Limbo Needs to be Un-Nerfed, Not Reworked

[ssh83]

Most things about Limbo is learning how to think outside the box and using mods that people forget exist.

The biggest problem with Limbo is the troll-factor.  Can't pick up stuff?  Can't interact with stuff because a Limbo Banished you?  Those are the main sources of annoyance, but side effects of Limbo nerfs.

I'm fine if DE keep the nerf on Limbo players, who play the nerfed frame willingly, but remove those restrictions on banished allies. 

 

[Cyborg-Rox]

The Hek are you talking about? Limbo works almost identically to when he was first released. The biggest change made after the Archwing update is that players in the Rift can't hack panels. That's it.

[PoisonHD]

2 minutes ago, Cyborg-Rox said:

The Hek are you talking about?

Well done.

Edited November 28, 2016 by PoisonHD
If it was intentional

[(XBOX)x Deathcraft x]

You can just roll out of banishment anyway...

[morningstar999]

17 minutes ago, Cyborg-Rox said:

The Hek are you talking about? Limbo works almost identically to when he was first released. The biggest change made after the Archwing update is that players in the Rift can't hack panels. That's it.

someone hasn't played limbo that much.  I'm gonna link this rather than go through it all myself but they have seriously broken how a lot of the rift mechanics atm, (these may not be intentional changes but they have broke a lot of it an not bothered to fix it)

also to the OP: you can just forward roll out of being in the rift. A good limbo player will ask the person if they want rifting before doing so. 

 

Edited November 28, 2016 by morningstar999

[shut]

21 minutes ago, ssh83 said:

Most things about Limbo is learning how to think outside the box

That's like saying that you need to "think outside the box" to play as an invisible Loki.

You press 2 and become immune to damage sources. You press 1 and make hostages / Excaliburs immune to damage sources. Boom. You've mastered Limbo's primary roles.
There is nothing "outside the box" about Limbo gameplay in terms of strategy. He is not difficult to play.

[Cyborg-Rox]

1 minute ago, morningstar999 said:

someone hasn't played limbo that much.  I'm gonna link this rather than go through it all myself but they have seriously broken how a lot of the rift mechanics atm,

also to the OP: you can just forward roll out of being in the rift. A good limbo player will ask the person if they want rifting before doing so. 

 

None of those problems are direct, intentional nerfs to his abilities. It's just how the game happens to work... for every Warframe.

[Helljack84]

Step 1: Remove invulnerability from Snowglobe/Trinity because stupid/shouldn't exist for healthy game.

Step 2: Limbo...

 

[Zavenosk]

Limbo's only nerf (consoles) was actually vary reasonable.  The problem with Limbo is that its really not that good outside gimmicky strategies to begin with, which is hard on those of us who genuinely enjoy playing Limbo. 

[PsiWarp]

Sorry, what? He needs to be un-nerfed yet you're okay if he isn't...?

Limbo doesn't need a drastic overhaul (which people now constantly assume when someone says "rework" and get triggered unnecessarily), but he does need changes and additions to make his kit less redundant (3 ways to enter/exit Rift, 1 way to buff yourself, no way to do anything remotely interesting like buffing teammates or debuffing enemies or CC)... on top of making his powers team-friendly.

Pickups and carryables restrictions have always been the intended design for Limbo, or more correctly, the Rift Plane mechanic. However, they are also design flaws (not nerfs) in his kit that heavily disrupt combat for teammates, who have no say on when/how they get into the rift, relying on and often hating Limbo for putting them there due to inconvenience.

DE started something resembling a balancing act with Rift Consistency (no access to interactive objects while in rift) and left it sitting promptly to fester into a bigger annoyance (teammates literally cannot call elevators or activate Life Support, why is this a thing). What started as a good intention created another tool for Limbo to troll with, and in the aftermath of the initial release 1 minute Banish fiasco (no way to exit rift unless Limbo decides for you), the community has not forgotten that oversight and haven't forgiven Limbo players since.

Thus, players who do play Limbo proficiently nowadays have developed a sort of Gentleman's Code. They stop to ask their team if it is okay to use Banish, they keep an eye on their Cataclysms to pop the bubble so others can loot, they tell people to roll or backflip to unpause the game, they explain the benefits of the Rift Plane as quickly and detailed as possibly can without pulling out the wiki, and many more. As much as I hate to admit it, time is what Limbo has, and time is what is wasted while explaining.

Those can be solved with adequate UI additions for visual learning, which I am still surprised they weren't included on day 1 given how complex Limbo and the Rift Plane can be. I hope these problems will be addressed, but not with simple changes, no. There's no miracle stat swap that will fix him.

[morningstar999]

10 hours ago, Cyborg-Rox said:

None of those problems are direct, intentional nerfs to his abilities. It's just how the game happens to work... for every Warframe.

what  on earth are you on about? any warframe that has an 'immortal state' doesn't still take damage from elemental things for exmaple.

