The Vacuum Within: Universal Vacuum Feedback

[Guest]

i bought with real cash the primed carrier because of ? what you think, DE ? =)) you know the answer

i feel bad about downgrading a primed sentinel and what would be the next word for giving good and midst into creating something which takes away the quality and quantity i bought because you offered it without telling me that smth could be changed ?

please give me back the primed carrier i bought with real cash, thank you, do it as soon as possible please and i dont wanna discuss this and im not willing to get the result ongoing as i got it with the update yesterday, thx for understanding the issue with the primed carrier you created and i say: NO ! cant accept it

next theme:

great that all sentinels get vaccuum, not great is that i need to fix now a lot of confusion and i need lots of ressources if i wanna make the weapons of the different sentinels really powerfull

i have to farm a lot of ressources, i have to double mods, because i cant use one mod for 2 weapons - carrierweapons and the 2 other weapons i use -  the same time and i wanna play as i want, i dont wanna be limited by your development anymore, DE, and i dont wanna spend hours in rethinking core-gamemechanics on and on, its an excess i dont have time for, i need to work for having money for supporting warframe with real cash successfully since i started to play (i really dont care what others here think or do, im talking about general ECONOMY BEHAVING to keep the economy on a functional level, mostly we are talking here about warframe)

and i dont wanna farm the hell out of me and spend hours of time because of your development, on and on, i need and needed a point TO PLAY warframe, not be forced to farm, grind and spend tons of time and cash to get the best out of your offer (even that i did it allready)

so i come to the point using only one sentinel which is the best for me, the carrier prime, most of the other sentinels miss something or i dont like the design or its about the noise of the weapon i dont like, finally, i dont need diversity, i have also a few pets instead of using the sentinels

so, as a primepackbuyer since more then 2 years i was more then happy for the carrier prime and the pets

now since your announcement, and your result with the update yesterday and about the thread which is created for feedback and which is closed now i wrote my thoughts and feelings here

i really dont care personally going back to diversity on sentinels and for having a fully functional diversity after my years of playing i couldnt care less about diversity in sentinels (AGAIN), i am forced to choose the carrier prime and so please give me back the carrier prime sentinel i bought, i dont agrre with the update and i dont need any other sentinel anymore, i have the carrier prime and the pets

PLEASE DE ! i wanna play warframe and have fun as i have had till the end of 2015, stop forcing me to do smth i dont want and where you dont give me a chance to do what i want, thank you for understanding ^^)

ps: if have to make it shorter or clear understandable i should get a name where i have to write it, because you would not like my understanding of using friendly businesstalk after fooling me continously since a while, DE

think about your cashcows before you go on which you started ... choose wisely your next steps in all directions, and be trustworthy, DE, because right now i loose a lot of trust ... and if you go on as you did, too much real cash in a internetgame ^^) which i will NOT accept ...

im tired of this all

Edited October 6, 2016 by Guest

[(XBOX)ashes of suvius]

9 minutes ago, Cilleborg said:

This could be solved so easily. Make the old Vacuum mod a universel mod for all companions like Animal Instinct and such. Done deal.

this n 101 other better solutions are sitting in the megathread on vacuum and other places on the forum. If DE was listening at all to them, this predicament would've been solved before it started. Thats half of why theres such an outrage I'm afraid.

[LascarCapable]

Hey there, very small feedback.

So I just tried the new Vaccum Update. It's definitely nice to see that Carrier is not the only sentinel supporting thta vaccum ability. However I feel like it's a little bit too small. Current range is 6 meters right ? How about making it 8 meters ? It just feels a bit better to me.

Another suggestion : How about adding a mod that boosts the vaccum effect for sentinels ? Maybe up to +100%~+125% or something. This could be a good tradeoff to those who miss Carrier's original big vaccum range.

I look forward to see the universal vaccum changes applied to Kubrows and Kavast as well. :)

[NeithanDiniem]

1 hour ago, Azrael said:

I have agreed with some of your points regarding the correct use of numbers. We do not, in fact, know what percentage of players dislike the vacuum change, and we have no reason to suppose that it is anywwhere near as high as 80%. But this statement of yours is equally without evidence. In fact, I'm guessing that this is totally wrong, and that your comment is nothing more than an underhanded criticism of people who disagree with you. There are plenty of people that come to the forums and say positive things, and people criticizing a decision made by DE is not the same as "only going there to complain." You can't label criticisms as complaints just because you disagree with them, and you definitely can't blanket label forum goers that way.

