Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[Doomsknightmare]

 

[(PSN)Vexx757]

On 12/24/2017 at 4:26 PM, locca_locca said:

※I am using English translation because English is not good.

DE. Please give me the second Rework of ASH.
I only want one of the following.

· I want BladeStorm operation like Fronst's Avalanche

I think operation like MESA 's Peacemaker is not suitable for ASH.

So far I like the sound of this, can you please explain if you can?

[locca_locca]

21 hours ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

So far I like the sound of this, can you please explain if you can?

※The range of Blade Storm matches the smoke screen.

1. Blade storm activates to enemies within 10 m centering on Ash. (From the Blade Storm before rework, close to those with long range removed)
2. Or, in the target mode, enemies within 10 m centering on Ash will be automatically marked. (Let's stop doing aim)

My idea is over.
Either way, I think that it is easier to use than it is now.

 

 

[(PSN)Siriguillo]

In any case, isnt this the official DE ash feedback thread? when will these feedbacks be addressed or acknowledge? 

[(PSN)Siriguillo]

On 12/9/2017 at 3:45 PM, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

By that logic, any damage is worse then CL?

Boi will all the ember, equinox, banshee, excal, chroma players be dissapointed if i tell them.

Then again, they kill faster, like, much faster in low level content. And ash's bladestorm kills faster in any mid-high high level content. 

Criteria for good design met.

Your arguments makes sense... if Ash was in Uncharted and the Alternative was using Nathan Drake, but in warframe currently ash is simply not good for a horde game. You say he can kill mid high content fast, go have a look at loki, nova, nidus and octavia, those guys dont care about levels and still will clean the map.

Edited December 29, 2017 by (PS4)Siriguillo

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 22 Minuten schrieb (PS4)Siriguillo:

 

Octavia is literally the only frame in your list that really doesn't have to care about levels when clearing the maps... I mean loki? Really?

Like Ash doesn't have the same stealth option loki has... play him with melee for the multipliers -> trigger BS to clear enemys you've missed -Bigger effect, faster?!

That's quite literally how i've been playing him ever since the rework.

Edited December 29, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Hypernaut1]

On 12/29/2017 at 12:00 PM, (PS4)Siriguillo said:

In any case, isnt this the official DE ash feedback thread? when will these feedbacks be addressed or acknowledge? 

When they start being reasonable and not based on hyperbole. Bladestorm is far from a useless ability. Exaggerating won't force the devs to give Ash a nuke or exhalted weapon

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

On 12/29/2017 at 12:20 PM, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Octavia is literally the only frame in your list that really doesn't have to care about levels when clearing the maps... I mean loki? Really?

Like Ash doesn't have the same stealth option loki has... play him with melee for the multipliers -> trigger BS to clear enemys you've missed -Bigger effect, faster?!

That's quite literally how i've been playing him ever since the rework.

 

1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

When they start being reasonable and not based on hyperbole. Bladestorm is far from a useless ability. Exaggerating won't force the devs to give Ash a nuke or exhalted weapon

If you guys aren't going to join the circle jerking of exaggerating how bad Ash is in this thread then you shouldn't waste your time here.

[Hypernaut1]

16 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Angryspy101 said:

 

 

If you guys aren't going to join the circle jerking of exaggerating how bad Ash is in this thread then you shouldn't waste your time here.

you're right. i just check it out every now and then when i see it nekro its way back to the top. i mainly hope to see some more reasonable people in here asking for real changes, not another frame

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)Angryspy101 said:

 

If you guys aren't going to join the circle jerking of exaggerating how bad Ash is in this thread then you shouldn't waste your time here.

 

1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

you're right. i just check it out every now and then when i see it nekro its way back to the top. i mainly hope to see some more reasonable people in here asking for real changes, not another frame

The BS "rework" was terrible, but you guys can keep riding DEs nuts. 

I'll just leave this ^ here...Nah it's cool no need to reply. Because deep down the "marking system" is ridiculous and you both know it. 

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb (Xbox One)Angryspy101:

 

If you guys aren't going to join the circle jerking of exaggerating how bad Ash is in this thread then you shouldn't waste your time here.

Adding something that isn't the effect of trying to abuse it (energy, time, speed and boredome is only an issue if you try to p4tw and beein adapted by some people who want it to change for pvp) isn't that unimportant in threads like these.

I mean people could get the impression that people really don't like or play ash, rather then staying away from the cancer those threads are if left unargued. 