I did say they weren't nerfs  but they are problems limbo has had for close to a year that need fixing. 

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

I've only been playing Limbo for a while so I only read about his patch notes. Those weren't nerfs. Some of them seemed like bugs that were fixed while others were band aid fixes to his trolling potential. Originally you couldn't roll out of the rift and originally, you couldn't turn off cataclysm. Lol imagine that. Its like DE didn't play test Limbo at all before releasing him.

IMO, his real problem is his potential to troll intentionally or accidentally. If DE can remove this trolling factor while keeping his play style intact, people won't mind having him in a squad.

I was on a sortie with my Limbo last night and the random players I was with really knew how to take advantage of Limbo's powers. I even got messaged "banish me" and then did what he had to do with his warframe's abilities. And when we fought Kelya, they completely knew they could hide inside my Cataclysm during an orbital strike or use it as hit and run cover from her attacks. Maybe its just the PS4 player base. I've never played this on PC.

[Cyborg-Rox]

1 hour ago, morningstar999 said:

what  on earth are you on about? any warframe that has an 'immortal state' doesn't still take damage from elemental things for exmaple.

I did say they weren't nerfs  but they are problems limbo has had for close to a year that need fixing. 

I just skimmed over the topic, but it seemed like it was mainly about things like falling into bottomless pits and going into Operator mode, which ends all of your abilities... for every Warframe, which is nothing new and nothing specific to Limbo.

[erny0507]

12 hours ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

And when we fought Kelya, they completely knew they could hide inside my Cataclysm during an orbital strike or use it as hit and run cover from her attacks. Maybe its just the PS4 player base. I've never played this on PC.

Most of the community knows on pc to use cataclysm for the orbital strike as well, in other words everybody that was on rathuum event regardless of their plataform knows to do that. 

[hukurokuju5]

all he needs are :

1) CC proc on enemies  tied to entry and exit of rift

2) timered teammate buffs/benefits on entry and exit of rift

3) QOL animation speed/mechanic buffs

 

these changes would be:

- EASY to implement, as kit stays basically the same

- encourage more interactive gameplay with the rift mechanics and teammates

 

 

 

[Troll_Logic]

Limbo needs to be rifted.  Forever.

98% of the people playing limbo have no idea how to do so.

[(PSN)LeonidasxGGG]

I am a Limbo main and I play mainly a supporting role. Many times the theam is all bleading and I'm the only one standing healing everyone. It is not the frame fault people are trolls... I had players asking me to put them in Rift just so we could get out of a tought spot and get to extration.

On 29 de novembro de 2016 at 6:22 AM, PsiWarp said:

Thus, players who do play Limbo proficiently nowadays have developed a sort of Gentleman's Code. They stop to ask their team if it is okay to use Banish, they keep an eye on their Cataclysms to pop the bubble so others can loot, they tell people to roll or backflip to unpause the game, they explain the benefits of the Rift Plane as quickly and detailed as possibly can without pulling out the wiki, and many more. As much as I hate to admit it, time is what Limbo has, and time is what is wasted while explaining.

My point exactly.

On 29 de novembro de 2016 at 10:54 AM, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

was on a sortie with my Limbo last night and the random players I was with really knew how to take advantage of Limbo's powers. I even got messaged "banish me" and then did what he had to do with his warframe's abilities. And when we fought Kelya, they completely knew they could hide inside my Cataclysm during an orbital strike or use it as hit and run cover from her attacks. Maybe its just the PS4 player base. I've never played this on PC.

Yes, I agree that it must be a PC problem. I play PS4 too and hardly find any problems (unless they are noobs).

On 28 de novembro de 2016 at 11:31 PM, SortaRandom said:

You press 2 and become immune to damage sources. You press 1 and make hostages / Excaliburs immune to damage sources. Boom. You've mastered Limbo's primary roles.
There is nothing "outside the box" about Limbo gameplay in terms of strategy. He is not difficult to play.

You obviously haven't play with Limbo that much.

[shut]

1 hour ago, (PS4)leonidasx666 said:

You obviously haven't play with Limbo that much.

Not trying to say that there's no depth to Limbo gameplay or anything; of course there's more to Limbo play than what I posted.

But as far as his main role in a squad goes (i.e. keeping stuff alive), it's really, really difficult to do your job poorly/incorrectly as a Limbo. Just like one almost has to make a conscious effort in order to die as a Loki.

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

Limbo is used in all sorts of ways. Most missions don't even require you to kill anything.

- In high level spy missions, I found being rifted is better than being invisible. Moving lasers, thumpers, electric floors or ice floors will still get you when invisible and most things that can see you, can be shot down.

- In capture, sabotage or rescue missions, you don't really need to kill anything to complete the mission. If you're just there for the nitain extract alert or for some reactor/catalyst BP or if its a sortie level mission, Limbo makes these missions trivial. Just run in there while rifted, do the thing and run out.

