Better starter frame options

[tnccs215]

20 minutes ago, Noamuth said:

5 Tenno Lab frames, I thought?

Banshee, Volt, Zephyr, Wukong and Nezha?

I wouldn't mind Nyx as a starter either. But I think the Starters should all be Tenno Lab.

mh... All starters as tenno lab do make sense tbh. DE obviously is of the opinion that the starters should be left to last, and getting into a clan isn't instantaneous.

Still, already 5 lab frames? That's a bit too much imo

[MagPrime]

1 minute ago, tnccs215 said:

mh... All starters as tenno lab do make sense tbh. DE obviously is of the opinion that the starters should be left to last, and getting into a clan isn't instantaneous.

Still, already 5 lab frames? That's a bit too much imo

Especially when it's two of the newest

[Grekkatarq]

I started with loki back in time then later moved on volt and now he is my main. Not really sure on this topic because each frame can be easy and hard in the same time and I know the loki removed because of the early game is sometimes was bad for him because he is mod dependant and his stats are weaker than any others in the current list. I would just say keep it up the current rooster and add maybe for a female frame to balance the choice 2 male 2 female. Nyx or Trinity can be the "relatively" best choice to this starter role because with trinity the new players have support-heal regen ability if they just use the well of life with nyx they have a good cc frame which not extremely hard to master. Before this they need a better tutorial and some in game video tutorial how possible to use these frames then the beginner players can make their choices and maybe know better what that frame can give.

[(PSN)watt4hem]

I like the options as it is for now. But if i could change em up i'd only change volt for a tank. Currently we got 1 allarounder and 2 cc frames as starter. I'd like newbies to have an option to play as a tank (saryn is better imo as rhino's iron skin is kinda op in early game tbh).

Also, that way squad of newbies can somewhat make a better synergy

[(PSN)watt4hem]

1 hour ago, Grekkatarq said:

Before this they need a better tutorial and some in game video tutorial how possible to use these frames then the beginner players can make their choices and maybe know better what that frame can give.

This. Put a mini clip/gif on the frame selection screen that demonstrate each powers like the stance combo gif on the wiki

[AerinSol]

8 hours ago, SurrealEdge said:

Loki was removed simply due to how hard it was to survive without the right mods to sustain him. So he was replaced with Volt who was also a starter frame early on, if I recall.

Having Rhino as a starter defeats having his parts drop on Venus.

Actually they removed him because the starting cinematic requires you to kill with abilities while lotus overcharges your warframe with energy.

I suggest a 4th to be added. Preferably Hydroid followed by Oberon then Nyx. With Hydroid they will be able to do finisher damage on everything, which is great for low-level planets. Oberon will introduce how to think with extensive modding and different tactics. Plus the heal factor. Nyx just feels out of place being dropped with Phorid and isn't overpowered early on without decent modding.

[Horaciozhao]

Loki is not a good starter frame, it´s hard to survive without mods, which newbies don´t have and won´t get them fast by themselves

[tnccs215]

56 minutes ago, AerinSol said:

Actually they removed him because the starting cinematic requires you to kill with abilities while lotus overcharges your warframe with energy.

I suggest a 4th to be added. Preferably Hydroid followed by Oberon then Nyx. With Hydroid they will be able to do finisher damage on everything, which is great for low-level planets. Oberon will introduce how to think with extensive modding and different tactics. Plus the heal factor. Nyx just feels out of place being dropped with Phorid and isn't overpowered early on without decent modding.

God, I think Hidroyd simply is a bad idea, at least in his current stage. Subpar, boring and redundant everything, with almost all abilities being copy paste from other frames. He really doesn't bring anything new to the roster. If you choose hydroid, you might as well choose any of the others.

In my opinion, Nyx and Oberon (by this order) are better ideas. Nyx offers pure crowd control, being great for those focused on it (mag is more a fusion of CC, debuffing, damage and support, while Nyx is pure CC with a splash of damage); and Oberon (despite redundant and copy paste first and ultimate and having hallowed ground's tactical advantage being subpar to magnetize --for new players, they end up being similar -- all of this leading to him not bringing that much to the roster) does have healing abilities, which are annoyingly absent from the starters (and we all know Trinity is simply too good).

 

[AerinSol]

1 hour ago, tnccs215 said:

God, I think Hidroyd simply is a bad idea, at least in his current stage. Subpar, boring and redundant everything, with almost all abilities being copy paste from other frames. He really doesn't bring anything new to the roster. If you choose hydroid, you might as well choose any of the others.

In my opinion, Nyx and Oberon (by this order) are better ideas. Nyx offers pure crowd control, being great for those focused on it (mag is more a fusion of CC, debuffing, damage and support, while Nyx is pure CC with a splash of damage); and Oberon (despite redundant and copy paste first and ultimate and having hallowed ground's tactical advantage being subpar to magnetize --for new players, they end up being similar -- all of this leading to him not bringing that much to the roster) does have healing abilities, which are annoyingly absent from the starters (and we all know Trinity is simply too good).

