Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[(XBOX)Natfrog123]

I can mele down 30 enemies in about 4 - 6 seconds easily. Blade Storm takes about 5 seconds to mark 30 enemies. Then you have to sit through a "quick time" event for another 30 seconds since each attack takes about 1 second.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 1 Minute schrieb (Xbox One)Natfrog123:

Yes! How do you not understand how abilities are there to ENHANCE killing or ENHANCING survivability. If it isn't better than the tools we already possess, what is the point of them? You spend a resource to do something that improves something.

By that logic, any damage is worse then CL?

Boi will all the ember, equinox, banshee, excal, chroma players be dissapointed if i tell them.

Then again, they kill faster, like, much faster in low level content. And ash's bladestorm kills faster in any mid-high high level content. 

Criteria for good design met.

[(XBOX)Natfrog123]

Just now, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

By that logic, any damage is worse then CL?

Boi will all the ember, equinox, banshee, excal, chroma players be dissapointed if i tell them.

Then again, they kill faster, like, much faster in low level content. And ash's bladestorm kills faster in any mid-high high level content. 

Criteria for good design met.

No he does not. That is what I am telling you. EVERY frame can wipe ANY map with AoEs since you are going to include "all tools readily available" in this discussion which I didn't want to bring up BTW, but you seem to want to. CP on 4 frames and EVERYTHING DIES ANYWAYS. If you are going to run a high level anything if you are not running CP then you just suck. But as you said it is a tool available to all players and frames. 

[(XBOX)Natfrog123]

On top of that Octavia doesn't need CP to be MUCH better killer than Ash but I love how you keep avoiding this fact.

[DiabolusUrsus]

4 minutes ago, Firetrucksrule said:

If it wasn't intended then we wouldn't have leaderboards. I've seen DE members go well beyond sortie 3 level on Prime Times and other live streams.

No, they have flat-out stated that endless scaling is not supposed to be balanced.

That doesn't mean we aren't supposed to play endless content, but it absolutely positively should NOT EVER be part of a serious balance discussion.

Leaderboards are there as a fun measurement for people who care. That's it.

7 minutes ago, Firetrucksrule said:

We even had that event, The Pacifism Defect that required going way beyond those levels for a lot of clan sizes. You might not be forced to play beyond sortie 3 but it's definitely the top end of intended difficulty, it's usually the top end of mandatory difficulty.

Wrong.

You are assuming DE fully considers all the implications of content they release, when their track record shows that they most certainly DON'T. I guarantee you DE doesn't have a proper grasp of what being in something like a Moon Clan is like.

11 minutes ago, Firetrucksrule said:

Not to mention we wouldn't have so much equipment and frames available that easily scale past level 1000.

NO.

We have all that crap because players with nothing else to do constantly run deep into endless scaling, ignore that it's not supposed to be balanced or beatable, and use their experiences for discussing balance!

And DE went along with it because letting players focus on an "end game" they created for themselves to pass the time (remember Infested Defense back in the day?) is a LOT easier than actually developing a proper end-game! Not only that, they don't even have to offer any worthwhile rewards for it!

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb (Xbox One)Natfrog123:

No he does not. That is what I am telling you. EVERY frame can wipe ANY map with AoEs since you are going to include "all tools readily available" in this discussion which I didn't want to bring up BTW, but you seem to want to. CP on 4 frames and EVERYTHING DIES ANYWAYS. If you are going to run a high level anything if you are not running CP then you just suck. But as you said it is a tool available to all players and frames. 

Yoou sure you're not exagerating? I mean are you really, really sure? I mean i could ask you to make a vid, here and now, where you kill 30 enemys with cl, one by one by one, and i could make a vid where i kill 30 enemys with BS

Are you 100% sure your vid would be shorter? ...

[(XBOX)Natfrog123]

Just now, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Yoou sure you're not exagerating? I mean are you really, really sure? I mean i could ask you to make a vid, here and now, where you kill 30 enemys with cl, one by one by one, and i could make a vid where i kill 30 enemys with BS

Are you 100% sure your vid would be shorter? ...

yes 100%

[(XBOX)Natfrog123]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Yoou sure you're not exagerating? I mean are you really, really sure? I mean i could ask you to make a vid, here and now, where you kill 30 enemys with cl, one by one by one, and i could make a vid where i kill 30 enemys with BS

Are you 100% sure your vid would be shorter? ...

