The Vacuum Within: Universal Vacuum Feedback

[notlamprey]

I'm not willing to accept a vacuum range nerf if we aren't getting any options that allow us to build for its original range.

I no longer have a way to play the game without devoting attention specifically to picking up all the loot, and that means my fun is gone. Vacuum was propping up a loot system that has serious flaws, and everyone loses with this change.

To deliberately exaggerate for effect, it makes the game feel like a loot-gathering sweatshop.

We're being forced to choose between enjoying the gameplay and fussing over every individual piece of loot. That's unacceptable.

DE need to do the right thing, swallow their pride, and bring back the option to have vacuum's original range.

[Xzorn]

If they want us to pay attention to the scenery. They should have nerfed Animal Instinct, not Vacuum.

I play via the Mini-Map these days.

 

If they want us to have options they should have fixed the scaling and damage systems 3 YEARS AGO  to allow some of these options to be viable within higher level ranges. Fact is they're not. Carrier is still the most useful companion because it survives the best and supplies the most utility as a result of being alive.

You cannot change that by nerfing Vacuum. You cannot change that by showing half meaningful statistics. You can only change it by fixing your game to allow these other options to become viable.

They nerfed Shade's invis, They nerfed Helios, They nerfed Dirga. They caused this salutation through poor balancing and neglect.

[nickl3188]

I see the reasoning behind a flat 10-12 meters, I'd love that, I'd prefer it, because I know all my sentinels have every slot filled, but we also used to have to upgrade vacuum mod to get more range, so I could see it as a fair alternative to the possibility of a 100% denial of just straight up increasing the range

Edited October 6, 2016 by nickl3188

[Culaio]

There is one more problem people dont realize, I will quote myself from another tread:

"After testing vacuum today I realized that its even worse then I thought, dunno if its because host or because of internet connection but during my tests I saw that true range of vacuum(at least for me, dunno about others) is 4 meters not 6"

When that happen I was on the ground, I am not guessing that distance, I got that info when I was talking(not sprinting) toward life suppprt,, it didnt get pulled toward me when I was 6 meters away, and didnt get pulled in when I was 5 meters away, I got when I was exactly 4 meters away.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

15 hours ago, SquireAngel said:

Playing literally any other, I repeat, ANY OTHER, FPS or TPS will show that vacuum is an accessory that isn't necessary, and DE even including this across more than 1 sentinel is a cop out to satisfy the laziest of players. If the playerbase can't be grateful for the fact that Vacuum even exists, I honestly don't think DE should even have to listen to their childish mewling. 

Show me any other FPS where you can move as fast as you can in Warframe. The only one I can think of that even comes close is Doom 2016, and there it's all about the single player so you never have to rush to extraction because the rest of your team is waiting on you.

I think you need to talk to your knight, o squire, because it's very clear that at some point your education has gone awry.

[notlamprey]

I was already looking around and having fun.

Then, DE took the fun away.

If people aren't playing the game at all, they're "looking at DE's work" even less than if they're playing and rushing.

[Lanadra]

13 minutes ago, R34LM said:

I don't know why people even would consider nerfing Vacuum a balance change. How exactly did it make any of us overpowered? Besides, 6m isn't even a sizable nerf; it's purely an annoyance. What is even more annoying is that DE constantly dodges the question of why they did it in the first place.

Too long of a range? They left it that way since Carrier's inception years ago. I'm not even going to go with "it's DE logic of let it sit for a while and pull out the rug when there is now furniture on it".

You could grab stuff behind walls? Maybe they could invest time in a fix to make sure things didn't bug out behind walls. Besides, how bad  was it? Ah! Two crates behind the wall oooooooo that is so going to boost my gameplay since I have Carrier to suck it up. No benefit.

All the sentinels have it now, so nerf it because of the wider usage amongst all players? You mean to tell me that the 80% of the player population that use sentinels use Carrier wasn't a wide use of it already? If you left it at 12m you wouldn't hear anyone complaining.

