Dev Stream 80: Carrier Changes feedback thread [Megathread]

[StinkyPygmy]

1 minute ago, Valaska said:

*sigh* Because most people aren't here to play farmville.

I'd beg to differ. The playerbase LOVES farming, despite what they say.

Just say'n

[Maicael]

1 minute ago, JSharpie said:

You aren't playing farmville. Jesus Christ. It takes 5 seconds if it's on the OTHER side of the biggest tile. You don't need every piece of loot and you still need to be near it for the vacuum effect to take place.

Some of us just don't like how cluttered the mini-map starts appearing with the dozens of white boxes that start filling it up, or if you're client-side when stuff doesn't actually fall to the ground and you've got all this crap floating in the air. Really, none of the other companions' abilities really seem worth it to me compared to keeping the screen clear of visual debris.

Sure, it only takes 5 seconds...every 30-60 seconds or so.

[Azrael]

8 minutes ago, StinkyPygmy said:

You're already running around like a mad man any way so chances are you walk over most useful picks ups regardless

Not even close. When I'm running/parkouring around, I am focused on where the enemies are and reacting to that. Asking me to move around according to where loot is instead of where the enemy is means asking me to stop focusing on the reason I'm playing the mission. I'm not there to pick up energy orbs or PLS, I'm there to kill enemies. I want to focus on that.

[CrudShuzKong]

For some reason DE and a few players think that it is great to have to stop in the middle of the mission and slowly run zigzag through a room in order to connect the loot drops, while completely ignoring the 3 bombard rockets chasing you.

In this game mobility is everything and not getting loot sucks a ton, especially for new players...

I  get it that if you have a bank of 100k oxium and 1k neurodes, that you dont really give a damn about drops and thus dont mind Vacuum, but there are players that really have better things to do than chase little colorfull cylinders around...

[artemisfortune]

58 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:

Not even close. When I'm running/parkouring around, I am focused on where the enemies are and reacting to that. Asking me to move around according to where loot is instead of where the enemy is means asking me to stop focusing on the reason I'm playing the mission. I'm not there to pick up energy orbs or PLS, I'm there to kill enemies. I want to focus on that.

You pretty much just agreed with him.

[taiiat]

1 hour ago, Valaska said:

forcing you to use more mod slots in already uninspired/borring sentinels

honestly, the Companion Mods that get used the most, are prettyyyyy much the same across all of them.
more things to have to choose between, out of principle, can't be that awful.

[StinkyPygmy]

2 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:

Not even close. When I'm running/parkouring around, I am focused on where the enemies are and reacting to that. Asking me to move around according to where loot is instead of where the enemy is means asking me to stop focusing on the reason I'm playing the mission. I'm not there to pick up energy orbs or PLS, I'm there to kill enemies. I want to focus on that.

Thats my point? You literally don;t have to worry about where loot is because you tend to run over it by osmosis. Not to mention that where the loot is also tends to be exactly where enemies are/were. Vacuums range isn;t that big so either way you're gonna be standing right next to loot anyway simply just by killing enemies and occasionally keeping and eye out for mods and important stuff which is hard to miss even if you have tunnel vision.

 

9 minutes ago, CrudShuzKong said:

For some reason DE and a few players think that it is great to have to stop in the middle of the mission and slowly run zigzag through a room in order to connect the loot drops, while completely ignoring the 3 bombard rockets chasing you.

In this game mobility is everything and not getting loot sucks a ton, especially for new players...

I  get it that if you have a bank of 100k oxium and 1k neurodes, that you dont really give a damn about drops and thus dont mind Vacuum, but there are players that really have better things to do than chase little colorfull cylinders around...

I've never had to even think about chasing loot around. Seriously, vacuums range isn;t big enough that it sucks loot in from the otherside of the room. its like what, 10m at best? not even that.

[Azrael]

17 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

Why are people so lazy that they can't push wasd or move their joystick to walk over something that takes maybe 5 seconds to do. Most of the farming maps are clustered into one area anyway. This Vacuum change is welcome.

Why are players so unwilling to accept that most people like having vacuum? We like it. Not because we're lazy, or because we don't know how to run in zigzags, but because to us the game is more fun that way. Deal with it.

[Xekrin]

20 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

Why are people so lazy that they can't push wasd or move their joystick to walk over something that takes maybe 5 seconds to do. Most of the farming maps are clustered into one area anyway. This Vacuum change is welcome.

