The sudden spark of interest to update excalibur prime & other older primes!

[Stormdragon]

I like the simple look of most early frames, and also I'd honestly prefer DE focusing on newer content over visually reworking the older stuff. 

About Excalibur Prime, since there are contracts and stuff placed as the reason why it won't come back, couldn't redesign him be taken as a contract break? (Not sure how to tell it) I mean, in the same way as the contract would be broken if he came back, changing his design might be taken as a bait and switch, since he was obtainable only through payment, advertised as a one time exclusive and using his current design in every single ad, opening space to some knee jerk reactions against DE (I was advertised this, now it got changed to this other thing). Also, I'd like to point how sad Steve looked on the prime time (the one where he spoke about bringimg back the old vandals) because of being unable to bring back founder items due to the promise they did, so I guess he doesn't want one of the biggest community's division to become a scar by making excal prime visually more appealing while the biggest majority will never be able to get it.

[DiBBz]

50 minutes ago, -----LegioN----- said:

I like the simple look of most early frames, and also I'd honestly prefer DE focusing on newer content over visually reworking the older stuff. 

About Excalibur Prime, since there are contracts and stuff placed as the reason why it won't come back, couldn't redesign him be taken as a contract break? (Not sure how to tell it) I mean, in the same way as the contract would be broken if he came back, changing his design might be taken as a bait and switch, since he was obtainable only through payment, advertised as a one time exclusive and using his current design in every single ad, opening space to some knee jerk reactions against DE (I was advertised this, now it got changed to this other thing). Also, I'd like to point how sad Steve looked on the prime time (the one where he spoke about bringimg back the old vandals) because of being unable to bring back founder items due to the promise they did, so I guess he doesn't want one of the biggest community's division to become a scar by making excal prime visually more appealing while the biggest majority will never be able to get it.

contract ???

 

what contract.. there is no contract binding DE and the people that bought founders packs that say if the pack contents are changed in any way shape or forum they are thus subject to legal action etc etc etc

 

besides if we are going down this route. then wouldn't that mean that when excal prime got his PBR treatment. that could also be classed as breach of contract ?

 

considering it introduced many detailed changes and some tweaks to his overall style!

 

they are free to update and change appearances if they like for the founder packages or any packages really. they just cant change the contents provided to the user. (IE: subtracted extra platinum / replacing weapon with new one etc etc)

 

:EDIT:

also the whole vandal discussion is completely different. it was offered to the entirety of the CBT and OBT community for those that where available at the time to claim it for 1 credit

meanwhile founder packs where a so to speak a kick starter (exclusive pre-order) program for those that where able to help with development.

steve is honestly over analyzing the situation. judging by the thread they have on the forums about bringing vandals back. the overall reception is positive if not majority are wanting it to be brought back including myself! people old and new want the vandal lato / braton to be brought back for current players all to enjoy.

 

however there is a difference about bringing previous items back and updating appearances to items that we exclusively got in the past. if people seen that the braton vandal got updated im sure no one would bat an eye really.

if they updated excal prime they could offer a solution to offer a skin to appeal bother parties if a mix reaction came to be

Edited August 26, 2016 by DiBBz

[Stormdragon]

1 hour ago, DiBBz said:

contract ???

 

what contract.. there is no contract binding DE and the people that bought founders packs that say if the pack contents are changed in any way shape or forum they are thus subject to legal action etc etc etc

 

besides if we are going down this route. then wouldn't that mean that when excal prime got his PBR treatment. that could also be classed as breach of contract ?

So, the contract is a lie? Isn't that contract the main reason why people keep saying Devs can't bring him back?

1 hour ago, DiBBz said:

besides if we are going down this route. then wouldn't that mean that when excal prime got his PBR treatment. that could also be classed as breach of contract ?

considering it introduced many detailed changes and some tweaks to his overall style!