 

And that is because you know the game. These frames give more insight and playability. How is Hydroid having abilities being copy/paste from other frames bad for a new player? It will give them an accurate idea on what to go for after rhino.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Excal will never change because he is the poster boy.

Volt is an amazing choice.

DE thinks Loki is too complicated for newbies.

Mag is a crap choice, was my starter, and almost made me quit the game.

A better choice would be: Replace Mag with Oberon. This would fix so many issues. People would probably lay off of Oberon being too weak too, because it would make sense for a starter to be lower tier.

Rhino is too strong for a starter, and is better where he is since he is typically the frame most players farm first.

[Arniox]

15 hours ago, Firefly0037 said:

on top of that, but you'd also be practically cheesing the first few planets until you get the next frame with how much of a tank he could be early on.  He's meant to serve as the next upgrade for the next set of planets.

to the OP, the frames right now are perfect.  You've got easy (excalibur), medium (volt), and difficult (mag) options for the player to choose from.  The only thing I would change is adding in those difficulty listings more transparently.  Let's be honest, a new player isn't going to instantly "get" all of mag's synergies and playstyle as quickly as they would excalibur.

 

yeah true.

[Azur_Fenix]

18 hours ago, xXx_mtv_xXx said:

Rhino as a starter frame would just create a community of new players who don't want any other frame lol

Its the cod piece.

[Rekkou]

The idea of starter is that so you learn instead of having everything easy in the first place.

Will you learn stealth properly if you can be invisible all the time?

Will you learn combat, avoiding fires and knockdown if you can eat bullets and headbutt a rocket?

With Volt you learn how to defend, support, cc without cheesing it

With Mag you learn how to support, debuff, cc without cheesing it

I won't be surprised if new players who grow with Loki or Rhino complain about nullifier after they dive through a horde of nullifiers believing they can cheese it.

[Darkmoone1]

In terms of adding a fourth frame as a starter, I wouldn't mind Nyx.

The current frames are fine though.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

while I'm a Rhino main, he shouldn't be a starter frame, mainly because his durability outclasses the others, and people will be less likely to learn the basics of dodging, which will restrict them to using tanky frames only or going down a lot. his MR5 requirement is also something to work towards, and until the newbies learn about Forma, Void Traces and other things secretly linked to MR, they will only work for things like Rhino and Dragon Nikana, which clearly state they need to be unlocked. I think we're fine with Volt, Excal and Mag.

 

[Arniox]

16 hours ago, xFrostKnightx said:

How dare you!  Just kidding, he's one of the 4 frames in desperate need of a rework.  But it would be nice for new players to play the unpopular frames so de would stop ignoring them or new/fresh players ignoring them because they don't want to use anything except rhino/excal/valkyr/nova

2

Limbo, Oberon, Hydroid....

Who's the fourth one?

[Arniox]

15 hours ago, Noobverest said:

Nope.

my point was that IF oberon was a starter AND, IF I picked Oberon as a starter, and IF I end up getting a lot of Oberon parts from playing the game, THEN IT WOULD feel crappy. Not "if you have the frame and you get parts it'll suck."

 

I had a friend that picked Excalibur and then he asked me "which frame is the most expensive in wf market?" and it was actually Volt. He felt pretty crappy afterwards since Excalibur is actually the cheapest on the market. Not sure if it's still the same now since I don't check market regularly.

 

why would the cost of frames matter, though? You can farm everything without spending a single penny or spend any plat at all (negating cosmetics).

Why would expense matter when choosing your starter frame? You can farm everything and thus volt is kinda easier to get than excal because all you need to do is join a dojo.

[Gran_Maw_Sigmus]

30 minutes ago, Arniox said:

Limbo, Oberon, Hydroid....

Who's the fourth one?

Banshee and Zephyr come to mind, as far as I know they're the two frames people want reworks for the most, except maybe Limbo.

[AuroraSonicBoom]

47 minutes ago, Gran_Maw_Sigmus said:

Banshee and Zephyr come to mind, as far as I know they're the two frames people want reworks for the most, except maybe Limbo.

Nah, Limbo, Zephyr and Oberon, followed by Hydroid are the top requests. Mostly because they have a bigger player and/or fanbase.

[Obviousclone]

ember's not that problematic- remember that a new player is a solid one hundred hours before they come close to getting Fleeting Expertise.

 

I don't think loki or nyx (or a bunch of other picks) can work as starters- (besides my own disapprovement of their squishy base stats) there's the issue of the tutorial teaching players to use their first power to kill an enemy-it's literally the first thing the game teaches you.

 

Oberon I think would be a fantastic addition, his jack-of-all-trades utility makes him a versatile pick for any mission and therefore any player's playstyle but my only gripe against him, is that it would make the starting roster 3 males 1 female.

