The NItain Extract Problem

[DTest]

this may get a bit ranty so bear with me but i feel like i am not the only one who has issue with how this works. Nitain Extract is a resource that is only available every 4 hours, is untradeable, unable to be bought on the marketplace, and though is dropped in sabotage missions, the drop rate is impossibly low. the issue that i have with all this is for casual players, the players who can only devote maybe an hour or 2 a day. at first it really wasn't a problem cause not alot used nitain in its blueprints but recently i have been seeing it more and more, specifically things like primes which is where the issue lies. for someone with a  work schedule like mine, i don't have the time to sit around for 4 hours to wait for one of these alerts to pop only to receive one at a time. this is slows the game to a halt for me in certain areas. i have a bunch of things in my foundry i would love to build but no nitain to start the process. i am sitting on saryn prime's last piece which i would LOVE to build and use but i can't get this frame because my schedule doesn't allow for it.

 

this saddens me that the devs would but in a now increasingly important resource with very prohibitive and restrictive conditions to obtain. atleast stick it in the marketplace so players like me can just spend the money if need be to build the things we want to build rather than hoping when you log in that the window for the alert is there while you are. i feel like a chunk of the game is now closed off to me and other players because of this and is honestly turning me away with each new blueprint i see using the extract. i was wondering if devs are even looking at this as a potential problem, because it is something that really needs addressing

Edited October 4, 2016 by DTest

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

It's a timewall that is suppose to bait players into spending more time playing.

Like how a casino IRL doesn't put clocks on the walls; it's so you don't know what time it is...to keep you playing.

I wouldn't expect the current nitain system to change any time soon.

[DTest]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)Magician_NG said:

It's a timewall that is suppose to bait players into spending more time playing.

Like how a casino IRL doesn't put clocks on the walls; it's so you don't know what time it is...to keep you playing.

I wouldn't expect the current nitain system to change any time soon.

then it is purposely prohibitive and a terrible business decision by any means. a player of a game should at no point feel held back by a mechanic of the game. there is no fun in that and drives them away. cause now i have all this stuff and no way to make it. i wonder what DE is thinking these days

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

1 minute ago, DTest said:

then it is purposely prohibitive and a terrible business decision by any means. a player of a game should at no point feel held back by a mechanic of the game. there is no fun in that and drives them away. cause now i have all this stuff and no way to make it. i wonder what DE is thinking these days

I think nitain was more of a Leyou decision than it was DE's decision, to sprinkle a little more grind into the mix.

It wouldn't surprise me, although it's nothing more than supposition on my part.

I'd have to dig back and compare dates, the acquisition of DE by Leyou and the introduction of nitain.

[direcyphre]

5 minutes ago, DTest said:

then it is purposely prohibitive and a terrible business decision by any means. a player of a game should at no point feel held back by a mechanic of the game. there is no fun in that and drives them away. cause now i have all this stuff and no way to make it. i wonder what DE is thinking these days

All things are 'purposefully prohibited' because if the player had everything, there would be nothing to work towards. It is a pretty basic construct of all F2P games.

I barely play at all these days but see Nitain alerts frequently enough. However, I'm obviously not trying to farm and build something in the same day.

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Magician_NG said:

I think nitain was more of a Leyou decision than it was DE's decision, to sprinkle a little more grind into the mix.

It wouldn't surprise me, although it's nothing more than supposition on my part.

I'd have to dig back and compare dates, the acquisition of DE by Leyou and the introduction of nitain.

If the 'introduction' of nitain occurred at the same point as the stock acquisition, then it would have been created some time prior to it. However, the Chinese build is entirely separate so that is a whole lot of supposition.

[Sloan441]

Do alerts.

Stockpile nitain.

No problem.

[DTest]

1 minute ago, Sloan441 said:

Do alerts.

Stockpile nitain.

No problem.

apparently you just gleaned the OP where that is an issue

[Sloan441]

It's more of a mindset.

Do the alerts whenever you can, whether you actually need the stuff or not. It WILL get used at some point.

Stockpile the stuff. This comes down to the 7Ps: proper prior planning prevents piss poor performance.

Then when something you want requires it, you're set and you can spare the community another nitain complaint thread.

[taiiat]

Nitain should be 5% in higher Level Reactor Sabotage (and therefore 2.5% in lower Level), absolutely.

probably won't happen for a while though. took quite some complaining for it to be anywhere in the game in the first place. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[_Vortus_]

GIVE ME INSTANT GRATIFICATION OR I QUIT.    A lot of that disease going on currently.   If in that much of a hurry, buy it.   If cannot afford it, then run for whatever is selling, sell it, then buy it.  