 Afaik, even with the pbr excal prime still looking like advertised, so whatever changes done there are barely noticeable (otherwise some players wouldn't be asking for a redesign)

While the whole "upgrade old primes' design to the new visual" thing refers to big changes instead, like adding, dunno a gold spine, maybe some shoulder and chest plates or whatever, changing the base appearance and maybe even the concept.

1 hour ago, DiBBz said:

they are free to update and chance appearances if they like for the founder packages or any packages really. they just cant change the contents provided to the user. (IE: subtracted extra platinum / replacing weapon with new one etc etc)

Not sure about founders, but I'm sure they can, like they did with the burston, for example. Anyways, due to how founder items have been treated all this time, and to how tiresome may be hearing a community asking for something to come back and saying "no" over and over again, making that one unreachable thing more appealing would only make the "bring it back" crowd arise once again. And stronger now that DE has been bringing back any trace of exclusivity (event weappns in sorties, old PA accessories in prime vault) of everyone else, leaving founders as the only group of players with something that no one else can get.

Try looking at it from a community management view, not from a player's one.

[Evanescent]

Frost prime jsut needs some snazzy blinged out boots with spikes and shiz to finish him up. Like his sleek simple look, especially from the back.

[Lancars]

I would love to see a frost prime remodel to look more primey.

Also change it so the shoulder armor emits the frost vapor not him.

Edited August 26, 2016 by Lancars

[DiBBz]

11 hours ago, -----LegioN----- said:

So, the contract is a lie? Isn't that contract the main reason why people keep saying Devs can't bring him back?

afaik its just a legal agreement and partly that they keep their part in respecting the programs intentions. its like exclusive console pre-orders. except you get instant access to it and the game never dies.

its purely trust tho i think. if DE brought back founders there would be an out roar overall which brakes trust that the community have with the developer and the people that helped popularize/fund the game at a time!

11 hours ago, -----LegioN----- said:

Afaik, even with the pbr excal prime still looking like advertised, so whatever changes done there are barely noticeable (otherwise some players wouldn't be asking for a redesign)

While the whole "upgrade old primes' design to the new visual" thing refers to big changes instead, like adding, dunno a gold spine, maybe some shoulder and chest plates or whatever, changing the base appearance and maybe even the concept.

you may have not noticed this but the arms and legs are completely different and the same goes with his back. its more... Extrapolated in a sense and more spikier. and some minor touch ups have been done on his helmet, neck, lower back shoulders!

11 hours ago, -----LegioN----- said:

Not sure about founders, but I'm sure they can, like they did with the burston, for example. Anyways, due to how founder items have been treated all this time, and to how tiresome may be hearing a community asking for something to come back and saying "no" over and over again, making that one unreachable thing more appealing would only make the "bring it back" crowd arise once again. And stronger now that DE has been bringing back any trace of exclusivity (event weappns in sorties, old PA accessories in prime vault) of everyone else, leaving founders as the only group of players with something that no one else can get.

Try looking at it from a community management view, not from a player's one.

ever since reading that and check im honestly surprised that the burson got a updated look and it looks pretty good as well :D thx for that info

but again that then comes back around to the braton vandal debate. if the braton along with vandal got a update people would really care at that point. and thats still an un-obtainable thing! but if the same thing happens to a prime OOHH! no it must come back.

we are human afterall. they see shiny they want it badly!

 

this isnt more exactly about just excalibur prime getting updated. its about over all, all older primes getting updated to a standard that the primes are set to as of right now!

so if frost / ember / mag etc etc got updated it posses no problem but when you enter excal prime into the mix it "OOHH NO thats not gonna happen" to those that are founders .?

