Dev Stream 80: Carrier Changes feedback thread [Megathread]

[Azrael]

Hey guys, in case you missed it, Rebecca said that they were "reconsidering" the vacuum split. Here's the thread.

 

 

So they seemed to have heard us! Now we just have to see whether they'll listen.

[Mak_Gohae]

1 hour ago, ObviousLee said:

pretty sure they're using their idea. dunno why the hell people always assume that the devs are following player visiions.

Well, when they say they read the board and take the feedback and use it, that gives the impression of this.

When you give that exact suggestion and it suddenly pops up, doesnt that look like they read it somewhere?

 

 

[ObviousLee]

17 minutes ago, Mak_Gohae said:

Well, when they say they read the board and take the feedback and use it, that gives the impression of this.

When you give that exact suggestion and it suddenly pops up, doesnt that look like they read it somewhere?

 

 

may look that way, hell it may even be that way. I can't really say for certain, and I'd like to apoliogise in the event that i came across as being crass, as that was not the intended case. However, regardless if it's your idea they're using, or it's their own, i still see it as a positive change in the grand scheme of things. So, if it's your idea theyr'e using, hats off to ya.

[Demon.King]

2 hours ago, BulletsforTeeth said:

Now this, both players and DE could agree upon. I'm not sure if there's any precedent for something like this in mods yet, though. Might take a fair bit of work, tying separate things to rank.

It would probably take no more time than splitting the function into 3 + adding 2 mods + modifying drop tables to fit said mods.

[LemongrabEarl]

Pointless and misguided. I use carrier because I disliked running around for all the drops. Now it's being split up into specific selections, curated pickups? Hay sucks, I like picking up everything and not looking back.

I don't use any other sentinel or companion because it is just so easy to go with carrier for all my loot collecting needs. This change will see my return to scrambling around for loot... I won't have a big problem with that, I've done it plenty, but why the breakup at all? Just make all Tenno absorb loot within a specific radius. Then the change to Carrier is fine, it becomes a replacement for ammo mutators. I prefer that to looking around for hidden loot stuck in walls, the air, anywhere I've already been.

I don't see why we should have to put up with refitting existing setups in other sentinels in order to accept this change. New precepts means less space for tanky mods. I like tanky sentinels... I'm sure it's a small change, this may not be the popular opinion on Carrier or Vaccum, but it's my input on it. 

TL;DR: proposed change to Vaccum sounds bad, if this is how it's going, just remove the power and grant Tenno a localized loot singularity.

[Xarteros]

On 17/09/2016 at 7:27 PM, Trichouette said:

Even though I like the ideas, I don't like using "mod" to fix a feature.

All I truly want is a "attack target" command for my kubrow/kavat, like pressing G while looking at a nulifier and the kubrow/kavat charges into the bubble to destroy him.

I also fully support having manual commands for your companions, but the ideas I posted are a bit above that. The two ideas can work together seamlessly, all my suggestion does is change their default behaviour and limit the usage of some of their abilities.

[bl4ckhunter]

I might be cynical but in just in case i'll say this, the new loot looks really pretty and i'm sure everyone appreciates the effort, but it doesn't fix the issue with players not wanting to pick it up piece by piece, don't even think it does. Just don't.

[WNxSpectre]

Why nerf the carrier?

You want to kill it?  Because this idea sounds like a carrier killer. 

I barely ever even use my carrier.  Shade is far more effective in combat situations. 

Why would you want to split its one good power into 3 mods?  You can be sure that sentinel will end up in the scrap heap piles of nerfed garbage.

Its hard enough to find a decent sentinel to use rather than a Kubrow or Kavat.

Nerfing Carrier is a terrible idea.  I strongly suggest that DE rethink this plan. 

As Lemongrab said above, why not just give Tenno a passive AoE of attraction for loot, so its not such a pain in the butt to run over the stuff.  Then you could rethink carrier's power.  Something along the lines of ammo mutation abilities would make carrier useful enough to get selected, but not necessarily overused if the mutation % rate is set correctly. 

