BLADESTORM: Does it really NEED to Change?

[(XBOX)Oussii]

Oh god, clearly man you are not playing ASH enough

You can get infinite range for ash on the account of damage

You cannot have a damage of 6000 with overextended

So you choose what you want, damage or distance

Same thing applies to frost

I personally don't have stretch nor overextended on Ash, ( i don't need them), i am looking for damage for than distance and i always get 18 kills plus the proc.

Same issue with Avalanche

Cheers

[motorfirebox]

15 minutes ago, (XB1)Oussii said:

Oh god, clearly man you are not playing ASH enough

You can get infinite range for ash on the account of damage

You cannot have a damage of 6000 with overextended

So you choose what you want, damage or distance

Same thing applies to frost

I personally don't have stretch nor overextended on Ash, ( i don't need them), i am looking for damage for than distance and i always get 18 kills plus the proc.

Same issue with Avalanche

Cheers

You're ignoring one of the key differences between BS and Avalanche: cast range. Avalanche is limited to the the 15m radius directly surrounding Frost. BS has a 50m cast range, from which you get a 25m radius of effect. If Frost wants to hit a bunch of guys on the other wide of the room with Avalance, he has to cross the room. If Ash wants to hit a bunch of guys on the other side of the room with BS, he hits 4 and the stabbing begins.

Ash is better at killing than Frost. Period, paragraph, page, chapter, book, three-part trilogy, shelf, library.

[Eldritchsqueaker]

Comparing the two is irrelevant really. Frost is for defense, Ash is for offense, they're two completely different frames for completely different roles.  

[_Iye]

58 minutes ago, Eldritchkitty said:

Comparing the two is irrelevant really. Frost is for defense, Ash is for offense, they're two completely different frames for completely different roles.  

Frost is for Defensive you say!! Frost is capable of both defensive and offensive and just wish if I could refer you the place where I read that he is one of the masters of both play styles.

Quote

This is Frost, colder and deadlier than space itself.

Frost can protect or punish, the decision is yours.

                                                                                —Lotus

I am a proud frost user and modded him for any faction and situation. He is one all round go to frame and danm I know better because he is my top best favorite frame.

Edited August 11, 2016 by AhmadIYE

[catastrophy]

Meh, they can do whatever. I find Ash boring.

[Eldritchsqueaker]

8 hours ago, AhmadIYE said:

Frost is for Defensive you say!! Frost is capable of both defensive and offensive and just wish if I could refer you the place where I read that he is one of the masters of both play styles.

I am a proud frost user and modded him for any faction and situation. He is one all round go to frame and danm I know better because he is my top best favorite frame.

An in game flavor blurb =/= actual gameplay, all of Frost's powers are good for slowing down enemies in high level play not killing them. That he has to use guns for.

[motorfirebox]

The only reason Frost is in the conversation at all is that those who like Ash as he is right now are using Frost as an excuse to keep Ash the same. The failure of that argument is that Frost simply doesn't compare to Ash.

[Mr._Clean]

21 hours ago, AhmadIYE said:

Frost is for Defensive you say!! Frost is capable of both defensive and offensive and just wish if I could refer you the place where I read that he is one of the masters of both play styles.

I am a proud frost user and modded him for any faction and situation. He is one all round go to frame and danm I know better because he is my top best favorite frame.

 

Frost is my favorite frame too. :) And let's also not forget that Bladestorm deals FINISHER damage that's one of my major quips with it.

 

Edited August 12, 2016 by Mr._Clean
Clarified what my favorite frame is (hint it's not Ash)

[(XBOX)Drvnzer]

53 minutes ago, Mr._Clean said:

 

My favorite frame too. :) And let's also not forget that Bladestorm deals FINISHER damage that's one of my major quips with it.

 

But that what makes ash unique 

[Chipputer]

12 hours ago, Eldritchkitty said:

An in game flavor blurb =/= actual gameplay, all of Frost's powers are good for slowing down enemies in high level play not killing them. That he has to use guns for.

