Valkyr Prime design lore discussion

[kgptzac]

45 minutes ago, Stoner74 said:

Contradiction. 

" In Orokin era, "Valkyr" looked like what we now know as Valkyr Prime"

"In contemporary times and before Alad V's torture, Valkyr looked like herself in Gersemi skin"

How can that be then? Valkyr prime looks more post Alad V than gersemi. She has the same "gauntlets/restraints" or whatever you call them on both the prime and tortured version. There is a paradox. 

Chordalla Prime: Ceremonial ribbons, worn with pride.

That's the game's official description.  In game the ribbons don't look like restrains from the non-prime Valkyr.  Also, look at the "base" thing tied to Valkyr's lower arm, and compare to the "base" of Valkyr's lower arm.  One of them look like forcefully installed Corpus tech, the other looks like a decorated component with orokin style.  I'll let you decide which one is is which.

[AcceI]

On 1/4/2017 at 10:04 PM, AcceI said:

Its gonna be FEB.  Im betting on Feb if they said JAN.

Be weird if they came out with the video in MAR when the next prime is due for release.

Wow. Gave DE a month and was still wrong. Then the trailer releases after Banshee prime's trailer and solves nothing.  So Valkyr prime is into bondage ribbons...Kawaii!....That's the kind of stuff I like!

Spoiler

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Edited March 14, 2017 by AcceI

[folklore504]

13 hours ago, Kerberos-3 said:

Really? No, just really? How ignorant can you be? The Lore for both Valkyr and Nova is very well established in that neither should have Prime forms, though for different reasons. I'll start with Valkyr, since her's is less convoluted.

The Codex entry for Valkyr very clearly states that her present condition, both physically and mentally, are a direct result of what Alad V did to her. Going by this simple fact, it is hardly unjustified to assume that, once upon a time, Valkyr was a very different frame, and guess what? We don't even have to imagine what that other Warframe would look like, because it exists as Valkyr's Deluxe skin, Gersemi. Therefore, asking for an explanation for the existence of Valkyr Prime is hardly wrong, seeing as it's existence is a major paradox in terms of the Lore.

As for Nova, this one is more tricky. As far as we know, the Orokin were a tyrant race. What does a tyrant fear above all else? Loss of control. Loss of control means loss of power, and that is never acceptable for any tyrant. But how does this connect to Nova? Quite simply, Nova's profile video clearly states that she was a result of the Tenno High Council's research, but her Prime is a paradox. Why? Simple. The definition of a Prime, as we know it, is the original version of a weapon or Warframe as created by the Orokin. However, Nova cannot have existed during the time of the Orokin. Why? Because the High Council wouldn't have existed, and they wouldn't have existed because the existence of a self-governing group of Tenno would have represented a major threat to Orokin supremacy.

The codex entry hardly states, that her mental condition was the result of being tortured for the Zanuka project.   She always was the beserker frame.

[GKDK]

Why are we arguing among ourselves. It's quite simply DE goofed big time on Valkyr's lore and didn't even bother to explain anything in the trailer cause it's messed up. 

[Kerberos-3]

3 hours ago, folklore504 said:

The codex entry hardly states, that her mental condition was the result of being tortured for the Zanuka project.   She always was the beserker frame.

Do I seriously need to quote it for you? Never mind, I'll do it anyways:

"Forged in the labs of the Zanuka project, the original Valkyr was subject to cruel experiments, leaving her scarred, angry and frighteningly adept at killing."

You really cannot get any more obvious than that. It very clearly states that Valkyr's mental condition is a direct result of what Alad V did to her.

[Stoner]

5 hours ago, GKDK said:

Why are we arguing among ourselves. It's quite simply DE goofed big time on Valkyr's lore and didn't even bother to explain anything in the trailer cause it's messed up. 

Why are we arguing? Because it's hard to understand for some people that DE messed up (And they admitted it).