Edited August 26, 2016 by DiBBz
fixing typo's also added better clarification

[Stormdragon]

51 minutes ago, DiBBz said:

afaik its just a legal agreement and partly that they keep their part in respecting the programs intentions. its like exclusive console pre-orders. except you get instant access to it and the game never dies.

its purely trust tho i think. if DE brought back founders there would be an out roar overall which brakes trust that the community have with the developr and the people that helped popularize/fund the game at a time!

you may have not noticed this but the arms and legs are completely different same with the back of the helmet as well as slight touch ups on the neck / entire back of the warframe. so technically it did get a little revamp!

ever since reading that and check im honestly surprised that the burson got a updated look and it looks pretty good as well :D thx for that info

but again that then comes back around to the braton vandal debate. if the braton along with vandal got a update people would really care at that point. and thats still an un-obtainable thing! but if the same thing happens to a prime OOHH! no it must come back.

we are human afterall. they see shiny they want it badly!

 

this isnt more exactly about just excalibur prime getting updated. its about over all, all older primes getting updated to a standard that the primes are set to as of right now!

so if frost / ember / mag etc etc got updated it posses no problem but when you enter excal prime into the mix it "OOHH NO thats not gonna happen" to those that are founders .?

Since I don't own excal prime, I can't see it's details, it's rare finding one in game and they are usually moving a lot, and screenshots aren't always good enough to appreciate his details, so for me it's hard to see what changes Excal prime has gone through.

There are 3 reasons why I personally wouldn't like older primes to get a visual overhaul.

1) Like you pointed, we're human, improve something and people will start caring. Improve one of the older primes, and many players, mostly newer ones without it will most likely start asking for it to be unvaulted since all of the ones "in need" of a visual upgrade are currently unobtainable. Upgrade one, and people will start asking for more frames to be tweaked, founders obviously will ask for the same, and if the treatment is given then many players will go back to care about not being able to get Excalibur Prime. It's like a snowball, starts with a small request and ends up with people demanding more and more.

2) The game is constantly evolving (long live warframe), and it might get to a time where even the current primes will look outdated compared with whatever designs are done in the future, so in order to keep every single prime up to date, DE should be constantly upgrading the older ones. I mean, if we look back to older and simpler frames, we're also taking a look back at warframe's history, how it started with something small and simple that started growing and getting more complex as time went on.

3) Even tough I'm just a player like all of us, and I know some might agree while others will disagree, I actually like their looks.

Edited August 26, 2016 by -----LegioN-----
typos

[eena_chan]

afaik DE has no plans on going back and redesigning primes, fun fact: excal primes pbr notes are on the ps4 build despite not beign there

[DiBBz]

18 minutes ago, -----LegioN----- said:

Since I don't own excal prime, I can't see it's details, it's rare finding one in game and they are usually moving a lot, and screenshots aren't always good enough to appreciate his details, so for me it's hard to see what changes Excal prime has gone through.

There are 3 reasons why I personally wouldn't like older primes to get a visual overhaul.

1) Like you pointed, we're human, improve something and people will start caring. Improve one of the older primes, and many players, mostly newer ones without it will most likely start asking for it to be unvaulted since all of the ones "in need" of a visual upgrade are currently unobtainable. Upgrade one, and people will start asking for more frames to be tweaked, founders obviously will ask for the same, and if the treatment is given then many players will go back to care about not being able to get Excalibur Prime. It's like a snowball, starts with a small request and ends up with people demanding more and more.

2) The game is constantly evolving (long live warframe), and it might get to a time where even the current primes will look outdated compared with whatever designs are done in the future, so in order to keep every single prime up to date, DE should be constantly upgrading the older ones. I mean, if we look back to older and simpler frames, we're also taking a look back at warframe's history, how it started with something small and simple that started growing and getting more complex as time went on.

3) Even tough I'm just a player like all of us, and I know some might agree while others will disagree, I actually like their looks.

well said! :)

 

but a thing to point out. which contradicts what you are saying

the game is evolving yes. but that also means the improvement of past and present features / designs / models etc!

there is not a thing in warframe at this point (besides old primes) that remains the same as it used to be when it first launched. thats why i think this topic keeps popping up everyone now and then because it might be time for DE to say. right we have seen yous are wanting updated primes (Specifically the older ones) we have our art team and mynki offering inspiration to get new revamped designs to you" 

i think we all know at this point that the game is all about the 2.0 updates to things. and hopefully for those that have been striving so long for this they get the update they are looking for.

i imagined something like this will happen next year somewhere within the summer of 2017 at best cause the war within is still being developed and they have some other stuff planned after it releases so as far as im aware. when things start settling down and they have more freedom to work they can think of all this stuff and ask questions / feedback from the community if need be!