Build your Frost for power strength and efficiency (and maybe a dash of range) and you'll change your tune right quick. He is one of the most well rounded frames in the game, when modded appropriately for the situation you're running in to. Heck, even without appropriate modding he makes up for any shortcomings with the CC side-effects that he brings.

[rockscl]

Just make it archmelee for X seconds, that will allow intentional focus, will reward players with hands and will make bladestorm fully interactive 

Edited August 12, 2016 by rockscl

[LunarEdge7]

Like I posted before.. just change his Bladestorm to a target zone ability. Let the range be less than it is now.

Hold it down and aim with the reticle on where you want to target and release to set target zone. The target zone could.. look like a red circle with some smoke inside, flowing around perhaps?

Press once when you see 'x' number of enemies in your Bladestorm ability icon. Any other enemy that gets in the target zone will automatically be targeted next, unless you press the ability again whilst mid-animation of finisher on an enemy. When there're no enemies left, Ash will teleport back to wherever you started activating the execution of finisher on enemies inside the zone. 50m limited unmoddable range to how far you can be from the target zone and teleport there to execute finishers.

Range of the zone can be modded, but should definitely be less than the range it has now. 10 meters? 15? 20?

Good ability to lock down an area and prevent more troublesome mobs from reaching your team. And any enemies still alive when my energy runs out will probably be bleeding to or near their death anyways.

Now, I'm not too sure how much energy cost he should use on first teleport and finisher, along with the other consecutive finishers.. or let it cost the same amount as before?

.. I want to use his Smoke Screen, snipe enemies with Vectis Prime, then BS them only when they get to close for comfort.

[Shad0wFerret]

I would like to see BS change. I find Merc's suggestion to be fairly suitable. I have one of my own in a similar vain. I would like to see BS change to something similar to Ivara's Bow. You would press 4 to toggle it Ash would then pull out his blades and throw down his clones and then you "Fire" at an enemy. Ash then teleports to the enemy and kills them and the clones kill any other enemies within 3 to 5m.

Ash would stay at the spot of the enemy he killed. Activating the ability would cost 25 and killing an enemy(ies) would cost 15 per teleport. Ash would NOT be able to move normally while BS is active instead only teleport to enemies. This would mean that players would need to plan their teleports around getting within view of the next group of enemies as well as not marking every single enemy in sight as a target. This I think would allow the ability to be more interactive while still allowing for the skill to still be useful but not overshadow other players.

[(XBOX)Drvnzer]

1 hour ago, Shad0wFerret said:

I would like to see BS change. I find Merc's suggestion to be fairly suitable. I have one of my own in a similar vain. I would like to see BS change to something similar to Ivara's Bow. You would press 4 to toggle it Ash would then pull out his blades and throw down his clones and then you "Fire" at an enemy. Ash then teleports to the enemy and kills them and the clones kill any other enemies within 3 to 5m.

Ash would stay at the spot of the enemy he killed. Activating the ability would cost 25 and killing an enemy(ies) would cost 15 per teleport. Ash would NOT be able to move normally while BS is active instead only teleport to enemies. This would mean that players would need to plan their teleports around getting within view of the next group of enemies as well as not marking every single enemy in sight as a target. This I think would allow the ability to be more interactive while still allowing for the skill to still be useful but not overshadow other players.

What I got from this is teleport with clones.

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

Why can't we keep nice things ? I swear DE spends more time redesigning things that mostly worked out fine in the first place than releasing meaningful new content. There's pretty much nothing to do in game for veterans, yet it's crucial to make the star chart and the market more pretty , to turn the much appreciated void into booring fissure gameplay, to change the archwing camera, to rebalance popular frames usually making them less appealing in the process..

Meanwhile, we still don't have sortie tokens, any reasons to do sorties once you have the few guns and nezha, 98% of the starchart is still useless with no great rewards and terrible XP gain... Focus is still mostly broken except for two or three must have passives, there's litterally so many huge things that are borderline broken, yet the top priority is to rework one of the most popular frame to make him less useful and "OP", when pretty much all used frames have OP broken builds anyway.

