Why Dark Sectors Should Be A Top Priority After The War Within

[(PSN)CrackFoxLegend]

10 hours ago, Chroia said:

1a) Yeah, that was just me being frustrated 1 year later.

1b) And I can just as easily say that I'd see less than a dozen messages like that a day on PC. So no, not redundant - though perhaps not productive.

2) Fair enough, but still anecdotal.
(Also, how does this address the second part of the question?)

3) So what you are saying is, if there's someone's doing something I don't like on a rail, I should attack them with my one man clan, because try and try again and I'll win sooner or later - and this is perfectly valid because that's how it works (and how it's intended to work)?
And anyone else who wants to challenge the node's ownership (if for conquest, if because they want to oust the current owners) should just be alright with it too, because that's how it works.
 

4) Hi. I like Infested Excavations - for the gameplay. (Though admittedly less since they were changed.)
And that isn't offered anywhere outside of Dark Sectors.

Thanks for pointing out that I didn't answer the whole question. You would be correct, it isn't worth ruining the game for any player. There is a lot of contest on the forums stating they don't want conflicts to return in any way, so I get defensive. I know a lot of players that have drifted away from the game since the armistice was put in place and I know even more players in my own clan that were extremely excited about the concept of conflicts returning, just to have that thought dumped on by DE. I think instead of arguing about the old system, we should be trying to construct a new system that's better than the old one that we could push to DE. I hate starting threads but if Sitchrea reads this and would start a new thread for a new system, I would love to contribute.

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

On 7/13/2016 at 1:28 PM, spiralmenace said:

"i want more pvp and i'm gonna scream until i get it" is what you dark sectors guys sound like

I'm just going to assume you have never played a Solar Rail before. Solar Rails were PvE most of the time. Sometimes players would join the opposite team and would fight you. Please educate yourself before being so negative.

[BornWithTeeth]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)Solar Rails said:

I'm just going to assume you have never played a Solar Rail before. Solar Rails were PvE most of the time. Sometimes players would join the opposite team and would fight you. Please educate yourself before being so negative.

Solar Rails were functionally PvP because even when you were facing only Specters, those Specters were tactical assets created by players and deployed against players in a struggle between players. Solar Rails were always PvP at the strategic level, and that was all that was required for toxicity to creep in.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nice username, by the way.

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

On 7/13/2016 at 9:50 PM, Chroia said:

1) You can take your new Braton Prime into Conclave.

2) Void Fissures at least have variety in type, in that the 'host mission' changes.
PvP Dark Sector Conflicts didn't even have that. 1 game-mode, 1 map, 1 enemy faction. The only difference was in how many resources the alliance architect had to throw into defenses.
And even adding more maps to it won't change the fact that you've got a strictly limited scope of variety, due to being a single game mode against the same faction all the time.

3) Except that snowballing is in full effect - the winners can afford better battle pay -> more people play on their side -> more wins -> more tax sources -> repeat.
So all you've done is replace the 'get loot to get more loot' cycle with a 'get taxes to get more taxes' which is less fun for most people (most people aren't here for PvP. Hence Lunaro.), fun for less people (Fun for the winners, not fun for the losers, and negatively impacts those who want nothing to do with it), and which offers less variety to boot.

and that's ignoring all the extraneous drama, complications, monopolies, conspiracies, DDoSes, etc.

So many misconceptions in this post.

1. >Implying conclave can even compete with the experience that was solar rails.

2. It was against any number of factions the player wanted to fight. Wanted to fight blue team on sechura ? Go right ahead. Wanted to fight gray team on Ur ? It's your choice.

Inb4 "I was talking about enemy AI factions"; To which I respond by saying that players will always be more fun to fight than AIs.

3. This really shows me you have zero experience with railing. You don't need battlepay to take rails. That's just common sense. My alliance has fought with 0 battlepay and have taken the rails. Art of War had 0% tax nodes and were still able to provide more battlepay than any of their competitors.

Posts like this demonstrate that there is a culture of extreme ignorance with regards to Solar Rails in this community.

[Chroia]

38 minutes ago, (XB1)Solar Rails said:

So many misconceptions in this post.

1. >Implying conclave can even compete with the experience that was solar rails.

2. It was against any number of factions the player wanted to fight. Wanted to fight blue team on sechura ? Go right ahead. Wanted to fight gray team on Ur ? It's your choice.

