The Vacuum Within: Universal Vacuum Feedback

[Chipputer]

19 minutes ago, Otakuwolf said:

DE should hire Quiette-Shy

No. No they shouldn't hire Quiette Shy. Nothing she says is her own ideas. They're always ideas posted on the forums and reddit ages before she makes her videos. She just has a much easier to digest format.

[alltaken]

The 6m range doesn't sound like a huge nerf, but during game play it is. I almost have to walk over the pickups for vacuum sucking them in. That being said: "Manually" collecting loot from the groud is a tedious chore in a game where I can finish a mission without touhing the ground. This bothers me more than the added grind for relics & traces...

[Caramello]

10 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

I'm well aware. Stop using volume to obfuscate how much the range has changed. You're not mesmerizing me by saying that it's technically some high percentage decrease in volume. Vacuum doesn't work via volume.

Lol ofcourse it does, this is a multidimensional game, the vacuum work on a orb and not in straight lines lol

[Troll_Logic]

12 minutes ago, ZeroSample said:

Also, you don't seem to realize how big of a difference 6m compared to 12m actually is.

to quote Aurea_Hiigara's post in another thread:

"1.33 x 3.1415 (pi) x 12 x 12 x 12 = 7219,92096 cubic meters on Carrier before the change to Vacuum.

1.33 x 3.1415 (pi) x 6 x 6 x 6 = 902,49012 cubic meters on all sentinels after the change to Vacuum.

I'm gonna round them off for this next part.

The new area of effect is 12% of what we used to have. It hasn't been cut in half. It hasn't been cut in quarters. It has been reduced HALF OF HALF OF HALF. One eighth of what it used to be."

No it hasn't.  Not even close to 12%.  I go over it here.

 

[-JT-_-R3W1ND]

3 minutes ago, Brian_Paone said:

This is another reason why I believe DE should come on down and talk to us about it. We don't even know if that would work, or how well.

 

I mean, sure, from the ol' computer chair, it SEEMS like it might work, but we're talking about giving abilities to objects that didn't have those abilities before. I'm almost positive warframes and sentinels have quite different code. How would a passive vacuum for warframes affect things? Has it been tested? If so, what were the results? If not, why?

 

These are questions we can't answer as players, no matter how large the thread or how wild the speculation. But the answers would almost certainly help us understand this.

DE have some mystirios way to do things. Sometimes comunity just don't like nerfs, or changes, but anyway they never try to do  a discusion BEFORE.

And even if somebody do, some people always come and say "lets wait a patch and then talk". I have no idea why we always have this ***t.

What about coding, we have Mag. He have vacuum already, but after bulletjump. So this is not a real problem.

[Aerensiniac]

1 hour ago, Troll_Logic said:

I'm enjoying it better than having to actually walk over the item with the Helios like last week.

Because logic.

And the Helios is still chuckling at you.  Like two twenty year old girls after a fifty year old fat guy tried to hit on them and then walked away.

 

And enjoying it more than having a 12 meter vacuum. Because logic.

Vaccum has had its ranged reduced by 50% and instead of making it universal its now sentinel only. Sorry. We asked for balancing, the removal of an item which was so mandatory 90% of the player base used it. Instead we got this, and people like you. And then everyone wonders why warframe forums is cancer.

[Shockwave-]

2 hours ago, (PS4)joshw1400 said:

Prisma Shade can save your life in LOR

yeah but it usually dies,. and since rare crates spawn in the walls in stage one in several players carrier gets those, while shade doesn't.

OF course now none of them will.

[DrBorris]

Response to all of those crazy people that think that volume determines the effictiveness of Vacuum...

33 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

Just because you use math does not mean you are right, stop mathing for a second and let's logic.

 

You are standing in the middle of a large circular fence (don't ask why, just go with it). A large horde of man eating sheep are coming towards you and all you have to defend yourself is this fence. Each sheep is a meter wide so only a certain number of sheep can attack your fence at a time. How would you, in the case, determine how many sheep can attack you at once? Simple, you would use circumference. You don't need to know how many sheep can fit inside your fence because they are all being stopped at the fence wall.

 

Vacuum is the exact same way. It does not matter how much area it covers, but how large the radius/circumference is. This is because the only time Vacuum has a practical effect is when a pickup touches the wall, the area within the range is pointless because everything was picked up as soon as it touched the circumference.

