New Frames only acquired via Conclave

[AdunSaveMe]

6 minutes ago, Blade_Wolf_16 said:

People are forced to play Spy missions to get Ivara, even if they don't like it. Same with Atlas and Archwing. Nidus and Infested Salvage. Saryn and Rathuum.

 Warframes in general ARE optional.

Except all of that is PvE. The game mode is different but the game is not. PvP is an almost entirely different experience.

Nothing will justify a PvP-exclusive frame. It'd be like WoW having classes you can only unlock by playing pet battles.

Edited January 17, 2017 by AdunSaveMe

[Steadfast]

Why force me to play something I don't like? Why would I do something that I don't find fun? I go to work 8 hours a day already, I don't need someone making a job out of my playtime. If you need a challenge or to do unfun things, get a job.

[Blade_Wolf_16]

2 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Except all of that is PvE. The game mode is different but the game is not. PvP is an almost entirely different experience.

Nothing will justify a PvP-exclusive frame.

That's why I said it would be better to get each parts in a different game mode. (One in Conclave, one in Rathuum and one in the Index, so 1/3 PvP and 2/3 PvE)

1/3 PvP is not what I would call "PvP-exclusive"

Edited January 17, 2017 by Blade_Wolf_16

[AdunSaveMe]

5 minutes ago, Blade_Wolf_16 said:

That's why I said it would be better to get each parts in a different game mode. (One in Conclave, one in Rathuum and one in the Index, so 1/3 PvP and 2/3 PvE)

What part of that would make it better? You're still doing Conclave.

Nobody enjoyed it when Destiny did this rubbish except people who already played PvP. It doesn't do anything except make people hate it more, and give a warm feeling to the people who are already into the mode. It accomplishes nothing positive.

5 minutes ago, Blade_Wolf_16 said:

1/3 PvP is not what I would call "PvP-exclusive"

And yet, that's exactly what it would be. You can't build it without doing PvP. You can't get the whole without that part. It might not be 100% exclusive, but it might as well be when it still requires you to do Conclave.

Edited January 17, 2017 by AdunSaveMe

[(PSN)WetPollito]

We must delete this post, DE could read it ...

Edited January 17, 2017 by (PS4)AleDiorio

[Vermitore]

I wouldn't mind some frames being available through both PvE and PvP. I think it is reasonable to reward efforts proportionately across both categories. As long as it does not prejudice the PvE availability of frames, I am happy for frames to be available in PvP. To say otherwise is just jealousy.

[AdunSaveMe]

Just now, Vermitore said:

I wouldn't mind some frames being available through both PvE and PvP. I think it is reasonable to reward efforts proportionately across both categories. As long as it does not prejudice the PvE availability of frames, I am happy for frames to be available in PvP. To say otherwise is just jealousy.

Having frames available in both modes is fair, as long as the effort is the same.

But what OP proposes is Conclave-only frames. Which is not cool.

[Vermitore]

1 minute ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Having frames available in both modes is fair, as long as the effort is the same.

But what OP proposes is Conclave-only frames. Which is not cool.

Yeah, I understand, and I agree with you. Any frame which has PvE applications should be available as a reward for PvE endeavours. Otherwise it's like manufacturing solar panels for the subterranean construction market.

[Pizzarugi]

21 minutes ago, Blade_Wolf_16 said:

Warframes in general ARE optional.

Volt can't spawn a garden of maggots, Mag can't banish people between different planes of existence, Excalibur can't turn into a tiny pixie and fly around the map.

If you're looking for a specific frame that does specific things that suit your playstyle, no, frames aren't optional.

Edited January 17, 2017 by Pizzarugi

[AntoninDvorak]

what about make the parts drop in both conclave and and pve? the 2 sides win, don't you think?

[Blade_Wolf_16]

1 minute ago, Pizzarugi said:

Saryn can't spawn a garden of maggots, Rhino can't banish people between different planes of existence, Nyx can't turn into a tiny pixie and fly around the map.

If you're looking for a specific frame that does specific things that suit your playstyle, no, frames aren't optional.

