You know how Nullifiers would not be annoying?

[Inarticulate]

2 hours ago, ltmauve said:

Also, because of a bug, shotguns aren't effective against it.

Not a bug; how it works. All damage landing in the same frame is counted as a single instance of damage to prevent shotguns and multishot mods from being too effective.

 

5 hours ago, Ciaus said:

By totally avoiding the priority targets under the nully bubble and being useless, sure. 
There's no sane reason Inaros or Chroma should lose their most useful modification to an enemy that spawns very commonly. A disable makes a lot more sense and still forces you to assess what you are about to jump into, and still leaves grapples and enemy synergies with the nullifier intact. 

Bring a melee weapon more suited for the job. Gunblades and glaives can damage the bubble from a distance. Any weapon with decent reach can damage the bubble without putting you at risk of touching it.

Worst case scenario if you really must bring a tank with only melee, bring a tank that doesn't lose their tankiness by walking into a bubble or have tanking abilities that are quick to recast. Nekros can walk into a bubble without losing his shadows (even if shadows are too dumb to keep themselves from walking into bubbles). Valkyr's Warcry and Rhino's Iron Skin are fast to recast.

Right tool for the job. As much as I love Ivara's play style, I concede that she's not so great at defense-type missions while solo. As much as I'm loving Nidus, I similarly concede that he's lackluster in short missions where you cannot build up an appreciable number of Mutation stacks.

In much the same way, going melee-only against the Corpus with a Warframe that relies on ability-related self-buffs to stay alive means you have specifically chosen that level of difficulty. What you're doing is no different than starting a game that gives you the option of easy, normal, hard, and nightmare difficulty, picking nightmare difficulty, and then complaining that it's too hard.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Inarticulate

[(XBOX)Demon Intellect]

13 hours ago, _Draken_ said:

DE already stated in the last dev dtream that they are looking at it and will maybe make it so the bubble has a rotating gap.

On the other hand i think their role is to punish reckless play and im fine with that, what is really annoying imo is that in corpus sortie just too many nullifiers spawn that lay waste onto you. They should like smaller bosses but if their number gets too high it makes it too hard to single them out

When you go into later missions and have a nullifier with 5 corpus techs in his bubble, how is that punishing reckless play? Most would call that a balancing issue.

[Awazx]

Nullifiers are the answer to the lack of creativity of [DE].

[ltmauve]

58 minutes ago, Inarticulate said:

Not a bug; how it works. All damage landing in the same frame is counted as a single instance of damage to prevent shotguns and multishot mods from being too effective.

Yup. So basically, you can't use sniper rifles, because of the damage-gating, you can't use shotguns, because of the way the frame thing, you'r stuck with weapons like the boltor or other auto-trigger weapons.

So Nulifiers:

• Remove all of your own buffs
• Remove all the debuffs on enemies
• Block incoming damage for allies
• Can only be damaged effectively in two ways: assault rifles and close combat.

Arctic eximuses only do one of these (block damage) and they at least fully count the damage their bubbles take.

Combas only affect some powers and don't provide cover.

And seeing more than two of them at a time is rare (excepting eximus strongholds) while Nullifiers are spawned willy-nilly.

[Zeclem]

5 hours ago, ltmauve said:

Yup. So basically, you can't use sniper rifles, because of the damage-gating, you can't use shotguns, because of the way the frame thing, you'r stuck with weapons like the boltor or other auto-trigger weapons.

So Nulifiers:

• Remove all of your own buffs
• Remove all the debuffs on enemies
• Block incoming damage for allies
• Can only be damaged effectively in two ways: assault rifles and close combat.

Arctic eximuses only do one of these (block damage) and they at least fully count the damage their bubbles take.

Combas only affect some powers and don't provide cover.

And seeing more than two of them at a time is rare (excepting eximus strongholds) while Nullifiers are spawned willy-nilly.

assault rifles? no not really. thats not the only way. you can always use a secondary to take them out. like pox worked very well for them. but still yeah i do agree that nullifiers force you to have a specific loadout and thats really annoying. but hey, at least secondaries i use are mostly pretty good against them. *gives a tight hug to belowed lex p* dont worry buddy its all ok youre still one of my favorites.

[VonDodo]

Glitchifier should be first fixed :(

Every time i see one with Ivara with artemis i have to flee to avoid discovering new gamebreaking bugs every time.

[Unholyrequiem]

Why do nullifiers block bullets? Nullifiers make taking precision based weapons like bows and snipers impractical.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Unholyrequiem

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

It is annoying, but I do agree with some other people here. The bubble is meant to turn off the powers and I like it that way. 

I love that they're planning on adding a weak point to the top of bubbles though so my Cernos isn't useless against Nullifiers anymore. And I DEFINITELY think the bubbles should not be bulletproof in addition to ability proof. Those poor Arctic Eximus units get left in the dust. They should just make Nullifiers more durable so they aren't as easily killed by the bullets hitting them.

[RistN]

I know this is countering everything said in this topic but I do see the point of nullifiers.I wish other factions had something like this.You can affect almost whole map with some of the ability certain warframes have.Nullifiers are very squishy and with just one melee slide kick you can get rid of them.Speed of destroying those bibles is not affected by dmg but number of hits so you can't bring low fire rate weapon.They are annoying I agree but they are also unique units that force change in playstyle and force you to avoid them and make them primary targets.Because of that I think they are much needed in this game.

