DE's War against Veteran Players and Collateral Damage

[ChuckMaverick]

1 minute ago, Hemmo67 said:

seems like it is the problem

lazy children that have been spoonfed their entire life... -_-

As I said, completely missing the point.

The problem is that DE are seen to be moving from a company that "does free-to-play right", to just another F2P developer chasing a quick buck and ignoring the long-term health of the game.

Edited December 25, 2016 by ChuckMaverick

[arch111]

I am casual. I play for fun.

I allso understand that a game,  no matter how fun or cool we think it is, allso is a business  that must make money for the owners.

I have come to terms with the fact I will probably never own certain things in Warframe.  And I am fine with that.

Thing is though that I like the idea of community goals. Remember the synthesis goals?  The kurias, the tennobet? Now we have the new Room.

However, we have only two ways to look at a Clan build that take a ton of mats. We either those mats are easier to get, or we know beforehand that it is going to take alot of time to collect and build.

Either option solves this issue.

What is a fail, is if too many stop playing for new content because they feel the fun has gone out of the game. When that happens something needs to be corrected.

[5HV3N]

after reading official response...

Can we please have an official statistic showing in how many clans that had at least one online member within let's say a month had at least 75% of population logged in as some sort of validation of this line of reasoning?

I honestly doubt that after excluding handful of overachieving clans that there are no such clans in above ghost tier, none at all that could count on 100% participation.

T'was damage control done horribly wrong.

 

I won't comment on required resources, that's just bonkers. in 6 months 7k oxium just magically accumulated in my inventory. Who knows, mby those samples will accumulate in similar manner by end of 2018.
I'm not jumping on grinding treadmill, not for this, not with this forsaken relics system that causes me to avoid nodes rewarding those.

Lesson here is: akkad is supposed to be the grinding hellhole an is expectd to remain as such for rather long time.

Edited December 25, 2016 by 5HV3N

[SeaUrchins]

Why such a weak weapon should have such high research costs in the first place?

[StealthyCARNAGE]

2 minutes ago, 5HV3N said:

in 6 months 7k oxium just magically accumulated in my inventory. Who knows, mby those samples will accumulate in similar manner.

Of course they will. That is, in about a decade or so.

[Vance.Stubbs]

33 minutes ago, Hemmo67 said:

seems like it is the problem

lazy children that have been spoonfed their entire life... -_-

Oh boy, the edgy talk here! 

Not being a no-life neckbeard who can afford/enjoys grinding the same mission on the same tileset with the same build for minimum 4 hours a day = lazy child. Alrighty then.

[Nyaa314]

1 hour ago, Evanescent said:

polymer bundles

plz no

I had to actually farm these ~4 months into the game because I like my pizza.

[jjadned]

1 hour ago, Evanescent said:

You know, the thing is DE insists it's a resource sink.

Mutagen Samples didn't need a resource sink, detonite samples and fieldron samples did because we have them in the millions.

We needed sinks for nanospores, ferrite, polymer bundles, plastids....instead we get one for neurodes and mutagen samples.

I guess DE doesn't want casual players anymore. Can we see some some numbers as to how many people actually 'have them in their inventories already'?

I agree with your first point and part of your second point. We have resource sinks for those. Nano health pads. Poly energy pads.  Plastids lots of weapons and frames. Ferrite lots of misc and frames. But I do have lots of nano spores I'd be happy to sink in to something. But they would prob make it 1 mil base cost or like 5 mil.

[Jeloxale]

1 hour ago, Coldstreme said:

You're oversimplifying the problem, if it was 500 mutagen samples per player from the market I wouldn't bat an eye, but its tied to clan research, and goes off every player in the clan, active or not, donating 500 mutagen samples. I see that as a problem even when my own mastery rank 15-18s in my own clan, could hardly muster 400-500 of their own stockpiles with their hundreds of hours. Expecting 100% activity of clans, and 100% of the active players to contribute is the problem.

 

The point of research is people coming together to farm up the required resource so that the whole clan can enjoy the finished product. There's a kick option in clan afaik. If this issue bothers you that much you can start using it. The point of this game, and any other RPG for that matter, is grind. No grind=No game. This is the update the community needs to wake up to reality of this game but not the one they are willing to accept. As such and outrage is created over people getting too comfortable.