Inb4 "I was talking about enemy AI factions"; To which I respond by saying that players will always be more fun to fight than AIs.

3. This really shows me you have zero experience with railing. You don't need battlepay to take rails. That's just common sense. My alliance has fought with 0 battlepay and have taken the rails. Art of War had 0% tax nodes and were still able to provide more battlepay than any of their competitors.

Posts like this demonstrate that there is a culture of extreme ignorance with regards to Solar Rails in this community.

So much condescension in this post.

Compete? Sure. But I wouldn't compare them, because they're, you know, different.
And, as an aside, that unmodded Braton Prime would serve an order of magnitude better in Conclave than in Conflicts, because simple math: Base stats + Redirection/Vitality/Quick Thinking (any or all) on the one hand, no base damage, no multishot and no elemental damage on the other.

So, do you not understand the context of my use of 'faction', or are you just playing dumb?
A good game against players is more fun than playing against AI, sure. But that's not what most Conflicts were.
Most Conflicts weren't competitions, they were cheesefests with Ashs, Valkyrs, Vaubans, black energy Lokis and so on. Feel free to look up just about any feedback post from then.
And no, that's not more fun than playing against AI.

Enough people say that rails were different on XB1/PS4 than on PC for me to accept it as likely true. (Take a look at Tsukinoki's post 1 page back, for some examples.)
Even granting that, however, between your lack of broader perspective and unwillingness to entertain any other position than your own, there isn't really much to discuss here, is there?

Edited July 16, 2016 by Chroia

[Voltage]

On July 13, 2016 at 9:11 PM, BornWithTeeth said:

Yeah, see, when I look at a post like this, what I hear is "I really, really, really, really want to use PvP mechanics to screw over players who aren't interested in PvP. I want to mess with their game and force them to get involved in PvP just to make me back off and leave them alone."

 

 

 

This is how I feel. I am not a noob, but I have no interest in PvP. If dark sectors doesn't let me Hieracon, I'm gonna have ALOT of beef. No PvP mechanic on the face of the game should even touch the PvE

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

3 minutes ago, Chroia said:

So much condescension in this post.

Compete? Sure. But I wouldn't compare them, because they're, you know, different.
And, as an aside, that unmodded Braton Prime would serve an order of magnitude better in Conclave than in Conflicts, because simple math: Base stats + Redirection/Vitality/Quick Thinking (any or all) on the one hand, no base damage, no multishot and no elemental damage on the other.

So, do you not understand the context of my use of 'faction', or are you just playing dumb?
A good game against players is more fun than playing against AI, sure. But that's not what most Conflicts were.
Most Conflicts weren't competitions, they were cheesefests with Ashs, Valkyrs, Vaubans, black energy Lokis and so on. Feel free to look up just about any feedback post from then.
And no, that's not more fun than playing against AI.

Enough people say that rails were different on XB1/PS4 than on PC for me to accept it as likely true.
Even granting that, however, between your lack of broader research and unwillingness to entertain any other position than your own, there isn't really much to discuss here, is there?

>Implying Ash's, Valkyrs, Vauban's, and Black energy lokis were unbeatabke.

They weren't. The only things I had to use on rails were Mag Prime and my trusty Latron. I didn't even have a serration and yet I was able to near obliterate everyone of the "cheeses" you listed. 

You can forma your braton prime and have 44 mod points right off the bat yknow. With a formad build, that is more than enough to make it competitive.

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

5 minutes ago, -Voltage- said:

This is how I feel. I am not a noob, but I have no interest in PvP. If dark sectors doesn't let me Hieracon, I'm gonna have ALOT of beef. No PvP mechanic on the face of the game should even touch the PvE

You know that you can select multiple instances of the same node, right ? Like how if there is a syndicate mission on a node you can opt to do the regular version of it. 

Also, just because someone owns the node, doesn't mean you can't play on it.

[WrathAscending]

33 minutes ago, (XB1)Solar Rails said:

You know that you can select multiple instances of the same node, right ? Like how if there is a syndicate mission on a node you can opt to do the regular version of it. 

Also, just because someone owns the node, doesn't mean you can't play on it.

At the time there was no such option. There were days when Captain Vor's Assassinate mission would go into Nightmare mode. Good luck to the new players who had to fight him to get off of Mercury, eh?

