DeMonkey Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Lord_Azrael said: That's funny, cause most games seem to have that exact convenience. Maybe it's because games exist to be fun and not annoying? Please cite the > 50% of the worlds games that have convenient looting. Woah now, somebody alert the justice department. Apparently asking someone to back up a claim is a stupid argument. Edited September 17, 2016 by DeMonkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bl4ckhunter Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Just now, DeMonkey said: Please site the > 50% of the worlds games that have convenient looting. Basically any pve mmo besides PoE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll_Logic Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 7 minutes ago, (XB1)Skode said: Convenience is not integral friend. It's a nice thing sure but a luxury, some are acting as though it's quite the contrary. Keep thinking that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeMonkey Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Just now, bl4ckhunter said: Basically any pve mmo besides PoE? Very informative. 5 minutes ago, NativeKiller said: Convenience may not be mandatory for PLAYING the game but it may be mandatory for actually being able to ENJOY the game. I don't know about others but I don't feel like picking up every single loot, piece by piece myself. I'd rather have my carrier pick up my loot for me while I actually play the game. Vacuum being mandatory to actually enjoy the game is potentially one of the most hyperbolic statements I've seen on the forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friedelinde Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 1 minute ago, DeMonkey said: Please site the > 50% of the worlds games that have convenient looting. That's one of the stupidest argument ever. "Oh! someone made a point?! let's have him/her name every game in the world that has such looting system! it must be over 50%!" Next time someone's saying "Carrier is most used sentinel" you're going to ask for hard numbers aren't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azrael Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Just now, DeMonkey said: Please site the > 50% of the worlds games that have convenient looting. Okay, sure. I'll just type the name of every game ever made that makes some concession to loot gathering. It may take a few years, so please try to be patient. Are you really going to claim that most games just spray loot all over the place and give you no convenient way to pick it up? Here are some examples: in The Old Republic looting one body gives you the loot from every body in the area, all at once. Fallout 4 concentrates all loot in searchable bodies and makes the game slow enough that looting them is not unreasonable. In Doom 2016, which is fast paced and combat-oriented, you have a vacuum aura that is larger than the aura given to warframes and other sentinals. How about you cite the 50% of games that make loot gathering as annoying as possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NativeKiller Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 (edited) 13 minutes ago, DeMonkey said: Very informative. Reveal hidden contents Vacuum being mandatory to actually enjoy the game is potentially one of the most hyperbolic statements I've seen on the forums. Vacuum "is" mandatory? You might have misunderstood me since I said "may be", not "is". Also, as I had said earlier, "I don't know about others" such as "you", but Vacuum makes "my" life as a Tenno at least a dozen times more enjoyable. So it is pretty much mandatory for "my" enjoyment of the game. Satisfied? Edited September 17, 2016 by NativeKiller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll_Logic Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 6 minutes ago, bl4ckhunter said: Annoyance on the other hand, it's pretty solid when you feel it. Carrier at this moment is the most used sentinel. Why? becouse picking up loot is damn annoying. People want universal vacuum innate to frames becouse picking up loot manually makes their experience worse I'd even go farther. I can't tell you how many times I've not had carrier and ran three feet to the right of an energy orb and not picked it up. It's incredibly annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll_Logic Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 3 minutes ago, DeMonkey said: Vacuum being mandatory to actually enjoy the game is potentially one of the most hyperbolic statements I've seen on the forums. If you think that's "one of the most hyperbolic statements I've seen on the forums" then you need to reset your scale. For many people, myself included, severely nerfing vacuum for no good reason would greatly diminish the enjoyment of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockwave- Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 13 minutes ago, (XB1)Skode said: Convenience is not integral friend. It's a nice thing sure but a luxury, some are acting as though it's quite the contrary. iti is integral, if I have to stop playing and having fun killing things in order to literraly step on every thing I want then it is that much more like work. Games that make you think you are working are not good games. It would be different if you were working towards something but you are working just to work some more. Dropping loot on the ground is already Meta. Do these various factions really just "drop" mods for warframes on the ground? Really? Were they in their pocket? why didn't we have to search the bodies? Where did the "endo" come from, sitting there as a nice little ball. Ammo drops make sense credit drops don't really (only in TINY amounts). I doubt Grinner pack credits when heading into battle and infested.... well. The loot really should be all awarded at the end by the lotus for doing the job and then we buy what we want with our pay. Nobody and I mean NOBODY loots bodies in the middle of a firefight for anything other than ammo/energy. But this is more fun... some RNG, some hey I got that... it's better than buying it all after so I get it. But still it's meta. We shouldn't have to run about picking it all up espeically in a fast paced parkour game featuring LOTS of loot. It's not like stopping to pick up one or two mods a