Let's say the cost is too much. Then what would be good enough? 50 seems kinda right does it now? That means with 25% activity rate the active players must farm up 200 or more, which does not even take that long. The reason this is not enough is ironically because it's just not enough.

[Jitzul]

I bought the pack with new weapons and frame,only time I have actually done that(splurge a little for the first time) because this update added ridicolous grind wall. Nidus takes forever to get on a more tedious version of interception. It's the first time a frame took that long to get,even equinox/mesa don't look so bad now. This mutagen sample req is...In my time playing warframe I obtained maybe a grand total of few hundred of these and for my clan I need 150 000,so i cant even contribute 1% to the research.I cant imagine how DE can look at that and justify this. DE needs to see the outrage, so this kind of thing won't happen to all the new content, people will be forced to either grind endlessly or shill out to gain access to new content.

 

[eksby]

You should add this guy's post to the OP, the cost for the Hema is quite ridiculous compared to what all other research in the dojo has been.

 

On 12/23/2016 at 1:53 AM, Buff00n said:

Yeah, it seems like there has to be an extra zero in some of the Hema numbers.

Before Hema, these are the total resources a Ghost clan needs to build everything in clan research:

Mutagen Sample	485
Nano Spores	79550
Neurodes	17
Plastids	31390

After Hema, some of the totals have increased by orders of magnitude:

Mutagen Sample	5485	1031% increase
Nano Spores	124550	57% increase
Neurodes	67	294% increase
Plastids	41390	32% increase

Numbers are for Ghost clan, but percentages apply to all tiers.  This is unreasonable for a single research item.

[AbhijitSM]

This cost is actually absolutely ridiculous plain & simple. And to those white knights of DE defending their decision especially by saying that either shrink your clan size or get more active players are making these statements without going deeper into this issue with nothing but a blank mindset. We did exactly that but it didn't solve anything. Let me explain a bit.

Our clan was a storm clan with 100 members initially with fairly active players at that time 2 yrs back. But then as the player base became inactive we decided to shrink the clan to shadow clan (30 members) by kicking in active players & also trying to recruit active players to fill in the empty spots. We also have a 30 day kick policy in place so that players can actively participate & if not we simply kick them out & recruit new people. Now heres the catch with new recruitment that nobody seems to really understand. Though we would like veteran players to join in our clan who have decent resources to contribute its simply too difficult to do so. Veteran players either have their own clans which they started yrs ago OR have long term affiliations with clans they have been for a long time which they simply don't want to leave. So this means we are forced to recruit newer players into the clan which simply DO NOT have enough resources to contribute hence the responsibility of contributing lies primarily with the veteran members of the clan. Having to contribute total 15k mutagen samples was a giant pain in the backside for us veterans & we struggled to do so. With only 3 veteran players in the clan, i contributed 5k, another player contributed 6k & the last one contributed around 2k which still left us short of around 2k which was eventually then met by other players who contributed in bits & pieces.

So defenders of DE ? How does your suggestion of reducing clan tiers or recruiting active players change anything ? Can you explain this now ?      

 

Beside that i have played since apr 2013 now & have put 3k+ actual hrs into the game (not steam hrs). Till now i had managed to collect total 5182 mutagen samples ( all almost gone now) compared to 20k fieldron samples & 27k detonite ampules. So why this HUGE difference between mutagen samples & the other 2 ? Is it because i play infested less ? No,no it isnt. Its simply just the disparity by how these 3 resource drops are spread across the star chart. Earlier mutagen samples were available all thru the star chart before DE decided to introduce derelicts & specifically make mutagens drop from that node before introducing them in Eris late 2014. Besides the drops on Eris are abysmal which makes derelicts the only place for farming mutagens without getting frustrated. So simply put mutagens are only available on in 2 places compared to the other 2 which are spread across the rest of the starchart which skews the ratio a bit too much in favor of the other 2 being obtained more by the players.    

[tnccs215]

What bothers me the most is how this is, no doubt, a cash grab taking advantage of impatient players.

DE defended this choice arguing it is meant to make the Hema a medium term investment, giving a bigger purpose to clans by actually requiring some active investment.

Even though said investment can ve reduced to mindless farming, I do have to agree there is some point in that. Indeed, I've been quite enjoying the Delerict Survivals I've been doing with Nidus.

However, if this rhetoric was, indeed, truthful, than the market cost of the weapon would too be disproportionetly high.