The same problem existed with Dark Sectors. Not only was there no option to choose the normal mission over the PVP contest, if there had been an option to they may have disabled it. Otherwise the controlling Alliance would still be collecting taxes through the Conflict to bolster their battle pay, making it more difficult for attackers to succeed and providing little incentive for most players to even try PVP.

As for node ownership, before the Armistice went into effect PC players were staring at 99% Credit taxes and similarly onerous Resource taxes. The Console Alliances were heading in the same direction and were saved not because they were different but because DE stepped in before it degenerated that far. Allowing Alliances to set taxes sounded like a good idea at the time but in practice human nature happened, as it always does. They could have set a cap on taxes, but then any Alliance who took a node would have no reason to keep it below the cap. And again, in practice it was very difficult if not impossible to dislodge an Alliance from a node. People would often argue on the forums that Alliances with exorbitant tax rates would be defeated in the conflict, but what actually happened was that they had the advantage of taxes in their coffers to offer extremely high battle pay, and players would opt for the immediate reward over the long-term ability to grind for credits because it was a more effective use of their time. May as well take the 100K+ battle pay for a few rounds and then when the tax rates went back on, do Tower III/IV Capture missions for quick credits.

Ultimately, Conclave is a much better way of handling PVP. It has, with the exception of Spring-Loaded Broadhead, absolutely no impact on PVE content. Anything else that can be used in PVE is available from PVE. The game is primarily PVE and was initially going to be a PVE-only environment. I understand that some players want PVP content, but I could not be less interested in it and do not want it to have any impact on the greater part of the community or game.

[Kyronz]

I would rather they focus on new stuff since they have removed so much old stuff from possible play.

There goal seems to be too shrink the game and remove play options, so i have a few qualms about the rest of the updates.

[Corvid]

On ‎13‎/‎07‎/‎2016 at 7:20 PM, Sitchrea said:

Advertisements, marketing, and best friends trying to get you to play say Warframe is a game about space ninja warrior-gods killing thousands of enemies a mission in stylistic fashion.

They are right... And wrong.

Taking away all the flash, pizazz, and narrative, getting down to what the player ~actually~ does for his majority of play time is: loot acquisition.

And what are you doing while acquiring that loot? Oh right! You're

 

On ‎13‎/‎07‎/‎2016 at 7:20 PM, Sitchrea said:

killing thousands of enemies a mission in stylistic fashion.

 

I don't see how a PvP mode will allow you to kill

 

On ‎13‎/‎07‎/‎2016 at 7:20 PM, Sitchrea said:

thousands of enemies a mission in stylistic fashion

when PVP tends to be about killing only a few

 

On ‎13‎/‎07‎/‎2016 at 7:20 PM, Sitchrea said:

enemies a mission in stylistic fashion.

 

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

56 minutes ago, WrathAscending said:

At the time there was no such option. There were days when Captain Vor's Assassinate mission would go into Nightmare mode. Good luck to the new players who had to fight him to get off of Mercury, eh?

The same problem existed with Dark Sectors. Not only was there no option to choose the normal mission over the PVP contest, if there had been an option to they may have disabled it. Otherwise the controlling Alliance would still be collecting taxes through the Conflict to bolster their battle pay, making it more difficult for attackers to succeed and providing little incentive for most players to even try PVP.

As for node ownership, before the Armistice went into effect PC players were staring at 99% Credit taxes and similarly onerous Resource taxes. The Console Alliances were heading in the same direction and were saved not because they were different but because DE stepped in before it degenerated that far. Allowing Alliances to set taxes sounded like a good idea at the time but in practice human nature happened, as it always does. They could have set a cap on taxes, but then any Alliance who took a node would have no reason to keep it below the cap. And again, in practice it was very difficult if not impossible to dislodge an Alliance from a node. People would often argue on the forums that Alliances with exorbitant tax rates would be defeated in the conflict, but what actually happened was that they had the advantage of taxes in their coffers to offer extremely high battle pay, and players would opt for the immediate reward over the long-term ability to grind for credits because it was a more effective use of their time. May as well take the 100K+ battle pay for a few rounds and then when the tax rates went back on, do Tower III/IV Capture missions for quick credits.