Edited December 31, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

2 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Adding something that isn't the effect of trying to abuse it (energy, time, speed and boredome is only an issue if you try to p4tw and beein adapted by some people who want it to change for pvp) isn't that unimportant in threads like these.

I mean people could get the impression that people really don't like or play ash, rather then staying away from the cancer those threads are if left unargued. 

Honestly at this point, we gotta hope players try ash out and get THEIR OWN OPINION about whether they like him or not and not just blindly follow other's opinions of him.

Most new players that I know of who plays ash doesn't really mind bladestorm.

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

2 hours ago, (Xbox One)RDeschain82 said:

The BS "rework" was terrible, but you guys can keep riding DEs nuts. 

2 hours ago, (Xbox One)RDeschain82 said:

Nah it's cool no need to reply. Because deep down the "marking system" is ridiculous and you both know it. 

This is the reason why I can't take this thread seriously, maybe DE would have done something if 80% of the comments in this thread wasn't full with these ridiculous and unconstructive comments.

You showed me a picture a comment made a year ago, and it didn't even provide any solutions.

I'm wasting my time here, bye.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

35 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Angryspy101 said:

This is the reason why I can't take this thread seriously, maybe DE would have done something if 80% of the comments in this thread wasn't full with these ridiculous and unconstructive comments.

You showed me a picture a comment made a year ago, and it didn't even provide any solutions.

I'm wasting my time here, bye.

You must be new because there was a year's worth of great solid feedback before we got the BS marking BS we have today. But you would never know that because you were never a part of those conversations. 

You are right tho, you are wasting your time here, much like that silly marking mechanism DE calls a Blade Storm. Lol

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb (Xbox One)RDeschain82:

You must be new because there was a year's worth of great solid feedback before we got the BS marking BS we have today. But you would never know that because you were never a part of those conversations. 

You are right tho, you are wasting your time here, much like that silly marking mechanism DE calls a Blade Storm. Lol

You mean the ridiculous koga cult that was going around at that time? The communal effort that turned into a S#&$storm that's lasting to this day after theyr ideas got ignored? We two must have a different understanding of great, solid feedback. All i see are salty people.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

38 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

You mean the ridiculous koga cult that was going around at that time? The communal effort that turned into a S#&$storm that's lasting to this day after theyr ideas got ignored? We two must have a different understanding of great, solid feedback. All i see are salty people.

I could go search them all but you and I both know that would be a waste of time. Because you have already dismissed them all because you think Ash's BS is fine. And there can't possibly be a way to designed it better. 

But there is also irrefutable evidence in this thread,  that the majority of this thread think BS is terrible and have offered good feedback on how to improve it, but you probably haven't even read the thread and have no idea the general consensus is to rework his BS again. 

Edited December 31, 2017 by (XB1)RDeschain82

[Trickst3rGawd]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

You mean the ridiculous koga cult that was going around at that time? The communal effort that turned into a S#&$storm that's lasting to this day after theyr ideas got ignored? We two must have a different understanding of great, solid feedback. All i see are salty people.

If all you see are salty people you should just look the other way and kindly leave the thread. I would be super bummed out out if this thread got locked because of one closed minded person :/.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb (Xbox One)RDeschain82:

I could go search them all but you and I both know that would be a waste of time. Because you have already dismissed them all because you think Ash's BS is fine. And there can't possibly be away to designed it better. 

But there is also irrefutable evidence in this thread,  that the majority of this thread think BS is terrible and have offered good feedback on how to improve it, but you probably haven't even read the thread and have no idea the general consensus is to rework his BS again. 

Oh, i've been there till the beginning. Seen most of the rework ideas, even had a constructive talk or two with the sect leader of that time until he started posting private conversations in said threads and basicly kept ignoring BS's issues (eximus loops and such), together with damage types (how realistic is it for ash to get a finisher based exalted ability? AoE that scales like that?)

I've even been part of the wave like a week after the rework, until i realised how much better my builds got, how much stronger it got and how well it plays with melee, how well it worked with past naramon and well it does today.

I'm ok with what it is because i actually gave it a chance and was satisfied with the results. Because it was so much better then the past meta.

Don't fool yourself. I'm only taking that stand cause the salt didn't get to me. Cause it was a fine rework that adressed all his past issues and pushed what he's best at, which only got better as time passed.