There's 30+ frames in this game. Of all these frames, ASH has become the most popular one globally. People love using him, he's very useful in numerous situations and many people , myself included, might quit Warframe if he gets destroyed. He's the truest "ninja frame" in the game after all.

In the meanwhile, there's tons of frames that nobody plays anymore. Hydroid, Oberon, Zephyr, Limbo, the list goes on... Why not fix those instead of screwing the frames that actually work and that people enjoy using ?

But i hear it's about balance... Please, balance in a game with Tonkor, Sonicor, Synoid Simulor and Mirage, a game where Nova can prime the whole map and make them blow up, when excal can blind the whole map and turret them with exalted blade, where frost can freeze and debuff armor from everyone, where ember bascially has an active bladestorm that doesn't even have to be aimed and can kill the whole map with zero effort... Yet Ash gets the bad press because he's popular.

Edited August 13, 2016 by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra

[Chipputer]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

Why can't we keep nice things ?

I guess if you consider, "I will kill everything and make my teammates stand around wishing they got to play the game too," nice then okay sure.

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

there's tons of frames that nobody plays anymore. Hydroid, Oberon, Zephyr, Limbo, the list goes on...

If the list goes on then why don't you keep typing? There are plenty of people that use each of those frames. I find it odd that you don't mention Banshee, who is literally the least played frame in the game, but you'll mention Oberon and Zephyr, two frames that people pull out quite often for specific situations.

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

Of all these frames, ASH has become the most popular one globally.

Take a few minutes and ask yourself why Ash is the most popular. If it's, "he's a ninja frame," then you're not looking at the bigger picture. It's because it's easy to stand in one spot and nuke the entire map from a safe distance.

Key point: Stand in one spot and nuke from a distance.

It's clear you didn't read the actual thread as you typed up your response. Ash is unique in exactly how powerful he is and exactly how he affects his allies while using his powers. Read the thread.

[Eldritchsqueaker]

50 minutes ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

Why can't we keep nice things ? I swear DE spends more time redesigning things that mostly worked out fine in the first place than releasing meaningful new content. There's pretty much nothing to do in game for veterans, yet it's crucial to make the star chart and the market more pretty , to turn the much appreciated void into booring fissure gameplay, to change the archwing camera, to rebalance popular frames usually making them less appealing in the process..

Meanwhile, we still don't have sortie tokens, any reasons to do sorties once you have the few guns and nezha, 98% of the starchart is still useless with no great rewards and terrible XP gain... Focus is still mostly broken except for two or three must have passives, there's litterally so many huge things that are borderline broken, yet the top priority is to rework one of the most popular frame to make him less useful and "OP", when pretty much all used frames have OP broken builds anyway.

There's 30+ frames in this game. Of all these frames, ASH has become the most popular one globally. People love using him, he's very useful in numerous situations and many people , myself included, might quit Warframe if he gets destroyed. He's the truest "ninja frame" in the game after all.

In the meanwhile, there's tons of frames that nobody plays anymore. Hydroid, Oberon, Zephyr, Limbo, the list goes on... Why not fix those instead of screwing the frames that actually work and that people enjoy using ?

But i hear it's about balance... Please, balance in a game with Tonkor, Sonicor, Synoid Simulor and Mirage, a game where Nova can prime the whole map and make them blow up, when excal can blind the whole map and turret them with exalted blade, where frost can freeze and debuff armor from everyone, where ember bascially has an active bladestorm that doesn't even have to be aimed and can kill the whole map with zero effort... Yet Ash gets the bad press because he's popular.

A lot of these are rather.. exaggerated and they are in fact reworking Limbo, they've said as much. Repeating what Chipputer said, at least some of it, Ash has become popular because he's the right mix of easy, edgy, and powerful to appeal to a large group. Meanwhile he's become kind of infamous in sorties as exactly what you don't want in your party in a lot of situations but so many people use him anyway.