- Speaking of sorties, the first time I did a defense sortie, I was like "why is there a dude here? where's the cryo pod?." Limbo will actually protect the target better than Frost can in this situation.

- Infested no shield mode missions are a pain. Especially if its a hive mission. This is the most time I stay close to my team and keeps an eye on anyone that goes down.

- In survival missions, there's a limit to the number of enemies that can be on the map at a time. If one area is crowded, most areas are empty. I use Limbo to run around the map to activate life support in remote areas.when we need it.

- in mobile defense missions, a small cataclysm can be used to protect the objective against corpus or grenier weapons fire. It doesn't matter how many enemies shoot at you or how high their damage is or if they're AoE or eximus auras, the bubble will protect you. It has no hit points, just duration. Just run out the time until all consoles are hacked.

- In defense missions against infested, he can DPS with the best of them.

- Against bosses and general game play, I use Limbo as decoy or distraction with tonkor peak a boo strategies. There's 0 delay when you unrift. Just walk up to the enemy or go in the middle of a mob, unrift, blast them with a tonkor in the face at point blank and then rift back in. Your goal isn't to do damage here. Its to knock down crowds and make them attack you instead of your team.

[(PSN)LeonidasxGGG]

10 hours ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

 

- in mobile defense missions, a small cataclysm can be used to protect the objective against corpus or grenier weapons fire. It doesn't matter how many enemies shoot at you or how high their damage is or if they're AoE or eximus auras, the bubble will protect you. It has no hit points, just duration. Just run out the time until all consoles are hacked.

- In defense missions against infested, he can DPS with the best of them.

 

And don't forget that you can cast Cataclysm on the defense objective and still deal damage from the outside-in while in Rift. The enemies usually only want to hit the target inside the bubble, ence they don't shoot outside, and those outside cannot touch you because you are in Rift. If you have a Sinoid Symulor, just fill the bubble with shoots from the outside and no-one will be able to touch console/excavator/target while you remain safe... 

On 28 de novembro de 2016 at 11:31 PM, SortaRandom said:

There is nothing "outside the box" about Limbo gameplay in terms of strategy. 

...see? "Strategy" ;)

[Vance.Stubbs]

On 29.11.2016 at 6:08 AM, ssh83 said:

Most things about Limbo is learning how to think outside the box and using mods that people forget exist.

That's the saddest excuse for Limbo being useless in pugs I've ever seen. Sometimes I think that DE made Limbo that way just to laugh at fedora-wearing redditors who keep thinking that playing him makes them somehow "advanced players who can think outside the box".

We need "The average Limbo player" video badly.

Edited December 1, 2016 by Vance.Stubbs

[Duralumin]

Limbo needs a redesign because he's too selfishly designed. Either the entire team goes at his pace, or he just gets in the way.
Rift is way, WAY too polarizing a mechanic for one player to have exclusive control over it.

A simple "buff" does not make him any less selfish.

Here's an idea for a band-aid fix:

• 2 now affects your entire team no matter where they are on the map
• For the lifetime of the skill, players can freely exit and enter the rift by rolling
• It's also possible to enter the rift by touching a rifted enemy
• 1 is now AoE

Edited December 1, 2016 by Duralumin

[shut]

12 hours ago, (PS4)leonidasx666 said:

And don't forget that you can cast Cataclysm on the defense objective and still deal damage from the outside-in while in Rift. The enemies usually only want to hit the target inside the bubble, ence they don't shoot outside, and those outside cannot touch you because you are in Rift. If you have a Sinoid Symulor, just fill the bubble with shoots from the outside and no-one will be able to touch console/excavator/target while you remain safe... 

...see? "Strategy" ;)

I don't mean to flame you or sound all pompous or anything, but if you consider that "outside the box thinking" rather than an obvious application of Limbo's abilities, then I've got some bad news for you.

[(PSN)LeonidasxGGG]

Someone needs to look up the definition of "strategy"...

[jjpdn]

On 11/28/2016 at 4:31 PM, SortaRandom said:

That's like saying that you need to "think outside the box" to play as an invisible Loki.

You press 2 and become immune to damage sources. You press 1 and make hostages / Excaliburs immune to damage sources. Boom. You've mastered Limbo's primary roles.
There is nothing "outside the box" about Limbo gameplay in terms of strategy. He is not difficult to play.

Now survive a level 100 Survival mission without teammates.

I have a feeling that might need some strategy. 

Things a good Limbo can do but an average Limbo rework screamer can't:

1. Kill high level Nullifiers with ease. 

2. Hack without getting hit once

3. Cataclysm 20 enemies and kill them without taking a scratch. 

4. (easiest to figure out) Pickup loot. 

 

Edited December 2, 2016 by jjpdn