The Vacuum Within: Universal Vacuum Feedback

[Kurokoz]

A lot of these posts, not just in this discussion, are acting like picking up loot is a major inconvenience. Some even say you have to stare at the ground..what? Does it take extra time to register a drop is on the ground? Just run over it while you go. 3 years of this game and I have never had issues with picking up resources. I get enough without trying.  Especially with the new resource caches, I've been getting more of what I need than before. This is only plastids, polymer and cryotic though.. and cryotic remains unaffected which sucks for the elyton part that needs several thousand. A lot of people do rush mastery though. I played in closed beta and I'm only mastery rank 16. So maybe it is worse for those who do nothing but farm mastery, but I have a great time just enjoying the game for being the game. Such nice graphics, lots of fun weapons (mostly melee, vaykor hek is the first primary I have taken seriously in these years) and a challenge once in awhile..

[rngd444]

11 minutes ago, Sirfol said:

the fact u can do it means that we have more Choices,This, For me it's a pro, and with a range of 12m i would have trouble with a sentinel in a survival with a map with hallways because i will be Obligated to pick up LF drops even with a 99%/100%, i will have trouble if i had 299/300 energy and obligated to pick up a energy orb because vacuum is too big. but this is only my opinion right?

There was nothing to be found of said opinion in your initial post. The Life Support one isn't a real problem since it wouldn't matter anyway in a situation where you can easily reach 100%. As for energy, while I'd like a better management in that regard (e.g. either leave the rest on the ground or give us temporary energy limited to one orb at a time), I don't think it's that big of a deal. You can't solely rely on energy orbs for reliable supply anyway since they're too RNG-heavy.

 

16 minutes ago, Babellon said:

6m range is half the range of the original vacuum yes. How ever it's effect on legitimate game play is negligible. You have to move a step closer on your screen, a fact which coincidently does not require any actual physical effort. In reality, we the players are moving our hands on a keyboard and mouse/controller exerting little to know physical movement at all.

'Ok.' By your logic (or lack thereof), they should remove Vacuum entirely since, you know, you can simply make another millisecond input. /s

[Troll_Logic]

21 hours ago, ----Fenrir---- said:

Food for thought. The basic loot pick up range of warframes is 3m.

It's 1m and that 1m is from the center of the warframe so it is just about the warframe itself.  5m is very noticeable, but a little larger would be nice.

[TaylorsContraction]

Since everyone is just starting a new thread I'll go ahead and follow suit.

I'm finally free of carrier. Thank you so much DE. It's been years that I've been enslaved to the quality of life feature that was carrier. Despite having numerous forma on other sentinels I almost never used them. I thought a sniping sentinel was really cool but never bothered with it because carrier made my life easier.

That all ended with the vacuum within. Yeah it's a nerf to carrier's looting ability, but it's also a huge buff to every other sentinel. It also gives carrier a new purpose and offers us more choices in the process. Carrier can replaced an ammo mutation mod on your weapon freeing up a slot for damage or other utility for those hoses.

Finally I can use helios and prisma shade in every mission.

It feels really good to be free of carrier, in that I'm now enslaved to sentinels rather than "a" sentinel.

Now I realize you kept vacuum on sentinels because you wanted that meaningful choices to be made between kavats and sentinels. Kubrows are left on the sidelines. My advice is make unique passives for each sentinel to make them attractive so that vacuum can be placed on warframes and thus we'll all be freed completely.

 

Suggestions:

Djin is a tank, add percent or flat armor bonus when using djin, or both.

Carrier increases loot range by 4 meters. Coupled with warframe passive of 6, appease all the salt

Shade, offers stealth, give it bonus stealth range like rakta dagger, allow them to stack

Wurm offers some cc, make it also offer chance to resist status (without block stun) effect  and like 10% to resist knock down

Dirga is a sniper class. Let it give bonus headshot and crit multiplier when hitting a target from far away. Sniper's dream.

Helios is a scanner, let it have default loot radar of 10/15 meters, help us find things. Also make it highlight plants and statues with its energy color if he sees them.

Possibilities are endless here.

Edited October 6, 2016 by TaylorsContraction
Forgot helios

[notlamprey]

And I'm free of having fun!

Let's be free together, friend.

_sorry.

I get what you're saying, but large parts of my Warframe experience have been gutted. A lot of folks feel the same way. Hopefully we end up at a solution that preserves your newfound fun and returns some of what was lost to the rest of us.

[Troll_Logic]

10 hours ago, Aerensiniac said:

I think i died a bit on the inside....

Cause you know... reducing range is not a nerf.... i guess in your world thats a buff. How about buffing your account with a deletion?

Good.  Keep dying on the inside.

Vacuum's range was reduced.  But it's usefulness was increased greatly.  So vacuum wasn't nerfed because it is more useful now.

So keep dying on the inside baby.  Keep dying.