Actually, the fact that people largely go to a feedback forum to complain about something they dislike is a known aspect in the game industry and is actually something taught to people looking to get into game development. Its taught to enforce people using statistical data to make decisions compared to vocal groups on the forums, who because they arrive and make a lot of posts expressing their dislike can give a poor representation on what the actual feelings of the whole community are. There are also extensive studies regarding people's actions on forums and complaining online. So yea... there really is factual info behind that.

This is also why DE is going to be leaving this for a time while they collect statistical usage data and feedback. The better feedback is not that which is done on the first day since that is when the ragers and basic complainers come out, but after people have time to step back from the issue and analyze the situation while calm or more informed on the changes.

[(PSN)wildcats1369my]

37 minutes ago, Azrael said:

This is a surprisingly apt description of what's going on right now.

but what if i have 5 or more children?

ill be happy with that ill be jumping if i have 10 children

[RiouHotaru]

38 minutes ago, Aurea_Hiigara said:

Imagine that you have a wife and two children. You are the only one in the family that makes any money, but you make 500,000 dollars a year.

Your boss thinks it's sad that no one else in your family makes any money, so he decides to be generous. He gives everyone in your family a yearly wage of 75,000 dollars!

Including you.

How would that make you feel?

But this is wrong.  This is so wrong in fact I actually logged in to point this out.  The fact you're so grossly misrepresenting what's going on is disappointing to say the least.

Let's make this analogy actually work, without misusing math, shall we?

You make 500k a year.  Wife and 2 kids currently make nothing.

Boss decides to be generous and give everyone a yearly salary equal to half what you made (See what I did there?  The change from 12m to 6m is HALF, not this BS fraction you tried to pass as representative of the balance change.  Math goddamnit).

This means that you, individually, make 250k.  A shame, because it's less.

But now the wife and 2 kids make 250k each.  Meaning the total income for the entire family is now a whopping 1,000,000.

Individually, the change is less.  But taken as a whole, it's an overall improvement.

And that is what happened here.

[Ozamchist]

1 minute ago, VonDodo said:

Tell me... how do you call a person that is happy when someone else has less fun even if that doesn t impact anyway its own fun?

Schadenfreude? Its a German borrowed word there's no original English equivalent. And no me, and I'll take a gamble that most of us, are not taking pleasure from your suffering if that's what your trying to imply. In my case I simply don't understand why this is such a big deal for people. This was a move made for balance and it works nicely but most of the time I get the feeling that many in this community  wouldn't know what balance meant if a pair of scales holding yin yangs of equal wieght landed in their laps.

[NeithanDiniem]

1 hour ago, letir said:

6) Yeah, because ~80% of Carrier users is not a majority, because you say so. Of course.

Here you are again, claiming that 80% of the carrier users disagree with the change. This is the kind of thing people should stop. You don't have the numbers at all to back up that claim. It makes your post end on a ill-informed note. Until you can go and ask every single person that used carrier in the past month and make a pole about what their feelings are about the change you can not make any such claim regarding that.

Edited October 6, 2016 by NeithanDiniem

[AperoBeltaTwo]

21 minutes ago, kuliise said:

Personally, I think having map-wide vacuum for archwing would be great. It'd make more people interested in playing it, and since the mods are so tiny and the maps are so huge, that way no one needs to worry about missing a mod. It'd not going to break archwing, just make it more fun by removing one annoying aspect of it. 

I'm not gonna argue against that - it's one way to do the thing. For me I personally believe that's not necessary and wider vacuum radius would be enough, but the whole picking up items thing was never really fun. It compensates for the lack of actual engaging gameplay in the missions but in a very tedious way. And people expressed their distaste by playing with  the carrier only. Unfortunately DE interpreted it the wrong way.

[akira_him]

47 minutes ago, Aurea_Hiigara said:

Imagine that you have a wife and two children. You are the only one in the family that makes any money, but you make 500,000 dollars a year.

Your boss thinks it's sad that no one else in your family makes any money, so he decides to be generous. He gives everyone in your family a yearly wage of 75,000 dollars!

Including you.