[Eidolon_Slayer]

Well, he's not broke so...

[Z3GR4M]

I would say yes and no, the 3 frames that could use a touch up are Excal, Frost, and Mag P. in my opinion as DE has come a long was since then, it would be nice, but I dont think it is necessarily a priority by any means.

[Domesticon]

Excalibur, Frost and Mag definitely need an upgrade to their Prime counterparts, Excalibur would be quite easy, just the male version of Nyx Prime, as for Frost and Mag, that's more up to DE, and what they would want to do with it. 

[TheVigilant]

Yeah the initial Prime Trio could use a model upgrade, in especial Frost P since you take out his helmet and you can´t tell the difference with a normal Frost.

It could be done two ways witha outcome that everyone could be happy about:

1) Dev redesign, the Art team redo the models (could take a lot of time) or 2) Let the Tenno Gen Artists Redo the models in a contest like fashion, winner takes a prize and credit in the new design (can be quicker but, maybe not the ideal since it is not dev developed, art style wise).

The Outcome:

When the New Meshes are released instead of replacing the current ones, Baro could sell a BP (He brings the every visit like Inaros quest) that allows you to craft the new mesh and equip it ONLY on the Prime variant as an Auxiliary (Like Nekros/Valkyr Mortos/Binds) so it will be Inmortal/Tennogen skin friendly. 

With this everyone could be happy, the ones who likes the current models and the ones who wants something new, also Lore-friendly since Baro is a Void scavenger.

Edited August 26, 2016 by TheVigilant

[Lost_Cartographer]

The initial trio don't need a model upgrade so much as new attachments.  Everyone would do well to notice that the bulk of the "primage" for newer primes is in the meaty bits attached to the base warframe model.  

Volt has new knee pads and flashier arm bands.  

Rhino has shoulder pads on top of his base shoulder pads, new hip attachments, and a dial screwed into his back.  

Nyx has a thick covering with blingage on her thighs and just below her chest (making her smallish boobs look smaller.)  There is also a covering over her back.

Saryn, believe it or not, has a new... everything.  The base model is still there, but everything that jutted off the base model was "attached" for both versions.

Ash's arm bands were completely replaced, and they threw on something bulky enough over his hips to hide the fins/spikes.

 

So it's not like an actual remodel is necessary for the original trio, just throwing on some bits with metallic textures would suffice.  That would take considerably less time to pull off.

 

P.S.  With regards to that little Excal P debate going on earlier - we signed the ToS before paying for Excal P.  DE maintains the right to turn him into a rolling pin if they so desired.

Edited August 26, 2016 by Littleman88

[Cloud]

I would love some little change for Frost Prime design. As many said , the helmet is the only noticeable element who changes from his vanilla version.

As for Exca Prime and Founder Pack items. I've no interest at all to see any difference or change in items which only a really small portion of the community has. This would only make lose time and resources which instead could be used for something which benefits the whole community.

[Valiant]

Frost Prime definitely needs an update on his body.

Hoping the deluxe is awesome enough to dull the pain but he still needs more than just his helmet. 

I'd say Ember is fine is. Least she has some variation on her apart from just her helmet. 

Edited August 26, 2016 by Naith

[TheVigilant]

1 hour ago, Littleman88 said:

The initial trio don't need a model upgrade so much as new attachments.  Everyone would do well to notice that the bulk of the "primage" for newer primes is in the meaty bits attached to the base warframe model.  

Volt has new knee pads and flashier arm bands.  

