what are Snipers good for ??

[motorfirebox]

6 hours ago, Cubewano said:

Which is still forcing into a specific weapon setup for matches, or severely inconveniencing a players for not liking that playstyle, which isn't a mild change. 

I don't see it as all that big a change at all. If you don't bring a fast-firing weapon, you're going to have a hard time with nullies. If you don't bring a precision ranged weapon, you're going to have to deal with scrambuses (scrambi?) wiping out your buffs. If you don't carry a silenced weapon, you're going to set off alarms. There are different types of weapons for a reason; they shouldn't all be equally suited to every situation. If they are, then there's very little point in having different types of weapons in the first place.

And I don't see the added situations I've described as being all that severely inconveniencing anyway. The enemies I've described all give you plenty of warning to get out of the way before they do whatever they're going to do. That sounds a heck of a lot easier to deal with than an energy drain eximus eating all your energy without any warning at all, or a comba nullifying your powers with nothing but a faint "pew pew" sound to let you know they're in the area.

[Cubewano]

2 hours ago, motorfirebox said:

I don't see it as all that big a change at all. If you don't bring a fast-firing weapon, you're going to have a hard time with nullies. If you don't bring a precision ranged weapon, you're going to have to deal with scrambuses (scrambi?) wiping out your buffs. If you don't carry a silenced weapon, you're going to set off alarms. There are different types of weapons for a reason; they shouldn't all be equally suited to every situation. If they are, then there's very little point in having different types of weapons in the first place.

And I don't see the added situations I've described as being all that severely inconveniencing anyway. The enemies I've described all give you plenty of warning to get out of the way before they do whatever they're going to do. That sounds a heck of a lot easier to deal with than an energy drain eximus eating all your energy without any warning at all, or a comba nullifying your powers with nothing but a faint "pew pew" sound to let you know they're in the area.

You know how disliked nullifiers are correct? Specifically because they punish you for using anything outside a specific type of weaponry. They addition of that unit did significantly impact gameplay. As for for the rest of your exmaples, all of them can be handled via any weapon type, I'm not sure where you even got that you needed a precision weapon for Scrambus, they aren't small targets or can only be damaged in one spot, and stealth isn't necessary to finish any mission type or even very impacting. All you are making it seem like now is you just don't play the game all that much.

And get out of the way how? Any missions where killing is actually important requires you to, you know, kill the enemies, you can't just decide to neglect a spare few as they gun you down out of preference. Also what does other units being easier or not have to do with this change being significant? Just because one big thing happened doesn't mean no other big things can happen after. 

[DatDarkOne]

I think what he meant was that it's not much of an issue if you aren't rushing. As much as I like using sniper rifles, I can't honestly justify using one in a typical group. That being said, they do fit very well with certain play styles. Same with most other weapons.

Edited December 15, 2016 by DatDarkOne
clarification

[motorfirebox]

22 hours ago, Cubewano said:

You know how disliked nullifiers are correct? Specifically because they punish you for using anything outside a specific type of weaponry. They addition of that unit did significantly impact gameplay. As for for the rest of your exmaples, all of them can be handled via any weapon type, I'm not sure where you even got that you needed a precision weapon for Scrambus, they aren't small targets or can only be damaged in one spot, and stealth isn't necessary to finish any mission type or even very impacting. All you are making it seem like now is you just don't play the game all that much.

And get out of the way how? Any missions where killing is actually important requires you to, you know, kill the enemies, you can't just decide to neglect a spare few as they gun you down out of preference. Also what does other units being easier or not have to do with this change being significant? Just because one big thing happened doesn't mean no other big things can happen after. 

Nullifiers are disliked because they are extremely powerful, directly attack the central feature of warframes, and are difficult to deal with effectively outside a limited set of weapons. Only one of those issues applies to the enemies I've suggested. And not that it matters, but I have well over a thousand hours in the game. Don't be the kind of jerk who starts impugning other player's skill or experience just because you disagree with the points they're trying to make.

Scrambus helmets can be shot off in order to turn off their nullifying aura. Precision weapons make it much easier to do that from outside the range of that aura. And no, stealth isn't necessary to finish any mission type, but it makes some missions and situations within missions much easier to deal with. Which is exactly what I'm suggesting for sniper rifles.

As far as getting out of the way... it seems kind of self-explanatory? When you see a sniper's laser sight, you don't just stand there and let them shoot you. You move. When you hear Vay Hek's floaty bomb guys, you move. Personally, I move around quite a bit in this game for the exclusive purpose of avoiding and mitigating damage.

[kaliazane]

They are good for fun.

I just wish they penetrated nullie bubbles.

[GrimAtrament]

snipers dont and never have fit with warframes theme the games to fast pace to sit around shooting anyone standing still is asking for death.

it does not matter how high there damage is when you have to take seconds or minutes to line up a shot.

the best way to fix this is make them more like the latron.

100% accuracy from hip fire.

and a scope that does not zoom in so much rooms are rarely big enough to need that amount of zoom.

currently they are only really good for sorties or wall decorations.