mission. Convenience IS integral in a game like this one. Without it I'll spend my time elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeMonkey Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 8 minutes ago, Friedelinde said: That's one of the stupidest argument ever. "Oh! someone made a point?! let's have him/her name every game in the world that has such looting system! it must be over 50%!" Next time someone's saying "Carrier is most used sentinel" you're going to ask for hard numbers aren't you? Oh, someone made a point?! Let's have him/her actually back it up. How is that a stupid argument? I realise now that this thread has turned into a circlejerk though so I'm out. 2 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said: If you think that's "one of the most hyperbolic statements I've seen on the forums" then you need to reset your scale. No, I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azrael Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 1 minute ago, DeMonkey said: Oh, someone made a point?! Let's have him/her actually back it up. Back up yours. I have given examples and made an actual argument. Your argument seems to be "well prove it." Have you considered saying something of substance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friedelinde Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Just now, Lord_Azrael said: Back up yours. I have given examples and made an actual argument. Your argument seems to be "well prove it." Have you considered saying something of substance? Nah, don't bother with that guy/gal, s/he also conveniently ignoring your replies which would have him/her get the burden of prove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvelous_A Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 It seems fine for resources and orbs but credits and ammo should be auto-pick up not through using a vacuum mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockwave- Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 42 minutes ago, (XB1)Skode said: You know 700 hours and I've never seen a mod embedded into a wall nor seen vacuum as mandatory - not even close. Rare mod I might miss? If only there was a glowing indicator of said rare mods so they stick out like a sore thumb... oh wait! I don't want vacuum in pets. In fact I hate how much it and simlulor drag stuff I want away from me. Mods should not be eight feet in the air - kavats and kubrows never cause that to happen.... So in the first Acolyte event I ended up on a mission on Ceres with 3 strangers and we all set about looking for the acolyte, and foundit, but it was in the room on Ceres with the tunnel through the middle up high that you can not get in or out of. That's where it spawned. Of course with no clear path to us, it teleported me to it. I killed it, alone, cause ya know I'm badass and it dropped it's mod... in the tunnel. well nobody but me could get it. So I used the simulor to move the mod to the outside wall of the tunnel, close enough for the other three player's vaccuums to scoop it up. I'd like to say it was Argon scope and I was a total hero. It wasn't, it was the common mod. but it could have been argon. These things do happen. Stuff falls into walls. On a slow connection my group and I have seen the host get a mod and mark it only to have be 300m DOWN below the floor of the map with no way to get to it, or up. We've scoured the map for it but it is out of bounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
45neo Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 8 hours ago, Phatose said: It's still dull and uninteresting. but it makes interesting weapons like kohm potentially viable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friedelinde Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 8 hours ago, DeMonkey said: You're saying ''well prove it'' to my ''well prove it''? No. Oh you're still around? I thought you said you'd be gone. Also you (willingly) missed all the point, the point wasn't asking you to back the claim, the point is the absurdity of your "argument" of "oh hey, name every single game in existence to prove your point" which is so childish not even 5-years old could come up with If you're at work and someone point out your error, if you go "well point to me exactly where is it? what pixel in my image I made mistake?! which millimeter did I made the mistake?" you'd lose your job in an instant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeMonkey Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Just now, Friedelinde said: Oh you're still around? I thought you said you'd be gone. Also you (willingly) missed all the point, the point wasn't asking you to back the claim, the point is the absurdity of your "argument" of "oh hey, name every single game in existence to prove your point" which is so childish not even 5-years old could come up with If you're at work and someone point out your error, if you go "well point to me exactly where is it? what pixel in my image I made mistake?! which millimeter did I made the mistake?" you'd lose your job in an instant No, you missed the point. If you can't back up a point, you shouldn't make it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NativeKiller Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said: Back up yours. I have given examples and made an actual argument. Your argument seems to be "well prove it." Have you considered saying something of substance? Just /ignore You have better things to do than list down the names of countless games and how they offer convenience for looting. :3 Edited September 17, 2016 by NativeKiller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithrilDragon Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 (edited) First there was Universal Health Care. Now there's Universal Vacuum! When will this madness stop!?! Thanks Obama! :P Ok, I finally got that joke out of the way. I'm glad there's alot of people taking this news very positively (and of coarse there's the hoard sharpening pitchforks and grabbing torches). As for me, I'm going to continue using Diriga and Shade without Vacuum. Why? Because I'm too lazy to forma it (and I don't need Vacuum). Edited September 17, 2016 by MithrilDragon Forgot to mention Shade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azrael Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 