It isn't. It is the standard 225 plat, which is an usual (read: Stupidly inflated as most market costs) cost in the market.

If it was something like 500 plat, than yes, this would be a bigger medium term encouragement (or even a bigger cash grab). But it isn't.

So yeah. DE's been drinking too much greedy milk.

[Hellnar_Doombringer]

It's like Sibear but 100x harder. Seriously this is getting absurd...

[petepuma]

I think everyone needs to take a deep breath and relax. Yes the cost of researching this weapon is way out of line. Regardless of what the response from DE has been so far I think a lot of the devs are on holiday. I also believe when they come back they will realize it is a mistake and adjust accordingly. In other words Don't panic.

[AbhijitSM]

1 minute ago, petepuma said:

I think everyone needs to take a deep breath and relax. Yes the cost of researching this weapon is way out of line. Regardless of what the response from DE has been so far I think a lot of the devs are on holiday. I also believe when they come back they will realize it is a mistake and adjust accordingly. In other words Don't panic.

Even if they reduce the cost i will be partially happy now. The refund of mutagen samples will just sit inactive in the clan vault & will not be refunded to the players who actually contributed. So in case mutagen samples are required for other than clan research it will again be a grind for us which simply doesnt sit well with me. To be quite honest this resource requirement actually pinched me a little bit :-( All my 5k mutagen samples collected in 3 yrs & 3k+ hrs gone.

[(XBOX)Shodian]

I'll just buy it with plat and save a lot of the hassle. :P

[shadrad]

Legitimate complaint and discussion, but seriously OP, can we not fly straight into hyperbole country with the inappropriate use of that poem? Resource costs for an optional weapon in a F2P game are not analogous to the Holocaust, no matter how upset you are by them. 

[Midrib]

22 minutes ago, petepuma said:

I think everyone needs to take a deep breath and relax. Yes the cost of researching this weapon is way out of line. Regardless of what the response from DE has been so far I think a lot of the devs are on holiday. I also believe when they come back they will realize it is a mistake and adjust accordingly. In other words Don't panic.

I don't think a tweet or a forum post from one of the devs is too much to ask, but I will keep an open mind till the next update. but like I said on the 80 pages thread DE's silence and this response                    V

On 12/22/2016 at 11:42 PM, [DE]Taylor said:

 Although we do not intend to make any changes, we appreciate constructive and respectful feedback. 

 

doesn't leave much optimism to be had.

 

 

[Hypernaut1]

its one out of two infested weapons they released with the update weapon.....Are they also evil for making the other weapon relatively trivial to craft?

Edited December 25, 2016 by Hypernaut1

[heisthex]

The experiment DE should do is open their own clan, invite all their staffs into the clan and farm the mutagen samples.

Let see does this without cheats, without boosters, all start from MR0, minimum mastery rank to start farming is MR12.

See how much time do they need to farm it with average hour of playtime.

Let see do the staffs think the cost is acceptable.

[Etan-gK]

1 minute ago, heisthex said:

The experiment DE should do is open their own clan, invite all their staffs into the clan and farm the mutagen samples.

Let see does this without cheats, without boosters, all start from MR0, minimum mastery rank to start farming is MR12.

See how much time do they need to farm it with average hour of playtime.

Let see do the staffs think the cost is acceptable.

but they don't play their own game, which is why they're so out of touch with the game

[Midrib]

17 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

its one out of two infested weapons they released with the update weapon.....Are they also evil for making the other weapon relatively trivial to craft?

Its also one weapon that has 10x the mutagen cost of every item in the bio lab.

And making half the weapon content you released in an update hidden behind a huge grind wall, you are bound to get some complaints.

Edited December 25, 2016 by Midrib

[Hesyol]

I don't think that's some kind of "war". Just a really stupid decision and a very bad choice of words. Seriously, if you're talking to your customers, saying what they say doesn't matter isn't a good idea

[(XBOX)BluAina]

Stating hours is next to useless, a player can have thousands of hours and have only spent it in the void , (as was the case with pre relic system, thousands might be a gross exaggeration but the point still stands) I don't have nearly as much as hours as others, and I have 6k. Maybe I'm just speaking from a place of pure ignorance(console player obvi) but I don't see what the problem is, this JUST came out and we're bickering because we have to work for something longer than we have to, or are the drops really that bad for them?