45 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

 

If the list goes on then why don't you keep typing? There are plenty of people that use each of those frames. I find it odd that you don't mention Banshee, who is literally the least played frame in the game, but you'll mention Oberon and Zephyr, two frames that people pull out quite often for specific situations.

Take a few minutes and ask yourself why Ash is the most popular. If it's, "he's a ninja frame," then you're not looking at the bigger picture. It's because it's easy to stand in one spot and nuke the entire map from a safe distance.

As someone who used to main Banshee, she's a really underrated frame who needs some love, she's just not easy to play, and a lot of people don't like how subtle her abilities are and how squishy she is.

As to Ash being popular, I think part of it is because he's easymode for challenging content and the other half of it is people are drawn to his stereotypical hollywood Ninja "badass" thing going for him.

Edited August 13, 2016 by Eldritchkitty

[Zzz-Somnus-zzZ]

Well I do agree with how Ash's Bladestorm should have the choice to cancel ability upon demand.

But I still believe that if majority of the players are salty over having to compete with him for affinity, you'll need to nerf Ember's WoF(make it a permanent burn casting skill with little dmg), Equinox's Maim (reduce dmg) and Frost's Avalanche(make it a petrify skill instead of an instant whiteout killing everything in it)

Besides, Ash could easily still contribute to Radiation Sorties even if he didn't use Bladestorm. Build his 1 for dmg and at max energy efficiency, he can spam it to bleed the mobs to death without hitting friendlies. Teleport to mobs further away if shuriken is out of range. Smokescreen to avoid being targeted. Bladestorm is just another "Oh crap!" button should the team need it. Besides, you could have brought any other frame for such a sortie to avoid having this happen. Limbo's cataclysm helps you keep the target from being attacked too.

 

[Nox_Terminus]

1 hour ago, Black-chameleon said:

But I still believe that if majority of the players are salty over having to compete with him for affinity, you'll need to nerf Ember's WoF(make it a permanent burn casting skill with little dmg), Equinox's Maim (reduce dmg) and Frost's Avalanche(make it a petrify skill instead of an instant whiteout killing everything in it)

WoF - Deals Heat damage through eruptions at 2-4.5 points within range every second, these points are randomly generated and do not always hit enemies, meaning its damage output is not consistent. Heat damage does not bypass armor, and Ember is vulnerable for the duration. Toggled ability. (Apple)

Maim - Deals slash damage once per target in range, and cannot deal additional damage to the same target unless you dispel and recast it. The damage bypasses armor but Equinox is vulnerable for the duration. The nuke effect from dispelling the ability does not hit every enemy in range, and the damage is not consistent. Toggled ability. (Apple)

Avalanche - Freezes enemies in range and deals a fair amount of cold damage to targets, which may not kill them outright. Cold damage does not bypass armor, and Frost is vulnerable during the cast. Casted ability. (Orange)

Bladestorm - Hits up to 18 targets in range, dealing finishing damage and stunning them for the duration. Slash damage bypasses armor, and due to Ash's passive his bleed procs deal extra damage. Ash is not vulnerable for the duration. Damage benefits from Steel charge and combo multiplier. Casted Ability. (Orange)

Maximized for Power Strength

WoF deals 5382 Heat damage per eruption. This damage does not bypass armor. Damage can be improved if you use Accelerant, which will grant a 7.47 damage multiplier against enemies affected by Accelerant. 40203 Heat damage per target, however remember that WoF does not consistently hit targets, and Heat damage does not bypass armor. Additionally a maximized power strength build hampers the effective range of WoF, as you'll have to either throw out survivability mods or power efficiency mods, to counteract Blind Rage, meaning you'll have to sacrifice a lot to deal this degree of damage. Its not a very logical idea unless you're playing defense, and even then the enemies will have to get rather close. WoF might need a bit more tampering to get it as balanced as possible, but its hardly the most broken ability. {Energy required 155 +(5.25 x seconds)}