How would that make you feel?

and you are the only could make good use of the money and contributibg to the society 

[Trichouette]

They already buffed it from the initial 5m, you're asking for too much :D

Still, adding vacuum on all sentinel won't help them being as used as carrier, considering its stats & sweeper's damage.

If only frames had this passive instead of sentinels.

[Azrael]

8 minutes ago, RiouHotaru said:

And that is what happened here.

Uh, what? Are you suggesting that vacuum actually got buffed because each of the 7 sentinals (not counting primes/prismas) have 6m range and 6*7 is 42? You do realize this has no relation to what's going on at all, right? Nobody has a 42m vacuum.

@Aurea_Hiigara's scenario is apt because DE saw that we wanted our children/sentinals to have some vacuum too, so they nerfed vacuum and gave a worse version to every sentinal. Now everyone gets vacuum, but nobody can get their old vacuum anymore.

 

*Edit: you said that the change is only less individually. But individually is all that matters, because you can only take one sentinal at a time. If my current sentinal does a bad job of vacuuming, it is no consolation to me that I could use a different sentinal and get an equally bad vacuum.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Azrael

[(XBOX)ashes of suvius]

3 minutes ago, RiouHotaru said:

But this is wrong.  This is so wrong in fact I actually logged in to point this out.  The fact you're so grossly misrepresenting what's going on is disappointing to say the least.

Let's make this analogy actually work, without misusing math, shall we?

You make 500k a year.  Wife and 2 kids currently make nothing.

Boss decides to be generous and give everyone a yearly salary equal to half what you made (See what I did there?  The change from 12m to 6m is HALF, not this BS fraction you tried to pass as representative of the balance change.  Math goddamnit).

This means that you, individually, make 250k.  A shame, because it's less.

But now the wife and 2 kids make 250k each.  Meaning the total income for the entire family is now a whopping 1,000,000.

Individually, the change is less.  But taken as a whole, it's an overall improvement.

And that is what happened here.

the range being half does not equal half of the effect, its effective pickup area at 6 is less than a fifth of what it is at 12, thus his comparison is far more accurate.

[Silvus-Sol]

2 hours ago, BulletsforTeeth said:

It's not white knighting. We simply don't agree that this is a horrible choice. I don't. Sure, the range could use some adjusting, but it shouldn't be quite the same range as before. There has to be some kind of tradeoff for it being innate and universal to sentinals. Maybe 8-9 meters, give or take .5

No, there doesn't have to be a trade off. Look at it this way, Vacuum being Carrier exclusive was the only real problem with Vacuum. Making Vacuum universal isn't buffing it, it is fixing it. And it's not even properly fixed yet as Kubrows and Kavats are still left out.

The range reduction was completely unjustified and unnecessary.

[WhiteMarker]

4 minutes ago, RiouHotaru said:

(See what I did there?  The change from 12m to 6m is HALF, not this BS fraction you tried to pass as representative of the balance change.  Math goddamnit).

It's hilarious if someone talking about math doesn't understand the fact Vacuum works in a sphere and not on a line. So if the radius is changed with a factor of 2, the volume of the sphere changes with a factor of 8. That's math.
So yeah... you are wrong here and not the other guy. ;-)

[(XBOX)ashes of suvius]

Just now, Silvus-Sol said:

No, there doesn't have to be a trade off. Look at it this way, Vacuum being Carrier exclusive was the only real problem with Vacuum. Making Vacuum universal isn't buffing it, it is fixing it. And it's not even properly fixed yet as Kubrows and Kavats are still left out.

The range reduction was completely unjustified and unnecessary.

ditto

[AperoBeltaTwo]

2 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

Here you are again, claiming that every single one of the carrier users disagree with the change. This is the kind of thing people should stop. You don't have the numbers at all to back up that claim. It makes your post end on a ill-informed note. Until you can go and ask every single person that used carrier in the past month and make a pole about what their feelings are about the change you can not make any such claim regarding that.

Stop trolling. Use basic sampling and observation skills. Most of the people who went "complaining" (as you put it) on the forums about the new vaccuum nerf dislike "the suck within" update. Amplify it to the rest of the community, and you'll get the 80%-ish we are talking about. The only ones who are fine with this new update are the guys who don't play the game anymore or trolls who are just playing forumframe endgame (since the lack of an actual endgame content in the actual game).