I might even believe it's because Nekros farms were getting out of hand, but that's even pulling at straws.

 

DE has not given us a concrete reason as to why they don't want a 12m universal, to all companions, Vacuum. They have always dodged the question. So, they either don't have a reason, or they have a very pitiful one that wouldn't hold up in a logical argument. Add to the fact that they release a weapon and skin that work with Djinn to distract players and skew the results of their sentinel use survey and you can see that they are hoping for us to forget about it. Hell, giving Djinn so much attention has highlighted that every other sentinel besides Carrier is s***. Why? It isn't because of Vacuum. It's because every other sentinel besides Carrier has the strength of a glass jar; hell, Carrier can rarely go to high level missions of 80+ unless you have healing abilities, and even then you'd want Naramon because bombard rockets are a thing.

This whole update is a distraction, nothing more. It is a distraction from the unnecessary Vacuum nerf; it is a distraction from the fact that TWW is delayed again until next month; it is a distraction from the fact that players, including content creators, are losing interest in the game because of lack of sizable content; it is a distraction from the fact that "longevity" in Warframe will never be a thing despite the many attempts to try to make it last after the plug is finally pulled on it.

You want the know the funny thing, though? It is a abysmally poor distraction.

This, a thousand times, right now all the dodging the question and being vague with answers like ''just give it a try'' ''just get used to it'', is very much giving the impression of this nerf just being a case of ''lelnerf because F*** you it's our game we can do what we want''.

[RikerWatts]

8 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

You didn't understand did you..... You've basically already done the levelling, building etc of enough items to get you to MR 20.  Thats A LOT of resources used already and I bet that during that time a lot of it was done with carrier.  Now imaging if you had to do all that again without the farming location that you went and exploited to get there and instead you now have to go around the normal levels with their low drop rates to collect ALL of those resources.  Think about it as a player that hasn't already exploited draco to get to higher levels where they don't need as much. 

I stated laziness finds a way, yet you don't seem to read right here-
Akkad on Eris
Heiracon on Pluto
both are good for experience, not hard at all to get to. By the time you reach them, congratulations you've played the game how DE has been INTENDING you to. I got them early as hell (within my first four days) because my friends pulled me through it so I could play with them, I didn't understand, I didn't know anything.

You still seem to mistake me for hating vacuum, I loved it and still do, it's a great update to have on every sentinel. My carrier I have put platinum into for it's aesthetic so I won't change it off, along with ammo mutation being an amazing precept for how I play. Collecting the resources without the vacuum would mean nobody would have had it in the first place, and the placement of one would have been a blessing, so to say: if I was put in that position then, my disposition would not have been bad as I would have been used to that.
"Exploiting" a farming location is sketchy to say, as DE knows this game requires farming to get more things, they encourage it with Excavation, defense, survival missions all in tandem for- you guessed it- getting materials. So that's already null and void.


@Metalarcher

Now while I can see where you're coming from, resource gathering (somehow) became important as a gameplay aspect. visually seeing you gathering this resource started to bring upon immersion and satisfaction.
"Yeah I killed an enemy and it dropped TWO argon crystals, nice." kind of thing is what they're going for. My freind Nethian has said that about an enemy in the void, marked the argon and moved on. It's a very minor joy experience and frankly if we had auto-resource collection on a map-wide scale, I feel as if it'd be kind of less fun overall. Minecraft is about building but for the most part you're gathering, a lot of other games follow that kind of aspect too and it is a form of enjoyment to some degree.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

If they want us to pay attention to the scenery. They should have nerfed Animal Instinct, not Vacuum.

I play via the Mini-Map these days.

 

If they want us to have options they should have fixed the scaling and damage systems 3 YEARS AGO  to allow some of these options to be viable within higher level ranges. Fact is they're not. Carrier is still the most useful companion because it survives the best and supplies the most utility as a result of being alive.

You cannot change that by nerfing Vacuum. You cannot change that by showing half meaningful statistics. You can only change it by fixing your game to allow these other options to become viable.