You're not forced to have it. If you really want it, you'll do whatever it takes to get it. Most of the players who farmed Ivara played for several hours, days, and weeks just to get the parts, but since they really wanted Ivara, they farmed as much as necessary. Same with Nidus, Saryn, and every Warframes. If people really want or even need it, they'll get it. If they turn back saying "it's not worth the effort", it means they didn't want it that much. 

You decide if you need this Warframe or not. I said that in general they are optional because you could do every missions, every quests and get every weapons in the game, just with one Warframe. Nobody said that you need this or this Warframe to play. You play with whatever you want. If that means playing with Nidus, Ember or Rhino, then so be it. If you want to play with those Warframes, you'll have to get them, one way or another, and you'll have to decide if it's really worth it.

[Wolfglaive]

I don't think this idea is viable. Adding more ways to obtain frames, like putting them into high tiers of the conclave seems far more reasonable than any exclusivity, especially considering that people who play Warframe mostly for Conclave are in a comparatively microscopic minority.

[Lawmonark]

2 hours ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Having frames available in both modes is fair, as long as the effort is the same.

But what OP proposes is Conclave-only frames. Which is not cool.

Not a conclave only frame, but a frame you aquire via conclave.

[_DapperDanMan_]

Your argument might have the slightest bit of validation if the game wasn't designed as a PVE game at it's core. 

Not to mention, more players prefer Archwing over Conclave.

Let that sink in.

3 hours ago, Krhymez said:

Since conclave players MUST play pve to get warframes, weapons and endo.... Why not make a frame that can only be acquired via Conclave.

 

[Inarticulate]

2 hours ago, Blade_Wolf_16 said:

People are forced to play Spy missions to get Ivara, even if they don't like it. Same with Atlas and Archwing. Nidus and Infested Salvage. Saryn and Rathuum.

All PvE modes (arguably excluding Trials) are considered part of the main game. As such, it is fair game to put anything linked to game progression behind any of these game modes.

Currently, the only things that are exclusive to Trials and Conclave are cosmetics (which aren't linked to game progression), Conclave-specific mods (which cannot be used in PvE anyways), Arcane Enhancements (which are "nice to have" at best and aren't linked to game progression), and Spring-Loaded Broadhead (seriously wtf mate?).

 

Allowing boss-dropped Warframes to be obtainable through Conclave is not a bad idea. Implementing a Warframe that can only be obtained through Conclave is a bad idea.

[FollowTheFaceless]

[Loxyen]

5 hours ago, LordMidnightX said:

I would say most all players got into the game based on the pve initially anyway. 

Not rly.. more like quite a lot of pvp 'only' players quit, because pve was wrecking their nerves. You can't acquire tons of stuff without pve. Some just came for pvp, but quit because of pve. Others already achieved everything in pve, then went up the stairs in pvp and finally quit, because pve wasn't tempting anymore and pvp got far to little love over the years.

[Xarteros]

4 minutes ago, Loxyen said:

Not rly.. more like quite a lot of pvp 'only' players quit, because pve was wrecking their nerves. You can't acquire tons of stuff without pve. Some just came for pvp, but quit because of pve. Others already achieved everything in pve, then went up the stairs in pvp and finally quit, because pve wasn't tempting anymore and pvp got far to little love over the years.

That's fine. This is a PvE game, not a PvP game. If people come here solely for the PvP and dislike the PvE, they know where the door is. It's not feasible to add the entire game's worth of content to PvP and also somehow magically balance it all.

If people want to whine about being "forced" to play PvE to get things, then why not whine in a creative sense? Why stoop to forcing other players to play PvP when you can just think of ways to make PvP easier to focus on? Maybe Teshin could have "Specter" versions of each frame/weapon that you can earn, that are conclave-only shadows of their original and can't be used in PvE. What's that, you want to complain about needing to farm endo? Instead of complaining, how about thinking up suggestions to add endo to Conclave as a reliable reward, or adding in some other way of improving your Conclave mods. 