Maim deals 1806 Bleed damage per target. This damage bypasses armor. Damage can be improved if you use the Peaceful Provocation augment to 1961. This damage requires the Pacify & Provoke ability to be active. {Energy required 15.5 +(4.65 x abilities cast) +77.5 +(6.125 x seconds)}

Avalanche deals 5966 Cold damage per target. This damage does not bypass armor. {Energy required 155.}

Bladestorm deals 5980 Bleed damage on the initial hit, and 14651 Bleed damage per attack. This damage bypasses armor. You can further increase the damage output by using a body count melee weapon with high attack speed to stack combo counter throughout the mission. {Energy required 155.}

Could you tell me why you use poor comparisons? Affinity stealing isn't the problem with Bladestorm.

Edited August 13, 2016 by Nox_Terminus
corrections

[Zzz-Somnus-zzZ]

A well built maxed forma-ed tonkor deals arnd 20dmg with a 87.5% crit chance amting to about 30k dmg per sec assuming all hits count.

A maxed synoid does arnd 3k per shot with maxed split chamber and upon firing a stack (5rnds in 2secs) and averages out to be 7k dmg per sec

Maim can be recasted multiple times to extend bleed duration and burst dmg after stacking. Needs a cap on dmg?

Avalanche removes up to 60% of enemy armor upon cast and deals ~5k dmg and slows the enemies down.

According to your calculations, bladestorm averages out to be 20k for the entire animation which with maxed fury is 8k dmg per sec on initial hit and 2.1k bleed dmg/sec after initial hit.

There are many pointers u missed out and dmg on the whole is not the only indicator of whether an ability is too be nerfed. WoF and Maim are active as long as the ability remains toggled and basically u conveniently left out wep dmg that could been included in the calculation of dmg per sec.

While Bladestorm is easily spammable, its hardly the only skill that is so. 20k dmg per target for Ember's WoF is more than enuf to wipe out entire hordes unless u're playing survival solo at high levels and Frost is rather invulnerable when in his snow globe. Equinox is able to stun multiple targets with maim and recasting it upon expiry of the slash status keeps mobs occupied while she heals. 

The problem I see for bladestorm is that its not exactly interactive...melee slideshow gets boring after a while, lame video content when the animation doesn't even play out correctly and overly speeded up slideshow with mods. And no, atk speed on weps don't affect bladestorm. Besides, a high enough aoe  and power str for ember and Ash won't have targets to aim at. Plus, there exists multiple faults with the skill such as not allowing for allies to dmg known target (invul frames). 

But to me, this isn't a nerf. Its to fix what's broken with it. (not exactly a bane to bladestorm)

Please learn to target the right points in my argument before you start showing off thx.

1 hour ago, Nox_Terminus said:

Affinity stealing isn't the problem with Bladestorm.

Then what is? All you showed me were merely dmg calculations that showed how Bladestorm is vastly superior on initial hit.

I'll be fine with nerfing its dmg TBH, just needed an invul frame for when teammates using squishier frames need help to take down the tankier venomous eximus units. Already many have forsaken the role of a valkyr hysteria nurse in sorties. 

[Nox_Terminus]

2 hours ago, Black-chameleon said:

A well built maxed forma-ed tonkor deals arnd 20dmg with a 87.5% crit chance amting to about 30k dmg per sec assuming all hits count. Apples & Oranges argument

A maxed synoid does arnd 3k per shot with maxed split chamber and upon firing a stack (5rnds in 2secs) and averages out to be 7k dmg per sec. Tonkor and Synoid Simulor are probably going to get nerfed, so I'm not sure what the point of bringing this up provides. Also multi-shot is going to get reworked eventually, the dev's have talked about it.

Maim can be recasted multiple times to extend bleed duration and burst dmg after stacking. Needs a cap on dmg? Even at max power strength Maim still wouldn't do nearly the same damage as Bladestorm after 4 casts, but hey somehow that's equivalent. (77.5 x 4) +(6.125 x seconds active) +(4.65 x4) is going to cost a lot more than Bladestorm. Maim isn't something you spam, that's a waste of energy, its meant to be an area of denial CC to stun enemies, which leaves them open to allies, or makes it easier to move through an area, or revive an ally.