They nerfed Shade's invis, They nerfed Helios, They nerfed Dirga. They caused this salutation through poor balancing and neglect.

Not enough opinions and feedback was given about the sentinels listed along with those not listed because the main focus was on Carrier anyhow. Now they can be altered to help fit a better playstyle in this game, which is great since vacuum being integrated in all of them is perfect to get people to stop using it solely for that purpose.

[notlamprey]

13 minutes ago, EchoesOfRain said:

It's honestly a bit sickening to see people reacting like this, really shows how spoiled the community is. I haven't used the carrier in several months, using my Kavat and now a Diriga, so I've gotten quite used to running around and picking up stuff (it's really NOT that big of a pain to do, people...). I welcome the sudden 6m BUFF to my pickup range with my Diriga attached, I only hope now for Vacuum to be built into frames instead. If you can't handle a 6m (almost) universal range, then you guys deserve the 3-split vacuum precepts.

You're playing a worse game. That's the problem.

Having to devote energy to carefully picking up all our loot makes Warframe an objectively worse game, because all the time spent fussing over loot is time spent not engaging with the combat system or the parkour system.

Warframe is a lesser game when players don't have the option to set down the stress of picking up all that loot one piece at a time.

Edited October 6, 2016 by notlamprey
spells is hard.

[Madway7]

46 minutes ago, Ahcruna said:

Please no more slot hogging mods on the Warframes, I definitely don't want it removed from Carrier just to hog something else
Please just make it an Aura in a new aura slot for sentinels/pets only
making it an aura would also benefit the players who do not want to have Vacuum.



___________________________________________________
There was a hole here, now it's gone. I guess...  (╯°Д°）╯︵ ┻━┻

But then they would probably add new auras to add "variety" later on then get mad at us for not using them.

But it would be great if it gave more capacity.

[CandyDragon]

8 minutes ago, Culaio said:

There is one more problem people dont realize, I will quote myself from another tread:

"After testing vacuum today I realized that its even worse then I thought, dunno if its because host or because of internet connection but during my tests I saw that true range of vacuum(at least for me, dunno about others) is 4 meters not 6"

When that happen I was on the ground, I am not guessing that distance, I got that info when I was talking(not sprinting) toward life suppprt,, it didnt get pulled toward me when I was 6 meters away, and didnt get pulled in when I was 5 meters away, I got when I was exactly 4 meters away.

Vacuum is based on the sentinels position not yours, the reduction in its radius has reduced its effect so much that it is actually a huge nerf in its range. Halving the radius of a sphere or circle reduces its area and volume by much more.  85% more or less. 

Edited October 6, 2016 by Nariala

[(XBOX)ashes of suvius]

1 hour ago, RikerWatts said:

You pick on him when he joined about a year ago, he too probably knows about the issues carrier had on the sentinel environment. Yet, just like all the people who have stayed through updates that have removed something: He understands.
It would seem you are the one crying about something, as I am rank 20 in 89 days, newer than you, was here long enough to hit 12 with draco, yet I can comprehend everything that is going on and their reasoning because it is all because DE doesn't like the way the game was being played. It was incorrect, unhealthy. The game is grindy, but they hate for it to BE grindy, and if you look, they are working toward fixing that one step at a time.

I'm sorry I was following your logic and trying to be open minded to your viewpoint on this whole vacuum thing, but moving towards being LESS grindy? Are you kidding me? This whole relic system was more grind, they just called it less, nekros desecrate just got nerfed in efficiency, kela de thaym takes judgment points. Now vacuum got nerfed? What step was towards less grind?

[Birdframe_Prime]

I just want to add in my round of applause for a well paced, thought out and very well executed thread starter, well done that player, and thank you.

This is exactly my view on the vast majority of these updates, where we, as players, have to grind through a game that's beautiful and has generous procedurally generated levels full of loot and enemies for the taking.