But I wasn't the one talking about CL just so you know. I said 4 frames with CP. I kill with an atterax with prime reach doing over 30k red crits. Why would I want to slow down my ability to kill using a crappy 4 hour long cut scene?

[(XBOX)Natfrog123]

You keep saying that Ash kills faster at high level content but completely disreguard when I bring up Corrosive projection. Why? If we are, by you logic, using all available tools available to us Ash still does't kill faster at ANY level. Zero armor is Zero armor meaning enemies take the full hit of said damage. Ash does not have the highest consistant numbers so he would in fact kill MUCH slower.

[(XBOX)Natfrog123]

25 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Yoou sure you're not exagerating? I mean are you really, really sure? I mean i could ask you to make a vid, here and now, where you kill 30 enemys with cl, one by one by one, and i could make a vid where i kill 30 enemys with BS

Are you 100% sure your vid would be shorter? ...

Blind and CL sliding attack. Any more questions?

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb (Xbox One)Natfrog123:

You keep saying that Ash kills faster at high level content but completely disreguard when I bring up Corrosive projection. Why? If we are, by you logic, using all available tools available to us Ash still does't kill faster at ANY level. Zero armor is Zero armor meaning enemies take the full hit of said damage. Ash does not have the highest consistant numbers so he would in fact kill MUCH slower.

Then what? C'mon. What boosted with what does that 300k multitarget damage over 50m? Banshee? No way. Hydroid? Nah. Melee frames, now we're closer. Melee frames that can use the combo and survive the level range? Like 3. Ash, loki and maaaybe melee chrome (given he survives the recast)

we could also prolong that cl test to the reality of a normal game, we could try it with like 600-2000 enemys in a appropiate level range where finishing them one by one is really all you can do.

Think you'd stand a chance if i'm not adding a solid hour of intro?... i mean really? Is it that what you tell yourself?

Fact is that it's the exact middle ground between CL and AoE. Stronger then AoE, faster then CL and without requirements that force you to sacrifice something (how it is with CL, that forces you to sacrifice the stealth multipliers to it.)

It is not its fault that you don't like it, cause you obviously don't...to an extend where you appearently lost the grip to reality... BS slower then killing one by one? Frames doing 300k damage without problems... ???? Not one but ash can do that.

[(XBOX)Natfrog123]

Just now, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Then what? C'mon. What boosted with what does that 300k multitarget damage over 50m? Banshee? No way. Hydroid? Nah. Melee frames, now we're closer. Melee frames that can use the combo and survive the level range? Like 3. Ash, loki and maaaybe melee chrome (given he survives the recast)

we could also prolong that cl test to the reality of a normal game, we could try it with like 600-2000 enemys in a appropiate level range where finishing them one by one is really all you can do.

Think you'd stand a chance if i'm not adding a solid hour of intro?... i mean really? Is it that what you tell yourself?

Fact is that it's the exact middle ground between CL and AoE. Stronger then AoE, faster then CL and without requirements that force you to sacrifice something (how it is with CL, that forces you to sacrifice the stealth multipliers to it.)

It is not its fault that you don't like it, cause you obviously don't...to an extend where you appearently lost the grip to reality... BS slower then killing one by one? Frames doing 300k damage without problems... ???? Not one but ash can do that.

Why do you think you need 300k to kill ANY enemy? Most enemies can be killed in less then 20K while a select few take maybe 40K. You do not need 300K.

[(XBOX)Natfrog123]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Then what? C'mon. What boosted with what does that 300k multitarget damage over 50m? Banshee? No way. Hydroid? Nah. Melee frames, now we're closer. Melee frames that can use the combo and survive the level range? Like 3. Ash, loki and maaaybe melee chrome (given he survives the recast)

we could also prolong that cl test to the reality of a normal game, we could try it with like 600-2000 enemys in a appropiate level range where finishing them one by one is really all you can do.

Think you'd stand a chance if i'm not adding a solid hour of intro?... i mean really? Is it that what you tell yourself?

Fact is that it's the exact middle ground between CL and AoE. Stronger then AoE, faster then CL and without requirements that force you to sacrifice something (how it is with CL, that forces you to sacrifice the stealth multipliers to it.)