 

 

[DatDarkOne]

A funny thing about sniper only sorties. My clan mates did one today. Each of them realized something they hadn't before. That they liked the damage they were doing. Even the one who brought an unranked Vectis.

Yes this was a Corpus sortie with nullifiers. That was my job to deal with by switching to Razorwing. Wasn't really needed as much as I had thought. We all used them to their strengths and were very successful.

Short version: They had underestimated sniper rifles. Now they each have a new weapon to enjoy. :D

[Lanadra]

In my opinion, nothing really.

Sure, some people may find a way to make this weapon category work for them, but I've found that I sure can't, it always feels so very ineffective to be using sniper rifles in this game.

[robbybe01234]

On 12/9/2016 at 7:36 PM, HalfDarkShadow said:

Nah, there are plenty of players I run into a daily basis that use Snipers.

And personally, with my 6 forma, [red] crit Rubico build (dat 15x Critical Damage multiplier though~), I never once had any real issue with it, but I suppose that's because I try to aim and not a fan of spray-and-pray automatic rifles. But that's just me.

---

Also a handful of them have a much faster fire-rate than any bow, and you actually have a magazine (since not every sniper is a Vectis/Vectis Prime), but in all it seems more that you and some others are just trying to fit it into how you play and not understanding, just like bows, have a different purpose.
So instead of blaming the class that it's somehow inherently broken (because again, there are plenty of players who are very successful in using them), first really sit and think if it's yourself is the issue.

• Are you aiming correctly?
• Are you going for headshots or body shots?
• Are you taking advantage of Punch Through mods (they are there for a reason) and any other utility to help you perform better?

Many people seem to dismiss them all together before even considering some of these factors. Of course there is always room for improvements for the class, but they are far, and I mean far from being unusable. It takes practice and using one for barely hour wont cut it. Not assuming that's the OP but making a general statement for those kind of mindsets.

I hear you.  Ok, all factors considered.  Still, what are you even talking about?  We don't seem to be playing the same horde based shooter with encounters and maps designed around fast movement and sweep based weapons.

[Cubewano]

19 hours ago, motorfirebox said:

Nullifiers are disliked because they are extremely powerful, directly attack the central feature of warframes, and are difficult to deal with effectively outside a limited set of weapons. Only one of those issues applies to the enemies I've suggested. And not that it matters, but I have well over a thousand hours in the game. Don't be the kind of jerk who starts impugning other player's skill or experience just because you disagree with the points they're trying to make.

Scrambus helmets can be shot off in order to turn off their nullifying aura. Precision weapons make it much easier to do that from outside the range of that aura. And no, stealth isn't necessary to finish any mission type, but it makes some missions and situations within missions much easier to deal with. Which is exactly what I'm suggesting for sniper rifles.

As far as getting out of the way... it seems kind of self-explanatory? When you see a sniper's laser sight, you don't just stand there and let them shoot you. You move. When you hear Vay Hek's floaty bomb guys, you move. Personally, I move around quite a bit in this game for the exclusive purpose of avoiding and mitigating damage.

Their power is directly related to how difficult they are to handle outside one specific weapon type, the more ways to dispatch the bubble (it's greatest strength) the less of an opponent the nullifiers are. That said though, the central issue with them has always been how limiting their bubbles have been towards weapon choice, and that is the same issue your change would have, if not the rest. I could also care less for your hours in the game, playtime to does not equate to understanding, it merely offers the opportunity for it. I also was not questioning your experience simply because you disagreed with me, I questioned it because you showed a lack of understanding for the game, which is entirely appropriate. 

As for Scrambus, you don't need to remove their helmets to kill them, you can just as easily burst them down with a shotgun to the chest or an arrow to the knee, the benefits of having an accurate weapon are so incredibly mild it doesn't really make using a specific weapon type anything of value. I would also disagree on your stealth note, unless you are using a frame with an invis mechanic all stealth is going to do for you in any standard mission is slow you down, and even in the case of stealth frames you aren't really speeding up the process much either, enemies are incredibly easy to gun down in most non-endless mission types, or even ignore, unless you don't know how to move in this game, stealth is of little value in most situations. 

Oh, I assumed you were talking about options to not deal with the unit, since that was the topic, not being able to just put them off briefly. So the unit still has to be dealt with then because they aren't actually going away, which means snipers would still be needed to eventually deal with them, so what was your point here? 

[motorfirebox]

The issue with nullifiers is more that just weapon choice. Or rather, it has to do with the consequences of not bringing the right weapon. If you don't bring the right weapon to deal with nullies, you frequently lose access to what is probably the most useful feature of your warframe—your powers. If not for that, nullifiers wouldn't be more than a mild annoyance. That isn't an issue with the enemies I suggested.

I've stated repeatedly why precision ranged weapons are advantageous for dealing with scrambuses. It's because you can negate their nullifying aura without being affected by it. If you're not worried about the nullifying aura, then you shouldn't be all that concerned with nullifiers, either—it's a pretty simple matter to run into the bubble and shoot them in the face with a shotgun.

And *sigh* again, you don't need a sniper rifle to deal with these units, any more than you need a precision ranged weapon to deal with scrambuses. It just makes it easier.