We want answers, but after that trailer, I'm not expecting them to give us anything in regards to her prime. In their minds they are done with it. They'll move on even if it's wrong.

Edited March 14, 2017 by Stoner74

[Mak_Gohae]

35 minutes ago, Stoner74 said:

Why are we arguing? Because it's hard to understand for some people that DE messed up (And they admitted it).

We want answers, but after that trailer, I'm not expecting them to give us anything in regards to her prime. In their minds they are done with it. They'll move on even if it's wrong.

 

lets wait until the writer that was hired comes in and solves everything. 

In fact, why dont we make a list of things to fix to send to him now? First on the list, what's up with Valk P's looks?

[folklore504]

3 hours ago, Kerberos-3 said:

Do I seriously need to quote it for you? Never mind, I'll do it anyways:

"Forged in the labs of the Zanuka project, the original Valkyr was subject to cruel experiments, leaving her scarred, angry and frighteningly adept at killing."

You really cannot get any more obvious than that. It very clearly states that Valkyr's mental condition is a direct result of what Alad V did to her.

Yet almost all pieces of Valkyr lore we have, that aren't contradicting each other in essence state she was already in a constant state of rage.  The torture just made it worse better visible. Heck the new trailer which admittedly doesn't say much, in essence puts forth that some frames were barely controllable by the Tenno. Also I apologize if my response early seemed irritating.  

As to the writer coming in and clarifying things, I'd love for that to happen.   To add to Mak_Gohae's list.   Where does Gersemi fit into the timeline?   Did the Orokin struggle with controlling some warframes, even when the Tenno were used?  Why did they make the Valkyr? 

[Stoner]

1 hour ago, Mak_Gohae said:

lets wait until the writer that was hired comes in and solves everything. 

In fact, why dont we make a list of things to fix to send to him now? First on the list, what's up with Valk P's looks?

I wish him good luck with that mess, really. 

And there's not many fixes I'd like to see from him besides Val and her broken lore caused by her prime's design. It needs a model change. I know I know, very unlikely. But one can hope.  

[DatDarkOne]

5 hours ago, Kerberos-3 said:

Do I seriously need to quote it for you? Never mind, I'll do it anyways:

"Forged in the labs of the Zanuka project, the original Valkyr was subject to cruel experiments, leaving her scarred, angry and frighteningly adept at killing."

You really cannot get any more obvious than that. It very clearly states that Valkyr's mental condition is a direct result of what Alad V did to her.

Nope.  All it says is that it left her scarred, angry, and adept at killing.  It does not say that she wasn't a berserker type before that.  It does say that Alad V scarred and made her more angry.  All Warframes are adept at killing.  Let's take Deadpool as an example.  He was a damn good merc before the experiments.  After them he's scarred, crazier, and much better at killing.  Hmmm, sounds similar doesn't it.   :D

I'm just saying to look exactly at what was written/stated without any assumptions, and there won't be as many problems.  Happy hunting Tenno.  :D

Edited March 14, 2017 by DatDarkOne
added info

[(PSN)Silverback73]

5 hours ago, Stoner74 said:

I wish him good luck with that mess, really. 

And there's not many fixes I'd like to see from him besides Val and her broken lore caused by her prime's design. It needs a model change. I know I know, very unlikely. But one can hope.  

Honestly?

I saw this as a Dermis/epidermis skin, reskin and re-reskin based on Valkyr Prime's Orokin DNA.

Writing good stories around descriptive snippets and video game mechanics is a relatively new Artform.

Here's how the retcon/rewrite can make sense, though I suppose there are those who won't accept anything except a full-on new Prime.

The Corpus worship the Orokin and seek to rediscover their secrets.  With that premise...

Tenno Valkyr (Gersemi Deluxe Skin)

Gersemi is the closest approximation to the original Prime frame in terms of power that the Tenno could create.  Perhaps Gersemi was the first Tenno to master it's animalistic nature and had feline-like qualities.  Or maybe Gersemi was the designer and took some artistic liberties to represent Valkyr's feral nature as feline.