 

And before you say "BUT MATH!"

11 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

But let's keep going with this, math is always the solution to everything, right?

In order to walk over to the fridge to grab a soda I probably shouldn't drink, I will have to move a linear distance of 8 meters. However, I do not live in a linear world, I live in a 3D world. Thus I must do some math.

 

The total volume of my body is total volume is 66.4 liters, in order to move towards the fridge I will have to displace that entire volume so If I was trying to best represent how far I was going, I should calculate that, right? The total volume that must be displaced is (8)^3*66.4. Thus in order to move my body to the fridge I must move 33996.8 liters.

That... is stupid, using volume to measure how far I moved is completely impractical, while still being mathematically correct.

 

You have to use logic to know what math to use when, you can't just spew equations and say they apply.

 

[Troll_Logic]

1 minute ago, Aerensiniac said:

And enjoying it more than having a 12 meter vacuum. Because logic.

Vaccum has had its ranged reduced by 50% and instead of making it universal its now sentinel only. Sorry. We asked for balancing, the removal of an item which was so mandatory 90% of the player base used it. Instead we got this, and people like you. And then everyone wonders why warframe forums is cancer.

Once again, you miss the point.  The vacuum on my helios has now increased from 0 to 6m.

Coincidentally, The vacuum on my dethcube has also increased from 0 to 6m.

You know what else?  Just by happenstance, the vacuum on my diriga has increased from 0 to 6m.

Randomly, the vacuum on my shade has also increased from 0 to 6m.

I could keep going on about how vacuum has increased on all my other sentinels except carrier.  Vacuum did drop a bit on carrier.  But overall, vacuum is better.

Oh, and you know what else?  I didn't lose a single mod slot on ANY SENTINEL for vacuum and I actually gained one on carrier.

Because logic.

[ZectorV1]

I mean maybe this is just me but it feels like vacuum should be just as much as a given as press space to jump and Wasd to move. All this moving it around and using it as a balance tool to get people to use certain stuff is dumb.

[Troll_Logic]

9 minutes ago, CarameIIo said:

Lol ofcourse it does, this is a multidimensional game, the vacuum work on a orb and not in straight lines lol

It does, but the tenno move.  So vacuum isn't a sphere, it's a cylinder.

[Xzorn]

12 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

Yeah but a content update thats been teased and delayed like Mr burns dangling a dollar bill attached to a fish line from his car. Anyways, i dont disagree with you, I'd love to see them come back and work on core mechanics. Focus is barely a system and still has a little heart on the icon as if begging us to be merciful as to how incomplete and garbage it is. All these things you're saying right now have been repeated ad nauseum by vets on the forums. Eventually things will change or game will die, just enjoy while you can, unfortunately theres not much else to be done besides the true endgame, foruming.

DE's response: more fashionfraaaaaaaaaaaaame

 

I think Solar Rails / Dark Sectors was teased and talked about for almost a year before it came out and it was nothing more than a tile set with NO PvP, unlike advertised.

I heard later then finally added PvP but by then I was gone in disgust.  I also read it was still pretty broken and bad.

I came back just doing my thing and ignoring the hype and yet I still seem to have been assaulted by poor decisions.

[Chipputer]

9 minutes ago, Aerensiniac said:

mandatory

This community has destroyed what this word means.

[Mak_Gohae]

7 minutes ago, Aerensiniac said:

And enjoying it more than having a 12 meter vacuum. Because logic.

Vaccum has had its ranged reduced by 50% and instead of making it universal its now sentinel only. Sorry. We asked for balancing, the removal of an item which was so mandatory 90% of the player base used it. Instead we got this, and people like you. And then everyone wonders why warframe forums is cancer.

Isnt this balancing?

All sentinels got it as a passive. And because it's an extra totally free ability that means that it should be toned down.

The funny thing from all of this is that im sure that when vac was broken into 3 mods the range likely stayed the same because the BALANCE here is that you are losing up to two extra slots. But people flipped out and now we got this.

So dont blame other people, blame yourselves for jumping the gun.

[Shockwave-]

6 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

No it hasn't.  Not even close to 12%.  I go over it here.

