Dev Stream 80: Carrier Changes feedback thread [Megathread]

[NeithanDiniem]

Diriga isn't supposed to shut down a room, don't expect it to. Its stun is quite effective for several play styles and game modes, such as defensive missions. The 30 people in the discord I frequent all highly praise its effectiveness. Not to mention it has 40 meter range.

Wyrm Prime's laser rifle is one of the best weapons to use for a sentinel, and both his prime and normal version are a decent middle ground for a sentinel.

Shade's stealth is a lot more predictable, where as with the Huras it can last for a long time or barely a few seconds. The kubrow also triggers the stun at random times compared to when around enemies, where the stealth would be advantageous. Shade's stealth is also able to last indefinitely, where as the Huras's has a time limit.

Helios is advantageous still for its function for scanning since it doesn't require you to use a specific melee weapon that takes standing to acquire. It can use the synth scanner for infinite scanning ability, and doesn't take health damage from corpus lasers. His augment is indeed nice, and is useful in quite a lot of situations. Hes also quite consistent on headshots with his weapon, and Deconstructor is an incredible silent powerhouse with primed mods.

Ill agree with you on Dethcube. That poor sentinel needs some love.

Djinn is quite good for melee and stealth based runs since he can CC a good number of enemies and strip armor with a guaranteed corrosive proc against 5+ enemies. Enemies targeted by his mesmerize don't attack and are also vulnerable to be easily killed. Hes got the second best range as well.

There are plenty of reasons to use the other sentinels.

[Azrael]

5 minutes ago, Phatose said:

Does it?  It wouldn't increase magazine size - so Kohm's ramp up will still ramp down after the natural magazine is exhausted.  Nor does it increase ammo income more then ammo mutation already does, nor decrease ammo usage. 

They are talking about making carrier provide ammo mutation as well. That's what he's talking about.
 

[Mak_Gohae]

2 minutes ago, TheTundraTerror said:

Most of the people who are "against the idea of universal vacuum" aren't against that. They're against DE's stupid "all or nothing" approach for the sake of "balance". They're against DE taking one mod and turning it into 3 mods, further screwing over new players.

come on, let's not start with the new players excuse.

New players dont start with carrier, there's no major effect, here.

[kaliazane]

Simply increasing area at which frames pick items would be best way. Now they are trying really hard to put a spin on it, knowing people wont have 3 free mod slots to pick everything. I would actually rather current carrier instead of 3 different mods for different things.

Edited September 17, 2016 by ViS4GE

[Phatose]

Just now, Lord_Azrael said:

They are talking about making carrier provide ammo mutation as well. That's what he's talking about.
 

If ammo mutation were enough to make it viable, ammo mutation mods would've already done so.

[Azrael]

Just now, Mak_Gohae said:

come on, let's not start with the new players excuse.

New players dont start with carrier, there's no major effect, here.

Huh? Players can easily get carrier while still being quite new. Do you suppose that a MR 4 or 5 player suddenly doesn't care about resources or credits or mods? Why do so many people attempt to claim that only brand new players care about picking up loot?
 

[TheTundraTerror]

1 minute ago, Mak_Gohae said:

come on, let's not start with the new players excuse.

No, we ARE going to start with the "new player excuse" because new players are told, from the start, "get carrier". If anyone starts the game, you know what one of the first things I tell people to get: A carrier.

[EothasianBoar]

Like the idea of making Vacuum universal sentinel mod, like Regen or Guardian. I don't know the 3 separate Vacuum will be mod for player's or sentinel's. It'll screw up ppl who want Vacuum if it's a warframe mod.

Don't like the idea of forcing it on everybody, though. Some do not wish to have Vacuum on them, just like how some do not want Volt's Speed or Banished by Limbo. Making it universal is fine as long as there is a way to opt out of it.

[Azrael]

Just now, Phatose said:

If ammo mutation were enough to make it viable, ammo mutation mods would've already done so.