Ultimately, Conclave is a much better way of handling PVP. It has, with the exception of Spring-Loaded Broadhead, absolutely no impact on PVE content. Anything else that can be used in PVE is available from PVE. The game is primarily PVE and was initially going to be a PVE-only environment. I understand that some players want PVP content, but I could not be less interested in it and do not want it to have any impact on the greater part of the community or game.

You really know next to nothing about rails if you think Xbox one rails were swinging up in taxes. They started off high (if you could call 30% high) and dropped lower and lower and as we came closer to armistice day. 2/3 major alliances had 0% taxes on some nodes while the other one barely reached over 10% during double credit weekends.

[WrathAscending]

5 minutes ago, (XB1)Solar Rails said:

You really know next to nothing about rails if you think Xbox one rails were swinging up in taxes. They started off high (if you could call 30% high) and dropped lower and lower and as we came closer to armistice day. 2/3 major alliances had 0% taxes on some nodes while the other one barely reached over 10% during double credit weekends.

I heard the same arguments made about what could or would have happened on PC. We had 0% nodes once too but those all fell.

PVP is still in the game. Conclave is an option if you want to use it, but Dark Sectors are gone and Steve's indicated that when the concept is revisited it won't be a PVP mode.

 

[felixsylvaris]

What should be next step after War Within everyone has own opinion.

I think that DS are good place to level up and get resourses. Also almost always someone plays there (to get xp and resources) so it is easy to find match.

I am bit exited about more team based, ELO, PvP. 

What i am looking for:

• General improvments, let  DE keep doing what it does.
• Some lv 60 content.
• Mixed AW mission. Like corpus cloud city or infested shipyard, where you jump out of airlock to do some task in AW suit, and jump back to corridors. Like Neptune but IN SPACE.

[LordOfScrugging]

yea, i know some liked the conflicts and stuff, but i'd rather not go back to having some alliances taxing me of all my credits and resources just so i can play on a bland map for however long the mission will take.

[Sitchrea]

2 hours ago, Corvid said:

And what are you doing while acquiring that loot? Oh right! You're

 

 

I don't see how a PvP mode will allow you to kill

 

when PVP tends to be about killing only a few

 

 

Witty. I give you a +1, sir.

Though my point should not have been that Dark Sectors are about killing thousands of enemies. Dark Sectors should be about Clan camaraderie and teamwork against other clans for control of space.

[Zeiss17]

Ahahaha you're funny Man, now go play conclave and let pve people enjoy their content. If they took DS out and are not getting them back there is a clear reason. People in this game who want to pvp got their lil playground where to go CoD like. Also, your reasoning doesn't make sense. You are still using loot to acquire more loot for loot sake.

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

4 hours ago, ShaneKahnnigan17 said:

1.Ahahaha you're funny Man,

2. now go play conclave and let pve people enjoy their content.

3.If they took DS out and are not getting them back there is a clear reason.

4.People in this game who want to pvp got their lil playground where to go CoD like.

5.Also, your reasoning doesn't make sense. You are still using loot to acquire more loot for loot sake.

1. Lol.

2.>Implying dark sectors wasn't PvE content.

>Implying conclave is enjoyable.

3. We didn't get a clear reason.

4.>Implying CoD even remotely can compete with solar rails.

5. You don't get loot here. Mods and parts don't drop from enemies here. (Not 100% sure on this, had an enemy drop tranquil cleave one time)

[WrathAscending]

2: Conclave is much, much more enjoyable than the Rails were because no matter how irritating it might be to get repeatedly gunned down by someone with aimbot-level accuracy while they Parkour about with a Furis, it's still far better than Vauban spawn-camping or Ash Fleeting Expertise Bladestorming and wiping out the entire opposing team. The mod and weapon limitations for Conclave are very much for the best.

3: We did get a clear reason. Dark Sectors did not work as intended. Alliance monopolies formed, and both the game and forums were filled with angst. DE never confirmed that DDoSes were linked to Dark Sector conflicts, but those would invariably occur when specific nodes held by specific Alliances went into Conflict, would last the duration of that conflict, and would then cease so I believe the correlation is clear. On top of that there was definitely gaming of the system going on where only the attacker could host Rail conflicts and if the attacking team was losing the host would quit, force a migration, and the migration would result in the defender's efforts being nullified and all defenders dropped to their Lisets. Nothing good was coming from them, and both the game and forums were getting more and more toxic. And not just in Rail threads, chat, or discussion, it was spilling over everywhere.