It has nothing to do with being lazy, it is a preference of how you wish to play.  Calling someone lazy for not wanting to play how you do is, well lazy.  Lazy thinking in that you don't want to be bothered with seeing another side of something.  You think your way is best and any who want to do different aren't worth the effort or time it would take to find out why they do it differently.

In short, don't call people names, its rude and against the forum rules or one, and just plain common sense.

That said, frak yes I'm lazy, I sure as heck do not want to walk over every little dot of resource/credits/etc in a long mission.  Sure there are plenty of things you don't have to pick up, but there is this thing called OCD and some gamers have it to a degree.  If its there, it must be picked up.  I'm not making light of OCD either, I know its a serious issue, but its the best way to describe that feeling you get when you see loot just everywhere.

If you aren't as lazy as the rest of us then none of this, not the extra modding or how we argue over the best way to redo vacuum even affects you.  Carry on with your merry life of not picking up loot and do not bother chastising us for how we decide to play.

Fair?

[StinkyPygmy]

51 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:

Why are players so unwilling to accept that most people like having vacuum? We like it. Not because we're lazy, or because we don't know how to run in zigzags, but because to us the game is more fun that way. Deal with it.

You're not understanding what people are saying. Its not about the fact people like using it. Its about the fact that to many people its dubbed "essential" over every other companion ability and that for many people, yeah, it is kind of an issue of laziness. Not everyone, but you can't tell me that a huge portion of people don't use it purely because it makes what ever the flavor of month farm method is easier to macro and/or generally cheese movement wise. That lil nugget of info is gleaned by a lot of players own admission.

I enjoy using it from time to time to, but I don't think changes surrounding it are a bad thing. Just to reiterate: Innate loot vacuum? Yes. Innate vacuum for ammo and general pickups? Eh.

I don't think DE is going about it the right way necessarily either. but I can't really comment too much on that till it happens and we see how it all works.

Edited September 20, 2016 by StinkyPygmy

[Xzorn]

Anyone who doesn't see the value of Vacuum must play this game at a snail pace.

 

Vacuum has attributed roughly 3k plat to my wallet through converting extra mods and credits into MAX mods and selling them.

Extra loot I got.....  Not because I simply didn't have to move 10m; but because of my clear times, my kill rates and reduced overhead of managing pickups.

It's about being a fast and efficient farmer.

 

[Azrael]

25 minutes ago, StinkyPygmy said:

You're not understanding what people are saying. Its not about the fact people like using it. Its about the fact that to many people its dubbed "essential" over every other companion ability and that for many people, yeah, it is kind of an issue of laziness. Not everyone, but you can't tell me that a huge portion of people don't use it purely because it makes what ever the flavor of month farm method is easier to macro and/or generally cheese movement wise.

One, no I don't know that. I don't assume how people play without seeing them, and I haven't seen most people play. Don't make assumptions about how "a huge portion" of people play just to support your calling those people lazy.

Two, those of us who like vacuum are saying that we like vacuum, and players like you are constantly calling us lazy and trying to tell us that we are playing wrong. I'm so tired of people telling me how I should play, that I'm wrong for taking carrier with me all the time. I've heard people say that they teamkill carriers when they get rad procced, just to "teach them a lesson" about being "reliant on carrier."

So please, all of you who don't like vacuum, just stop. We like vacuum, and you're just gonna have to get over that. Stop calling us lazy, stop saying that we "can't press wasd," stop saying that we "should try not using carrier just once." We DO use companions other than carrier, we just prefer having vacuum, so quit with the disrespect and acknowledge that vacuum isn't  going away.

[Valaska]

6 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:

One, no I don't know that. I don't assume how people play without seeing them, and I haven't seen most people play. Don't make assumptions about how "a huge portion" of people play just to support your calling those people lazy.

Two, those of us who like vacuum are saying that we like vacuum, and players like you are constantly calling us lazy and trying to tell us that we are playing wrong. I'm so tired of people telling me how I should play, that I'm wrong for taking carrier with me all the time. I've heard people say that they teamkill carriers when they get rad procced, just to "teach them a lesson" about being "reliant on carrier."

So please, all of you who don't like vacuum, just stop. We like vacuum, and you're just gonna have to get over that. Stop calling us lazy, stop saying that we "can't press wasd," stop saying that we "should try not using carrier just once." We DO use companions other than carrier, we just prefer having vacuum, so quit with the disrespect and acknowledge that vacuum isn't  going away.

Seeing as the -VAST- majority of people are reliant on Carrier, that actually means that anyone not using carrier is the anomaly and playing wrong.