My Kohm gets along just fine with only ammo mutation. If I really need it to last, I'll use a shotgun scavenger as well. How else do you make it viable? Are you saying it's not?

[Azrael]

1 minute ago, TheTundraTerror said:

No, we ARE going to start with the "new player excuse" because new players are told, from the start, "get carrier". If anyone starts the game, you know what one of the first things I tell people to get: A carrier.

And it's good advice, too. Without carrier the grind to higher MR is much much worse.

[RenownedWheat42]

One issue is the majority of vocal players asked for a choice in what carrier picked up (i.e. "I don't want to pick up all these energy orbs if I only need 4 energy" or "why waste 30 rifle ammo if I only need 10", etc.).

I don't personally like what is happening, but I see why it was done.

[Phatose]

Just now, Lord_Azrael said:

My Kohm gets along just fine with only ammo mutation. If I really need it to last, I'll use a shotgun scavenger as well. How else do you make it viable? Are you saying it's not?

I didn't care for Kohm enough to really delve much into it's viability.  The gentleman who quoted me implied - rather heavily - that it is not.

Rather, I'm implying that the effect of a floating ammo restore on it's viability is unlikely to be meaningful, and certainly isn't enough to make up for the proposed carrier ability being very, very dull.

[Neear]

I made a simple poll that I'm trying to get everyone's opinion considering the changes on Carrier and Vacuum.

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/700166-poll-concerning-carrier/

[kaliazane]

4 minutes ago, RenownedWheat42 said:

One issue is the majority of vocal players asked for a choice in what carrier picked up (i.e. "I don't want to pick up all these energy orbs if I only need 4 energy" or "why waste 30 rifle ammo if I only need 10", etc.).

I don't personally like what is happening, but I see why it was done.

Same thing happened with volt speed being optional. Some girl screamed -Butt DE! I No want be Such fast !!!

So they made it optional, then realized its stupid idea and rewerted it.

Who cares if you "waste" 30 rifle ammo, like wtf.

[-PP-Sonicz]

I do like how the new carrier precept system works, where there is ammo conversion and utility is being improved and implemented on. However, i find the idea of splitting vacuum into specifics would generally be a bad idea. Picking up items could be a pain especially when there is only so much time available for you to pick up after completing the last wave of a defense or others that are similar. I think that vacuum should be converted to an arcane where you can attach them to your helmet and syandana, and make it untradeable as it will encourage players to play raids or get them legitimately from milestone login rewards. This will make vacuum quite a unique element, and not just any new players can easily obtain. Of course, i'm not pushing away new players just by saying this, i just want new players to learn more about the game mechanics rather than getting it easily and in time taking-things for granted kind of mentality. just a thought  

[TheTundraTerror]

14 minutes ago, FrackingBiscuit said:

Why tie this ability to any piece of gear?  Why not just... give players a vacuum?  

Because if they did, they would have even less of a reason to charge players 20p for one rare resource.

[TheTundraTerror]

6 minutes ago, RenownedWheat42 said:

"I don't want to pick up all these energy orbs if I only need 4 energy" or "why waste 30 rifle ammo if I only need 10", etc.

THAN MAKE IT A TOGGLE!

[Mak_Gohae]

6 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:

Huh? Players can easily get carrier while still being quite new. Do you suppose that a MR 4 or 5 player suddenly doesn't care about resources or credits or mods? Why do so many people attempt to claim that only brand new players care about picking up loot?
 

Player being able to get carrier early and players getting it are two different things. 

And no didnt say any of the other stuff you asked. You read my post, you should know.

6 minutes ago, TheTundraTerror said:

No, we ARE going to start with the "new player excuse" because new players are told, from the start, "get carrier". If anyone starts the game, you know what one of the first things I tell people to get: A carrier.

So you create that issue then blame DE for not following it?

You DO see the problem here, right?

[TheTundraTerror]

7 minutes ago, Mak_Gohae said:

So you create that issue then blame DE for not following it?

You DO see the problem here, right?