 

Yeah you go "over it there" but you were wrong in that thread and you are wrong here. You tried to look at 1 tenno killing everything in a straight  line. and never leaving the ground. Sure that's fine, but we don't play that way. We use Ember, whose WOF is much bigger than 6m. We use Equinox with maim, we use Sound quake banshee. We play with 3 other tenno that are not in a straight line in front of us.

You aslo seemed to forget that the sentinel (above and behind the tenno) is the center of the sphere, reducing the range on the ground level even further. The volume has been reduced by 7/8. The plane circle only exists 1m+ off the ground. and its area was reduced by 3/4.

[Top_Kekkonen]

DE, please. Stop this nonsense and revert the change to vacuum's range. This is not going to make you money in the long-term. There is no reason to nerf vacuum's range. If you really want us to gain less resources, then nerf the drop rates. Not a mechanic which allows fast paced combat. 

[ZeroSample]

14 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

No it hasn't.  Not even close to 12%.  I go over it here.

 

No, the area of effect has indeed been reduced to that amount.

What you were pointing out, was the actual effectivity (totally disagree with your points,by the way).

Edited October 6, 2016 by ZeroSample

[ZectorV1]

1 minute ago, Top_Kekkonen said:

DE, please. Stop this nonsense and revert the change to vacuum's range. This is not going to make you money in the long-term. There is no reason to nerf vacuum's range. If you really want us to gain less resources, then nerf the drop rates. Not a mechanic which allows fast paced combat. 

Oh god don't say that what have you done

[Top_Kekkonen]

Just now, Zectorcop said:

Oh god don't say that what have you done

Hey, It's worlds better than this awful vacuum nerf. imo

[ZectorV1]

Just now, Top_Kekkonen said:

Hey, It's worlds better than this awful vacuum nerf. imo

Vacuum shouldn't exist in the first place it should just be a function. (I do agree with you though 100%)

[Aerensiniac]

12 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

Once again, you miss the point.  The vacuum on my helios has now increased from 0 to 6m.

Coincidentally, The vacuum on my dethcube has also increased from 0 to 6m.

You know what else?  Just by happenstance, the vacuum on my diriga has increased from 0 to 6m.

Randomly, the vacuum on my shade has also increased from 0 to 6m.

I could keep going on about how vacuum has increased on all my other sentinels except carrier.  Vacuum did drop a bit on carrier.  But overall, vacuum is better.

Oh, and you know what else?  I didn't lose a single mod slot on ANY SENTINEL for vacuum and I actually gained one on carrier.

Because logic.

The direct conclusion of your logic is that having a 0.01m vacuum on everything would be even better, and it makes vacuum the best thing ever.

Just imagine all the weapons and projectiles you could add a 0.01m vacuum to while conveniently forgetting that vacuum has its functionality defined by its range, and a 50% reduction is called a nerf, and a pretty bad one at that because 12m was the bare minimum one could consider functionally worth it.

You also choose to ignore the fact that DE was directly requested to balance an imbalanced item and presented a perfectly rational way to do it. Instead they choose to refuse the balancing and fk it up for everyone. If at least we had the original 12m vacuum on all sentinels i would agree with you, but your idea of a good solution=vacuum range/number of sentinels is bs.

Also:

Knock yourself out.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Aerensiniac

[Caramello]

I made this thing for the people saying that "area and volume has nothing to do with the vacuum"

You can test it yourself: 105% range for 6meters radius, 235% range for 12meters

Edited October 6, 2016 by CarameIIo

[Aerensiniac]

2 minutes ago, CarameIIo said:

I made this thing for the people saying that "area and volume has nothing to do with the vacuum"

You can test it yourself: 105% range for 6meters radius, 235% range for 12meters

Redo the image.

This perspective wont show the actual range from your feet. Nobody can get a feeling of it. Also we cant tell how far you are from the globes, which distorts it even further.

[Top_Kekkonen]

Just now, Zectorcop said:

Vacuum shouldn't exist in the first place it should just be a function. (I do agree with you though 100%)

If "should just be a function." means vacuum should be a warframe passive. then I agree.

[Caramello]

Just now, Aerensiniac said:

Redo the image.

This perspective wont show the actual range from your feet. Nobody can get a feeling of it. Also we cant tell how far you are from the globes, which distorts it even further.

Thats why i gave the range % so everybody can test it, just wanted to give some real ingame perspective on the nerf.