Steadfast Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Its not even that great. I wouldn't grind for it. I got it in the pack before I knew it was in the clan dojo. Yea, its new, everyone wants it. The requirements to get it don't justify though. Yes, they need to encourage some people to spend plat, but there are a lot of grubs who never will. So why make it even harder? You alienate part of your playerbase that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danewgui2 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 On 1/2/2017 at 4:22 AM, ograzzt said: 1. We made a mistake. 2. We didn't fix it fast enough. 3. Solution: do nothing anyway because few clans had stockpiles and big number of active players (c) DE logic, 2016-2017. Why does that sound like 1. We made a mistake. 2. We didn't fix it fast enough. 3. Stay silent for a very long time before fixing our game. So they are taking a No Man's Sky approach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBugII Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) First part of fixing a mistake is realizing you made it in the first place, which DE in their infinite wisdom has yet to do. The Hema is gimmick trash weapon and it's not even remotely worth the grind to get the mutagen for. Now if it did 300 damage per shot, it'd be a different story. Edited January 4, 2017 by DBugII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Stealth_Cobra Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) Well, Steve, if you think alienating 98% of your fanbase because 2% of the playerbase have went all extremists and farmed for days for a gun, be my guest. Personally, I'll just skip the gun and stop buying plat packs till you change your mind ! You said it yourself, this is a live game which constantly has to run "scripts" to fix issues such as these. Well, make a script that refund the surplus of mutagen samples to the people/clans that donated them... Done... Fixed, nobody is complaining. At the very least, if you don't fix the costs, fix the drop rates... Make it a common farmable ressource like all other resources, not something that drops in like a single tileset in packs of one unit from crates. That way we can farm these in an efficient and not ridiculious manner and be done with the reaserch in days, not weeks or months. Edited January 4, 2017 by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enizer Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) It still looks to me like not everyone fully understands the problem. It's not grinding 5000 of something that's the big problem, though the amount is insane for a thing that drops in single units in very few locations. The problem is twofold, #1 their estimation of how much each member needs to contribute, estimated 100% participation of 100% useful members, and #2, drop locations(adressed lower down). Most clans are NOT at their member cap. Most clans do also not have purely useful members. Even members that play quite well for endgame content, may still give you the finger for extended resource farming. ..We are already approaching only 1/4th of most clans might be useful for farming, making their initial estimate WAY off. So, we need to grind 5000 of a thingy that drops at a rate of 1/minute outside meta farming groups and boosters. Ok, that's been doable so far, I didn't complain of the other silly high requirement ones, that required oxium, cryotic, or such resources, I just moved to their respective planet, it got done eventually. So, what is it this time, mutagen sample.. ok, that's.. Eris and the derelict.. so, I'll play on Eris for a few days.. oh wait, Eris drops the samples at 1/hour..and, I need 5k? Eris is right out, that will take YEARS. Ok, onto the derelict then, no matchmaking, no alerts, no void missions, no kuva, need to build keys per mission.. so, that makes this a pure farming trip then. The drop rate(as quoted from the megathread) is 1/minute. so, that's looking at a base time of.. wait.. REALLY? 83 MANHOURS? IN THE DERELICT? Even if we get a very favorable ratio of 40% (WELL above the average useful ratio of clans in my experience), and double the drop rate by meta play, including atlas, nekros, hyrdos, and those frames, that's still over 8 hours(per person) of monotonous derelict runs, with NO OTHER WAY TO GET IT. You just need to dedicate those hours grinding a mission noone actually likes, no non-boring way possible. And then there's the trend some people are seeing appear: "*cough* boosters for sale if you want to get to some of that fabled FUN you came here for." This needs to be handled carefully. And at the very least, DE, please avoid deadline patches, they cause some serious issues, and unlike the one last summer, this one had over a week for tempers to reach the boiling point, with no useful answers or comments. -- If this sounds aggressive that's unintended, I'm just getting a strong feeling that many people, perhaps even DE themselves, aren't quite clear on exactly what the problem is. Edited January 4, 2017 by enizer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EgAlia Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 The thing that irriates me is that, like someone said it will take 83 hours