Bladestorm rework feedback

[Cat_Jam]

Or just tap 4 to begin marking enemies (once the limit is reached, the oldest mark is replaced by the newest) and tap 4 again to execute the finisher animations.

[Drufo]

... I'd like to revive two things I'l like to see changed about Ash:

Fist, the look of the clones. Since Ash uses smoke in his abilities (except Shuriken) what about making the clones look like they're made out of smoke? It's just an aesthetic change, nothing game breaking.

Second, I'd like Smoke Screen to be revisited. Now it's just a short invisibility with a little stun. My idea is to make it create a real cloud of smoke that confuses enemies inside and reduce a lot the accuracy of enemies shooting from outside (warframes would be able to see enemies like they see through the codex). The augment Smoke Shadow would turn allies that pass through the cloud into... smoke shadows . Besides the aesthetic effect, it would increase evasion for a short time

 

Edited October 8, 2016 by Drufo

[Doctor_Grayfield]

31 minutes ago, Sannidor said:

Press 4 and hold to mark enemies presented in the stream seems like awkward way to use such a power.

99% PC players use keyboard&mouse, even with joypad it is not the best solution.

I think you might have misunderstood them (or maybe I did?)  I think they meant, you press 4 to activate bladestorm.  Then you hold (what I assumed was) your fire button (i.e. left mouse button) and sweep your crosshairs across the enemies you want to kill (repeatedly if you want to mark them for more hits), then let go when ready.  The way Reb was doing it was seamless and quick, and she held it and ran for awhile.  Holding down the 4 button would be very clunky, I agree, so I hope I understood it right.  Think I'm going to watch the stream again to be sure.

Tapping 4 to mark won't be better than sweeping across targets either though.  You can miss the click and delay the whole effect.

EDIT:  Ugh, yep, I misunderstood it.  I'll wait to play it to give it a proper critique, but it sounds weird, yeah.  Agreed.

Edited October 8, 2016 by Windspike

[Dawn11715]

15 minutes ago, Cat_Jam said:

Or just tap 4 to begin marking enemies (once the limit is reached, the oldest mark is replaced by the newest) and tap 4 again to execute the finisher animations.

that might be the best way to handle this, that way non of your fingers stays occupied, and you can move and attack normally while marking

[Trichouette]

21 minutes ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

What I don't like is that it does nothing to address the more glaring issues with the move:

1. It's a cutscene.
2. It takes away Ash's ability to do anything else for the duration of the animation.
3. "Full" invulnerability.

And that's DE's way to fix stuff...

Wow, you have to hold 4 and aim at enemies, the only difference is that you won't be targeting 18 persons anymore, there is almost NOTHING changed regarding how brainded the ability is.

They could've removed ash as part of the backstabing and let the clones do the stuff, this way he isn't immortal & in a cutscene...

[(PSN)xXBearPawz]

smoke bombs maybe? 

[Dawn11715]

24 minutes ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

What I don't like is that it does nothing to address the more glaring issues with the move:

1. It's a cutscene.
2. It takes away Ash's ability to do anything else for the duration of the animation.
3. "Full" invulnerability.

While I welcome appropriately applied nerfs, this is a nerf that doesn't actually fix anything and doesn't add anything new to the ability. I mean... mechanically, what is different? Blade Storm will still be used the exact same way, it suffers from the exact same drawbacks and frustrations, and the issue of animation duration may actually get worse if target cap is determined by energy available.

I actually like it to be a cutscene, thats the basic idea of the ability (which they didnt wanted to change according to the latest devstream)

However, with this hold mechanic, the ability is at least somewhat more interactiv.

[Doctor_Grayfield]

26 minutes ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

What I don't like is that it does nothing to address the more glaring issues with the move:

1. It's a cutscene.
2. It takes away Ash's ability to do anything else for the duration of the animation.
3. "Full" invulnerability.

I don't think DE ever said that they intended to change these things.  They just want to take away the ability to hit one button and trivialize content.

I personally like the cut scene; many people do.  And if you think about it, it does allow you to control the animation length at least; you can control how many times you attack, so the duration is kind of up to you.