Rhino has shoulder pads on top of his base shoulder pads, new hip attachments, and a dial screwed into his back.  

Nyx has a thick covering with blingage on her thighs and just below her chest (making her smallish boobs look smaller.)  There is also a covering over her back.

Saryn, believe it or not, has a new... everything.  The base model is still there, but everything that jutted off the base model was "attached" for both versions.

Ash's arm bands were completely replaced, and they threw on something bulky enough over his hips to hide the fins/spikes.

 

So it's not like an actual remodel is necessary for the original trio, just throwing on some bits with metallic textures would suffice.  That would take considerably less time to pull off.

 

P.S.  With regards to that little Excal P debate going on earlier - we signed the ToS before paying for Excal P.  DE maintains the right to turn him into a rolling pin if they so desired.

Attachments or not that means a complete new mesh, it has the base but a new one on top of the current must be made and fuse in one model in order to be displayed in the game. That was a thing that I've learned with doing tennogen stuff, it's not that simple. 

That or replace the armor slots on the model with a unique armor, but that would be heavily fashion frame unfriendly. 

Edited August 26, 2016 by TheVigilant

[DiBBz]

4 hours ago, LordCloud00 said:

I would love some little change for Frost Prime design. As many said , the helmet is the only noticeable element who changes from his vanilla version.

As for Exca Prime and Founder Pack items. I've no interest at all to see any difference or change in items which only a really small portion of the community has. This would only make lose time and resources which instead could be used for something which benefits the whole community.

so excal prime only diverts resources ? that makes utterly no sense!

 

what makes you think that frost / mag etc etc dont all ready divert more resources compared to excal prime ? 

 

doesn't sound reasonable does it... you want everything else but founder stuff to be updated to a standard of quality! and you pin the blame on "It diverts resources" when it most likely takes none if they are all ready planning to do re-designs. so there is no problems!

[VeeniXx]

I like Excalibur's look, simple but cool. They should however give some attention to skins that still look toyish (proto armor for excample). And with the Umbra versions that are coming, you will get new looks.

[Cloud]

8 minutes ago, DiBBz said:

so excal prime only diverts resources ? that makes utterly no sense!

 

what makes you think that frost / mag etc etc dont all ready divert more resources compared to excal prime ? 

 

doesn't sound reasonable does it... you want everything else but founder stuff to be updated to a standard of quality! and you pin the blame on "It diverts resources" when it most likely takes none if they are all ready planning to do re-designs. so there is no problems!

It takes resources , even if low , it does. I prefer they change something which could benefits the whole community instead of a limited group. Moreover in few time Umbra Excalibur will be out, so there is not any real reason to invest resources on an old char. You will get a totaly new appeal with all the others.

[DiBBz]

13 minutes ago, LordCloud00 said:

It takes resources , even if low , it does. I prefer they change something which could benefits the whole community instead of a limited group. Moreover in few time Umbra Excalibur will be out, so there is not any real reason to invest resources on an old char. You will get a totaly new appeal with all the others.

now your contradicting yourself... the whole community have frost prime and mag prime you know so they are no different to excal prime.

 

youre thinking of this in a very narrow and liner way. so just because excal umbra is coming somewhat next year that all of a sudden means that excal prime should just be left to rot ?

 

really not thinking open minded are you. because the way im reading it, it almost comes of as sort of a selfish approach!

 

you realize adding extra primes at this point doesn't divert more resources right. they have a large art and modeling team so i dont see how adding 1 more into the mix instantly means diverting more resources, as if DE is honestly at that brink where they need to micro manage where and how resources are used within the company. 

[Cloud]

31 minutes ago, DiBBz said:

now your contradicting yourself... the whole community have frost prime and mag prime you know so they are no different to excal prime.

 

youre thinking of this in a very narrow and liner way. so just because excal umbra is coming somewhat next year that all of a sudden means that excal prime should just be left to rot ?

