Nidus's 15 Stack loss. Fair, BUT...

[--RV--LadySpiderwick]

I don't see that big of a problem with the changes, yes it sucks having 5 more stacks lost and drain when in nullifier bubble but he was strong enough that he needs some sort of handicap. I don't necessarily agree with the nullfier one but nidus's playstyle means you have to get those stacks and he doesn't work in all game modes, certain ones make him shine a lot (e.g. extended survival runs). It sucks to lose all stacks before getting to 15 but you can gain them effectively enough, that just means you need have a good mod setup and appropriate weapons, for example having the Hirudo with a blood rush/body count build to get that health regen, life strike- modded weapons etc. My reasoning for not wanting to keep stacks upon bleedout is based on, what's the point of losing under 15 stacks upon death then if not a potential exploit or abusable aspect of nidus.

It means you need to mod for survivability and getting those stacks up with good weapons to counter enemy damage whilst trying to gain them. I've done extended runs (under an hour) of derelict survival and paired up with even the hirodo and keeping on the move whilst gaining stacks keeps you alive and stacking up without much of a problem. Without a corrosive projection either. 

[Drufo]

Reading this thread made me ill...

I think the OP made a good points. For Nidus stacks are like energy (but they need more work to build them), and since there's no frame that looses energy on bleedout, then he should not loose them. 

[--RV--LadySpiderwick]

8 minutes ago, Drufo said:

Reading this thread made me ill...

I think the OP made a good points. For Nidus stacks are like energy (but they need more work to build them), and since there's no frame that looses energy on bleedout, then he should not loose them. 

Stacks aren't the same as energy although, you can use an energy restore and regain your energy back but nidus needs enemies to get stacks back. So in this comparison enemies are like the energy restores in a way, you need them for stacking. Also the OP comes across as quite aggressive and pushy in their opinion even when others are making fair points.

I'm not completely disagreeing that the OP doesn't not have a point, rather, that playstyle and what you do can counter that. Not every ally will go down, and with the changes for nullies letting single shot weapons target a little drone above their head will add some QoL to countering them.

 

[achromos]

15 minutes ago, Drufo said:

Reading this thread made me ill...

I think the OP made a good points. For Nidus stacks are like energy (but they need more work to build them), and since there's no frame that looses energy on bleedout, then he should not loose them. 

Exactly my point,  then everyone and their grandmother wanted to immediately measure their e-peens without actually reading

 

no frame loses all their energy upon entering bleed out.  Stacks are used as a new energy resource so why are they being subtracted when the passive isn't coming into play?  Like I said in the title the 15 cost for a free instant revive is fine.  It's just annoying to have to worry about going down and losing the 14 stacks.

 

people can keep crying about his 4 but no amount of regen will give you back your face if a corrupted bombard or other high level unit deals one hp point more than you have.  His 3 does help but maybe the room was clear before.  Leaving you with no clear target to use your 3 on.  So you start reviving your downed ally and get shot in the back while reviving.

 

this is a example,  this isn't some deficiency on my part but just something I was stating for a example.  Was it the best?  Obviously not but the point of the topic was not to measure each other's "veteran status" but it was a attempt to get some symmetry.

 

Edited January 13, 2017 by achromos
Autocorrect

[bluepheonix13]

13 minutes ago, Drufo said:

Reading this thread made me ill...

I think the OP made a good points. For Nidus stacks are like energy (but they need more work to build them), and since there's no frame that looses energy on bleedout, then he should not loose them. 

^

Going even further, frames with channeled abilities like Ember even keep their ability on during bleedout, I really don't see why Nidus should lose all stacks during only bleedout. It's fine if he really dies, but I say he can keep his stacks if he is revived. And that is not even really a buff to Nidus but more QoL.

[Mattoropael]

4 hours ago, achromos said:

Here, how about you use all the defensive mods you have, go into a simulacrum and pull out a lvl 100 corrupted bombard.  Stand there and get hit ONCE.  Tell me the results.  I'm eager to hear.

 

I'm curious. What sort of content do you play to meet level 100 enemies immediately without any chance to build up stacks? Even Sortie 3 and Kuva Flood start with just level 80 mobs.

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

3 hours ago, Mattoropael said:

 

I'm curious. What sort of content do you play to meet level 100 enemies immediately without any chance to build up stacks? Even Sortie 3 and Kuva Flood start with just level 80 mobs.

I'm actually curious about this too. 

Edited January 13, 2017 by (PS4)RenovaKunumaru

[(XBOX)Demon Intellect]

On 1/13/2017 at 4:14 AM, Chiffolololon said:

Your 3 and your 4 is there for a reason. If you want to revive ? easy, you need only 1 stack to cast your 3 on a mob and voila.