Avalanche removes up to 60% of enemy armor upon cast and deals ~5k dmg and slows the enemies down. Avalanche only removes some armor, it doesn't outright ignore it. Also avalanche is for CC and team support more-so than "kill all the things". He's also vulnerable for the cast, which is fairly long at 2.4 seconds (0.75 second delay on recasting). If you're spamming this, you're doing it wrong.

According to your calculations, bladestorm averages out to be 20k for the entire animation which with maxed fury is 8k dmg per sec on initial hit and 2.1k bleed dmg/sec after initial hit. Bladestorm deals 5980 damage on the initial hit, and 14651 for each attack made against a target. Reading comprehension please.

There are many pointers u missed out and dmg on the whole is not the only indicator of whether an ability is too be nerfed. WoF and Maim are active as long as the ability remains toggled and basically u conveniently left out wep dmg that could been included in the calculation of dmg per sec. WoF and Maim at max power strength drain energy faster than even maxed Zenurik can replenish, even more-so because Ember would have to keep casting Accelerant, and Equinox would have to maintain Pacify & Provoke on top of Maim. They're also both vulnerable to damage whilst their abilities are active.

While Bladestorm is easily spammable, its hardly the only skill that is so. 20k dmg per target for Ember's WoF is more than enuf to wipe out entire hordes unless u're playing survival solo at high levels and Frost is rather invulnerable when in his snow globe. Equinox is able to stun multiple targets with maim and recasting it upon expiry of the slash status keeps mobs occupied while she heals. I've explained this several times now, WoF doesn't automatically target enemies, it generates randomly within the cast radius, which is either fairly close, or far if you go for a wide range CC build (which can easily waste time erupting the ground 20 feet away from any enemies). For it to deal exceptionally high damage accelerant has to be currently affecting the target. Meaning it isn't something you can "just spam". Also as usual you ignore the fact that WoF doesn't ignore armor, which means it does not scale nearly as well as Bladestorm.

The problem I see for bladestorm is that its not exactly interactive...melee slideshow gets boring after a while, lame video content when the animation doesn't even play out correctly and overly speeded up slideshow with mods. And no, atk speed on weps don't affect bladestorm. Besides, a high enough aoe  and power str for ember and Ash won't have targets to aim at. Plus, there exists multiple faults with the skill such as not allowing for allies to dmg known target (invul frames). 

But to me, this isn't a nerf. Its to fix what's broken with it. (not exactly a bane to bladestorm)

Please learn to target the right points in my argument before you start showing off thx. Im not showing off, Im using facts rather than just opinion.

Then what is? All you showed me were merely dmg calculations that showed how Bladestorm is vastly superior on initial hit. Superior range, superior damage, and invulnerability. "It's all there, black and white, clear as crystal!"

I'll be fine with nerfing its dmg TBH, just needed an invul frame for when teammates using squishier frames need help to take down the tankier venomous eximus units. Already many have forsaken the role of a valkyr hysteria nurse in sorties. Hysteria was nerfed because it could be maintained nigh indefinitely, being invincible forever is counterproductive in a game involving combat.

To put it simply, Bladestorm requires a rework because it does not fall in line with the rest of the abilities of its type. High damage is fine, but this is high damage which also bypasses armor, and doesn't end until you have killed all marked targets. Keep in mind I don't hate Ash, he's one of the cooler designs in the game, but I'm tired of going into a mission just to see people spam Bladestorm across the map. What about Shuriken? Smoke? Teleport? Anything?

When a single ability is the only thing people use when using a frame, something is clearly wrong. Inaros is a good example, people only use 4, and then just 1, because his 2 and 3 scale about as well as a beached whale trying to climb stairs.

Ember's kit requires two abilities in-sync to deal the damage everyone whines about.

Equinox requires two abilities, in which one also improves allied power strength within range.