 

really not thinking open minded are you. because the way im reading it, it almost comes of as sort of a selfish approach!

 

you realize adding extra primes at this point doesn't divert more resources right. they have a large art and modeling team so i dont see how adding 1 more into the mix instantly means diverting more resources, as if DE is honestly at that brink where they need to micro manage where and how resources are used within the company. 

I'm not contradicting in any way. 

"the whole community have frost prime and mag prime , you know they are no different to exca prime"

Yes they are lol, they are not exclusive and people can get it by farm or trade.

Maybe I'm narrow mind but me and many others could not care less for items which are precluded to us. If De should spend time to adjust or improve visual, exca prime should be the last one to consider since he covers the interest of an extremely limited group of the community, while other frames cover the interest of the whole community , founders included.

Moreover Excalibur will get a visual update with umbra as I said before, which in few words will give an upgraded "exca prime" to the whole community. We don't know if this trend will continue and will cover other frames, maybe we will get only Umbra Excalibur and nothing more.

You have no reason to ask for an update of an old exclusive char, when you will get a public  updated version of him in little time. Except if you are one of those special snowflake guy who dying to show his "exclusive" loadout lol

[DiBBz]

2 hours ago, LordCloud00 said:

I'm not contradicting in any way. 

"the whole community have frost prime and mag prime , you know they are no different to exca prime"

Yes they are lol, they are not exclusive and people can get it by farm or trade.

Maybe I'm narrow mind but me and many others could not care less for items which are precluded to us. If De should spend time to adjust or improve visual, exca prime should be the last one to consider since he covers the interest of an extremely limited group of the community, while other frames cover the interest of the whole community , founders included.

Moreover Excalibur will get a visual update with umbra as I said before, which in few words will give an upgraded "exca prime" to the whole community. We don't know if this trend will continue and will cover other frames, maybe we will get only Umbra Excalibur and nothing more.

You have no reason to ask for an update of an old exclusive char, when you will get a public  updated version of him in little time. Except if you are one of those special snowflake guy who dying to show his "exclusive" loadout lol

and you have proof that the whole community have frost and mag ? even tho they are vaulted now so clearly the whole community does not have them! they where available for a period of time then brought back and then locked away again. more people have joined than those that actually managed to farm the pieces with the old void system!

 

and with the 1.2k + people in recruitment chat when asking for a frost etc you only get about 4-6 replies. it doesn't add up!

 

your thinking of this as if its the Apocalypse of resources. when really thats not the case what so ever!

 

maybe when umbra does come along everything gets updated to a higher standard.. who really knows at this point and if that will actually happen. but for all we know a couple agree that some older primes need to be updated!

 

also im not asking. last i check this is a thread purely for conversation and feedback on what people would like done! it seems to be tho that you have a complete hatred for founder stuff to the point you dont give a dam when really this thread was served to be more of a inspiration to DE to update those outdated areas (stuff) to a more enjoyable and high quality fidelity that the development team has shown to pump out over the years!

 

care what you may about founder stuff like excal prime and what not but that is still apart of the game. something which is severly lacking in appearance department. but just because umbra excal comes does not mean there is no reason to update excal prime. infact there is more of an incentive to do so. considering it ties in with lore etc

Edited August 26, 2016 by DiBBz
quick edit and better clarification

[IamRageypoo]

18 hours ago, PinkTentacles said:

I think they should update Mag Prime's helm...

I second this.

As for excal prime, I think he looks very sleek in his simplicity, his frame really stands out whenever I see it. Thew new frame designs are neat, but their vanilla look is somewhat over the top at times or a jumbled together mess. 

I wish I had known about this game when it first came out, I would play excal so much more if I had the prime version. 

[Sir_Alex_Traffo]

I honestly feel like Excalibur Prime should stay the way he is. 

While I do feel like it's design is too simple and flat, especially compared to newer Prime frames, his look is also a portrait of the old days, it's iconic. 

If a poll was created, I'd vote against a look upgrade.