Conclave people, go make posts suggesting improvements, instead of trying to make literally the rest of the entire community hate you.
 

5 hours ago, demoxis said:

-snip-

It would be kind of cool and give many of us an objective in conclave again. 

Adding objectives to Conclave is great, but not this. I'm all for DE spending time improving aspects that only a minority use. I don't like Archwing, but I know some people do, and I want DE to continue working on it. Who knows, maybe eventually Conclave will actually be fun for the majority of the community (severely doubt it, due to the large hate for PvP in general). I for one feel that Lunaro was a nice step in the right direction; having to balance everything separately just to have PvP combat is wasteful, all PvP modes should have been made like Lunaro (Doesn't need any frames or weapons, just needs your skill, which is the entire thematic point of Conclave). If Conclave should have had a direct Tenno versus Tenno challenge, it should be more of a competition (who can score the most kills, or sneak the best, or hack the fastest etc) rather than washed-down combat with rehashed abilities and no mods. Thematically, Conclave doesn't make any sense as a training exercise, since we're not training with our true powers or weapons.

So many people aren't even considering is how bad the lag is for heaps of people in conclave, and how dead the matches are otherwise. "But Xar, having more reason to play conclave means more people will be playing it, and the matches will be ok". No, no it doesn't. As soon as PvE players get what they need, they will be gone. There'll be a big rush at the start, and the extra players will slow to a trickle. I have yet to EVER once get into a full Lunaro match, bar the initial launch rush when it first came out. I have yet to EVER see more than three people in an Annihilation or Team Annihilation, bar the Snowday event. 

The most I've seen is when two randoms joined my friend and I, and that basically sums up my entire PvP public matchmaking experience (meaning that normally, at best, one other person joins my friend and I whilst we do our challenges). How are people supposed to farm this new Warframe if they don't have any friends to cheese it with, and don't luck-into having decent teams? Like, we're not even talking about lag yet. Basically as soon as I join someone who isn't from my town, games like Lunaro or Annihilation become impossibly laggy. How are people meant to farm for this new Warframe when the lag issues are a massively widespread issue amongst the community? Some games of Lunaro are ruined as soon as one person has joined, and there's at least a 3-second delay on all throwing/catching/checking actions, so I can never actually do anything (Go to throw the ball, two seconds later find out it was knocked out of my hands before it registered the throw).

You can either open up your matches to people of any ping, or you can limit your matches to reasonable ping and never find other players. Either way, you're screwed. 
How is that a good idea? Tell me now, I'm curious.
 

[(XBOX)Tylers Legend]

Conclave should receive gear, but not sure like this, I think it's best to just give us skins for exclusives and not locked gear behind conclave.

The easiest most non-hurtful way I see conclave receiving more gear is to reward us bps and building components to upgrade our arsenal, not giving us exclusive gear. Balancing out rewards for Conclave and PvE is needed. The only gear that should stay exclusive to PvE are primes(This could also change in time).

The only way I see it being fine is if it was a quest within Conclave, it could be introduced along with PvP intercept, win or lose you can progress through the quest, but winning and losing would just have different experiences doing the quest.

But Overall, I think it's best to give PvE and PvP equal opportunity to obtain gear, not locking it behind one another.

 

 

To the players saying it's a PvE game, you are 100% incorrect. Conclave and any stats that can be used to put players against each other would have to be deleted for this game to be a PvE game. Not going to happen, that would stunt DEs growths.

Most of the content involve PvE, that is true.

Edited January 18, 2017 by (XB1)Tylers Legend

[Loxyen]

2 hours ago, Xarteros said:

If people want to whine about being "forced" to play PvE to get things, then why not whine in a creative sense?

Who said they were whining? They just said what they don't like, quit and never touched it again, supporting other games now.

Are you talking about pve only players whining about pvp? Because thats what reality looked like the last years. Nobody forced them. But they did in the most uncreative ways.

Having pvp in the game isn't necessarily a bad thing. E.g. it helps you to improve your own skill set.