[Xzorn]

I'm a bit surprised they aren't in the market for 100p each or something.

But the wait wall isn't that bad and you can just buy many of the items with plat anyways.

The whole "I gots werk" only applies to Prime Sets, of which there are only 2,  I believe.

 

[RealPandemonium]

http://deathsnacks.com/wf/

Edited October 5, 2016 by RealPandemonium

[DTest]

19 hours ago, _Vortus_ said:

GIVE ME INSTANT GRATIFICATION OR I QUIT.    A lot of that disease going on currently.   If in that much of a hurry, buy it.   If cannot afford it, then run for whatever is selling, sell it, then buy it.  

i dont want instant gratification. i dont mind earning it but it should be more options to obtain or have it tradeable at the very least. 

[Gr33hn]

7 minutes ago, DTest said:

i dont want instant gratification. i dont mind earning it but it should be more options to obtain or have it tradeable at the very least. 

As a busy man myself with not a lot of spare time the best advice I can give you is follow the WF alerts twitter, getting notified when an alert occurs will let you catch a few more like the ones that for example occur during breakfast or notifies you so you can hurry home and catch the last 5 minutes of one, etc.

[k05h]

19 hours ago, _Vortus_ said:

GIVE ME INSTANT GRATIFICATION OR I QUIT.    A lot of that disease going on currently.   If in that much of a hurry, buy it.   If cannot afford it, then run for whatever is selling, sell it, then buy it.  

That is part of the problem. But it is too easy to just blame it on the one that quit. I really do not understand why a studio would want to make someone quit with strange resource decisions when there are so many other great games out there. They could even make some money from nitain. 

Solutions: Let those of us that have only limited time and limited time slots for playing buy nitain for plat. Or let Baro bring nitain. Or let Darvo sell 2-3 nitain every once in a while. 

[shadow0727]

19 hours ago, Xzorn said:

I'm a bit surprised they aren't in the market for 100p each or something.

But the wait wall isn't that bad and you can just buy many of the items with plat anyways.

The whole "I gots werk" only applies to Prime Sets, of which there are only 2,  I believe.

 

While i do understand your point, and i disagree with the whole Instant Gratification BS thats happening right now, there are more than just primes that require Nitain Extract (Wukong for example)

 

It would be nice if they were at least purchasable at a premium, for those who wish to waste their money instead of actually playing the game the way its meant to be played

[Birdframe_Prime]

19 hours ago, _Vortus_ said:

GIVE ME INSTANT GRATIFICATION OR I QUIT.    A lot of that disease going on currently.   If in that much of a hurry, buy it.   If cannot afford it, then run for whatever is selling, sell it, then buy it.  

I have to say I have the same problem as OP, I have a limited two, maybe three hours a day where I can play a game, if I have time to play at all. (It's my only free time, I have to choose between other games, reading, writing, art, TV, getting an early night, learning a new recipe, any other kind of free time activity in that time, so balancing my game time is difficult with the other things I might want to do.) Most tellingly, they are the same two hours every day. The chances of a Nitain alert dropping in those two hours is low enough in their 24hr rotation already, but only being able to play a game maybe four, at most five times in a week, during those same two hours, makes for a very, very low chance.

In practice, when Vauban Prime was released, I was able to farm up and gain his parts pretty early on, a few of weeks of logging on at the same time, running for parts and farming in general, netted me all his parts, and all the parts for the Fragor and Akstiletto. However in those weeks I was able to actively participate in a grand total of five Nitain Alerts. I could only build one part of him. It was a further two months before my schedule allowed me to finally build the last piece despite having the blueprints and farming enough oxium three times over.

And it's not just Vauban, it's two parts of Saryn, it's in the Research for every part of Wukong, it's in Nekros Prime, in Ivara, in helmets for Atlas, Wukong, Ivara and Nezha, it's in Titania, in the War the Destreza and the base Quest Key for Inaros. There's a lot of Nitain needed throughout the game already, if you wanted to just build everything that needs it you need 74. And if it takes someone like myself, who plays regularly for short amounts of time, but always that same short amount of time, who takes around 3 months to garner a measly 20 Nitain? That's a steep hill to climb.

I think there's a big difference between the want-it-now crowd and those of us with an actual limit on our game time.

[Xzorn]

30 minutes ago, shadow0727 said:

While i do understand your point, and i disagree with the whole Instant Gratification BS thats happening right now, there are more than just primes that require Nitain Extract (Wukong for example)

 

It would be nice if they were at least purchasable at a premium, for those who wish to waste their money instead of actually playing the game the way its meant to be played

 

You can buy everything outside of those Prime frames with plat directly from the market. That's my point.