[Jobistober]

18 hours ago, VentiGlondi said:

I hope you enjoy having your armor buff removed when facing 4 techs

Again (and I'm asking honestly), why is this the catch-all justification for changing/removing/nerfing nullifiers?

If I understand correctly, the same line of thinking could be applied to gunners, napalms, bombards, juggies, ancients, etc. Basically, just remove higher tier enemies, have nothing but low-level horde enemies and cheese the mission. Or am I oversimplifying?

I get nullies are challenging, and downright annoying at times, but they are designed to be that way. You are supposed to re-evaluate and adjust your tactics when you encounter these enemies. The changes I'm seeing suggested would nullify Nullifiers (ha) and therefore allow you to continue cheesing through a mission, which is exactly what DE was trying to prevent.

[Grebnennar]

Speaking of nullifiers can any one explain how the damage to the bubble actually works? There are many time where I shoot a clip in the bubble and am reloading and the bubble is still getting smaller with out me shooting it, and then disappears.

Also don't know if it is just me but how about nullifiers being immune to powers even after the bubble is gone its like the bubble is still there. 

[VentiGlondi]

8 minutes ago, Jobistober said:

I get nullies are challenging, and downright annoying at times, but they are designed to be that way. You are supposed to re-evaluate and adjust your tactics when you encounter these enemies. The changes I'm seeing suggested would nullify Nullifiers (ha) and therefore allow you to continue cheesing through a mission, which is exactly what DE was trying to prevent.

Every single unit in Corpus is a damage dealer. DE made an entire faction based around the fact that they kill you fast, and you kill them fast, except then they decided to give them a unit that not only goes against this idea itself, but also protects their allies from this. Losing your damage reduction against them is not something you want to do, and the fact they could remove it completely by grazing your toe is infuriating.

Also nullifiers do not prevent cheesing the mission. Making me pick a soma or simulor over vectis or hek is not preventing anything, it's encouraging already popular loadouts even further.

[Jobistober]

6 minutes ago, VentiGlondi said:

Every single unit in Corpus is a damage dealer. DE made an entire faction based around the fact that they kill you fast, and you kill them fast, except then they decided to give them a unit that not only goes against this idea itself, but also protects their allies from this. Losing your damage reduction against them is not something you want to do, and the fact they could remove it completely by grazing your toe is infuriating.

Also nullifiers do not prevent cheesing the mission. Making me pick a soma or simulor over vectis or hek is not preventing anything, it's encouraging already popular loadouts even further.

Agree with the first part of the post. Corpus definitely put out tons of damage at higher levels, but I just don't see "I lose my buffs" as a reasonable justification for changing or removing nullies.

On the other hand, no one is forcing you to use meta loadouts against nullifiers. Like I've mentioned before, you can take the crappiest medium-high fire rate side arm (furis, viper, sicarus) and pop a bubble in seconds.

That's just my perspective on it. Experiences may vary and what all.

[Jobistober]

18 minutes ago, Grebnennar said:

Speaking of nullifiers can any one explain how the damage to the bubble actually works? There are many time where I shoot a clip in the bubble and am reloading and the bubble is still getting smaller with out me shooting it, and then disappears.

Also don't know if it is just me but how about nullifiers being immune to powers even after the bubble is gone its like the bubble is still there. 

Two things are happening here: 1) Bubbles become reduced by number of hits, not damage, and that number seems relatively static (regardless of enemy scale), 2) The bubble can only shrink so fast. So when you shoot it with a high fire rate weapon, you most likely pass the number of shots needed to pop the bubble but the animation has to catch up.

EDIT: Shotguns don't seem to affect bubbles per pellet, but per shot fired. This is unfortunate, but the way it is currently.

I fire at bubbles in bursts so as not to waste ammo.

The other issue could be a bug... not sure.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Jobistober

[Cloud]

On 10/1/2017 at 11:57 AM, KYLoooo said:

If they would pause aka nullifies abilities and not stop them.

I'm really tired of losing my god damn 80% slow Equinox or Inaros Buff. 

the change which DE will make is an excellent idea for me.

[ltmauve]

9 hours ago, Jobistober said:

Again (and I'm asking honestly), why is this the catch-all justification for changing/removing/nerfing nullifiers?

If I understand correctly, the same line of thinking could be applied to gunners, napalms, bombards, juggies, ancients, etc. Basically, just remove higher tier enemies, have nothing but low-level horde enemies and cheese the mission. Or am I oversimplifying?

I get nullies are challenging, and downright annoying at times, but they are designed to be that way. You are supposed to re-evaluate and adjust your tactics when you encounter these enemies. The changes I'm seeing suggested would nullify Nullifiers (ha) and therefore allow you to continue cheesing through a mission, which is exactly what DE was trying to prevent.

It's because they close off a lot of options to the players. They can't use powers, a lot of weapons are less than useful against the bubble, especially when there are a lot of Nullies on the field, and they protect a lot of enemies.

Bombards and Ancients aren't anywhere as annoying because the player still has most of their options open. You can just shoot a Bombard, or use an ability, or you can try going in close against them. When there are half a dozen nullifiers on the field, shooting them is impractical because their bubbles overlap and regenerate too fast for that to be useful, so melee is the best option.

I think another reason they're hated so much is because the spawn rate is so much higher than the other annoying units. In Dark Sector Survival there are rarely more than three Ancients on the field for the first 30 minutes.