Let's say you are fighting corpus. You cast your 3 and a nullifier walks into you linked target it unlinks. If it even walks into the link leash itself it unlinks. What then?

[JalakBali]

On 1/13/2017 at 6:33 PM, Drufo said:

Reading this thread made me ill...

I think the OP made a good points. For Nidus stacks are like energy (but they need more work to build them), and since there's no frame that looses energy on bleedout, then he should not loose them. 

You also don't get from "regular frame" to "death god even against lvl 100s" with a full energy bar. Nidus' stacks are NOTHING like energy. He's built to be stronger the longer the game goes and the more stacks he built. He also gets extra life with more than 15 stacks. You don't get that with energy (except maybe Wukong I guess). The whole Nidus gameplay is about playing carefully before you get to 15 stacks and then you can go nuts after that. Risk versus reward.

[Xzorn]

I don't really see anything wrong with allowing him to keep 14 or less stacks when revived since this really only helps him get started and does just about nothing to keep him going. Once you proc undying more than once within a minute, you have to be very cautious because a 3rd time and you may never recover.

If you even drop to 15 stacks against late game enemies. You're done either way.

[Chiffolololon]

15 hours ago, (Xbox One)Demon Intellect said:

Let's say you are fighting corpus. You cast your 3 and a nullifier walks into you linked target it unlinks. If it even walks into the link leash itself it unlinks. What then?

Punch it once, its dead and link something else. afraid of 1 corpus that much ? dont bother ressing.

Also, if u get to high level one shot like the op said, if nidus dies by getting 1 shot then any frame would die from getting 1 shot, thus what's the point of staying there to ress someone if you know you'll be dead anyway ? provided against such enemies, any frame would die not just nidus. So your point is invalid.

Edited January 15, 2017 by Chiffolololon

[ShiraHagane]

On 1/13/2017 at 4:53 AM, Hieracon said:

No one-shottting here mate, it took 6 rockets to kill me.

If Nidus enters bleedout and does not get revived by his team mates those stacks should be forfeit. Its like that for every other frame.

you should replace overextended with intensify or power drift, at the moment you're only getting 50% DR, whereas with 180% power strength you'd have 5 times more eHP with 90% DR

[Xzorn]

1 hour ago, ShiraHagane said:

you should replace overextended with intensify or power drift, at the moment you're only getting 50% DR, whereas with 180% power strength you'd have 5 times more eHP with 90% DR

 

It's actually Streamline for Blind Rage.

235% Range is a good build for Nidus. I use a 299% Power 145% Range and a 235%Range 209% Power. They both work very well.

The Range build can gain stacks more easily, does more AoE damage via Maggot explosions and Virulence + Larva distance also being a little more energy efficient and the Power build can do more focused damage but has less CC potential and less roaming distance via Link. I've taken them both to lvl 300 T4.

There's little difference in performance. I would actually recommend a 235% Range build for most players since you won't notice a difference at all under lvl 150.

[Kalvorax]

2 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

 

It's actually Streamline for Blind Rage.

235% Range is a good build for Nidus. I use a 299% Power 145% Range and a 235%Range 209% Power. They both work very well.

The Range build can gain stacks more easily, does more AoE damage via Maggot explosions and Virulence + Larva distance also being a little more energy efficient and the Power build can do more focused damage but has less CC potential and less roaming distance via Link. I've taken them both to lvl 300 T4.

There's little difference in performance. I would actually recommend a 235% Range build for most players since you won't notice a difference at all under lvl 150.

hmm sounds interesting..how many forma are we talking about?

[Xzorn]

12 minutes ago, xcynderx said:

hmm sounds interesting..how many forma are we talking about?

 

I used 4 Forma to have both builds.

Spoiler

Rush is just my thing. I'm a spam roller. Use whatever.

Growing Power is probably the best Aura for him. I just don't have it. Torrid happens to be his best friend so Rifle Amp works well enough.

I got to lvl 310 with the Range build and lvl 370 with the Power build but like I said you prolly wont notice below those levels and the Range build is more energy efficient.

This is the run I did last night:

Spoiler

 

 

[Shockwave-]

On 1/13/2017 at 4:17 AM, achromos said:

You aren't helping.

You can still get one-shot in higher end content.  Then you lose everything without any sort of gain or purpose.  Secondly, if you have a idiot team-mate shooting everything in sight your 3 doesn't work.  Thirdly... his 4 isn't a end-all-be-all for CC or keeping you alive in high-end content.