[(PSN)xXBearPawz]

Love rework cant wait 

[Xaero]

I guess this change promotes using smoke bomb and taking a view-clear point. Very ninja-y. But main problems of Baldestorm are still there, I'd rather they have reworked it into something completely new.

[AdunSaveMe]

Not even half as bad as pressing one button and having the game play itself.

"Press 4 to mark" isn't bad by default. You can turn boil most things down to something that simple.

[Trichouette]

35 minutes ago, Windspike said:

I don't think DE ever said that they intended to change these things.  They just want to take away the ability to hit one button and trivialize content.

I personally like the cut scene; many people do.  And if you think about it, it does allow you to control the animation length at least; you can control how many times you attack, so the duration is kind of up to you.

It's still brainded, they could've given us better, especially with ALL the feedback post.

In the end we waited for months just to get a change from "press 4 to hit 18 enemies" to "hold 4 to hit as many as you can with your energy pool"

And if they really increase the damage output, i won't stop laughing, as if finisher damage & DoT wasn't enough.

Edited October 8, 2016 by Trichouette

[Tsoe]

41 minutes ago, Trichouette said:

And that's DE's way to fix stuff...

Wow, you have to hold 4 and aim at enemies, the only difference is that you won't be targeting 18 persons anymore, there is almost NOTHING changed regarding how brainded the ability is.

They could've removed ash as part of the backstabing and let the clones do the stuff, this way he isn't immortal & in a cutscene...

 

The rework sound very cool in fact

it change a lot actually...

_you can multi mark 1 ennemie

_you have to think and aim while avoiding bullets instead of mindlessly pressing 4

_create a synergy with smoke bomb

 

you wont be immortal while locking targets

 

now it open another question will they change teleport?

Teleport will have to change cause it will be just overlapping since you can Bladestorm 1 ennemie only if you want

[Trichouette]

Just now, Tsoe said:

 

The rework sound very cool in fact

it change a lot actually...

_you can multi mark 1 ennemie

_you have to think and aim while avoiding bullets instead of mindlessly pressing 4

_create a synergy with smoke bomb

 

you wont be immortal while locking targets

 

now it open another question will they change teleport?

Teleport will have to change cause it will be just overlapping since you can Bladestorm 1 ennemie only if you want

Synergy with smoke bomb ? Yeah big synergy, you could just use arcane trickery, especially since people will still use him with max efficiency and lower duration. That ability is still awful.

And unless you appear on the last enemy backstabbed, it's still not "teleport" yet.

Anyway bladestorm has always been more or less a mixup of all his other abilities, slash proc from shuriken, immortality which is a bit like invisibility in this game, and teleporting everywhere.

 

It doesn't change the fact that it's still a mindless cutscene that makes you immortal, and holding 4 > moving your cursor everywhere > releasing, that's not really a weakness

[Tsoe]

Just now, Trichouette said:

Synergy with smoke bomb ? Yeah big synergy, you could just use arcane trickery, especially since people will still use him with max efficiency and lower duration. That ability is still awful.

And unless you appear on the last enemy backstabbed, it's still not "teleport" yet.

Anyway bladestorm has always been more or less a mixup of all his other abilities, slash proc from shuriken, immortality which is a bit like invisibility in this game, and teleporting everywhere.

 

It doesn't change the fact that it's still a mindless cutscene that makes you immortal, and holding 4 > moving your cursor everywhere > releasing, that's not really a weakness

 

What about...

 

trying it first and see what's come out?

[Trichouette]

2 minutes ago, Tsoe said:

 

What about...

 

trying it first and see what's come out?

I don't see how that'll change anything, if the ability becomes what they said it'll be, we know exactly what will come out.

People will play him max damage & efficiency as always, hold 4 and move their crosshair everywhere in order to mark people and then it'll be good ol' stabby stabby cutscene.

[herflik]

Bladestorm need animation fixes, most of the time it looks clunky and buggy. The speed of it is super slow, the targeting is non-existant, just press button and watch.

Personaly I would prefer to change this skill to channeling skill, so hold down button.