I've been spending the wait for TWW by finding all the Cephalon Fragments and completing the few nodes I never bothered with, and I noticed that I have a remarkably low level of scans on anything.

I gleefully equipped my scan-hammer and my Helios for these hunting runs and had a great deal of fun rediscovering quite how much extra space is actually loaded into basic low-level maps for us to explore. I can spend fifteen minutes just trying to find the full extent of a grineer gallion map...

In other words, without Carrier I've explored far more of the tiles than I had before, and discovered quite a few little hidden bits that I didn't know existed thanks to Animal Instinct and Thief's Wit combined.

By the by, I've now been in game for about two years, nearly 900 hours or so to this one account, and I think I'm one of the minority who (thought their usage of Carrier vastly outweighs the usage of the others) hasn't used Carrier for more than a few hours in the last half year or more. Why? Because of animal companions and the basic need to not share Affinity with the little bastards when I'm levelling my gear. I like runs that will level me fast, but not full speed, because I can see the differences between the unranked abilities and the fully ranked, and get a real feel for any new frame or weapon. To make this stick, I run without companions in order to maximise the Affinity that's earned by the frame itself.

So... I guess what I'm saying is I'm remarkably Zen about this whole affair, since it means whenever I choose to run with a sentinel, they'll all have the same base bonus.

Don't mind me, just passing through, thanks again @RikerWatts

[(PSN)Mofojokers]

Well at least they didn't do this lol

 

[NinjaKitsune56]

Honestly, I prefer my Kubrows and Kavat over my Sentinels, unless I'm short on DNA Stabilizers. Then I bring out Carrier to pull in the credits and mods... the range loss is nothing to me, seeing as, given the choice, I'd happily trawl every map for as long as possible to make sure I got everything anyways.

[SmallRuth]

I love the fact that Vacuum was made to go on multiple Sentinels. However, without the 12m radius, walking around and picking up loot feels like a sloggy chore to me. I prefer to do cool parkour stuff and shoot mans John Woo style than sloooooooowly walk over colored blocks, but that's me, and you might feel differently. 

To me, it makes the game feel slower and more tedious.

[SoulEaterReaper]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Mofojokers said:

Well at least they didn't do this lol

 

whoever edited that did a goob job.

[Judgebanks]

10 hours ago, Beggining said:

We are getting so many threads about a simple function (Vacuum) that would either have never existed at all in this game or would be in every frame if not for the Carrier's creation XD

In early 2014 we as players were not killing thousands upon thousands of enemies per mission, oddly enough it was more challenging then than it is now due to the way that enemies never missed, while we didn't have aoe weapons, but I digress.

After the summer of 2014 Nekros rolls around along with his buddy "Carrier", initially I didn't think I'd need it. I was most definitely wrong, Sweeper turned out to be one of the best shotguns, and sweeper prime at 80% status chance with blast/corrosive, well that's just icing on the cake. Turns out Nekros' little buddy was a bad-&#! and the most useful companion in the game to date.

Back then we were lucky to see a morphics or a gallium. Now we farm up 200 morphics/gallium a mission.

 

Spending a majority of your time like a brain addled child chasing candy in a parking-lot is not the tenno-way.

Why does health and energy plop out of enemies like shoes off a person hit by a 60mph car? Why do credits fly out of their wallets and onto the floor? Right now DE is in a conflict of balancing realism and gameplay. My guess is that their may be a future boss where they want ammo to be an issue. However that one single instance aside, how do you combine scavenging like rats for loot that we have already earned through blood, with the likeness of being a Tenno?

 

My proposal along with many others sharing the very same sentiment is that you simply make "Vacuum" available to all companions at a range of 10m or greater.

 

Some might say that is "Overpowered" or "Too much", and to that I ask "Is it overpowered?"

Will not having to worry about picking up your loot make the average player have something close to the average human reaction speed when it comes to getting knocked down by Elite units, powerfists, and shields? Will not having to worry about loot allow players to be able to melee down a nullifier bubble without getting hit by the bubble? Will not having to worry about loot teach your average ash player NOT to bladestorm an Ancient Disruptor? Will not having to worry about picking up loot make players smart enough to not bring an all syndicate load-out to a high level spy mission?

