Dev Stream 80: Carrier Changes feedback thread [Megathread]

[Fukushu]

The only reason I ever wanted Vacuum on my Diriga is for when I'm in the Void, smash open a container behind a secret wall, see a mod through the wall with Animal Instinct, step on a pressure plate that has a chance to open the wall, and all I get is shot by a turret instead. I don't mind the loss of resources and credits behind walls like that, but a lost mod is a lost mod, so I'd happily put the Vacuum for mods on my Sentinel.

[ScorpioneITA]

Kavat buffs all the way.

[That1Cactus]

"We want universal Vacuum for our sentinels pls"

*DE considers universal Vacuum for sentinels.

"WTF DE WE DON'T WANT THAT."

[ComfyOlivia]

I like it. I'm just getting tired of this recent trend of the community asking for something broken to be balanced and then DE blowing it out of the water and making more residual issues that they don't bother to fix.

People ask for the niche of vacuum to be applied across the board so Carrier isn't the end all be all. So, what do they do? Decide more mandatory mods need to be added after claiming they wanted to fix the issue, and then make carrier useless for the majority of builds.

I won't panic until it's out, but if previous balances indicate anything, there's reason to be skeptical.

[Tizodd]

1 hour ago, Drufo said:

I do surprisingly well without using Carrier. The truth is that vacuum is totally not necessary. If you want it, you use it, otherwise you'll be fine the same.

On the contrary, I do notice quite a difference in the amount of loot and ammo I get when I don't use Carrier.  I also find myself enjoying the game less because I'm so preoccupied with trying to get loot I see on the mini-map.  If I'm using an ammo hungry weapon the difference is even more noticeable, especially with all the different types of ammo in the game.

I agree with you that Vacuum is not necessary however; whether Vacuum is necessary or not, is not my question to DE.  My question is: why does DE refuse to implement innate area looting when it's obviously important to a large portion of its playerbase?  Innate area looting, while not necessary to play the game, would have absolutley no negative affect on the game.  It would however, have the positive affect of making a lot of players happy.

[Tuxie]

2 minutes ago, That1Cactus said:

"We want universal Vacuum for our sentinels pls"

*DE considers universal Vacuum for sentinels.

"WTF DE WE DON'T WANT THAT."

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

3 minutes ago, bl4ckhunter said:

Honestly this change is not "THAT" bad, it just means that i'll have to catalize my carrier, sentinels have plenty of spare mod space so it's not that much of an issue unless you're one of those people that use sentinels for damage, the problem is that it solves absolutely nothing at all besides making carrier better.

If it's split up the way it said in the official devstream overview,

Health energy - They're big globs and spawn semi-rarely, no missing them. Not necessary.

Credits ammo - Credits I have no need for anymore but ammo it's hard to distinguish the different types in the middle of a firefight so that's a mid-priority for me.

And Endo, resources, misc.- This'll be the one I stick on all my sentinels. That's top priority.

[Fukushu]

Well, I happily accept our future of all Sentinels having the ability to use Vacuum. I don't really see the appeal of having one Sentinel do everything for you, but I always hated not having Vacuum to pick up a mod out of reach behind a secret wall that won't open. Give it some time and I'll be able to just pop the Mod Vacuum on my Diriga, and that won't be an issue any more.

[Sintag]

1 hour ago, SoulEaterReaper said:

but rather die when you go outside Frost's globe or your camping spot and get 1 hit killed? just to pickup air. haha nice plan.

If I'm being oneshotted, then either I'm too squishy (And as a support this rings true much harder) or we should've ran a long time ago.

 

And hard CC says hello.  Naramon says hi, as does Bastille, Irradiating Disarm, Vortex, Chaos, and Lantern.  Maybe Absorb, MAYBE, but mostly the aforementioned.

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

Honestly, 3 different mods is a terrible idea. I agree with most of what DE does, but not this.

[bl4ckhunter]

Just now, (PS4)Tactless_Ninja said:

If it's split up the way it said in the official devstream overview,

Health energy - They're big globs and spawn semi-rarely, no missing them. Not necessary.

Credits ammo - Credits I have no need for anymore but ammo it's hard to distinguish the different types in the middle of a firefight so that's a mid-priority for me.

And Endo, resources, misc.- This'll be the one I stick on all my sentinels. That's top priority.

Seriously you can stick all three on the sentinel without losing out on anything really  http://warframe-builder.com/Sentinels/Builder/Carrier_Prime/t_30_5200550405_268-5-5-275-7-10-276-4-0-277-0-5-284-6-10-286-8-5-742-9-5_277-4-f-f-f-f-f-f-276-2-268-4-284-12-275-7-286-7-742-3/en/11-0-12/  

[RustGear]

if they would just increase the innate pickup range of warframes this would be a null issue and they could do whatever they want with carrier

[ComfyOlivia]

7 minutes ago, bl4ckhunter said:

Honestly this change is not "THAT" bad, it just means that i'll have to catalize my carrier, sentinels have plenty of spare mod space so it's not that much of an issue unless you're one of those people that use sentinels for damage, the problem is that it solves absolutely nothing at all besides making carrier better.

My problem really just lies in how DE has consistently been disregarding community opinion on hot button issues that the community itself has brought up. The change doesn't sound terrible, honestly. It's the fact that the community has been brainstorming for months on the topic and gave a clear concensus on what a good portion of us want and they came up with a solution that just takes 3 steps back from the 2 steps forward it's going to make.