running meta farming groups. Playing without nekros, hydroid etc, would make it take to long. I really like the Eris tileset, but that will take far to long. For me it's not about the time, it's that the plat cost is so miniscule considering the time to get this weapon. Which is why it feels like a plat grab. You either have a 100% active clan, you farmed the derelict before for some reason or suck up and spend plat for it. Which you get kinda discouraged to do in this case. I remember the lenses were the same way, first like rivens you had a chance with getting a lens everyday if you were doing the sorties, then they changed it so you could buy it on the market and while doing that they made lenses harder to get, like 1 lens per month. That was a bit ridiculous, some us actually like to play and farm for the stuff. But well I'm not going to wait a month for it. For me when they put stuff like this into the game, they start splitting the community apart, when the time to play and farm for something get so silly it's almost impossible to do it and the price to buy it get's so small. If we will buy every new single weapon etc, what will be left to do in the game really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enizer Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 5 minutes ago, EgAlia said: The thing that irriates me is that, like someone said it will take 83 hours running meta farming groups. Playing without nekros, hydroid etc, would make it take to long. I really like the Eris tileset, but that will take far to long. For me it's not about the time, it's that the plat cost is so miniscule considering the time to get this weapon. Which is why it feels like a plat grab. You either have a 100% active clan, you farmed the derelict before for some reason or suck up and spend plat for it. Which you get kinda discouraged to do in this case. I remember the lenses were the same way, first like rivens you had a chance with getting a lens everyday if you were doing the sorties, then they changed it so you could buy it on the market and while doing that they made lenses harder to get, like 1 lens per month. That was a bit ridiculous, some us actually like to play and farm for the stuff. But well I'm not going to wait a month for it. For me when they put stuff like this into the game, they start splitting the community apart, when the time to play and farm for something get so silly it's almost impossible to do it and the price to buy it get's so small. If we will buy every new single weapon etc, what will be left to do in the game really. It's 83 hours BEFORE the meta play, but yeah, that's kind of the problem, it's not even hours of Eris in general or something, which would be manageable, eventually, but no, it's forced grinding of ODD and ODS, and pretty much nothing else. That gets so insanely boring so fast, that it looks like there's no way to avoid burnout except just, pay up, one way or another. Some of the ways this game is monetized has made several of my friends quit, things like 1 lens per month were annoying, but the biggest culprit is the vault program, not everyone coughs up the plat for trade chat when they are told they have flat out NO way of getting something themselves.. MOST of my friends opted to stop playing instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Sange13 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 On 1/2/2017 at 2:10 AM, bubbabenali said: Conveniently he forgot to include the part where Steve mentioned how he thinks about some ways to get samples by other means than powerfarming the derilict... That's all good and fine, in theory, but in practice the problem is the lack of other good resources while the obscenely restrictive price remains in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)BigJoe1627-_- Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Just downgrade your clan to the amount of active people you have problem solved. If the whole clan contributes it's only 500 samples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Sange13 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 2 hours ago, (PS4)Bigjoe1627joseph said: Just downgrade your clan to the amount of active people you have problem solved. If the whole clan contributes it's only 500 samples. That's still a lot of samples considering I just spend the last two days doing little other than Akaad, and got less than 50 with a booster on. No. The price needs reduction. It's that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arniox Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 agreed. the cost is wayyy too high Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UrielColtan Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, (PS4)Sange13 said: That's still a lot of samples considering I just spend the last two days doing little other than Akaad, and got less than 50 with a booster on. No. The price needs reduction. It's that simple. There is a 60 day cool down for kicking people out of your clan for this stupid weapon, no one should have to though. The cost is ridiculous and should not be contoured to by players, and defending this will just lead to more similar garbage in the future, and a less social aspect to clans, with people selling member slots, as multiple shills defending this have resorted to doing. 