It is not its fault that you don't like it, cause you obviously don't...to an extend where you appearently lost the grip to reality... BS slower then killing one by one? Frames doing 300k damage without problems... ???? Not one but ash can do that.

I really don't understand ANY of what you were on about. 

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb (Xbox One)Natfrog123:

I really don't understand ANY of what you were on about. 

Your point is that CL is better then BS because of the damage, also that damage is unnecessary because fo the enemys. That BS is bad because of the animation,also that the animation from CL killing one by one is fine. That you can dissable armor for more damage before stating that the damage you do is yet again irrelevant.

What i'm on about? I'm beein objective to someone who is not.

Edited December 9, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[(XBOX)Natfrog123]

Ash cannot out the door do 300K. When talking about CL it is an instant kill against blinded targets. You blind an enemy, slide and press mele. They die. Can I do this to 30 enemies faster than you selecting 30 enemies and waiting another 30+ seconds for your animation to stop? Yes I can. Do i need to build up to do a massive amount of damage? No I do not. However Ash will. Straight out the door Ash is a kitten in high level areas. 

 

[(XBOX)Natfrog123]

Just now, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Your point is that CL is better then BS because of the damage, also that damage is unnecessary because fo the enemys. That BS is bad because of the animation,also that the animation from CL killing one by one is fine. That you can dissable armor for more damage before stating that the damage you do is yet again irrelevant.

What i'm on about? I'm beein objective to someone who is not.

NO. That was not MY point. I was talking about 4 players using CP not a dagger weapon however that fact is still true. 

CL you do not need to even use the "finisher" but surely you knew that. I am not going to argue how time consuming the ACTUAL finisher for daggers is. It's just not an issue when you bypass it and hit multiple enemies at once.

[(XBOX)Natfrog123]

 (Xbox One)RDeschain82

I am not in anyway this person.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)Natfrog123 said:

Ash cannot out the door do 300K. When talking about CL it is an instant kill against blinded targets. You blind an enemy, slide and press mele. They die. Can I do this to 30 enemies faster than you selecting 30 enemies and waiting another 30+ seconds for your animation to stop? Yes I can. Do i need to build up to do a massive amount of damage? No I do not. However Ash will. Straight out the door Ash is a kitten in high level areas. 

 

 

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)Natfrog123 said:

 (Xbox One)RDeschain82

I am not in anyway this person.

The point I was trying to make in a passive manner. My bad. 

[Nazrethim]

On 9/12/2017 at 5:43 PM, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Your point is that CL is better then BS because of the damage, also that damage is unnecessary because fo the enemys. That BS is bad because of the animation,also that the animation from CL killing one by one is fine. That you can dissable armor for more damage before stating that the damage you do is yet again irrelevant.

What i'm on about? I'm beein objective to someone who is not.

The problem with CL-TP(FT) isn't the time comparison, as they are pretty close. The problem is 'overlap'. BS is supposed to be used with crowds, but isn't any faster than your guns are, provided both are facing same enemy forces and modded at the same magnitude. BS is just slightly faster than FT and costs about the same, while having inferior damage in trade off of being useless against certain enemies. They do both the same Fing thing. That's the problem. BS should be faster and weaker than FT in exchange for dealing with crowds effectively but failing against specific elite enemies FT is meant for.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

Can someone please tell me how to put pics up on forum posts, me knowing this is going to help me do something relating to ash.

[Nazrethim]

5 hours ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

Can someone please tell me how to put pics up on forum posts, me knowing this is going to help me do something relating to ash.

 

Upload them to another site, then copy-paste the image link on the Forum post. (and don't click on the "display as link" pop up)

[Phobonaut]

Just give Ash a number of void specters when he performs BS to speed it up and be done with it.

[locca_locca]

※I am using English translation because English is not good.

DE. Please give me the second Rework of ASH.
I only want one of the following.

· I want BladeStorm operation like Fronst's Avalanche

I think operation like MESA 's Peacemaker is not suitable for ASH.

[Doomsknightmare]

LOL this is the greatest thread of the forum

[Shad0wWatcher]

On 12/25/2017 at 6:24 AM, Doomsknight said:

LOL this is the greatest thread of the forum

And apparently still active.