Also the carrier could increase maximum ammo capacity for all weapons.

 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2016 by WNxSpectre

[Volinus7]

Tenno have strong magnetic power to stick to the wall but can't attract items on their own.

- Space ninja logic 2016 -

[Azrael]

2 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

Tenno have strong magnetic power to stick to the wall but can't attract items on their own.

- Space ninja logic 2016 -

See you can tell that those two things are completely unrelated, because the names for them sound totally different.  :)

[Morgul]

Please remove vacuum as a mod and just add this vacuum ability to all warframes. I want to have same fun from pure gameplay regardless what "companion" i use.

[eyva]

I'd like to suggest that you keep vacuum as a carrier only mod make it maybe higher rarity so it does all three for carrier and it should have better range then the other three mods. That way you can have the other three mods for people who want shade loot suckers at a lesser strength. I love the idea of the mutation carrier. He totally feels like a support companion and that would kick his support up a notch for those bullet spraying moments. 

[NLRose]

this is a terrible idea, Its nice too move the vacuum off carrier, but it does not need to be split into three parts, just make the vacuum mode we have now fit on all sentinels. or ells make the new carrier precept include all three vacuum mods and we will all go back to using nothing but carrier. I would rather not have anything change than be forced to downgrade my sentinel to fit an ability I already had.

I like the idea behind the new precept tho, but it seems kind of redundant with amo-mutation mods on your weapons.

[Noquiem]

My idea is removing vacuum mods altogether(bear with me)  instead have universal passive for vacuuming credits/mods/blueprints/parts/endo/rare resource.

• Credits/mods/blueprints/parts/endo/rare resource: There is absolutely no reason as to not pick these up for any reason for the player so not having to scour for them is detrimental only for credit/endo gain balance(and we have plenty of credit drains that DE can regulate to keep that in check, endo gains also need credits and therefore can be regulated that way). Additionally I believe most of those running carrier for vacuum mostly don't want to lose out on these unique drops because rng had them go OoB or scattered on a defense map(only my opinion of course so may differ).
• Ammo/energy/health: These are all "resources" that you need to manage solely in a mission and as such a "pick em all up" means being skillful at not wasting ammo/energy/health has no significant effect(which it should) rewarding skillful players. Spamming pads to compensate gives less skillful players a way to make up for their lack, but have a detriment for doing so inciting improving their skill at managing their ammo/energy/health and therefore their general gameplay skill.
• Crafting resources: The new resource caches can be(if DE balances em right) great for people seeking to farm a specific resource en mass, leaving the other resources in enemy drop tables but with no way of vacuuming then means you would still mark rarer resources as you do now if your squad specifically wants it, but with no way of vacuuming them and them being superbly replenish-able it isn't a significant loss if you miss some of them.

There are some nitpicks with rewarding players to actually enter locked/secret rooms etc but can be balanced in some fashion or another. The new sculptures/stars being pickup only is a way of rewarding those taking extra effort to enter those areas I guess.

Edited September 23, 2016 by Firas55556

[MegatronG1]

I think we just need more mod slots for companions, otherwise we need a separate loadout that is for companion abilities and another for companion utility mods.

[DiabolusUrsus]

It's time to stop this silly notion that our gear can be balanced by convenience. The community has a lot of good ideas, and it wouldn't hurt to take some of them verbatim, on occasion. Universal vacuum is one of those good ideas.

Is Warframe playable without vacuum? Yes.

Does vacuum make picking up loot and ammunition a lot less cumbersome and stifling? Absolutely.

Is it overpowered? Not in the slightest. It's a quality-of-life feature, and it should speak volumes about the game that a quality-of-life feature wins over the vast majority of a community so dedicated to the min-maxing DPS meta.

Just give us a universal vacuum.

That said, give us "specialized" vacuums as well just to spice things up.