2 hours ago, Xarteros said:

Maybe Teshin could have "Specter" versions of each frame/weapon that you can earn, that are conclave-only shadows of their original and can't be used in PvE.

pvp is called pvp, because it is "player versus player".

I don't want to step on DE's feet... but e.g. I didn't start playing Conclave and stayed there for years, because the pve AI is that much of a challenge.

I guess improving the AI to be challenging under Conclave rules would take quite a bit of effort and time. Not sure if DE is willing to take it. (e.g. basic movement pattern etc.)

 

Also I never said Warframes main focus should be on pvp. But I definitely draw the attention to the facts I mentioned, because it is happening and I don't believe that everyone is aware of it.

Having at least a small pvp Dev team now shows that DE recognized the potential with the pvp side of their game. (y)

 

A Conclave themed Warframe would be neat. Available through pvp only? Probably not, but what is with Rathuum and the Index? Or maybe some 'former Solar Rail War similar stuff' under the new and actually balanced pvp circumstances? If it is coupled with a quest then participating in one round of the real deal wouldn't hurt either for staying lore friendly.

Having a Conclave skin for every weapon or maybe every Warframe would be great too.

There was quite a decent amount of threads and suggestions about 'pve similar pvp gamemodes'...

However there are still more urgent things to work on and like I said the team is small.

 

2 hours ago, Xarteros said:

What's that, you want to complain about needing to farm endo? Instead of complaining, how about thinking up suggestions to add endo to Conclave as a reliable reward, or adding in some other way of improving your Conclave mods. 

Partial this is a thing already.

 

2 hours ago, Xarteros said:

Conclave people, go make posts suggesting improvements, instead of trying to make literally the rest of the entire community hate you.

What are you talking about? ppl are doing this since idk the beginning of Conclave? And the answers were the same every time. Most likely all they had suggested was 'just wrong'/bad/toxic/will make Warframe a pure pvp game on instant/or whatever ppl used as badmouth excuse.

Can't remember anyone who said Warframe should be a pvp only game, or at least DE should draw their main attention to it.

I agree Warframe is a game with a huge major pve aspect. However this does not mean that pvp and the pvp community (the ppl who actually play it and try to help DE improving it) should get instant hate without a reason. A change of mind set would be much appreciated.

The circle closes.

Edited January 18, 2017 by Loxyen

[(XBOX)Tylers Legend]

@Xarteros

Converting PvE players to PvP is not the only focus.

We want PvP only players to stay, with little ability to progress through the game within PvP, their experience is being killed. Giving us the option to earn gear in PvP will not hurt any players of PvE, locking gear behind it as a PvP player I agree currently isn't a good idea.

I am near Mastery 18 and it always haunts me to see low mastery PvP players in Conclave with mostly beginner gear, these players will either start playing PvE with hate or leave the game entirely, they would most likely leave the game. We don't want this, do we? You lose potential PvE players and DE loses community growth.

Edited January 18, 2017 by (XB1)Tylers Legend

[AdunSaveMe]

7 hours ago, Krhymez said:

Not a conclave only frame, but a frame you aquire via conclave.

Semantics. 

[Xarteros]

7 hours ago, Loxyen said:

Who said they were whining? They just said what they don't like, quit and never touched it again, supporting other games now.

Are you talking about pve only players whining about pvp? Because thats what reality looked like the last years. Nobody forced them. But they did in the most uncreative ways.

Sorry, a lot of that sounded like it was aimed directly at you. The first sentence was, the rest was more of a generalised argument against the broader PvP community.

I hear heaps and heaps of unending whining in-game and on forums from PvP players who don't want to play PvE at all. Sure, some people have just silently quit, and that's fine. It's a free to play game, and if it doesn't suit a player, they shouldn't keep playing or even consider spending money. I'm not talking about them, I'm just talking about the people who stick around and whinge that it's unfair to be 'forced' to play PvE in an entirely PvE-focused game.
 

7 hours ago, Loxyen said:

Having pvp in the game isn't necessarily a bad thing. E.g. it helps you to improve your own skill set.

pvp is called pvp, because it is "player versus player".