Probably not, but maybe just maybe allowing them to focus on actually playing the game instead of staring at their map over-lay will.

The current loot system is 100% detrimental to the main focus of the game, ayatans/syndicate medals, kurio, and rare containers already encourage exploration. I don't need to go exploring for an argon drop that got flung into the anus of the void by various clientside physics interactions.

 

Ten meters, all companions, no exceptions.

[notlamprey]

18 minutes ago, Prepotenza said:

It is not that bad, I used Carrier for 87% of my games (according to my profile info) but after the release of Kavats I switched to them.
I thought I wouldn't be able to play without Vacuum but I got used to it and unless I am specifically running a mission for resources I use Kavats.
Anyway you might try Mag's Greedy Pull augment, that lets you pull resources.

My problem is that we can no longer have "convenient loot and."

We have to choose "convenient loot or." Before, I could use carrier with any frame and build, resting happily in the convenience of vacuum. Now, I would have to run Mag with Greedy Pull if I wanted anything like the convenience we had before.

Less player choice, less player power, less player fun.

Warframe loses all of its strengths when players have to contend with deliberately picking up every piece of loot. You may not find it objectionable, but I do because the game is objectively worse.

Edited October 6, 2016 by notlamprey
i can't spell today

[Sirfol]

i'm agaist that because it can potentially hinder me in a mission or even in certain circumstances for example in a survival if u have 100% LF going on, u don't want to pick up another life support drop but with a "obligatory Vacuum" i will pick that up and waste it, another example? u have 299/300 energy, u want to waste a energy ball for that 1? no u don't want it but with a passive built in the warfame u will again be obligated to pick that up. And for those who are thinking "then u can stay away from the resorce u need until u need it" again you are forgetting that not all the places are open maps, if i'm running in a hallway with a 12m pickup range i'm obligated to only 2 choices: (1) run trough it and pick up everything wasting it if i don't need it,(2) stop and cast some skill,wait for life support to decrease and so on, remaining idle because I Can't Go Near A Pickup Without Picking It. Sorry but it will only encourage newbie errors (they will think picking up LF support drop even at 99% for granted, and in many instance we saw how important is to ration ur life support drops).

Edited October 6, 2016 by Sirfol

[Cpl_Facehugger]

1 hour ago, DeFragMe said:

well the reason msotly would be.... it would make all ressource collecting even more trivial as it is already.

 

I don't really see why that's a bad thing. In a game about fast paced acrobatic combat, resource collecting should be tremendously trivial.

[DeFragMe]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Mofojokers said:

Well at least they didn't do this lol

 

dont judge the day before judgment day.... it can still come...

[Xzorn]

5 minutes ago, RikerWatts said:

Not enough opinions and feedback was given about the sentinels listed along with those not listed because the main focus was on Carrier anyhow. Now they can be altered to help fit a better playstyle in this game, which is great since vacuum being integrated in all of them is perfect to get people to stop using it solely for that purpose.

 

And what about Endurance runners?

Not only have we been shafted with the Void but Carrier is STILL the only option.

It's nothing but a nerf for us.  Carrier is still the best high level companion.

They obviously ignore most of their feedback and listen to statistics alone.

You seem for some reason content with an unnecessary compromise.

 

[ZectorV1]

This is one of the only games I play that DOESN'T have some sort of passive pickup at a considerable range, and it's also one of the fastest paced games I play. Those two things aren't very well mixed, DE. The new carrier is honestly fine how it is, just increase the range back to how it was at least and slap vaccum on all warframes

Edited October 6, 2016 by Zectorcop

[Gritzan]

Of course it's easy. DE wouldn't spend more than a few hours adding innate 12m vacuum to warframes, with an options toggle and all.

 

The thing is, they don't want to. That's the issue, and that's the absolute mystery.