 

I've done all my Dojo Shadow Clan research 100% myself, built every helm and made every item already. It's not that bad.

Hell I only did the Exterminate and Capture alerts for Nitain past the first month.

I'm surprised it's not on the market but it's likely because they want you to spend more on the item itself.

I would agree that a Daily Quest for Nitain would prolly help the situation while still accomplishing a similar business plan.

 

 

[Carnage2K4]

So I'm trying to both get into New Loka and make my Vauban Prime... 

[_Vortus_]

Primes are a little better, no doubt.   Some of the other stuff needing nitain is cool, also no argument from me.  However, is it worth quitting or even getting mad over...    Not to me at any rate.   If you want it, it takes however long it takes.   Just use the normal one until you can build the prime or other items you need in the meantime if that frame is what you want to play.   But, aside from wanting it does it impact game play or is it just filling a need to have it.  

Seeing it in my clan as well, seeing people complain that they cannot build their Vauban P yet have not even bothered with the regular versions of the frame.   Same people complaining about lack of things to do yet they themselves have not completed the base game, let alone the primes. 

If not willing to be patient, buy it is what I tell them as well.   Non prime frames and fashion items are on the market, primes are in trade.   And Nitain can get acquired from Void sabotage.    So there are options for those that absolutely cannot wait.

 

[-NightNeko-]

On 04.10.2016 at 7:31 PM, DTest said:

Why Nitain Extract is not added in Market :?

 

 

[(PSN)wildcats1369my]

On 05/10/2016 at 11:14 PM, Thaylien said:

I have to say I have the same problem as OP, I have a limited two, maybe three hours a day where I can play a game, if I have time to play at all. (It's my only free time, I have to choose between other games, reading, writing, art, TV, getting an early night, learning a new recipe, any other kind of free time activity in that time, so balancing my game time is difficult with the other things I might want to do.) Most tellingly, they are the same two hours every day. The chances of a Nitain alert dropping in those two hours is low enough in their 24hr rotation already, but only being able to play a game maybe four, at most five times in a week, during those same two hours, makes for a very, very low chance.

In practice, when Vauban Prime was released, I was able to farm up and gain his parts pretty early on, a few of weeks of logging on at the same time, running for parts and farming in general, netted me all his parts, and all the parts for the Fragor and Akstiletto. However in those weeks I was able to actively participate in a grand total of five Nitain Alerts. I could only build one part of him. It was a further two months before my schedule allowed me to finally build the last piece despite having the blueprints and farming enough oxium three times over.

And it's not just Vauban, it's two parts of Saryn, it's in the Research for every part of Wukong, it's in Nekros Prime, in Ivara, in helmets for Atlas, Wukong, Ivara and Nezha, it's in Titania, in the War the Destreza and the base Quest Key for Inaros. There's a lot of Nitain needed throughout the game already, if you wanted to just build everything that needs it you need 74. And if it takes someone like myself, who plays regularly for short amounts of time, but always that same short amount of time, who takes around 3 months to garner a measly 20 Nitain? That's a steep hill to climb.

I think there's a big difference between the want-it-now crowd and those of us with an actual limit on our game time.

I think it is fair.
there are people who plays this game for a long time and they get what they need fast.
there are people who spend real money so they get the mods fas ( case of Inaro, Nezha )

You think it will be fair if you can get these items as fast as other people?
You said it yourself you are able to get the though at a snails pace, it is not impossible.

I know it is harsh to have a limited game time but that is how it is. your improvement on certain things depends on how much time you spend on it. ( not just in WF )

[Birdframe_Prime]

2 hours ago, (PS4)wildcats1369my said:

I think it is fair.
there are people who plays this game for a long time and they get what they need fast.
there are people who spend real money so they get the mods fas ( case of Inaro, Nezha )

You think it will be fair if you can get these items as fast as other people?
You said it yourself you are able to get the though at a snails pace, it is not impossible.

I know it is harsh to have a limited game time but that is how it is. your improvement on certain things depends on how much time you spend on it. ( not just in WF )

That's a fine opinion to have, I'm not going to discount it. You think it's fair, fine.

But here's the flat principle; for the same amount of hours, I should have the same amount of gain. Correct? Or more, if I buy a booster. If I pay even more money, I can outright buy the content when it's released. After that, maybe trade for it. That's fine. Because you either pay a price, or you put the time in and grind.

That is not the case with Nitain. It is only since update 18.5 that Nitain has been made available anywhere else in the game, and it's a rare reward for Reactor Sabotage. Before that, it was only available through the Alerts. And even running nothing but reactor sabotage missions, you are not guaranteed a drop, so the only sure way to get one is an Alert.