4: CoD is at least built from the ground up with the assumption that PVP will be a significant (if not the major) reason people are getting into the game in the first place. Warframe was different.

5: Back in the day, you did- rare Melee and Warframe mods did drop during PVP, including the Nikana stances and Berserker. It was in fact far easier to get those mods from PVP than it was to get them from normal enemies.

I realise that Console games with online connectivity generally use that for competitive rather than co-operative play. Warframe however was designed on PC, not initially slated for console release, and envisioned as a PVE-only game. PVP is, by design and intent, always going to take a back seat to PVE content.

If you want PVP, it's still available as Conclave. If you want something more similar to the no-limits PVP of old, you can invite players to your Dojo and Duel.

 

[SilentMobius]

On 7/13/2016 at 7:34 PM, spiralmenace said:

and yes, dark sectors are pvp in the grandest sense. it's clans, made up of players, fighting over territory with other clans made up of players

Well no, that was an implementation of the idea.

Dark Sectors was about dead solar rail links to lost parts of the Origin system where the Tenno could build new rail to gain access to the ancient lost areas... That was a great idea. In fact it was the titular focus for the game-DE-wanted-to-make-that-because-Warframe.

Imagine the ancient Orokin civilian tile-sets, untouched for thousands of years, stations and settlements who have been alone all this time. All sorts of secrets waiting to be uncovered.

Unfortunately DE wrapped in in a genital measuring contest and eventually required the least played game mode.... PvP and obviously things got toxic fast.

So yeah, I'd love to see Dark Sectors return, with no inter-player conflict of any kind, actually being based in the lore of the game (How can you have a solar rail going to a "hidden" location on the same planet with the same modern grineer base) where the majority of the player base might actually want to engage, I.E not genital measuring or waving and no PvP at all.

 

That would be awesome.

Edited July 17, 2016 by SilentMobius

[VDeorsum]

The only thing that i want to see is the return of the dark sector, but with the options of the pvp or the old conflict with specters when i start the mission. The only differences will be te value: 1 pvp count like 10 pve, or somethimg like that. 

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

12 hours ago, WrathAscending said:

2: Conclave is much, much more enjoyable than the Rails were because no matter how irritating it might be to get repeatedly gunned down by someone with aimbot-level accuracy while they Parkour about with a Furis, it's still far better than Vauban spawn-camping or Ash Fleeting Expertise Bladestorming and wiping out the entire opposing team. The mod and weapon limitations for Conclave are very much for the best.

3: We did get a clear reason. Dark Sectors did not work as intended. Alliance monopolies formed, and both the game and forums were filled with angst. DE never confirmed that DDoSes were linked to Dark Sector conflicts, but those would invariably occur when specific nodes held by specific Alliances went into Conflict, would last the duration of that conflict, and would then cease so I believe the correlation is clear. On top of that there was definitely gaming of the system going on where only the attacker could host Rail conflicts and if the attacking team was losing the host would quit, force a migration, and the migration would result in the defender's efforts being nullified and all defenders dropped to their Lisets. Nothing good was coming from them, and both the game and forums were getting more and more toxic. And not just in Rail threads, chat, or discussion, it was spilling over everywhere.

4: CoD is at least built from the ground up with the assumption that PVP will be a significant (if not the major) reason people are getting into the game in the first place. Warframe was different.

5: Back in the day, you did- rare Melee and Warframe mods did drop during PVP, including the Nikana stances and Berserker. It was in fact far easier to get those mods from PVP than it was to get them from normal enemies.

I realise that Console games with online connectivity generally use that for competitive rather than co-operative play. Warframe however was designed on PC, not initially slated for console release, and envisioned as a PVE-only game. PVP is, by design and intent, always going to take a back seat to PVE content.

If you want PVP, it's still available as Conclave. If you want something more similar to the no-limits PVP of old, you can invite players to your Dojo and Duel.

 

2. Kind of sad that nobody on PC figured out how to beat those builds while us console peasants beat these supposedly "game-breaking" builds. I don't think PC railers could stand a chance against any of the XB1 OG rail teams. I agree with the mod limitations, I support a future with Solar Rails using conclave mechanics.

3. We didn't experience any of these issues on the Xbone. The worst issue we faced was not being able to join the conflicts for defense while there were 17 squads in. That was fixed using a hard reset. PC just didnt have the dedication and understanding to handle solar rails. I wouldn't either if I had to play on a PC.