[Warlord1400]

My dream update for snipers

• More critical chance/damage
• a special headshot bonus,
• and innate Punch Through
• NULLIFIER PUNCH THROUGH!!!!!!

Edited December 17, 2016 by Warlord1400

[HalfDarkShadow]

On 12/15/2016 at 9:17 PM, robbybe01234 said:

I hear you.  Ok, all factors considered.  Still, what are you even talking about?  We don't seem to be playing the same horde based shooter with encounters and maps designed around fast movement and sweep based weapons.

We are talking about the same game, don't worry haha. Again personally, I see plenty of players using bows and snipers just fine.

And to clarify, not all weapons need to work in all situations. If you're running a high level Excavation or something, you can bring a Sniper sure, but you might be better off just bringing something to take care of tons of enemies.

We have Sabotage, Spy, Hijack, Exterminate, Hive, Crossfire, Deception, so on and so forth where these class of weapons are the most applicable. Do keep in mind, not everything is "horde based", as you put it. And that's okay.

So to bring it back full circle, yes we are talking about the same game. You just forgot about all the game-modes aforementioned.
Unless you "conveniently" forgot to mention it in the reply to make some kind of straw-man argument, but I don't believe that since there is a very valid criticism being made here regarding what you said.
This is a game where much of the content has never-ending spawns of enemies, one after the other, but there are just as many other game modes and other content where there is either a hard-cap limit, or not the main objective of killing them.

---

Snipers (as well as bows) aren't like the Soma or Kohm or Akstiletto, and they shouldn't be evaluated and viewed as such. They have their place in the game, and that's cool with me lol.

Spoiler

Of course there can always be room for improvement i.e. longer combo multiplier duration, more punch-through, etc, etc, etc. But that's not what we're talking about in this thread; it's specifically about the uses of Snipers (hence the title "what are snipers good for??" and just personal thoughts on the class of single-fire weapons.

 

Edited December 17, 2016 by HalfDarkShadow

[xV3NOMx]

... Sniper rifles are fun to use when killing "Stalker" or "Shadow Stalker" while the player under attack is the diversion.

[ Basically, they are used for fun when players are bored and decide to play the role of a sniper on "Assassination" missions.]

 

Next time you do an "Assassination" mission try using "Banshee, Sonar" ability with a Sniper Rifle. 

[fatpig84]

They need to punch through Nullifers and they are good, that's it.

[robbybe01234]

On 12/16/2016 at 10:18 PM, HalfDarkShadow said:

We are talking about the same game, don't worry haha. Again personally, I see plenty of players using bows and snipers just fine.

And to clarify, not all weapons need to work in all situations. If you're running a high level Excavation or something, you can bring a Sniper sure, but you might be better off just bringing something to take care of tons of enemies.

We have Sabotage, Spy, Hijack, Exterminate, Hive, Crossfire, Deception, so on and so forth where these class of weapons are the most applicable. Do keep in mind, not everything is "horde based", as you put it. And that's okay.

So to bring it back full circle, yes we are talking about the same game. You just forgot about all the game-modes aforementioned.
Unless you "conveniently" forgot to mention it in the reply to make some kind of straw-man argument, but I don't believe that since there is a very valid criticism being made here regarding what you said.
This is a game where much of the content has never-ending spawns of enemies, one after the other, but there are just as many other game modes and other content where there is either a hard-cap limit, or not the main objective of killing them.

---

Snipers (as well as bows) aren't like the Soma or Kohm or Akstiletto, and they shouldn't be evaluated and viewed as such. They have their place in the game, and that's cool with me lol.

  Reveal hidden contents

Of course there can always be room for improvement i.e. longer combo multiplier duration, more punch-through, etc, etc, etc. But that's not what we're talking about in this thread; it's specifically about the uses of Snipers (hence the title "what are snipers good for??" and just personal thoughts on the class of single-fire weapons.

 

I started writing a breakdown here about how sniper rifles still don't fit in this game for very specific reasons going into gameflow and breaking down encounters in each mission type you listed, but look play how you want.  I know what I know and I'm confident it is correct. Deconstructing how they don't work in Warframe here is not worth my time.  You do you, I'll do me. 

Edited December 18, 2016 by robbybe01234

[Noble_One]

On 12/9/2016 at 4:56 PM, Naftal said:

Tigris prime can do it better but it has limited range while snipers work the same way on any range.

Better question these days is what use do bows have? Lanka is better than any bow there is.

Bows even got a stealth nerf on their hipfire accuracy with the sniper "buff".

bows have punch through and shoot WAY faster than any sniper plus with very little reload time. really its like people said unless you get a large open map then they are really pointless. and yes the tigress lacks range but at the same time a person can get in close enough faster than it takes a sniper to line up the shot. 

[GrinningMary]

What are Sniper rifles good for? That's an easy one.

-Long-term Defense/Survival/Armored Sortie missions, and high level Spies. Snipers, like some Warframe abilities and all melee weapons have a combo system that happens to lack a cap, giving them--literally--infinitely scaling damage, with the ability to shift scope levels for more potent precision shots against really durable enemies. Most Snipers in Warframe tend to shoot and reload quickly, and if you're half-decent at sniping, you should be lining up headshots as fast as you can flick, and adding that, with multishot--and punch through, possibly--you'll be amping up your combos really, really, really fast.