So here's the explanation of my view, I'll put it in the spoiler below, so it's not taking up the full space with a wall of rant. My opinion differs, and I thought you should understand why.

Spoiler

If you check my comment, I didn't say I play less hours in Warframe, I said I play less hours in a day. That's the key here, and likely the same issue with the OP.

I have nearly 900 hours in Warframe. I have played this game for years and continue to play regularly now, and every time they introduce something new, there's a grind. I have traded for plat, I have even paid for some, and I've used it to go faster when I need to, because my day-to-day play is not as high as somebody who can just pick an evening or a weekend and blitz a few hours away.

The grind is always there in Warframe, but there's a key difference between there being a grind delay and there being an RNG function to whether the actual content is there or not. It's not a delay, it's not something that functions the same way as the other content, it's basically a punishment for those of us who, while active and regular players, have a strict schedule and a limited window of play.

For example, did you know that in the last six months of play I have not seen a single alert for the parts of Vauban? The frame that is only available as Alert and Login rewards? Not one. Saw his alternate helmets pop up a couple of times, but the main components? Not once.

One of the key concepts about warframe is that all the content is there in equal amounts for players, and that hours played is all it takes to make sure you have the content.

Now, imagine this situation; a person with more flexibility in their day can pick up the game four times a week for an hour one day, four hours the next, three hours another, and a whole six hours afternoon on one of weekend days. In that week, because of him having the extended six hours, he nets a guaranteed Nitain on that weekend, if not more, because there is no chance that the alert will not pop up in that six hour window, and the same with the four hour play earlier. That's a guaranteed two Nitain a week for 14 hours, and maybe more. Me, playing the same two hours a night for seven days a week, is a different story, because there is no guarantee that Nitain alerts will drop in that two hour window. It could appear before, or after, and still be in that 'every four hours' time slot without touching my screen. For 14 hours, I am guaranteed no Nitain. The same time in, not the same result out.

That's a very big difference in progression, especially if the player doesn't have items for trade or money for Plat.

And there's the problem, you said yourself: there are people who play this game for a long time to get what they need, and there are people who spend real money to go faster.

Nitain is not guaranteed for the same hours played. I have literal proof of that. And neither can it be paid for to go faster with real money.

That right there is what is not fair to the player base.

In any case, locking content away behind a random generated chance works fine if it's not a random drop inside of a time-lock. Saying that you guarantee a certain number of drops in a set amount of time is great, if the user-base can all spend the same amount of time in one sitting to get it.

This is why systems like the new Ayatan Sculptures one works better, because you get a guaranteed mission once in a set time, but after that it's all random chance, and you can always fail the mission.

As a theory, how's this:

If Nitain alerts were one guaranteed mission per set number of daily logins, that would mean that a regular player was guaranteed to get one or two a week, with the RNG relating to the drops on the Sabotage missions, and the people that play less often then progress slower. A procedurally generated alert that appeared on every n'th login, and simply said that on X planet, X node, there will be a guaranteed reward of Nitain for that player would be all that's needed. As long as the planet was unlocked, even if the node wasn't, the mission would be there and able to be attempted. You have a time lock, but it's not a random one based on it.

Everybody gets the same amount of attempts per logins, so the same amount of days played means the same amount of attempts, but the specific hours of play can be more forgiving. So if you don't have the time in a day to level up a syndicate, a weapon, unlock nodes, go for a fun-run with your friends, trade, gain Conclave affinity, go Focus Farming, grind for a few thousand polymer bundles... and then try to grind a dozen reactor sabotages for Nitain (and still quite easily not get the resource), you can simply keep playing, login a few more days, and then get that 'alert' drop when you login the fourth or fifth time.

Would that be a better concept?

[Carnage2K4]

On 10/5/2016 at 3:45 AM, Sloan441 said:

It's more of a mindset.

Do the alerts whenever you can, whether you actually need the stuff or not. It WILL get used at some point.

Stockpile the stuff. This comes down to the 7Ps: proper prior planning prevents piss poor performance.

Then when something you want requires it, you're set and you can spare the community another nitain complaint thread.

lol... Work, also just a mindset... Family, obviously just a mindset... Life is a mindset... the general obscurity with with your toss around this stuff ridiculious...

[Sloan441]

26 minutes ago, Carnage2K4 said:

lol... Work, also just a mindset... Family, obviously just a mindset... Life is a mindset... the general obscurity with with your toss around this stuff ridiculious...

Nah, it's how you deal with things.

What's ridiculous is whining about something so trivial.