Frost's kit is all about denying the enemy, through either slows, freezes, or solid defenses.

Ember, Equinox, and Frost all grant allies something in return for their abilities. Using WoF or Maim as example as to why Bladestorm shouldn't be reworked is quite silly. Bladestorm offers basically nothing to allies. There is no interaction, no benefit. Its just sit and wait for the slideshow to end, the slideshow people keep showing you for the entire mission. Even if I were watching my favorite movie, I wouldn't want to see it 50 times in a row.

[_Iye]

On ‎8‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 9:43 PM, Eldritchkitty said:

An in game flavor blurb =/= actual gameplay, all of Frost's powers are good for slowing down enemies in high level play not killing them. That he has to use guns for.

I do and always prefer skill based playing rather than relying on frame powers, I love to make my weapons powerful (Dual Kamas, Rakta Cernos, Dread, Nikana, War etc.) as much as possible. We are talking about frame powers and playstyles which come to frost now. I have 2 builds for frost one with 200+ strength and another is a all round balanced build with extra armor and power duration. Even after reading your comment I gave another look on him and revised the modding. Just wanna repeat one last thing, even its officially announced what LOTUS says about Frost that he is good for both styles, so its not fair for us to fix him into one specific style if we dont know how to go front and hold back as needed. Take care.

[_Iye]

On ‎8‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 0:59 AM, Mr._Clean said:

Frost is my favorite frame too. :) And let's also not forget that Bladestorm deals FINISHER damage that's one of my major quips with it.

Glad to know that we have a similarity in taste of frames ;)

And a request, please stop having 'quips' with frames as the thing I fear is whichever frame got retouched have completely been nerfed in the name of rework to make progress of establishing a fully different playstyle of Warframe which has already begun. I often encounter BS spammer tenno and trust dont have that much problem killing things, even yesterday I killed several enemies targeted and under processing of ASH's BS with my Rakta Cernos while doing hieracon and fissures. Dont get salty here with the frames.

Play the game, Enjoy the game & Let others enjoy the same while it's still playable.

Apologies of any of my words made any of you feel offended but I tried express my feelings here, thats all.

[(XBOX)BOBIWAN86]

....Yknow, here's the thing about ash everybody demanding a nerf doesn't seem to realize in any form. Even if you stack just power strength and efficiency w/ a carrier and BS, it falls flat on it's face when things really start scaling, and you start taking minutes to kill things like ancients, to the point you end up begging your team mates to KILL that ancient. Why I can say as fact him denying the team damage on foes is utter bullcrap. Add a gas syndicate explosion weapon, and it scales a bit further, but even then - tanky things won't die. As an immediate example at even the lower end, Battlysts take so long to kill with BS, you actually end up able to fire your weapon's current clip at them during blade storm, resetting their damage resists so that blade storm can do anything to them.

Edited August 13, 2016 by (XB1)BOBIWAN86

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

The op of this thread was awesome to read

I just want to drop an idea and run, no arguments for me today

I have a problem with Ashes smokescreen/smoke bomb ability making him completely invisible. Not that it isn't appreciated, but by definition of the ability (as he is obscured from vision by smoke) I would imagine it would work more like mirages sun/shade ability (sorry I sound like such a noob, these are frames I don't play often)

You would be completely invisible as long as you were :

1) unseen by enemies before casting the ability

2) in the shadows

Any other time you are just hazy and harder to target~it would be nice if lights were destroyable with weapons like they were with overload...but my changes to Ashes invisibility can be ignored, the important part is this:

Casting smoke bomb(?) should create an area of effect on the map that can be teleported to...not for any specific reason but that I don't like only being able to teleport to enemies. It may not make sense to just not always teleport anywhere you wish, but I'm not to invested in any of this really

Then, after casting smoke bomb, while invisible, using teleport on enemies or the previous cast area will always proc the stun and smoke cloud 

And finally, casting shuriken while in the smoke will stun enemies got by it for a short period of time

All right, later

Edited August 13, 2016 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO
Edit