-Subjective satisfaction. I don't know about you, but I really like landing really, really high damage hits from across the map.

-Frame synergies. Ever play Equinox, and wanting to turn on Maim, get your stored damage high enough to kill all the trash on the map, and activate it, as fast as possible? Good. Use a Sniper rifle. Hit 4, Quick-scope a heavy with punchthrough, get 2-3 kills, with that one shot. Hit 4. Map cleared. Repeat. Playing Support Trin and wanting to EV for allies without sacrificing the rest of your kit? Just hit something with 2, and quick-scope. Done. Playing Volt and want to get really good returns on your shield without the damage fall-off of shotguns, or the travel time of launchers? Just bring a sniper rifle with punchthrough, and nail enemies as they walk through a choke. Fighting a Parasitic Eximus as a caster frame? See a Scrambus? Don't wanna lose your self-buffs, or whatever it is keeping you alive? Sniper rifle. Ever used Mesa with a power strength build activating a Ballistic Battery on a fully charged Lanka red crit? You should. Ever wanna fly around as Zephyr just under the skybox, but end up feeling useless? Bring a sniper rifle--or a grenade launcher.. preferably both. Ever wanting to play Nekros, and cherry pick your shadows without a fuss, but don't want to irritate your teammates by trying to claim kills? Sniper rifle. Playing Nyx and using Chaos, but don't want to get close enough to enemies that they stop shooting each other and just blow you up? Sniper rifle. Playing Frost/Ivara/Equinox and have a frozen/sleeping enemy, or group of enemies you're not wanting to have turn around and shoot you in the face when you start chipping away at their health? Sniper rifle. Playing Limbo, and want to be cheesy with cataclysm and Riftwalk? Sniper Rifles... also a big room.

-Parkour-fanatic. I play Banshee. A lot. I love my squishy frames, I universally stopped using survivability mods outside of the occasional Quick Thinking and a single health mod on Valkyr/Inaros just for their gimmicks. I'm used to being one shotted by literally everything. I love playing that way. It's tense, and makes me abuse the parkour system to avoid getting shot--or make it so that if I do get shot, I'm in an invulnerability frame--and you know what's a really good weapon if you're always on the move, as a Resonance Banshee, seventy meters up a wall, latched to the top of it for precisely one second before you bullet jump into a different room? A sniper Rifle. Bows are stellar at mid-range, but an absolute nightmare to shoot with when wall-latching and shooting diagonally at enemies. Assault rifles spread too much, and require too much being on one spot--in other words, dead--and shotguns are basically feather dusters at range. Sniper rifles? Gonna one shot stuff whether it's in your face, or really far away at an awkward angle, because you can hip fire, have multiple levels of zoom, and scoping is quite fast. You can also turn off the weird zoom UI in the options menu.

-Rad-safe. Hey. How about those Radiation procs. You know, the ones that makes you liable to one shot your friends. With everything. Because the ratio of player lethality to survivability is heavily skewed? Well, Sniper Rifles are just dandy, being generally instant hit-scan, or super fast, single, precise projectiles. Bows are good at it too. But that's fine. Just because one weapon class is good at a thing, doesn't mean it has to be the only thing good at it.

-Diversity. Most players get bored doing the exact same thing every day, using the same weapons, the same frames. There's a reason Warframe is still thriving, and part of it is that it's always getting new guns, new content, mechanic rehauls, new frames. It keeps things fresh. The tense playstyle of Warframe's Melee, where you're trying to constantly stay in combat to keep your damage combos up, mixed with the caster-esque focus on positioning, and the need to aim and land headshots, leads to a uniquely tense playstyle where you're incentivised to land fast and continuous headshots.

-Bosses. Also "Bosses". A lot of bosses are entirely invulnerable, outside of one glowing weak point that only shows itself periodically, and the rest are just really tanky. You know what's really good in both situations? A sniper rifle. As for "Bosses", you know what's really good against Shadow Stalker, and his desire to progressively adapt to your damage--and also Sentients--? A sniper rifle that just kills him in one shot. To the head. Before any of his shenanigans adaption gets to happen.

 Well, that was easy. It was so easy, that I'm now going to cover what's bad about Sniper rifles without being prompted because I talk too much.

 

-Damage. Sniper rifles can hit like a truck. You can do ridiculous stuff with them, and once you get a combo going, you can scale up that damage, very quickly, past what any other weapon in the game is capable of... What? An unforma'd dread can red crit for 500k? Oh. Well, then. I mean, it's still true. But like... their starting damage could be higher, in general. Especially since, as is, all but a few sniper rifles are entirely outclassed by assault rifles and bows, of all things--also other sniper rifles...