Edited December 31, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

50 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Oh, i've been there till the beginning. Seen most of the rework ideas, even had a constructive talk or two with the sect leader of that time until he started posting private conversations in said threads and basicly kept ignoring BS's issues (eximus loops and such), together with damage types (how realistic is it for ash to get a finisher based exalted ability?)

I've even been part of the wave like a week after the rework, until i realised how much better my builds got, how much stronger it got and how well it plays with melee, how well it worked with past naramon and well it does today.

I'm ok with what it is because i actually gave it a chance and was satisfied with the results. Because it was so much better then the past meta.

Don't fool yourself. I'm only taking that stand cause the salt didn't get to me. Cause it was a fine rework that adressed all his past issues and pushed what he's best at, which only got better as time passed.

You're. Wasting. Your. Time

There's no point in staying in this semi-forgotten echo chamber, especially if what you're echoing doesn't go along with everyone else.

[Shad0wWatcher]

1 hour ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Oh, i've been there till the beginning. Seen most of the rework ideas, even had a constructive talk or two with the sect leader of that time until he started posting private conversations in said threads and basicly kept ignoring BS's issues (eximus loops and such), together with damage types (how realistic is it for ash to get a finisher based exalted ability?)

I've even been part of the wave like a week after the rework, until i realised how much better my builds got, how much stronger it got and how well it plays with melee, how well it worked with past naramon and well it does today.

I'm ok with what it is because i actually gave it a chance and was satisfied with the results. Because it was so much better then the past meta.

Don't fool yourself. I'm only taking that stand cause the salt didn't get to me. Cause it was a fine rework that adressed all his past issues and pushed what he's best at, which only got better as time passed.

It's good that you have an opinion of your own, you like the rework and that's fine, but you can't deny that there are some fundamental flaws with the ability, 1 being the fact that while the ability itself is actually a good one, but it feels like it belongs in a different type of game.

I've played around with my build, only realizing i never needed to change my build to begin with. And so far, i get my use out of it(sometimes), but in a game where you are always on the move, shooing enemies left and right, slashing, all things that are more efficient than using bladestorm, i can see why some people here keep calling it a useless/redundant ability cause you often don't really get a chance to use it much, i myself don't really have a solution for it, but i can admit that the ability itself comes off as clunky, it's not broken, it's not as a terrible skill like many here(including me at one point) have said, but it's not really great either. But f*ck it.

I've kinda lost hope for DE even taking a look at Ash's abilities again, they have other things to do. Hell, according to a player whose name i can't remember, even Scott himself said at TennoCon that he himself felt Ash was in a good place right now, not sure what place he meant, so i figure it's just best to learn to like/love the ability.

Edited December 31, 2017 by Shad0wWatcher

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 51 Minuten schrieb Shad0wWatcher:

 

Useless/redundant? Isn't it the same for melee?

Melee is a source of damage which is limited by range, requires movement to even get the damage, only to attack single enemys if you're not using overspecialised builds on a very few selected weapons but it is the strongest source of weapon damage in the game.

Melee is a damage option that scales off combo, which makes crit scale off it too, which scales off stances, channeling, stealth, even attack patterns and reflects it onto status, only to give results that easily oneshot enemys with the resulting status alone. What it fails at is synergy tho, ways to reflect the damage outside of its range (saryns original rework concept was close to this ideal but didn't manage to keep it in its final cut), ways to work with a frame without overshadowing them and it fails on the fact that it's animated melee and not instant ranged damage. Sounds familiar doesn't it? Cause THIS is also where current Bladestorm is.

Bladestorm needs LoS while melee needs range, but you get LoS while you gain range. And its range is phenomenal without even building for it.

Bladestorm has animations and you loose time using it but so does melee and you actually win time by the sheer fact that you can attack enemys you'd have to backtrack otherwise.

And most importantly, it's neather superior, nor inferor to melee but scales together.

It is the only ability in the game that adresses melee's issues on the same concept... Can't we have one frame, one ability that does that? May melee be what it is, it is a choice. And ash in his current state easily the best pick for this choice.

Edited December 31, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Nazrethim]

14 hours ago, (Xbox One)Angryspy101 said:

 

If you guys aren't going to join the circle jerking of exaggerating how bad Ash is in this thread then you shouldn't waste your time here.

We don't say Ash is bad. We say Bladestorm is bad. And we are 100% right on that.

