's horrible the ''auto-repositioning'' the camera has after a while when you are ''running'' with your Archwing.

There should be an option to disable that... the fact that we can move way more freely than before doesn't mean we need to get an option to avoid standing wrong in the space. Not only it makes me feel weird but also makes me motion sick. I'd rather prefer to stay with an option that, if I stay upside down, I keep standing upside down until I want to change my positioning. Otherwise, it makes a lot of us motion sick...

I'm not talking about eliminating a feature, just an option that you can enable to make it not happen.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Hecro

[LSG501]

Bit of a mixed view on this one...

On one side I don't mind the actual system that's been implemented, but I'm not sure if it's actually better than the old one outside outside of the 'acceleration' improvements when pressing left/right.  Having said that it does feel like the warframe is trying to 'drift' round corners like a sports car....

Also why do we slow down when we take our fingers of the 'forward' button... it's space we should at least keep going for a little while.

I do have issues with the size of the warframe and it's zooming back and forward, I've literally lost 2/3's of the screen due to the warframe being really close and archwing going 'left' or 'right' in the screen.  This really doesn't help with seeing the target you're trying to hit.  I think this would work better without all the zooming and a smaller size warframe/archwing to start with (the old size was fine). 

It also seems to me like the update has made it more (at least in the 'old maps') so that you now ideally need to stop and shoot from a distance rather than going in close and doing melee against the enemies... which kind of defeats the point of the melee weapons

I'm also not sure how long I could spend in this area of the game as I'm sure after a while it would give me a headache/motion sickness, something I never had an issue with a game called decent, which had the full '6 degrees of movement and was basically a space mine fighting flight sim, which worked really well from a control perspective too. 

 

EDIT: I also work with a 3D Connexion like up top so wouldn't mind support for that too, not sure I'd actually use it though.

 

Edited July 9, 2016 by LSG501

[Trako]

I was in a Corpus defense with two shuttles. It was unplayable, as I was tilting when i was holding still, and I was inverted until I was basically upside down. I would tilt randomly and with no indication why. I looked in the controls to find if there was an errant control or if my Steam controller was sending errant inputs.

 

This is unacceptable. I'm done with Warframe.

[Sannidor]

I could not imagine how Archwing can feel any worse than before, well congratz DE, you made it.

Feels bad overall, not game breaking in interceptions or exterminations but once i tried

PHOBOS KEPLER RUSH

Now I'm sure nobody in your office played it even once. 

I don't get nauseous even with fpps or racing games, what is even going on in this mission, I can't tell.

The camera sways all the time, the map spins like mad with mission target changing direction.

I run speed build Itzal, not even once on five tries I caught a single ship. I had to stop or else I would puke.

 

Whatever you were trying to do, at this state is a massive failure, back to the drawing board for you.

Archwing turned from: "forced buggy mode with some content locked behind" to: NOPE NOPE NOPE.

 

 

[Sennera]

I just managed to kill 1 transport in the Kepler mission after 4 tries. I had multiple awkward moments, such as getting stuck inside invisible walls with only one invisible exit because the banking is NOT suited for precise movement anymore, and having my 'up' change dramatically whenever I bumped into something.

At one point I was COMPLETELY upside-down which made the 2D minimap extremely confusing and navigating the maze-like trench run became very nauseating (I restarted the mission shortly after I ended up like that.)

 

If we're going to be space ninjas with slick moves, we need a movement system that's not so slick in the literal sense.

[MihariofMabinogi]

Honestly I do like how the archwing missions have more depth. They actually have more of a reason to be played, and it's easier to use your ranged weapons. But holy crap please work on the camera! Maybe add options to use the new or old types of camera angles? Because honestly the new one is so bad, loopy, and twirly from movement alone that it legitimately gave me motion sickness so bad that I had to rush to the bathroom to vomit as soon as extraction on the archwing defense I was doing was available. Don't even get me started on how bad the camera gets when using melee attacks!

 

Me and my friends aren't very easily prone to motion sickness, so I think that says a lot on how much the camera needs reworking.