1 minute ago, DeMonkey said: No, you missed the point. If you can't back up a point, you shouldn't make it. I gave several examples. Others have pointed out that convenient looting is a common characteristic amongst pve mmo's other than PoE. What, exactly, is YOUR point? Do you have one? Can you back it up? If your goal was to cast doubt on the idea that mmo's commonly have some kind of convenient way to gather loot, then I invite you to back up your claim by naming mulitple mmo's that make loot gathering annoying and frustrating, and that make players miss out on resources and other drops because they are busy actually playing the game. People have been saying that vacuum makes the game more fun for them, and that they don't want to have to walk over every individual drop. Other players apparently come here just to tell us that we're wrong about vacuum being important to us. Right now the best I can do is guess that you're in the second group. 6 minutes ago, NativeKiller said: Just /ignore. Honestly I'm mostly just afraid that the people who - for whatever reason - actually dislike convenience will dominate the thread and make it seem like the community doesn't want vacuum or doesn't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avalona Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Reminder that you already lost a big chunk of players since SotR update until this point, with : - new solar rail forcing new players to stick to their starter frame until they (quite literally) cleared half the game, without other choice being buy platinum and frame right off the market (I said new player, not alts that could be carried to Jupiter without clearing all the specter rails) - not giving new players any chances at this game without them shelling out real money (I know you need the money to survive as a company, but people will spend more if they like the game, not at the point of extortion) - removal of any point to run endless mode, making veterans looking for a better game with REWARD FOR THEIR COMMITMENT - addition of "innovative" archwing control that made people literally quit playing that game mode entirely - the new void being more grindy than you advertised - the new endo conversion that actually de-value the fusion core, making fusion even more grindy - sneakily forcing every player to spend extra 300k credits on full fusion with the new endo - sneakily add in stealth nerfs such as Bladestorm being full LoS (not necessarily a bad thing, but at least announce it) and now the removal of working vacuum that invalidated the looting issues since sentinel was added Treads carefully, DE. Also @DeMonkey Wow that's idiotic argument you have there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NativeKiller Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said: I gave several examples. Others have pointed out that convenient looting is a common characteristic amongst pve mmo's other than PoE. What, exactly, is YOUR point? Do you have one? Can you back it up? If your goal was to cast doubt on the idea that mmo's commonly have some kind of convenient way to gather loot, then I invite you to back up your claim by naming mulitple mmo's that make loot gathering annoying and frustrating, and that make players miss out on resources and other drops because they are busy actually playing the game. People have been saying that vacuum makes the game more fun for them, and that they don't want to have to walk over every individual drop. Other players apparently come here just to tell us that we're wrong about vacuum being important to us. Right now the best I can do is guess that you're in the second group. Honestly I'm mostly just afraid that the people who - for whatever reason - actually dislike convenience will dominate the thread and make it seem like the community doesn't want vacuum or doesn't care. Yeah, I understand your worries as I feel the same as well. :3 What I meant was that you should just ignore the demand that you should write an academic paper on the subject of "Video games and their current trends on providing QoL features on game content such as 'Looting'" Edited September 17, 2016 by NativeKiller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockwave- Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 (edited) DE. I don't understand. If you want us to use other sentinels because carrier is used 99% of the time. Make sentinels that are valuable. I don't care if they all can vaccumm. In a game where we are so overpowered that we can handle anything up to where there is no point to go beyond (now that's wave 20), then we don't NEED a deathcube. It doesn't DO anything. In a game where we are hard pressed to make it out of the harder missions alive and Deathcube is tanky and does a lot of damage, then I might NEED a deathcube. Now I have a hard choice - carrier or deathcube. Just look at Adarza and Smeeta. Smeeta got me to use something other than carrier for the first time EVER (well i used helios to scan a bunch early that's it, and raised teh others to 30). Of course Smeeta was nerfed into oblivion after than (who impliments an ability that then needs to be nerfed 75%?) If we aren't using the other sentinels than either buff them OR better yet create missions/game situations that make them valuable. I don't need stealth for almost any mission (bye shade) I don't need that much extra firepower (bye deathcube), I don't really need scanning anymore, or Detect vulnerability (bye Helios). I actually forget what Djinn and Wyrm do but pretty sure they are dmg based (see Deathcube). Leave Carrier's vacuum alone. Give carrier the ability to store some small amount of ammo that it vacuums with it's current vacuum (no mutation, just storage if you go over). Then give the broken up vacuum to other sentinels. Try it out. I guarantee you Carrier will still be the most popular choice. Edited September 17, 2016 by Shockwave- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll_Logic Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 26 minutes ago, DeMonkey said: No, I don't. That's up to you, but if you're going to get the vapors from relatively benign statements, I'd recommend investing in a few crates of smelling salts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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