[----Fenrir----]

21 hours ago, Daggerpaw1 said:

Why was a nerf to vacuum even suggested at the dev table? The players have made it very clear that at the least, we wanted vacuum to be a universal preset that could be applied to all sentinels. So, I have to ask:

Why was the decision made to go one step below the lowest bar of the community's expectations and nerf vacuum's range to half of it's current range?

Two steps below the lowest bar of the community's expectations you mean? Because I sure as hell remember the majority actually asking for vacuum being truly universal, not just sentinel-only, and to work with ALL companions. Either by making it a companion mod like Animal Instinct, or by increasing the default pick up range of all warframes to vacuum level.

[Judgebanks]

7 hours ago, D20 said:

Hey there, very small feedback.

So I just tried the new Vaccum Update. It's definitely nice to see that Carrier is not the only sentinel supporting thta vaccum ability. However I feel like it's a little bit too small. Current range is 6 meters right ? How about making it 8 meters ? It just feels a bit better to me.

Another suggestion : How about adding a mod that boosts the vaccum effect for sentinels ? Maybe up to +100%~+125% or something. This could be a good tradeoff to those who miss Carrier's original big vaccum range.

I look forward to see the universal vaccum changes applied to Kubrows and Kavast as well. :)

This actually might be worse than Sheldon vs THE BUS from when forma was added. However this time I actually find myself agreeing with you.

 

Has DE made a statement as to WHY they nerfed the vacuum range?

[IFHQ]

Listen, I get that your trying DE, I really do, but your doing this all wrong, giving vacuum to all sentinals was what we wanted yes.  But we DIDN'T want its range to be sliced in half (approximately.) and Carrier is still the only viable choice for my companion, because all other sentinels die in like.... 2 hits, carrier is the only one that can take a punch, so yes, you STARTED to do the right thing, but then you somehow veered in a completely different direction to what was needed, sentinels need to be tougher and the range needs to be longer, if you capped the Universal Vacuum at 8 meters, that'd be @(*()$ fantastic I wouldn't raise a single complaint.  as it stands I can't see people switching to other sentinels because they just can't take a hit like carrier prime can

 

 

 

TL;DR VERSION: other sentinels suck too much to be able to be used, we need BETTER changes 

[TaylorsContraction]

1 minute ago, notlamprey said:

And I'm free of having fun!

Let's be free together, friend.

_sorry.

I get what you're saying, but large parts of my Warframe experience have been gutted. A lot of folks feel the same way. Hopefully we end up at a solution that preserves your newfound fun and returns some of what was lost to the rest of us.

You should read the whole thread

[Sirfol]

5 minutes ago, TaylorsContraction said:

Since everyone is just starting a new thread I'll go ahead and follow suit.

I'm finally free of carrier. Thank you so much DE. It's been years that I've been enslaved to the quality of life feature that was carrier. Despite having numerous forma on other sentinels I almost never used them. I thought a sniping sentinel was really cool but never bothered with it because carrier made my life easier.

That all ended with the vacuum within. Yeah it's a nerf to carrier's looting ability, but it's also a huge buff to every other sentinel. It also gives carrier a new purpose and offers us more choices in the process. Carrier can replaced an ammo mutation mod on your weapon freeing up a slot for damage or other utility for those hoses.

Finally I can use helios and prisma shade in every mission.

It feels really good to be free of carrier, in that I'm now enslaved to sentinels rather than "a" sentinel.

Now I realize you kept vacuum on sentinels because you wanted that meaningful choices to be made between kavats and sentinels. Kubrows are left on the sidelines. My advice is make unique passives for each sentinel to make them attractive so that vacuum can be placed on warframes and thus we'll all be freed completely.

 

Suggestions:

Djin is a tank, add percent or flat armor bonus when using djin, or both.

Carrier increases loot range by 4 meters. Coupled with warframe passive of 6, appease all the salt

Shade, offers stealth, give it bonus stealth range like rakta dagger, allow them to stack

Wurm offers some cc, make it also offer chance to resist status (without block stun) effect  and like 10% to resist knock down

Dirga is a sniper class. Let it give bonus headshot and crit multiplier when hitting a target from far away. Sniper's dream.

 

Possibilities are endless here.

Thank you for your existence.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Sirfol

[Skaleek]

I'm not. I actually love his new ammo case mod more than his vacuum... I like your passives idea. I think they need to fix up how ghost works too. Also Djinn needs to be way tankier if he's gonna tank enemy fire.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Skaleek

[Aerensiniac]

1 minute ago, Troll_Logic said:

Good.  Keep dying on the inside.

Vacuum's range was reduced.  But it's usefulness was increased greatly.  So vacuum wasn't nerfed because it is more useful now.

So keep dying on the inside baby.  Keep dying.

Except you know... it was nerfed, its not more useful, conclusively you are wrong... But if we take away these small details... i guess you are completely right, so yeah. Point for you.