 

Ash could be a starter (and fulfills the stealth class without breaking the tutorial), but the issue of his 4 is what holds him back from being "new player friendly"

Edited November 25, 2016 by Obviousclone

[xiaodenden]

Excalibur, Mag, and Volt are perfectly fine starter frames.  Those three are are my most played frames and I still use them regularly.  Mag was my first and she was a great choice for me.  Warframe is my first third person shooter so I was horrible at shooting when I started.  Her Pull was cheap and easy to use and it's saved me so many times.  Her Shield Polarize was the Corpus killer and the shield restore from that power was nice.  Bullet Attractor was nice against bosses or hard to kill targets.  I didn't bother with Crush because it was too slow and expensive.  Anyway, back to the three starters... They occupy different kind of niche (Excal melee scrapper type, Mag caster, Volt generalist/crowd control/support) and provide a good preview of what's to come.  You can pretty much use them right out of the box or have a decent build by using a few basic mods.  

Loki is hard to use for new players considering that new players have no access to some specialized mods required to make Loki powerful.  Trinity don't have straight forward damage dealing power, and beginners need as many damage dealing tools as possible because their weapons are subpar and they don't have the essential damage mods.

I wouldn't mind having a fourth starter frame, maybe a female frame to balance the ratio and/or something that's fairly newbie friendly yet have enough depth for older players to keep using.  Maybe Ember?  The starter list is missing a DPS frame (yes, I know she can do crowd control but I'm talking about low level missions), and new players don't have the right mods to keep World on Fire on for the entire whole mission so they can't use it as a crutch.

At least new players aren't locked into their choice for a long time, and if they join in a decent clan, they have easy access to a bunch of frames now.

Edited November 25, 2016 by xiaodenden

[(XBOX)HenCeption]

7 hours ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

Excal will never change because he is the poster boy.

Volt is an amazing choice.

DE thinks Loki is too complicated for newbies.

Mag is a crap choice, was my starter, and almost made me quit the game.

A better choice would be: Replace Mag with Oberon. This would fix so many issues. People would probably lay off of Oberon being too weak too, because it would make sense for a starter to be lower tier.

Rhino is too strong for a starter, and is better where he is since he is typically the frame most players farm first.

ya mag is a awful starter choice and im not saying she is bad all around people just need more advanced mods to make her viable and you simply wont have them early game. Oberon would be a great choice but people people want a female choice alot of the time. Maybe nyx?

[Sziklamester]

If I need to suggest then the current rooster is fine. I started with Loki back in time and learned to move and avoid beign shot down but It was hard in the first few times. Loki is very mod dependant and his Stats weak so not a Good starter option. I can explain the other frames too now from a beginner perspective. Banshee not good because hard to master and squishy and the new players want more attravtive gameplay. Same with the Trinity because she is a full support and her skills not direct killer abilities. Nyx is better option but her skills a little bit confusing for new players. Ember nope because when she reach lvl 10 the she spam her ulti then others complain on kills. Rhino spam and facetank his foes and peoples can go far with him but he cant teach peoples to play safety instead rush on mobs and go suicide. The other frames are more advanced like Limbo, Hydroid, Oberon Each of them viable in certain missions and levels but these frames need tweaks to be viable in higher levels without the fear of beign oneshotted. This last is up on all frames except Valkyr whom can survive 3-4 of them. So there are great Ideas but They should fix major systems before fixing the beginner tutorials and introduce other frames as beginner.

[Dreddeth]

Now, the usual trifecta is Fighter, Mage, Thief, or Tank/Brawler, Burst Damage (either in the form of casters or rogue types), Healer/Support.

The first trifecta doesn't work unless we *deep breath* make Ash a starter. He's the only stealth frame not made of paper, which makes him the only stealth frame that won't immediately die the second you make a mistake with low-ranked mods. So that means Blade Storms everywhere.

The second trifecta could work if we swapped Volt for Oberon or Nyx. Not entirely sure how that would go down, but both could use some more visibility, and Oberon in particular does have the kind of versatility that a noob would find useful.

[Noobverest]

10 hours ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

Excal will never change because he is the poster boy.

Volt is an amazing choice.

DE thinks Loki is too complicated for newbies.

Mag is a crap choice, was my starter, and almost made me quit the game.

A better choice would be: Replace Mag with Oberon. This would fix so many issues. People would probably lay off of Oberon being too weak too, because it would make sense for a starter to be lower tier.

Rhino is too strong for a starter, and is better where he is since he is typically the frame most players farm first.

 

Ah..................... that bothers me so much.......

 

Volt.....a starter..... suppose to belong to........... lower tier..........................................................................

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh I am so bothered by this.

 

Excal is really balanced, has CC, movement, a good ability, aoe attack. Great poster boy.

Mag is.... hard to use for a newbie..... One day you might know of her very limited uses. She's not THE best, but she has her use.

Volt is just, one of the best frames in the game. Speed buff, Shock CC, Shield that boosts damage and blocks damage, Ultimate that can be modded for CC or low level clearing.....

 

Basically what I'm trying to say is: The only thing in the game I'd consider as Lower tier would be Limbo. Maybe Ash, depending on the rework.

Every other frame in the game is viable, so I'd put them at mid-tier.

Top tier would have Volt, Rhino, Inaros, Nova prime, etc.....

Edited November 25, 2016 by Noobverest