I hate to point out the obvious but if you are playing nidus and you are into "one shot" territory and have under 15 stacks... get out. You are contriving this situation. unless just died you shouldn't be back down to 14 stacks. Your talking about a very narrow situation.

[Kaokasalis]

2 hours ago, ShiraHagane said:

you should replace overextended with intensify or power drift, at the moment you're only getting 50% DR, whereas with 180% power strength you'd have 5 times more eHP with 90% DR

It works fine enough for me in higher levels. I use that much range for Larva. It can pull every enemy in most rooms provided there is a clear line of sight to them.

[Evanescent]

1 hour ago, Xzorn said:

 

I used 4 Forma to have both builds.

  Hide contents

Rush is just my thing. I'm a spam roller. Use whatever.

Growing Power is probably the best Aura for him. I just don't have it. Torrid happens to be his best friend so Rifle Amp works well enough.

I got to lvl 310 with the Range build and lvl 370 with the Power build but like I said you prolly wont notice below those levels and the Range build is more energy efficient.

This is the run I did last night:

  Hide contents

 

 

Nice!

[(XBOX)Demon Intellect]

6 hours ago, Chiffolololon said:

Punch it once, its dead and link something else. afraid of 1 corpus that much ? dont bother ressing.

Also, if u get to high level one shot like the op said, if nidus dies by getting 1 shot then any frame would die from getting 1 shot, thus what's the point of staying there to ress someone if you know you'll be dead anyway ? provided against such enemies, any frame would die not just nidus. So your point is invalid.

Apparently valkyr and Inaros don't exist... Also you clearly don't play high end content if you aren't afraid of high level corpus techs or Lanka using nullifiers.

[Chiffolololon]

29 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Demon Intellect said:

Apparently valkyr and Inaros don't exist... Also you clearly don't play high end content if you aren't afraid of high level corpus techs or Lanka using nullifiers.

mhm. U even know what u're talking about ? rofl reading ur comment makes me laugh. So youre saying valkyr and inaros will stilll be immortal when they walk in a corpus nullifier based on your logic. lol. k. 

Also u forgot to mention wukong. 

[Chiffolololon]

31 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Demon Intellect said:

Apparently valkyr and Inaros don't exist... Also you clearly don't play high end content if you aren't afraid of high level corpus techs or Lanka using nullifiers.

And yes, I don't swim in corpus nullifiers or try to ress teamates who are dumb enough to die in it and start complaining about nullifiers nullifying all your powers. lol. again, your point is invalid.

[Gelkor]

On 1/13/2017 at 1:29 AM, achromos said:

IF NIDUS GOES DOWN WITH LESS THEN 15 STACKS HE LOSES THEM ALL.

ALL I WANT IS THAT IF YOU DON'T GET REVIVED BY HIS PASSIVE WHICH COSTS THOSE 15 NOT TO LOSE THEM.

ALL I WANT IS A LITTLE QUALITY OF LIFE.

You also lose energy, and buffs, and melee combo windows, and procs, like every frame does when they die. Nekros loses his entire pool of slain enemies for raising. Dying is bad. 

Edited January 15, 2017 by Gelkor

[Xzorn]

5 hours ago, Evanescent said:

Nice!

 

Thanks.

I wasn't sure Nidus had the damage output to make the lvl 300 club. (Frames that can solo to lvl 300 without Naramon)

It was the opposite experience of Mesa and Chroma where they have tons of damage output but start to get beat to hell by lvl 200 with T4 enemy damage.

[Rambit23Z]

1 hour ago, Xzorn said:

 

Thanks.

I wasn't sure Nidus had the damage output to make the lvl 300 club. (Frames that can solo to lvl 300 without Naramon)

It was the opposite experience of Mesa and Chroma where they have tons of damage output but start to get beat to hell by lvl 200 with T4 enemy damage.

What frames does the lvl 300 club consist of if I may ask?

[Xzorn]

8 minutes ago, Rambit23Z said:

What frames does the lvl 300 club consist of if I may ask?

 

So far,

Chroma, Mesa, Inaros, Nidus, Excal, Valkyr,

Ash, Ivara too, though really any frame with stealth can do it but since it's part of their kit I guess it counts. It's more fun to test the non-stealth frames. You kinda automatically know a stealth frame can do it so there's not much to test run.

Been meaning to try Wukong and Night Equinox.

Most of them still have a serious weakness. Like Mesa can't do high lvl Grineer at all. Radial damage just wrecks her and a single Bleed proc canl end Chroma. 

Void is prolly the most fair test. Grineer can be really cheesey with all the hit-scan weapons and radial damage. Nidus was the first time I used Grineer as a test.