[Ditto132]

1 hour ago, JSharpie said:

Why are people so lazy that they can't push wasd or move their joystick to walk over something that takes maybe 5 seconds to do. Most of the farming maps are clustered into one area anyway. This Vacuum change is welcome.

People who use Vacuum are not necessarily lazy, they usually just don't want to be bothered with playing "pick up the loots" game.
Moving joystick or pressing WASD to walk over loots is not as satisfying as executing parkour movement and firing weapons in most cases.

By your logic, then I can also claim that why are people so lazy that they like to use Ember WoF to kill instead of move their mouse/thumbstick to aim and shoot at the enemy in ~1-3 seconds.

[StinkyPygmy]

15 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:

One, no I don't know that. I don't assume how people play without seeing them, and I haven't seen most people play. Don't make assumptions about how "a huge portion" of people play just to support your calling those people lazy.

Two, those of us who like vacuum are saying that we like vacuum, and players like you are constantly calling us lazy and trying to tell us that we are playing wrong. I'm so tired of people telling me how I should play, that I'm wrong for taking carrier with me all the time. I've heard people say that they teamkill carriers when they get rad procced, just to "teach them a lesson" about being "reliant on carrier."

So please, all of you who don't like vacuum, just stop. We like vacuum, and you're just gonna have to get over that. Stop calling us lazy, stop saying that we "can't press wasd," stop saying that we "should try not using carrier just once." We DO use companions other than carrier, we just prefer having vacuum, so quit with the disrespect and acknowledge that vacuum isn't  going away.

You're missing the point entirely. The only thing I actually said that you did mention was that huge portion of people use it as a farming crutch. The rest of it? Na, I didn't say any of that. You're picking out one point among many and I can assure you I wasn't criticizing people for using vacuum or salty that it exists. But thats fine, I'll leave it there because its clear you're hung up only on the negative points surrounding carrier and getting defensive (not that its entirely unwarranted). Opinions about vacuum are somewhat beside the point. The point of the thread is more towards whether or not changes are warranted and if they are, what they should be.

(Side note: On the topic of a lot of players using it mostly as a farm tool, the poster above my post literally just stated thats why he uses it. Just some food for thought)

Edited September 20, 2016 by StinkyPygmy

[(XBOX)Skode]

If vacuum had never existed people would never over react like this in the first place. Im fed up with even reading and hearing about - most of all people moaning the game is not fun without it... and heres me having fun with my kubrows. Delete vacuum and be done with it!

[Valaska]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)Skode said:

If vacuum had never existed people would never over react like this in the first place. Im fed up with even reading and hearing about - most of all people moaning the game is not fun without it... and heres me having fun with my kubrows. Delete vacuum and be done with it!

Pardon? The game didn't have Vacuum once, actually... People complained about it constantly, why do you think they gave us vacuum?

[Azrael]

6 minutes ago, StinkyPygmy said:

The only thing I actually said that you did mention was that huge portion of people use it as a farming crutch. The rest of it? Na, I didn't say any of that.

Actually, you did call carrier users lazy, and stated that there was a problem with too many people thinking it's essential.

48 minutes ago, StinkyPygmy said:

Its about the fact that to many people its dubbed "essential" over every other companion ability and that for many people, yeah, it is kind of an issue of laziness.

 

But you'll notice that I started talking to players who didn't like vacuum, in general. You're right that you didn't say a lot of that stuff, that's why I didn't address you. But some of that stuff has been said by others right in this thread. For example, here's a nicely disrespectful comment from this thread:

1 hour ago, JSharpie said:

Why are people so lazy that they can't push wasd or move their joystick to walk over something that takes maybe 5 seconds to do. Most of the farming maps are clustered into one area anyway. This Vacuum change is welcome.

 

And every single thread about carrier, every single one, has comments like this. It never fails. Somebody always disparages carrier users, and it gets old very fast. So I'm stating, in general, that it needs to stop. People need to just grow up and deal with the fact that some people just don't feel the way they do.

[artemisfortune]

57 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:

And every single thread about carrier, every single one, has comments like this. It never fails. Somebody always disparages carrier users, and it gets old very fast. So I'm stating, in general, that it needs to stop. People need to just grow up and deal with the fact that some people just don't feel the way they do.

Nice catch 22 you got goin' there.

Edit: Also, this is a video game, at the end of the day, I really don't care what they do. It'll have very little effect on me at all. It should have very little effect on anyone.

Edited September 20, 2016 by JSharpie

[Azrael]

Just now, JSharpie said:

Nice catch 22 you got goin' there.

Huh? I don't understand this at all. Is this statement going to explain why you can be disrespectful to other players for their playstyles?