As long as you hold the button down the faster you attack, the more energy it drains, the higher range it have.

Remove invulneraibility from it (maybe give only dmg reduction buff), speed up and animation greatly and make it lower starting range. On the end the ability stats should look like this:

 

Attack enemies around you in range of 10m +1m per 1 second of channeling (force the player to be actualy somewhere near enemies, Ash is ninja themed anyway)

Starting energy cost : 25

Channeling energy cost: 5 per second + 5 per second of channeling (100 energy means 5 seconds of channeling)

Number of attacks : 2 attacks per second + 1 per 2 seconds of channeling (using the skill with 100 energy is equal to 14 attacks)

Additional buff : 30 % damage reduction during channeling

Additional debuff: all forms of energy regeneration is turned off during channeling, including possiblity to pick up of energy orbs

 

If you will be able to keep up the ability for longer time then it will be real storm, since on 10th second you are already dealing 6 attacks per second within 20m radius.

 

[Love2Camp]

Didn't watch the stream, just read the overview, but this change sounds clunky as hell. Even IF you can mark a million guys at once, it's still two clicks to even start it, where alot of frames have one click, and stuff dies. Sounds like something that would only be useful solo. Kinda disappointed, this doesn't sound fun at all.

[ShakeyMac]

I'll never understand people clamoring for nerfs in a largely pve game where everyone has access to everything.

[Kaotyke]

Ok, the ONLY Problem I have here is the fact that I have to hold down a button to Mark enemies.

Its VERY awkward with a keyboard and it will be even more with a controler.

[Nazrethim]

I'm honestly dissapointed with BS rework because it doesn't really solve any of the other issues current BS has other than the press42win.

And I'm VERY dissapointed they did nothing for Ash's other abilities that need a serious revision.

While they made it a little more interactive, the "interactive" part was supposed to be on the actual attacking not on the targeting. It also makes Teleport pointless, so where's the synergy? the only I can kind of find is "you need to cast smoke screen first so you don't get killed while you mark targets". Trying to solve the NEW issue with BS by increasing damage is boring as hell too.

I would prefer if DE just throw Ash rework in the workbench for a few months, keep BS the way it is until they have time to come up with something better.

[sonkun]

9 hours ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

What I don't like is that it does nothing to address the more glaring issues with the move:

1. It's a cutscene.
2. It takes away Ash's ability to do anything else for the duration of the animation.
3. "Full" invulnerability.

While I welcome appropriately applied nerfs, this is a nerf that doesn't actually fix anything and doesn't add anything new to the ability. I mean... mechanically, what is different? Blade Storm will still be used the exact same way, it suffers from the exact same drawbacks and frustrations, and the issue of animation duration may actually get worse if target cap is determined by energy available.

Congrats u nailed it, In my opinion, the only real reason for a rework, are the points listed above.

But DE may think the diaporama is the reason people play ash. Because ash tv is so much fun -.-' 

edit: removed accidentally inserted link

Edited October 8, 2016 by sonkun

[SDGDen]

this is exactly what smoke bomb needs. since atm its just a weaker version of loki's invisibility that is slightly better in a couple realy specific scenario's

[Dragazer]

Agreed, on the clones part, holograms seem more of Loki thing rather than Ash.

[Prepotenza]

6 hours ago, Sannidor said:

Overall, good to see continuation of 'no more press 4 to win' policy, not that there's many unbalanced frames left, coughEmbercough.

You guys do play a different game, right?
Ember is a really underpowered frame.
Its damage falls off so quickly that you can't rely on that (even with Accellerate).
The augments aren't that great, they can't properly CC as they should do (and there are many frames that can CC in a wider area for a longer time).
Ember is good just for level <40 missions, cause you can kill most mobs without even having to target at them.

Honestly RQ Banshee is about 1 billion times stronger than Ember: higher damage, wider area, longer CC.
Rhino (stomp cc build) and Nova are "press 4 to win" frames and they perform million of times better than Ember (cause, you know, CC > damage).
But you guys keep talking about Ember cause you read somewhere it was good and you keep blaming him without understanding the frames's powers at all.