4. Solar Rails are almost indescribably better than COD in almost every way. The only way that COD is better is that it has less people complaining about PvP on its forums.

5. I didn't know that. I'll hit up my people and see if they can confirm.

I'm fine with Solar Rails having 0% taxes across the board. I'm fine with them not being related to PvE. I'm fine with DE using conclave mechanics for Solar Rails. Just bring them back SOMEHOW, is all we are asking for. 

[BornWithTeeth]

4 minutes ago, (XB1)Solar Rails said:

2. Kind of sad that nobody on PC figured out how to beat those builds while us console peasants beat these supposedly "game-breaking" builds. I don't think PC railers could stand a chance against any of the XB1 OG rail teams. I agree with the mod limitations, I support a future with Solar Rails using conclave mechanics.

3. We didn't experience any of these issues on the Xbone. The worst issue we faced was not being able to join the conflicts for defense while there were 17 squads in. That was fixed using a hard reset. PC just didnt have the dedication and understanding to handle solar rails. I wouldn't either if I had to play on a PC.

4. Solar Rails are almost indescribably better than COD in almost every way. The only way that COD is better is that it has less people complaining about PvP on its forums.

5. I didn't know that. I'll hit up my people and see if they can confirm.

I'm fine with Solar Rails having 0% taxes across the board. I'm fine with them not being related to PvE. I'm fine with DE using conclave mechanics for Solar Rails. Just bring them back SOMEHOW, is all we are asking for. 

 

"Well doctor, I just....I just can't stop talking about how elite I am. No-one else in this surgery is as good at bragging as I am!!!"

 

 

 

 

In any case, for folks talking about how dynamic and challenging the system was, and how if you didn't like the clan or alliance holding a node, why, you and your friends could just git gud and kick them off.......the actual statistics tell another story. I went and had a look at the records of the last ten conflicts on each Dark Sector node, roughly covering the last month before Armistice. I pulled records for twenty-four nodes, and with ten conflicts recorded on each node, that gives us a sample size of 240 nodes. Of those conflicts, nodes changed ownership six times. Out of two hundred and forty. Challengers ousted defenders and took control of nodes 2.5% of the time.

 

Challenging a node had a success rate of 2.5%.

 

For bonus statistics! Of those twenty-four nodes which I looked at, when the Armistice came down:

- 5 were held by V

- 5 were held by Orion

- 4 were held by Synergy

- 3 were held by Lords of the East

- 1 was held by Ladies of the East

- 2 were held by ICE

- 1 was held by Shruikan

- 1 was held by INVICTUS

- 1 was held by Original Goon Squad

- 1 was held by Coup d etat

 

The three biggest Alliances hold half of the nodes.

 

 

Let's have a thrilling discussion about this talking point.

[WrathAscending]

30 minutes ago, (XB1)Solar Rails said:

2. Kind of sad that nobody on PC figured out how to beat those builds while us console peasants beat these supposedly "game-breaking" builds. I don't think PC railers could stand a chance against any of the XB1 OG rail teams.

There was literally no counter to Vauban CC spawn camping. As soon as you spawned in you were suspended by the Bastille or swept up in the Vortex. Nothing could be done to prevent that.

Likewise, Ash players with a Fleeting Expertise in the upper left slot were all but unstoppable, all they had to do was see one opposing player, hit 4, and anyone else on the tile would die.

And get cycled back into the spawn cue, where they'd get hit by the Vauban.

Attacking teams had the advantage with such tactics too because they were queueing as hosts and would spawn in with an opportunity to gain Energy and lock down spawn points before Rail defenders had any such opportunity.

As for the rest of your post? If you enjoyed the old Rail system, especially in spite of Vauban/Ash cheese, DDoSes, Attacker host migration preventing Defenders accomplishing anything and, as BWT points out the issue that Rails hardly ever fell (attributable not just to the preceding but also the problem of Rail-blocking where Alliances friendly to the current owners would deploy a Rail the offer no battle pay, thereby providing no incentive for anyone to participate in the Conflict...) then more power to you, I suppose. It was not a game mode that the majority of the player base got anything out of. Most people who were around for the bad old days can remember the surrounding problems and don't want to go back to it.

[Zarozian]

Vote for me and I will make Dark Sectors disappear forever!