Universal: Identical to how it is now.

Specialized: Picks up a narrower variety of items, but offers increased range, and lowered mod capacity cost.

Thus, people who just want vacuum can use it as it is... and people who only see vacuum as part of a "build" can tinker with it.

[magusat999]

I agree with Universal Vacuum, even 3 years ago many in the community wanted that. there is too much going on to make people have to focus on running around every little spot picking up items.

I DO NOT agree with splitting it into 3 mods. that is just an inconvenient idea at best. For ONCE just make a simple QoL change and don't over complicate it with some over-reaching clunkiness. You asked our opinion - how about acting on it for once in about 2 years? Carrier is just fine - but if you want to give vacuum to all Sentinels (actually you should have just gave that to Warframe's innately and gave the Sentinels other support powers in the first place), go ahead - but do not touch Carrier!

I say that but I know you are going to do it anyway because you always ask us what we think and then totally throw our thoughts in the trash can. i don't know why you even ask, because your going to do it anyways. I've already reduced my play time - lets see if this is enough to just take me all the way out...

 

Oh - and how about responding to us asking for clarity on what actually is going to happen to Carrier? Why so cloudy on that topic?

Edited September 24, 2016 by magusat999

[kristophy]

a lot of people are saying make Vacuum a passive and i have to sort of agree. a small 2 meter maybe even 3 meter passive.

then make 3 simple mods that can be used on any thing and do not have polarities 1 the bronze mod vacuum picks up all loot. 2 the silver mod picks up all health and energy orbs and the gold mod picks up both. this way resource grind is not a killer. and people who like to hunt for things can as well. making every one happy? also make it so that vacuum has a set max range so people do not just use vacuum on every thing XD

Edited September 25, 2016 by kristophy

[Vanrythzx]

 here you can see @15m about vacuum change's 

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Jtv5D2o1Wc&sns=em

Completely lists and breaks down what everyone is thinking about the Vacuum change.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Jtv5D2o1Wc&sns=em

Completely lists and breaks down what everyone is thinking about the Vacuum change.

That's a horrible suggestion. Giving use a toggle for every single item would be a huge amount of work for DE and incredibly micromanage-y, which would only get worse and worse as time went on and more and more was introduced.

At best, if they made it universal on Warframes with toggles, the toggles should be the 3 separations that DE suggested as possible mods, and all of the toggles should be on by default.

But just to be clear, having 3 separate vacuums taking up 3 slots on sentinels is the worst possible option. 

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

On September 25, 2016 at 2:03 PM, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

That's a horrible suggestion. Giving use a toggle for every single item would be a huge amount of work for DE and incredibly micromanage-y, which would only get worse and worse as time went on and more and more was introduced.

At best, if they made it universal on Warframes with toggles, the toggles should be the 3 separations that DE suggested as possible mods, and all of the toggles should be on by default.

But just to be clear, having 3 separate vacuums taking up 3 slots on sentinels is the worst possible option. 

Yeah, I agree that Brozime's concluding "Ideal" universal vacuum suggestions are pretty farfetched. The solution should just be simpler, not the convoluted changes/dissections DE's planning for Vacuum. Vacuum, in of itself conceptually, is not broken. It doesn't need further "fixing." It just needs to be made available for other Sentinels or Companions, or just be made available universally as an integral feature to pick up mods.

[-.E.-]

So, um... carrier what carries now, then? Operator? LOL

[Azrael]

1 hour ago, dreamquest said:

It's pointless,

Your post is also pointless, since they already said they changed their minds and will be providing vacuum innately to all sentinals with no mods.

[(XBOX)ashes of suvius]

2 hours ago, Azrael said:

Your post is also pointless, since they already said they changed their minds and will be providing vacuum innately to all sentinals with no mods.

when did this get said? A stream? Twitter? I havent seen it on the forums. I'd just like to verify. And it'd be nice if they bothered to make a post about this in the megathread on the topic, if indeed what you are saying is true.