 

9 hours ago, (Xbox One)Angryspy101 said:

Honestly at this point, we gotta hope players try ash out and get THEIR OWN OPINION about whether they like him or not and not just blindly follow other's opinions of him.

Most new players that I know of who plays ash doesn't really mind bladestorm.

Funny how every time someone tries Ash and posts forum feedback is always on the lines of "the frame is fine, but the 4th s*cks". And most of the new players I knew who use Ash don't mind BS because they don't use it, no reason to when it's outperformed by everything.

6 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Useless/redundant?

Useless only by comparison to the other available tools, that greatly outperform it outside of very specific circumstances. Redundant? definetly. Ash already had a target-by-target assassination tool, he didn't need another. What he needs, as a damage dealer frame, is an effective way of dealing with crowds beyond weapons.

6 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Bladestorm needs LoS while melee needs range, but you get LoS while you gain range. And its range is phenomenal without even building for it.

That's actually a bad thing, because Power Range then becomes a nigh useless dump stat, which is bad design. Having stats that are weaker for meta is acceptable, but straight up useless isn't.

6 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Bladestorm has animations and you loose time using it but so does melee and you actually win time by the sheer fact that you can attack enemys you'd have to backtrack otherwise.

Except you actually PLAY while in melee animations, with BS you just watch.

6 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

And most importantly, it's neather superior, nor inferor to melee but scales together.

Actually, at base values Melee is better (cause doesn't need stupid amounts of energy and it's faster) and at meta builds it's STILL better because, you guessed it, it's faster and more powerful.

6 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

It is the only ability in the game that adresses melee's issues on the same concept... Can't we have one frame, one ability that does that? May melee be what it is, it is a choice. And ash in his current state easily the best pick for this choice.

Can we give it at least 2 positive changes to make it actually viable? Like cutting off the cutscene by having clones assisting, and the simpel stat change of toning down the cost to sane levels? (about 100 energy for 20 enemies, in line with other ultimates that don't have target cap)

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 44 Minuten schrieb Nazrethim:

 

Can we give it at least 2 positive changes to make it actually viable? Like cutting off the cutscene by having clones assisting, and the simpel stat change of toning down the cost to sane levels? (about 100 energy for 20 enemies, in line with other ultimates that don't have target cap)

Short version:

"Can it be p4tw?"

- The literall 90% of this thread.

Edited December 31, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

1 hour ago, Nazrethim said:

We don't say Ash is bad. We say Bladestorm is bad. And we are 100% right on that.

 

Funny how every time someone tries Ash and posts forum feedback is always on the lines of "the frame is fine, but the 4th s*cks". And most of the new players I knew who use Ash don't mind BS because they don't use it, no reason to when it's outperformed by everything.

Useless only by comparison to the other available tools, that greatly outperform it outside of very specific circumstances. Redundant? definetly. Ash already had a target-by-target assassination tool, he didn't need another. What he needs, as a damage dealer frame, is an effective way of dealing with crowds beyond weapons.

That's actually a bad thing, because Power Range then becomes a nigh useless dump stat, which is bad design. Having stats that are weaker for meta is acceptable, but straight up useless isn't.

Except you actually PLAY while in melee animations, with BS you just watch.

Actually, at base values Melee is better (cause doesn't need stupid amounts of energy and it's faster) and at meta builds it's STILL better because, you guessed it, it's faster and more powerful.

Can we give it at least 2 positive changes to make it actually viable? Like cutting off the cutscene by having clones assisting, and the simpel stat change of toning down the cost to sane levels? (about 100 energy for 20 enemies, in line with other ultimates that don't have target cap)

See every time good feedback happens

1 hour ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Short version:

"Can it be p4tw?"

- The literall 90% of this thread.

You get this "its my way our the highway" cop out BS. P4tw blah blah blah. 

@Nazrethim coold thinks BS is fine, and you can't reason with him because unless DE says it's fine he's gonna defend whatever DE throws together and calls a "good rework" Nvm 90% of this thread using objective feedback calling BS terrible, overlapping and failing to accomplish what the rework was supposed to accomplish. 

Also players like him think they are the only "real Ash players" because only those complaining about the BS can't use it correctly... It's a bunch of egotistical arrogant drivel. I can, and I'm sure many others can use it just fine..doesn't mean the ability is a good designed. 

Edited December 31, 2017 by (XB1)RDeschain82

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

1 hour ago, Nazrethim said:

We don't say Ash is bad. We say Bladestorm is bad. And we are 100% right on that.