-Speaking of other sniper rifles. Ignoring variants of the same sniper rifle, we have: Lanka, Vectis, Vulkar, and Rubico. Snipetron if you want to include the half-way designed, inferior Lanka. That is it. And most of them are... eh. It's mostly just the Lanka, Vectis Prime, and Rubico that see any use. Which is quite abysmal. Least sniper rifles have more love than Sparring weapons--speaking of, please give sparring weapons more love, DE, I want to round house kick a level 170 Corrupted Heavy Gunner so hard its neck snaps--but that's not saying much.

-Specialized. It's honestly a really minor weakness. Yeah, assault rifles are good in all situations, and perform well. That's... kind of their thing. Their thing is that perform well in all situations. Not as good as a specialized weapon, but that's why you have generalized and specialized weapons. When I see that I'm going to be doing a mission, in an enclosed space, filled with tight, winding corridors, and small LoS, with a lot of flanks, and the like. I grab a shotgun. Because... yeah, why wouldn't I? If I do a defense mission against Infested, I'm probably going to find something to stand on, and grab a grenade launcher. If I'm feeling lazy, or don't know what to expect, just run with an assault rifle. Why not? Sniper rifles excel in medium-long range. Bows excel in close-medium range. There's a bit of overlap where you could be using either or. Sniper rifles are best used in maps that have long, narrow hallways--generally more "Corpus" than "Grineer" ship tilesets--or wide open areas, or a large degree of verticality, or a focus on stealth. They're fine in other situations--in much the same way a shotgun is 'fine' when shooting at something further than fifteen feet away--though, honestly, if you're in other situations, you're probably better off using a secondary unless you see a giant clustering of enemies, or a heavy, or get invaded by shadow stalker. It's really not that big of an issue, but the preferred situation for a sniper rifle, is less common than that of a shotgun, but it's still far from rare. Which is the situation in which Non-Carrier Prime Sentinels can tank damage.

-Aim. If you need to take several seconds to line up a headshot, or if you think Sniper rifles have no place in a fast paced game... then, I'm sorry to say it's not me--me being the sniper rifles--it's you. You should be able to flick quickscope fast enough that no one notices you're using a scope. You should already know where every shot is going to go, and your scope is just a formality you get into for extra damage against heavier enemies. If you need to slowly, laboriously track each shot, you shouldn't be using a sniper rifle. You should be using a bow. Or a rocket launcher. Or a machine gun. It's admittedly, a disproportionately high skill requirement to use the weapon passably, in comparison to the payoff. But if you're not even passable, you probably should take a step back on the topic of sniper rifle speed. Snipers aren't slow, they're as fast as your reflexes.

-Sniper rifle's aren't cats. S'true. 0/10 on cute and fluffy scale. Would not boop tummy... I will still insist on letting my Lanka sleep on my bed though.

-Combo inconsistancy. Every Sniper rifle, inexplicably has a completely different timer for its combo reset, that generally has very little to do with how often it's able to fire, making it incredibly difficult, or easy to get combos, depending on which sniper rifle you're using.

Edited December 18, 2016 by GrinningMary

[Noble_One]

9 minutes ago, GrinningMary said:

What are Sniper rifles good for? That's an easy one.

-Long-term Defense/Survival/Armored Sortie missions, and high level Spies. Snipers, like some Warframe abilities and all melee weapons have a combo system that happens to lack a cap, giving them--literally--infinitely scaling damage, with the ability to shift scope levels for more potent precision shots against really durable enemies. Most Snipers in Warframe tend to shoot and reload quickly, and if you're half-decent at sniping, you should be lining up headshots as fast as you can flick, and adding that, with multishot--and punch through, possibly--you'll be amping up your combos really, really, really fast.

-Subjective satisfaction. I don't know about you, but I really like landing really, really high damage hits from across the map.

-Frame synergies. Ever play Equinox, and wanting to turn on Maim, get your stored damage high enough to kill all the trash on the map, and activate it, as fast as possible? Good. Use a Sniper rifle. Hit 4, Quick-scope a heavy with punchthrough, get 2-3 kills, with that one shot. Hit 4. Map cleared. Repeat. Playing Support Trin and wanting to EV for allies without sacrificing the rest of your kit? Just hit something with 2, and quick-scope. Done. Playing Volt and want to get really good returns on your shield without the damage fall-off of shotguns, or the travel time of launchers? Just bring a sniper rifle with punchthrough, and nail enemies as they walk through a choke. Fighting a Parasitic Eximus as a caster frame? See a Scrambus? Don't wanna lose your self-buffs, or whatever it is keeping you alive? Sniper rifle. Ever used Mesa with a power strength build activating a Ballistic Battery on a fully charged Lanka red crit? You should. Ever wanna fly around as Zephyr just under the skybox, but end up feeling useless? Bring a sniper rifle--or a grenade launcher.. preferably both. Ever wanting to play Nekros, and cherry pick your shadows without a fuss, but don't want to irritate your teammates by trying to claim kills? Sniper rifle. Playing Nyx and using Chaos, but don't want to get close enough to enemies that they stop shooting each other and just blow you up? Sniper rifle. Playing Frost/Ivara/Equinox and have a frozen/sleeping enemy, or group of enemies you're not wanting to have turn around and shoot you in the face when you start chipping away at their health? Sniper rifle. Playing Limbo, and want to be cheesy with cataclysm and Riftwalk? Sniper Rifles... also a big room.