5 hours ago, (PS4)Bigjoe1627joseph said: Just downgrade your clan to the amount of active people you have problem solved. If the whole clan contributes it's only 500 samples. Akkad, or Eris in general, is the wrong place to be getting mutagen samples, you have to live in the Orokin Derelict if you want more reliable mutagen sample drops, though even doing this is still a chore and should not be required in the first place. DE changing the cost and/or drop chance is the better option. Edited January 4, 2017 by UrielColtan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciaus Posted January 4, 2017 Author Share Posted January 4, 2017 6 hours ago, (PS4)Bigjoe1627joseph said: Just downgrade your clan to the amount of active people you have problem solved. If the whole clan contributes it's only 500 samples. I effectively run a solo clan that hosts my IRL friends. Unless I totally destroy the social aspect of it, or literally hundreds of hours of forma and research put in, there's no way for me to avoid needing to get 5K mutagen. The whole attitude of "just downsize clans" is a serious blow to more social / casual players. It should be considered a very very bad thing for the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)DeluxeKnight831 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 7 hours ago, (PS4)Bigjoe1627joseph said: Just downgrade your clan to the amount of active people you have problem solved. If the whole clan contributes it's only 500 samples. no one should have to downgrade their clan because of a S#&$ty weapons research cost. before this, solo clans could research everything they wanted now i have to recruit other people who would be willing to join my clan to help out with the research Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nulloperations Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Ciaus said: I effectively run a solo clan that hosts my IRL friends. Unless I totally destroy the social aspect of it, or literally hundreds of hours of forma and research put in, there's no way for me to avoid needing to get 5K mutagen. The whole attitude of "just downsize clans" is a serious blow to more social / casual players. It should be considered a very very bad thing for the community. This. My clan is as small as possible, and all members are a close nit group of players who for the most part are on hiatus from Warframe. Essentially I'm the only one providing resources and research for my clan. If the research was based on the number of active players (Say, players who have logged in within 30-90 days?), and it scaled with that, I'd find the base alone worth doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_sheepy_ Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 On 1/2/2017 at 9:22 AM, ograzzt said: 1. We made a mistake. 2. We didn't fix it fast enough. 3. Solution: do nothing anyway because few clans had stockpiles and big number of active players (c) DE logic, 2016-2017. They said at the start it's Not a mistake. More lies from developers that promised to be more honest. The fact they need to promise that in the first place speaks volumes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)maso_sage-mode Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 nekros desecrate is nerfed , it isnt like pre rework, still decent tho but uncomparable with the old one. Pilfering hydroid + nekros is good. 4 nekros with slash weapons is best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_sheepy_ Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) On 1/3/2017 at 3:10 PM, Retrijeuj said: Yes, yes, you've all been using this argument like it's a fact and it's done before they give you new ways of farming mutagens. You should try to come up with your own arguments now. That's because it is a fact. On 1/3/2017 at 3:10 PM, Retrijeuj said: the list of weapons I want to craft and forma a few times is still pretty long That's you,i have them all. On 1/3/2017 at 3:10 PM, Retrijeuj said: As for clans with half people inactive, just dump them. I was trying to build my clan up,I have 11 active players and 6 of them have low MR,so that's 15k mutagen. I also can no longer advertise all clan research complete in pursuit of new clan members. On 1/3/2017 at 3:10 PM, Retrijeuj said: Also, some people told me about how research costs are scaled to veteran players. That's just wrong and makes me wonder how much experience you have with this game. On 1/3/2017 at 3:10 PM, Retrijeuj said: but the fact that you'll have to grind to get it is good. I don't think the grind for 15k mutagens with 11 clan members,half of which are very low MR is good,or more to the point,FUN! Edited January 4, 2017 by _sheepy_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aratir Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Possible answers later on: "It's just a prank bro!!!" "Kneel down and farm for it or buy it with real money loser." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrijeuj Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Oh, "it's a fact". Well then, why do I even bother arguing, if what you agree with is "fact". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninjamurai Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) I'm totally fine with long-term, end-game type projects for clans to work on. That overall is a good enough idea. One of the many problems comes when that end-game long-term project is finished & it is no where near worth the amount of effort, time, and resources that were put into it. With the cost that the Hema has you would think you were researching some sort of infested space-ship, not an infested pea-shooter. I mean, the gun is OK, but the research requirement is equivalent to going to Home-Depot to buy 500 pounds of lumber, only to go & build a bird house instead of an actual house. One of the biggest irks to me about this Hema research cost is how poorly it fits into the game thematically/lore-wise. How much does every other infested gun/bow/sword/etc. cost to research? Usually less than 100. And what cost does the Hema have? 100? 500? 1000? Nope, 5-freaking-thousand (Or much much more if you have a large clan). I fail to see how this cost makes *any* sense when all it is is to make *1* little assault rifle. If it costed 5000 to make some new infested Liset or something, OK, at least it can almost make sense. But to have this exorbitant cost on something that really does *not* stand out from the crowd of other infested weapons, it's just crazy. Overall, if DE wants to make insanely expensive costs for things, so be it. But please, *please* at least make those things *worth* the dang cost, make them worth building towards. As it is now, the cost of the Hema's research just makes it look like DE wanted to force (Or extremely encourage...) players to buy the new shiny weapon over the holidays. There isn't really any other way to see it. If instead of mutagen samples the cost was in Neurodes or something, well then maybe there could be a way to defend this insanity. But since it requires an insane amount of resources that only drop in a few places, and are very rare to find in the first place, it just makes this a total joke. Something needs to be changed, whether it's being able to find mutagen samples easier, or the cost of the Hema research to be lessened entirely. (And no, just because some players in larger/more dedicated hardcore clans put up with the cost & farmed & grinded for this terrible price, does not mean that it's OK the way it is. "Oh, how can it be bad that XXX costs an arm & a leg when other players are willing to chop off their arms & legs for it? You just need to toughen up & give us your arms & legs too, quit whining.") Edited January 4, 2017 by Ninjamurai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_sheepy_ Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 16 hours ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said: riven disposition nerfs... "ah just kidding it's less now." hundreds of stockpiled keys become trash relics... "ah just kidding it's less now." ash bladestorm nerfed... "ah just kidding it's less now." thousands of people grinded their butts off for oxium for zephyr, which is totally overabundant nowadays... "ah just kidding it's less now." kubrow eggs dropping like candy... "ah just kidding it's less now." no need for beacons for hydroid farm anymore... "ah just kidding it's less now." no information about a planned introduction of archwing slot costs... "ah just kidding it's less now." (aka. "yep, surprise") removing viver / e-gate / draco... "ah just kidding it's less now." gammacor ammo consumption... "ah just kidding it's less now." basically EVERY rebalance of any weapon / frame ever purchasable in the market... "ah just kidding it's less now." ... i just can't get over how laughable that response is. and now the first update since christmas vacation: still nothing. not even another official statement... (btw. i actually support alot of the mentioned nerfs, just some random examples from the back of my head which go completely against the "reasoning" regarding hema costs...) We we promise to be more open and honest in the future. "ah just kidding it's less now." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simmml Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 I ran a 40 minute survival with 2 Nekros, got 77 samples. Am the only ACTIVE member in my clan of rl friends. Great stuff... Will not kick my friends because DE thinks they should stop being casual scrubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_sheepy_ Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 23 minutes ago, Retrijeuj said: Oh, "it's a fact". Well then, why do I even bother arguing, if what you agree with is "fact". Is this your answer to me about the many things i pointed out that was wrong with your comment/post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrijeuj Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Just now, _sheepy_ said: Is this your answer to me about the many things i pointed out that was wrong with your comment/post? Well, yes and no. I have already given my arguments for the matter, and I have nothing particular to answer, so if my arguments didn't convice you already, I'm done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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