Who's the one who set the default pickup range to basically 0m around you? Don't even try and pass the blame onto me. DE makes a game that's basically a third-person looter and than says you can only pick up things under your feet. The issue here, as it often is, is DE not having half a ****ing clue about what kind of game they want to make. They make all these changes to Parkour which let us jump and flip around, and than punish us for not planting out feet on the ground and not using the system they put in place. I haven't seen something so self defeating since Xenophobia Anonymous meetings.

Edited September 17, 2016 by TheTundraTerror

[Azrael]

5 minutes ago, Phatose said:

I didn't care for Kohm enough to really delve much into it's viability.  The gentleman who quoted me implied - rather heavily - that it is not.

Rather, I'm implying that the effect of a floating ammo restore on it's viability is unlikely to be meaningful, and certainly isn't enough to make up for the proposed carrier ability being very, very dull.

Well allow me to say that I maxed my kohm, that I love it very much, and that it is indeed quite viable. Also I'm very excited for carrier-based ammo mutation, because I use ammo mutation on a number of my favorite weapons.

And while I use primed shotgun mutation on my kohm, and carrier is unlikely to match that, I imagine that using a shotgun scav will augment it enough to be viable.

[NeithanDiniem]

1 minute ago, TheTundraTerror said:

THAN MAKE IT A TOGGLE!

Yes, because the next thing we need is another key bind to worry about on the already rather crowded key binds. Also you'll still have people complaining that they cant get their resources when they don't want to get the ammo or the health or the energy.

[RenownedWheat42]

5 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

Same thing happened with volt speed being optional. Some girl screamed -Butt DE! I No want be Such fast !!!

So they made it optional, then realized its stupid idea and rewerted it.

Who cares if you "waste" 30 rifle ammo, like wtf.

The wasted energy/ammo/health/life support are all reasons that are viable, like losing trace amounts of "endo" from the previous fusion core system by just fusing too much into a mod.

30 ammo wasted can go a long way on a weapon that eats ammo, even with a mutation. 24 wasted energy can make a huge difference if you're a heavy caster. One or two wasted life support packages can be the difference between making it to the end of the rotation or not at all. Wasting a health orb can be the difference between getting downed/wasting a revive AND affinity, or actually staying alive long enough to get away.

Like I said, I don't like it either. I HOPE it goes the way Volt's speed did and ends up reverting. But for now, this is what the vocal part of the community asked for. 

[kaliazane]

1 minute ago, NeithanDiniem said:

Yes, because the next thing we need is another key bind to worry about on the already rather crowded key binds. Also you'll still have people complaining that they cant get their resources when they don't want to get the ammo or the health or the energy.

You never played a game where keybinds are actually crowded. Where you run out of keys under your left hand and go for alt + key combination and then run out of those too.

[NeithanDiniem]

Just now, ViS4GE said:

You never played a game where keybinds are actually crowded. Where you run out of keys under your left hand and go for alt + key combination and then run out of those too.

That is rather the point. Avoid that aspect because it causes issues. Also think about console just as much as you do PC.

[Azrael]

2 minutes ago, Mak_Gohae said:

Player being able to get carrier early and players getting it are two different things.

You said "new players don't start with carrier" and I said "who cares? They get one soon enough, while their still new."

You are saying that "the new player excuse" doesn't work, because new players don't start with carrier, but of course we should consider new players. New players who need resources will want vacuum, because that makes sense.

 

4 minutes ago, Mak_Gohae said:

14 minutes ago, TheTundraTerror said:

No, we ARE going to start with the "new player excuse" because new players are told, from the start, "get carrier". If anyone starts the game, you know what one of the first things I tell people to get: A carrier.

So you create that issue then blame DE for not following it?

We didn't create the issue, we advised new players how to deal with the issue. The issue is the terrible pickup range combined with loot bizarrely spraying all over the place instead of being concentrated in a few places. Telling new players to get carrier is good advice, because without it they miss out on many things they need.