[notlamprey]

Just now, TaylorsContraction said:

You should read the whole thread

I must have missed something, or worded my post in a way that communicates the thought poorly.

I did read the whole post I promise. _{I tried :(}

[KeiYinXI]

I don't know, Kavats re-placed Sentinels for me completely.

[Brynslustafir]

People have been asking for more durable sentinels for longer than a universal vacuum, just not as loudly. I thought for sure that by now they would have given sentinels the same link mods as pets. 

[Metalarcher]

@Kurokoz

I think when people say "stare at the ground" they mean "you generally have to see the thing you want to go pick up." And however little time it might be, yes, it does take time to register that there is indeed a thing there and you need to position your character correctly so as to pick up said thing. Isolated, no, it isn't a major inconvenience to pick something up. But having to do it 100, 200 times a mission? A little in abundance is a lot, and having to repeat this process, which is neither engaging nor fun, thousands of times over the course of playing this game can wear on a player a bit, especially when the player would much rather be focusing on the aspects of the game they enjoy.

And while I understand what you mean about not worrying so much about resources, plenty of people do it out of habit. Not necessarily because they need a thing, but because it's easier to just run over and pick the thing up than to take the time determining if it's something you need or not. Plus, if a player completely foregoes the collection resources because it isn't fun for them, they will receive fewer rewards than their teammates who bit the bullet and collected all the resources, but generally had a worse time having to do it. It's a case of fun versus reward, which a player never wants to choose between. Ideally, the fun and the reward should come in tandem. That's what we want to see Warframe designed for.

I agree with you that the game is still, ultimately, fun. I wouldn't be here if I didn't think so. But good is good and better is better, and I think a little goes a long way in this case, so it's worth discussing whether the "long way" we're going is in the right direction.

[Troll_Logic]

12 hours ago, (XB1)ashes of suvius said:

the conversation about serration isn't talking about cutting it by effectively 83% universally 

It wasn't cut by 83%.  Not even close.

[chofranc]

1 hour ago, DrPinkieDIe said:

Listen, I get that your trying DE, I really do, but your doing this all wrong, giving vacuum to all sentinals was what we wanted yes.  But we DIDN'T want its range to be sliced in half (approximately.) and Carrier is still the only viable choice for my companion, because all other sentinels die in like.... 2 hits, carrier is the only one that can take a punch, so yes, you STARTED to do the right thing, but then you somehow veered in a completely different direction to what was needed, sentinels need to be tougher and the range needs to be longer, if you capped the Universal Vacuum at 8 meters, that'd be @(*()$ fantastic I wouldn't raise a single complaint.  as it stands I can't see people switching to other sentinels because they just can't take a hit like carrier prime can

Lol, every sentinel is squishy, did you tried djiin, diriga or wyrm? They have more chances to survive than carrier since they have CC abilities. Now that all the sentinels are almost in the same line, is a good opportunity to the players to try out other sentinels, djiin is one of the most op right now it does the same as the lantern ability of titania.

[CrispyCIean]

Yea. Extra ammo and a 


UNIVERSAL AMMO MUTATION 

is pretty freaking good when you compare that other sentinels aren't as tanky, or their skills aren't as useful like at all.

[jinxeverything]

I have been free from Carrier (and other flying potatos expect for Drigia) since the day I met my Huras Kubrow (<3 Prin) 

[Nep_Blanc]

19 minutes ago, Shockwave- said:

Total area was reduced by 89% in volume since it was a sphere. its a 75% reduction in the disc area of a flat ciricle but if you ever jump AT ALL the 3rd dimension is important. Since carrier sits above and slightly behind you and is the center of the sphere, something on the floor 6m in front of your feet is NOT in range because of that 3rd dimension.

have you seen how I got my calculations further up in the thread? its alone about surface area if you are walking normally on ground not taking the full 3D aspect in mind. if you take full volume aspect in mind it even gets worse then 89% have not calculated but it gets an order of magnitude by 3 less.

 

Chao, The Roaring Lion

 

[renleech]

have you tried Shade recently? Still damn good and not as squishy as you think.

Now that vacuum is universal, i'm still adapting to it. I still run after drops even with vacuum. Old habits die hard.

Edited October 6, 2016 by renleech

[Skaleek]

You guys are gonna get ammo case nerfed for nothing.

[StinkyPygmy]

"Carrier is still the only viable companion"  *snickers*

Jokes aside, the implication that carrier was always the only viable companion is really hindering my ability to take this all on board. Honestly I've never really noticed carrier prime being significantly more durable. My sentinels sure as hell typically don't die often because me r my team mates are being targeted. Occasionally one will die in an eximis fire burst but thats about it.

From my perspective at least, I've always done just fine without carrier and I will continue to do so. I use it occaisonally, but I prefer Shade, Driga or wyrm prime over carrier. Sucking up drops isn't really important to me, but boy is occasional radial knockdown or invis when reviving neato. That being said, I normally use kubrows over sentinels these days.