Corpus Valkyr ("Original Game Valkyr") 

The Gersemi Warframe is discovered/captured by the Corpus prior to the events that led to the Lotus re-awakening the Tenno through their frames.

Alad V wants to understand and discover everything Orokin and skins the Gersemi Valkyr alive (dermis/epidermis torture) removing the Gersemi influences and trying to replicate the pure Orokin Prime template as closely as he can with Corpus Tech.

Alad tortures, deconstructs, and reconstructs Valkyr for the sole purpose of making her as "Orokin" as possible, even down to the cosmetic level, in hopes of unlocking her secrets. 

Ever efficient, the stripped Gersemi skin is repurposed by the Corpus as Zanuka's skin.

Hence, Corpus Valkyr resembles:

Valkyr Prime

The original.  She is pure unbridled, untamed power (hence the Valkyr Prime cinematic).

She is not the raging and scarred animal tainted and lessened by the Corpus machine.

She is not the artistically embellished Gersemi, limited by Tenno technology.

She is Valkyr Prime.

 

 

 

[(PSN)watt4hem]

Here's my two cents.

Valkyr prime was og, gresemi was the tenno made/mass produced one. Alad v tried to restore gresemi to the prime hence taking of the tail etc but failed

 

Edit: apperantly silver back and i had the same idea

Edited March 15, 2017 by (PS4)watt4hem

[arch111]

It is an assumption that Zanuka uses Valkyr Gersemi armor. I am unsure if that is confirmed or not.

The Gersemi> tortyred valkyr was how I allways thought it went.

The Prime have matching gear to the experiment and Gersemi do not. So that makes the experiment look like a dismembered Prime.

[folklore504]

10 hours ago, arch111 said:

It is an assumption that Zanuka uses Valkyr Gersemi armor. I am unsure if that is confirmed or not.

The Gersemi> tortyred valkyr was how I allways thought it went.

The Prime have matching gear to the experiment and Gersemi do not. So that makes the experiment look like a dismembered Prime.

While it is an assumption that Zanuka uses the Gersemi armor, it is know that first generation Zanuka's were made partially from dissected warframes.   Considering how the Zanuka looks during the boss fight, it would not be surprising if that is what happened. 

[arch111]

2 hours ago, folklore504 said:

While it is an assumption that Zanuka uses the Gersemi armor, it is know that first generation Zanuka's were made partially from dissected warframes.   Considering how the Zanuka looks during the boss fight, it would not be surprising if that is what happened. 

It was this unvalidated lore that made us assume the Prime would look more like Gersemi.

I seriously thought Valkyr Prime would be a succubus or angel.

We all know corpus val looks too buff to have been armor-stripped. And Gersemi looks too slim to have much armor.

I think they failed on many fronts with all 3 designs.

 

[folklore504]

2 hours ago, arch111 said:

It was this unvalidated lore that made us assume the Prime would look more like Gersemi.

I seriously thought Valkyr Prime would be a succubus or angel.

We all know corpus val looks too buff to have been armor-stripped. And Gersemi looks too slim to have much armor.

I think they failed on many fronts with all 3 designs.

 

Just looking at the pictures of regular and Gersmi, and I really don't think Gersemi looks too slim.   As for unverified lore, its stated quite explicitly that Gersemi is pre-zanuka project.  On another note, How would you get Succubus from valkyr prime?  I can see angel connotations potentially because of Valkyrie/Valkyr linkage.  

[arch111]

With armor removed we got this.

That actually looks stronger to me. The wings and tail are gone, the markings of a demonish imp.

Then we have the Prime. 

Wings and tail are gone and the model is based around corpus valkyr.

We have all gone over this.

Some agree, others do not.

Fact is, DE said there was "challenges" with the Prime. They wanted vanilla and prime to share the same referencepoints, and that messed with our heads because "Before the Experiment there was Gersemi".