-Parkour-fanatic. I play Banshee. A lot. I love my squishy frames, I universally stopped using survivability mods outside of the occasional Quick Thinking and a single health mod on Valkyr/Inaros just for their gimmicks. I'm used to being one shotted by literally everything. I love playing that way. It's tense, and makes me abuse the parkour system to avoid getting shot--or make it so that if I do get shot, I'm in an invulnerability frame--and you know what's a really good weapon if you're always on the move, as a Resonance Banshee, seventy meters up a wall, latched to the top of it for precisely one second before you bullet jump into a different room? A sniper Rifle. Bows are stellar at mid-range, but an absolute nightmare to shoot with when wall-latching and shooting diagonally at enemies. Assault rifles spread too much, and require too much being on one spot--in other words, dead--and shotguns are basically feather dusters at range. Sniper rifles? Gonna one shot stuff whether it's in your face, or really far away at an awkward angle, because you can hip fire, have multiple levels of zoom, and scoping is quite fast. You can also turn off the weird zoom UI in the options menu.

-Rad-safe. Hey. How about those Radiation procs. You know, the ones that makes you liable to one shot your friends. With everything. Because the ratio of player lethality to survivability is heavily skewed? Well, Sniper Rifles are just dandy, being generally instant hit-scan, or super fast, single, precise projectiles. Bows are good at it too. But that's fine. Just because one weapon class is good at a thing, doesn't mean it has to be the only thing good at it.

-Diversity. Most players get bored doing the exact same thing every day, using the same weapons, the same frames. There's a reason Warframe is still thriving, and part of it is that it's always getting new guns, new content, mechanic rehauls, new frames. It keeps things fresh. The tense playstyle of Warframe's Melee, where you're trying to constantly stay in combat to keep your damage combos up, mixed with the caster-esque focus on positioning, and the need to aim and land headshots, leads to a uniquely tense playstyle where you're incentivised to land fast and continuous headshots.

-Bosses. Also "Bosses". A lot of bosses are entirely invulnerable, outside of one glowing weak point that only shows itself periodically, and the rest are just really tanky. You know what's really good in both situations? A sniper rifle. As for "Bosses", you know what's really good against Shadow Stalker, and his desire to progressively adapt to your damage--and also Sentients--? A sniper rifle that just kills him in one shot. To the head. Before any of his shenanigans adaption gets to happen.

 Well, that was easy. It was so easy, that I'm now going to cover what's bad about Sniper rifles without being prompted because I talk too much.

 

-Damage. Sniper rifles can hit like a truck. You can do ridiculous stuff with them, and once you get a combo going, you can scale up that damage, very quickly, past what any other weapon in the game is capable of... What? An unforma'd dread can red crit for 500k? Oh. Well, then. I mean, it's still true. But like... their starting damage could be higher, in general. Especially since, as is, all but a few sniper rifles are entirely outclassed by assault rifles and bows, of all things--also other sniper rifles...

-Speaking of other sniper rifles. Ignoring variants of the same sniper rifle, we have: Lanka, Vectis, Vulkar, and Rubico. Snipetron if you want to include the half-way designed, inferior Lanka. That is it. And most of them are... eh. It's mostly just the Lanka, Vectis Prime, and Rubico that see any use. Which is quite abysmal. Least sniper rifles have more love than Sparring weapons--speaking of, please give sparring weapons more love, DE, I want to round house kick a level 170 Corrupted Heavy Gunner so hard its neck snaps--but that's not saying much.

-Specialized. It's honestly a really minor weakness. Yeah, assault rifles are good in all situations, and perform well. That's... kind of their thing. Their thing is that perform well in all situations. Not as good as a specialized weapon, but that's why you have generalized and specialized weapons. When I see that I'm going to be doing a mission, in an enclosed space, filled with tight, winding corridors, and small LoS, with a lot of flanks, and the like. I grab a shotgun. Because... yeah, why wouldn't I? If I do a defense mission against Infested, I'm probably going to find something to stand on, and grab a grenade launcher. If I'm feeling lazy, or don't know what to expect, just run with an assault rifle. Why not? Sniper rifles excel in medium-long range. Bows excel in close-medium range. There's a bit of overlap where you could be using either or. Sniper rifles are best used in maps that have long, narrow hallways--generally more "Corpus" than "Grineer" ship tilesets--or wide open areas, or a large degree of verticality, or a focus on stealth. They're fine in other situations--in much the same way a shotgun is 'fine' when shooting at something further than fifteen feet away--though, honestly, if you're in other situations, you're probably better off using a secondary unless you see a giant clustering of enemies, or a heavy, or get invaded by shadow stalker. It's really not that big of an issue, but the preferred situation for a sniper rifle, is less common than that of a shotgun, but it's still far from rare. Which is the situation in which Non-Carrier Prime Sentinels can tank damage.