[OniDax]

Just now, bl4ckhunter said:

Seriously you can stick all three on the sentinel without losing out on anything really  http://warframe-builder.com/Sentinels/Builder/Carrier_Prime/t_30_5200550405_268-5-5-275-7-10-276-4-0-277-0-5-284-6-10-286-8-5-742-9-5_277-4-f-f-f-f-f-f-276-2-268-4-284-12-275-7-286-7-742-3/en/11-0-12/  

Unless they only let you have one of them equipped at a time, which I wouldn't put past DE.

[TheVeiledScion]

The WF community right now:

 

[Deathkgt]

This is how DE fix/resolve our requests/problems.  "We want universal vacuum", well, they did that and gave us 3 universal vacuum mods.  The same thing happens to Nekros,  "We want to stop spamming desecrate", well they fix that by making us spam shadows. 

[OniDax]

5 minutes ago, Arktourus said:

The WF community right now:

 

So, the community is either Kylo or the poor soul getting showered with sparks...

 

And this is me

Edited September 17, 2016 by AntoineFlemming

[Coherent_Exile]

1 hour ago, Educated_Beast said:

I'm in total agreement with OP.  I even remember as new player how cool I thought carrier was watching loot get sucked up...

 

 

I only use carrier even though I have multiple forma sentinels / companions.  It is a quality of life choice.  

 

Whenever I play another sentinel / companion, I regret it and go back.  

 

Honestly, this will be enough for me to walk away from warframe.  I've played and supported DE for 2+ years and seen ups and downs but this choice is only going to be followed by worse choices if the developers are that far off from their fan base.  

 

All companions should do this automatically (or just all warframes).  Because they dont, most players use carrier.  Those that don't just like cats or dogs to much to admit they are at a disadvantage.  At worst, 1 mod slot, 3 is way extreme, especially with all bugs in game (I've had a rare crate spawn behind wall I could collect with carrier).

 

If I'm thinking it and stuck with DE so long, I imagine hoards of players will get fed up as well.

 

It's a nail in coffin for their game.

 

"It's the nail in the coffin for their game" 

 

You aren't being serious? Tell me you aren't seriously saying that. 

[AuroraSonicBoom]

You think you would have gotten an universal vacuum without any kind of drawback to be put on any sentinel(and after another few years of complaining any other companion/warframe)? Come on man, this is just ridiculous. This is not an MMO where you have click on every freaking drop individually to pick it up, there is absolutely no need to campaign for anything more than you have already gotten, last of which an conditionless AoE Loot for everything.

[(PSN)Final_Dragon01]

EDIT:  Okay,  when I made the original post I had not seen the DevStream 80 overview.  I just watched the stream where they did not detail the purposed changes.  I retyped the below to account for the overview.

Just a thought.

If vacuum as it is now is simply split into three parts set out in the DS80 overview that is a horrible change and a reduction to QOL we don't need.

If it has to be done this way one way to make it kinda acceptable would be to massively increase the range of each mod.  Somewhere around triple the range might make up for the massive nerf.

A different way to do it that would also be acceptable would be to allow all the vacuum mods to vacuum all things within 6m and all things of the different types within a much larger radius, but just equipping any one of the three makes it so you don't have to do that stupid little jumping dance to get resources or energy that fell between a crate and a wall.

I would be very happy vacuuming energy/health(things that affect my damage output and survivability) in a shorter range, but vacuuming up resources/endo/mods(things that don't affect in-mission gameplay) at a much longer range.  Or if I was using neckros and I wanted a constant stream of health orbs I could add or switch to the vacuum that picked up energy/health at long range, but I still would not need to go and individually step on mods to collect them.

There is no reason for ammo/credits to a type of vacuum.  Ammo belongs with health/energy and credits belongs with endo and the rest.  A much better third vacuum would be one that could interact with mission objectives like data masses, reactant, and power cores.

My point is that while the currently purposed changes are horrible, they could be made acceptable or even good if they added to functionally and player choice.  As it stands now the first mods I would drop on the other sentinels would be the other precepts.  The current solution only turns the other sentinels into carriers with different guns.  It does NOTHING to address the reason 89% of us used carrier in the first place.

So DE, please either add functionality that makes up for the massive purposed nerf or just do what we have been asking for and make it universal without messing with it.

 

 

After thought:  If you are going to nerf the crud out of vacuum at least make it available to the pets too.

Edited September 17, 2016 by (PS4)Final_Dragon01

[--UMBRA--Klokw3rk]

im jut hoping splitting into 3 types is just crossed wires and its 1 vacuum for sentinel 1 vacuum for kubrow one for kavat not this ammo/orbs/endo thing they said

[mac10smg--Toa_of_Green]

23 minutes ago, Shadow8600 said:

Or, you know, universal vacuum. 

Well...

 

 

 

 

I guess playing Mag has its advantages >:)

[Xarian]

They should just remove vacuum completely. DE's stance has always been "you don't need it", which is true. Time to prove it.

 

The real problem with Carrier is that the precepts on other sentinels aren't any good. The only decent one is Shade, and that's only good on maybe 15% of frames in 15% of missions. So you use vacuum, which is better than having a crappy laser or a scanner that takes 3 seconds to scan anything.

And then you get a horde of players who never use anything but vacuum and get angry if they have to swap out that tiny bit of utility. Personally, I think that both of the Kavats are incredibly overpowered - but you wouldn't know it, because people think that they have to use Carrier! I've been using Kavats since they came out and barely even noticed the difference without vacuum - the only thing I really noticed is that I don't worry about my Kavat getting killed, thanks to being able to rescue him.

I did, however, notice the constant influx of red crits and enhanced rare drops, which way more than make up for not having vacuum.

[That1Cactus]

You reap what you sow

[Deshiel]

1 minute ago, mac10smg-ToaOfGreen said:

Well...

 

 

 

 

I guess playing Mag has its advantages >:)

had.