[Redthirst]

Answer me this - what exactly does having to walk over every piece of loot add to the game? There is no strategy for loot pickups, it's not Diablo. There is no reason NOT to pick everything that drops. All it does is slow the game down. A game that is supposed to be based on speed and acrobatics.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Redthirst

[Azrael]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)ashes of suvius said:

the range being half does not equal half of the effect, its effective pickup area at 6 is less than a fifth of what it is at 12, thus his comparison is far more accurate.

Oh yeah, this too. 6m is way, way less than half as effective as 12m.

[Urlan]

I can agree with that sentiment, though I don't think an additional mod should be used to improve it closer to its useful range. Putting the vacuum range closer to its original should be a practical improvement, while its nice that other Sentinels get to have one of the useful precepts, making Vacuum around the unranked version is somewhat underwhelming.

[LuckyCharm]

By that analogy can I have a second sentinel on my other shoulder, since even with all the changes to everything.. Its still a nerf since I can only use one at a time so buffing the rest of them didn't make a lick of difference when I physically can't use them to make up the range difference when they aren't with me. Yes I can cc things now while getting loot.. but isn't that what our frame powers are for? I think most of us just used carrier for it's extended pickup range. And now we can't do that which is why I'm crying NERF!

 

[Culaio]

16 minutes ago, TermiteFrame said:

Schadenfreude? Its a German borrowed word there's no original English equivalent. And no me, and I'll take a gamble that most of us, are not taking pleasure from your suffering if that's what your trying to imply. In my case I simply don't understand why this is such a big deal for people. This was a move made for balance and it works nicely but most of the time I get the feeling that many in this community  wouldn't know what balance meant if a pair of scales holding yin yangs of equal wieght landed in their laps.

Problem is that to many people gathering loot is distracting them from having FUN, I and many people hate gathering loot and now we will be forced to choose between having fun or gathering loot since I am very experianced at intergrating parkour with using weapons so I spend 70% of time 1-2 m above the ground and since vacuum range is a sphere the range on the ground will be actually half(or even less then that) of the 6 m they given us, this makes range almost no existant.

I am not going to change how I play the game because of change since its the ONLY way I can enjoy this game(parkour is the reason why I love this game so much), if I cant play the game in the way I have fun I will simply quit game, I already play this game less and less since recent changes(around time of draco removal, I didnt use it frequently, only 1-2 times a week, but it helped me a LOT leveling useless weapons to level where I can bring them to sorties), before I was playing 3+ hours a day now I only log in for sorties...

Edited October 6, 2016 by Culaio

[widenose]

The issue is that none of the stuff that other sentinels did, except maybe the shade, makes up for the loss of a 12m vacuum. Helios doesn't give simaris rep, and all the offensive ones are just trash with no range, not to mention redundant with the purpose of a frame to begin with. If the other sentinels actually did their job, it would be a welcome buff.

[RikerWatts]

2 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Stop trolling. Use basic sampling and observation skills. Most of the people who went "complaining" (as you put it) on the forums about the new vaccuum nerf dislike "the suck within" update. Amplify it to the rest of the community, and you'll get the 80%-ish we are talking about. The only ones who are fine with this new update are the guys who don't play the game anymore or trolls who are just playing forumframe endgame (since the lack of an actual endgame content in the actual game).

I'm with him in a fissure right now lmao
donald trump 2016 I'm the real troll of forums.

[NeithanDiniem]

5 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Stop trolling. Use basic sampling and observation skills. Most of the people who went "complaining" (as you put it) on the forums about the new vaccuum nerf dislike "the suck within" update. Amplify it to the rest of the community, and you'll get the 80%-ish we are talking about. The only ones who are fine with this new update are the guys who don't play the game anymore or trolls who are just playing forumframe endgame (since the lack of an actual endgame content in the actual game).

Sampling requires an unbiased, and typically uninformed group, not a group that is actively seeking to complain compared to the people who agree to the change not giving the time to go and tell the devs "Hey I like this change and heres why..." No they would rather go play the game. If you think that this is in any way, even remotely related to the distant capability of being an accurate way of taking a sample group, you are a fool who needs to go back and take a basic statistics course. You don't take a biased group, assume it is an accurate representation of the total, then estimate the rest of the community's feeling off of that.

Edited October 6, 2016 by NeithanDiniem