That have not changed. As a result it seems like Corpus got their hands on some Primes and Gersemi. They made Zanuka from both and then tried to control what was left and that gave us angry valkyr Project X.

But we still have no official word.on it. 

[folklore504]

1 hour ago, arch111 said:

With armor removed we got this.

That actually looks stronger to me. The wings and tail are gone, the markings of a demonish imp.

Then we have the Prime. 

That have not changed. As a result it seems like Corpus got their hands on some Primes and Gersemi. They made Zanuka from both and then tried to control what was left and that gave us angry valkyr Project X.

But we still have no official word.on it. 

I'm really not seeing the issue with corp valkyr being a skinned version of Gersemi. Visually it fits, as you can still see bits of gersemi skin on regular valkyr. This is not counting the massive oddity that is Valkyr prime, of which I feel like we are arguing on the same side with each other.  The side being, where does Valkyr Prime fit in and how. 

The demonic aspect is entirely opinion based, so each to there own on that. 

[texrei]

11 hours ago, folklore504 said:

I'm really not seeing the issue with corp valkyr being a skinned version of Gersemi. Visually it fits, as you can still see bits of gersemi skin on regular valkyr.

They have different body models and the original looks thicker (in some places). But no one can say that Alad didn't add some armor over her

 

[folklore504]

7 hours ago, texrei said:

They have different body models and the original looks thicker (in some places). But no one can say that Alad didn't add some armor over her

 

Fair enough.  I can't exactly see the thicker bits, but my eye for detail is not very good.  Or seeing in general. 

[NightmareT12]

14 minutes ago, folklore504 said:

Fair enough.  I can't exactly see the thicker bits, but my eye for detail is not very good.  Or seeing in general. 

To add more on what texrei said: Proportions are off on tighs, lower legs, shoulder pads, feet, default helmet is completely different (default Valkyr helm is kind of a closed Lotus bud, which the Prime ressembles much more).

I mean, Mynki knew what he was doing because the Zanuka and Valkyr patterns are there, but guess he had to go back to original mesh for the Prime, so...

As I said all these months ago: They should have probably waited.

[folklore504]

6 hours ago, NightmareT12 said:

To add more on what texrei said: Proportions are off on tighs, lower legs, shoulder pads, feet, default helmet is completely different (default Valkyr helm is kind of a closed Lotus bud, which the Prime ressembles much more).

I mean, Mynki knew what he was doing because the Zanuka and Valkyr patterns are there, but guess he had to go back to original mesh for the Prime, so...

As I said all these months ago: They should have probably waited.

Thank you for pointing those out.  

[Raqyia]

Assuming this hasn't already been said: I'd say that the Valkyr having the blocky arm things as a prime is more or less just to hold maybe a mile's worth of gilded strangling rope for her abilities.

 

[(XBOX)ZenithLord 42]

So I guess no one understands that each Warframe was designed, then tested, and was perfected (primed) by the Orokin? The normal frames came first, (like prototypes) then the Orokin, once they had functioning prototypes, designed the actual production models or primes. (Which were made specifically for the Tenno to operate.) 

Valkyr began as Gersemi Valkyr and was able to channel energy into berserking, basically becoming indestructible. The Orokin improved on the first design by removing some armor, upping her animal side, but also installing segments to keep her controlled. 

Alad V in his experiments to create the perfect Corpus Proxy, took pieces of different Warframes (Volt, Gersemi Valkyr, Frost, etc...) and made Zanuka. He also discovered that torturing a berserking Warframe and unleashing it under his control also could be useful. 

So, like the Orokin, Alad V tried to improve on the original Valkyr, and drew the same conclusions as they did on how to do so. He just went about it a little more painfully. 

[(XBOX)Tanta Cinta]

They probably won't do anything about it. Valkyr Prime looks great albeit she's no Gersemi. Sometimes things may not go accordingly as planned and the case of Valkyr Prime is an example.