 

9 minutes ago, (XB1)Skode said:

If vacuum had never existed people would never over react like this in the first place. Im fed up with even reading and hearing about - most of all people moaning the game is not fun without it... and heres me having fun with my kubrows. Delete vacuum and be done with it!

Oh, look, another one. We were just talking about you!

[(PSN)greensmaragd]

2 hours ago, Valaska said:

Why would you make vacuum literally anything? At all? Its not fun, its not an interesting mechanic. Making it a weapon is just horrible, forcing you to use more mod slots in already uninspired/borring sentinels etc again FORCING you to not use Kubrows or Catbrows isn't good. Why make Vacuum ANYTHING?

Just make vacuum the default way loot is picked up. There's no sense in having it as some equipment, mod, or anything, it should just work like this already. This is silly all these suggestions to make something in the game that is just flat out annoying and a bother. Its a huge improvement to the quality of life to the game and will let people actually have fun in chosing their sentinel, kubrow, or cavat, instead of going "Oh well I guess I can have a sentinel but i need to at least put in THREE vacuum mods, which is going to be absolutely vital but make already pretty meh sentinels EVEN WORSE OFF just to have it sucking up loot."

 

Seriously DE, why? Whats up with this mechanic and the obsession to make life generally harder for people. Just make it a natural ability on all warframes, no exilius, no aura, nothing that's going to make loadouts even MORE limited or MORE static, just give us vacuum on the warframe. Please!

The luxury of carriers is to be vacuum. with a module Mod
Use Carrier, if you want to vacuum!
Where is the problem?

For the very good effect, you'll have to use Carrier.
If you want to have rather Critical Plus use Kavat,
if you wish to have perm. scans ....then....?

 

You understand? 

 

Edited September 20, 2016 by (PS4)greensmaragd

[artemisfortune]

56 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:

Huh? I don't understand this at all. Is this statement going to explain why you can be disrespectful to other players for their playstyles?

 

Oh, look, another one. We were just talking about you!

I'm not disrespectful to people to their playstyles. I'm not disrespectful at all. 

It is, by definition, laziness that makes you want the acquisition of loot to be done for you.

The catch 22 is you talking about people not feeling the same way as you and should deal with it. Not everyone feels the need to have universal vacuum because it's incredibly easy to push a button for 2 seconds to pick something up. Especially because you still have to be pretty close to any item for vacuum to take effect.

[Xzorn]

9 minutes ago, Valaska said:

Pardon? The game didn't have Vacuum once, actually... People complained about it constantly, why do you think they gave us vacuum?

 

Not to mention that before Vacuum; We had 1/10th the enemy spawn rates on most maps and those maps were 1/3 the size with mostly narrow hallways.

 

[StinkyPygmy]

9 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:

Actually, you did call carrier users lazy, and stated that there was a problem with too many people thinking it's essential.

 

But you'll notice that I started talking to players who didn't like vacuum, in general. You're right that you didn't say a lot of that stuff, that's why I didn't address you. But some of that stuff has been said by others right in this thread. For example, here's a nicely disrespectful comment from this thread:

 

And every single thread about carrier, every single one, has comments like this. It never fails. Somebody always disparages carrier users, and it gets old very fast. So I'm stating, in general, that it needs to stop. People need to just grow up and deal with the fact that some people just don't feel the way they do.

No, I said some players use it out of laziness and as a farming cheese tool. Not that all players that use it are by default, lazy. I use it from time to time, so it would make me a lil bit of a hypocrite to say that. Can you honestly say that it being dubbed essential and it being over used comparatively to other content isn't a bad sign or a sign that something needs work? Thats not a criticism of carrier users, thats a criticism of companions and vacuum as a whole, and depending on how you look at it, also of game design.

Other peoples negative comments are kind of beside the point when you're responding to me, homie. But anyway. I'll leave it there.

Edited September 20, 2016 by StinkyPygmy

[Azrael]

2 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

I'm not disrespectful to people to their playstyles. I'm not disrespectful at all. 

It is, by definition, laziness that makes you want the acquisition of loot to be done for you.

"I'm not disrespectful, you're just lazy."  Brilliant argument.

 

3 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

The catch 22 is you talking about people not feeling the same way as you and should deal with it.

Is this one of those "you should be tolerant of my intolerance" arguments? We don't call you lazy or elitist or anything nasty for not using carrier. You come in here and say "why are all you so lazy" and then get offended when I say to stop disrespecting us. Just because you have a different opinion doesn't mean you have the right to call us names.