-Aim. If you need to take several seconds to line up a headshot, or if you think Sniper rifles have no place in a fast paced game... then, I'm sorry to say it's not me--me being the sniper rifles--it's you. You should be able to flick quickscope fast enough that no one notices you're using a scope. You should already know where every shot is going to go, and your scope is just a formality you get into for extra damage against heavier enemies. If you need to slowly, laboriously track each shot, you shouldn't be using a sniper rifle. You should be using a bow. Or a rocket launcher. Or a machine gun. It's admittedly, a disproportionately high skill requirement to use the weapon passably, in comparison to the payoff. But if you're not even passable, you probably should take a step back on the topic of sniper rifle speed. Snipers aren't slow, they're as fast as your reflexes.

-Sniper rifle's aren't cats. S'true. 0/10 on cute and fluffy scale. Would not boop tummy... I will still insist on letting my Lanka sleep on my bed though.

-Combo inconsistancy. Every Sniper rifle, inexplicably has a completely different timer for its combo reset, that generally has very little to do with how often it's able to fire, making it incredibly difficult, or easy to get combos, depending on which sniper rifle you're using.

ill go through as numbers for each point.

1. any weapon can do the same and much faster.

2. personal opinion, i wont touch this one.

3. same as number 1.

4. again same as 1.

5. ...1.

6. fast continuous headshots and snipers dont mix in the same sentence with snipers as ANY rifle will out beat it in amount of headshots landed.

7. again 1. lol

8. yes all weapons start out kinda weak to some snipers but by the end all weapons can be made to hit like a truck and much faster than a sniper.

9. ....um... skip...

10. aim very little problem for most people but missing with a sniper is more costly than missing with any other gun as the time between shots is were it hurts. it goes back to the damage aswell, why would one take a gun that has longer time to shoot over a gun that has way less time to shoot and does practically the same amount of damage and at times distance?

11. very and eh... not a cat person... except for valk.... only cat allowed on my ship...

12. very true.

 

this is why people question why the gun is in the game. it serves no hard purpose except for luls really. tbh it would be better if DE just gave maps like the size of arkwings so they would have one. 

[GrinningMary]

Sorry, you'll need to be more specific. Which guns are how much faster, than which sniper rifles, at what? Saying "Everything's better in every way", then just kinda... blanket numbering that over everything doesn't actually give me anything to work with, here. Outside of giving me suspicions that you might have some very inappropriate Valkyr Prime pin-ups in your Orbiter.

 

Is a Dead faster than a Vectis Prime? Projectile, versus hit-scan? Are you saying the Soma Prime is better than an silenced Vectis Prime in Sortie level Spy missions? Or are you only wanting to compare, say, the Lanka, because it has a charge time. In which case, are you comparing it to weapons with a slow charge time, like the Opticor? Or ones with a fast one like a Rakta Cernos? Are you saying the Vulkar is worse than the Twin Gremlin? Why are you comparing a flamethrower to a sniper rifle?! Why am I pretending like I'm taking your claim of 'everything' literally and seriously? Who knows. It's probably because like I mentioned prior, you're giving me nothing to work with, like a guy past his fifties in the... actually never mind.

 Like I covered in my post. A weapon class being good at something doesn't mean it has to be better than literally everything else by a country mile and nothing else can compare, and my dad can beat up your dad! It just has to be good at something. A sniper rifle being able to one shot heavies, is no longer not a factor simply because Tigris Prime exists. Or because if you throw enough event mods and Forma on an MK-1 braton, it can kill things. The Lanka can infinitely scale its damage, as long as there's more enemies to shoot. Which would matter more if it wasn't already the highest damaging weapon in the game, at base--mostly because of how silly its crit chance is...--but again, exactly what are you comparing?

 Does my Secura Penta being able to be air bursted and wipe group of mobs just kinda mean that the Soma Prime is invalidated? I think there's a difference between something legitimately being useless--like dual daggers!--and not serving a purpose, and being good at something, but having competition for the same role.

 If we're going to get super technical and meta: Every weapon is equally useless because if you get an entire party full of people with CP, and a bunch of CC, and also all the armor removal, you can kill level 200000 Corrupted Heavy Gunners with an unranked, unmodded Lato you got from a cereal box.

 If we're just gonna go off of the idea of people just picking up guns they like, and using them, in pubs. Then Sniper Rifles are fine, but could use a bit of a buff in places. Mostly sniper rifles that aren't the Lanka. Because the Lanka exists, and it has five meters of innate punch through, and can red crit with nothing but a point strike.

 

Edit:

 

6. fast continuous headshots and snipers dont mix in the same sentence with snipers as ANY rifle will out beat it in amount of headshots landed.

There's kind of a massive difference between landing thirty headshots into a bombard with a Soma Prime, and landing thirty headshots on different enemies with a Sniper rifle. It's not about quantity, it's about aiming speed. If you're not counting your time to kill in literally a fraction of a second, you're a bad sniper.

 Ya ever play Overwatch? You see what happens when a competitive TF2/CS:GO/S4:League/Guns/Insert any fast competitive shooter here, plays it? There's a world of difference between the kill speed of just an average player picking up a Sniper and having fun popping heads, and someone who can land headshots on a flick.

 In any case, the point is that, if your argument is that sniper rifles are really slow, it's generally more of the issue that the person with the mouse is slow. Which is... the vast majority of most players, in most games. Because flicking and quick-scoping is hard, and takes practice, and it's infinitely easier to just grab a Tonkor, or a Supra, or something. Yes. Weapons that specialize in mowing down entire crowds will mow down entire crowds faster than a sniper rifle--or a Tigris, normal rifle, pistol, gammacor, most melee weapons... etc.--But, you don't need to pointlessly exaggerate how slow sniper rifles are. They're fine, in terms of speed.

 I'm starting to think you didn't read my post, and that makes me a sad Mary. I'm still a Grinning Mary, but now I'm a Grinning Sad Mary. Look at what you did. You made me Happysad.

Edited December 18, 2016 by GrinningMary

[Zephyr]

Until they get intrinsic punch through, they're kinda bad.

[GrinningMary]

2 hours ago, Alpha_Zephyr said:

Until they get intrinsic punch through, they're kinda bad.

You should try the Lanka, it comes with five meters of it. Snipetron comes with three.

[Noble_One]

11 hours ago, GrinningMary said:

Sorry, you'll need to be more specific. Which guns are how much faster, than which sniper rifles, at what? Saying "Everything's better in every way", then just kinda... blanket numbering that over everything doesn't actually give me anything to work with, here. Outside of giving me suspicions that you might have some very inappropriate Valkyr Prime pin-ups in your Orbiter.

 

Is a Dead faster than a Vectis Prime? Projectile, versus hit-scan? Are you saying the Soma Prime is better than an silenced Vectis Prime in Sortie level Spy missions? Or are you only wanting to compare, say, the Lanka, because it has a charge time. In which case, are you comparing it to weapons with a slow charge time, like the Opticor? Or ones with a fast one like a Rakta Cernos? Are you saying the Vulkar is worse than the Twin Gremlin? Why are you comparing a flamethrower to a sniper rifle?! Why am I pretending like I'm taking your claim of 'everything' literally and seriously? Who knows. It's probably because like I mentioned prior, you're giving me nothing to work with, like a guy past his fifties in the... actually never mind.

 Like I covered in my post. A weapon class being good at something doesn't mean it has to be better than literally everything else by a country mile and nothing else can compare, and my dad can beat up your dad! It just has to be good at something. A sniper rifle being able to one shot heavies, is no longer not a factor simply because Tigris Prime exists. Or because if you throw enough event mods and Forma on an MK-1 braton, it can kill things. The Lanka can infinitely scale its damage, as long as there's more enemies to shoot. Which would matter more if it wasn't already the highest damaging weapon in the game, at base--mostly because of how silly its crit chance is...--but again, exactly what are you comparing?

 Does my Secura Penta being able to be air bursted and wipe group of mobs just kinda mean that the Soma Prime is invalidated? I think there's a difference between something legitimately being useless--like dual daggers!--and not serving a purpose, and being good at something, but having competition for the same role.

 If we're going to get super technical and meta: Every weapon is equally useless because if you get an entire party full of people with CP, and a bunch of CC, and also all the armor removal, you can kill level 200000 Corrupted Heavy Gunners with an unranked, unmodded Lato you got from a cereal box.

 If we're just gonna go off of the idea of people just picking up guns they like, and using them, in pubs. Then Sniper Rifles are fine, but could use a bit of a buff in places. Mostly sniper rifles that aren't the Lanka. Because the Lanka exists, and it has five meters of innate punch through, and can red crit with nothing but a point strike.

thats excatly my point in any fashion most (if not all) guns can be made to be equal or 10x stronger than a sniper and are better in all situations. you can put punch through on any gun. you can put a silencer on any gun. and as soon as you bring powers and what not into this yes snipers are seen as useless as to some one with a marelok can out shoot it. until they either give a buff to them or map more maps suitable for them then like i said youre only using it because you like the gun. is that wrong? by no means use what you like. but you cant just they are in a good spot with others weapons because thats just untrue.

hell its the only reason that type of gun is seen a lot more over others. 

[GrinningMary]

What? Do you know how ridiculous that point is? Any gun can be "made" to be stronger? Your entire argument hinges on this idea that someone can just mod out anything and it'll be better than a Sniper, but that logic only works if you're entirely unable to put mods on sniper rifles, and improve them as well. Which you can. Like, I'm really thinking you're not reading my posts at all.

 Also, if you're wasting mod slots for suppression and punchthrough, and effectively are losing out on two damage mods to try catching up to the base aspects of a different weapon, that's not inherit superiority you're looking at.

 Edit: Wait, first it was all, now it's most? And where are you getting these numbers from?

Edited December 18, 2016 by GrinningMary

[DatDarkOne]

I just have to laugh at how this topic has continued. Let's just say they were included for the same reasons other weapons were. Options. There are players that prefer shotguns and those that don't. That is basically the same for sniper rifles. I personally prefer weapons with high accuracy and don't care for shotguns. This is a preference and nothing more. Almost all weapons can be made endgame viable with enough care. Snipers are no different.

Remember, what is fun for you might be the opposite for someone else.