I don't want to step on DE's feet... but e.g. I didn't start playing Conclave and stayed there for years, because the pve AI is that much of a challenge.

I guess improving the AI to be challenging under Conclave rules would take quite a bit of effort and time. Not sure if DE is willing to take it. (e.g. basic movement pattern etc.)

As I said, PvP is never a bad thing, it's good to have modes for different players to enjoy. What I'm saying is that players shouldn't be complaining about it, and just be suggesting new and improved ideas about how to make it better. You don't go to a doctor and scream "it hurts!" over and over without actually telling them where it hurts; the doctor needs to know where the problem is before they can fix it.

I think you completely missed my point about "Specter" versions of warframes and weapons. I'm not talking about the PvE AI. Nowhere did I mention that. I'm talking about 'clones' of all the standard equipment that PvP players can earn easily through Conclave, but can't use in PvE (so, you can buy a "Specter Frost" that unlocks Frost for use in your Conclave matches, but you can't run Frost in normal PvE missions until you build/buy him properly). I'm literally just suggesting a way for PvP players to easily get whatever gear they need to enjoy the different weapons/warframes without having to grind PvE at all. This is literally a suggestion to resolve the issue most PvP-focused Warframe players have. 

7 hours ago, Loxyen said:

Also I never said Warframes main focus should be on pvp. But I definitely draw the attention to the facts I mentioned, because it is happening and I don't believe that everyone is aware of it.

Having at least a small pvp Dev team now shows that DE recognized the potential with the pvp side of their game. (y)

I never accused you of saying Warframe's main focus was PvP... It's clearly not the main focus, and nobody could ever honestly make that argument, considering how the sheer amount of PvE content dwarfs that of the PvP content.

 

7 hours ago, Loxyen said:

A Conclave themed Warframe would be neat. Available through pvp only? Probably not, but what is with Rathuum and the Index? Or maybe some 'former Solar Rail War similar stuff' under the new and actually balanced pvp circumstances? If it is coupled with a quest then participating in one round of the real deal wouldn't hurt either for staying lore friendly.

Having a Conclave skin for every weapon or maybe every Warframe would be great too.

There was quite a decent amount of threads and suggestions about 'pve similar pvp gamemodes'...

However there are still more urgent things to work on and like I said the team is small.

A Conclave-themed warframe is actually a horrible, illogical idea. The Conclave is where Tenno go to train themselves for real combat. It's not something that merits a specific Warframe at all. It's like trying to argue that your professional racing bike should have training wheels. When you're out of the conclave, fighting in real missions, the training wheels are meant to be off. To the barest extent, you could make an honour-themed swordsman/samurai to fill the niche, and tie it in thematically, but it makes no sense to directly theme any frame around a training arena.

7 hours ago, Loxyen said:

What are you talking about? ppl are doing this since idk the beginning of Conclave? And the answers were the same every time. Most likely all they had suggested was 'just wrong'/bad/toxic/will make Warframe a pure pvp game on instant/or whatever ppl used as badmouth excuse.

Can't remember anyone who said Warframe should be a pvp only game, or at least DE should draw their main attention to it.

I agree Warframe is a game with a huge major pve aspect. However this does not mean that pvp and the pvp community (the ppl who actually play it and try to help DE improving it) should get instant hate without a reason. A change of mind set would be much 

Sure, people have been making improvement idea threads since Conclave came out. I'm saying that all the people in this thread, and similar threads, who aren't supplying any constructive ideas should leave, and actually post suggestions instead of complaining about how unfair they feel the system is.

All you're doing is misinterpreting my argument, or making deliberate strawman arguments. Nowhere have I accused anyone of claiming that Warframe is PvP focused. As I've said, and also repeated, I'm all for Conclave being a thing. I don't like it, nor do I like Archwing, but I think it's good to attract more players who can enjoy different parts of the game. What I'm against, however, is people simply arguing that PvP should get something properly exclusive (like a Warframe) just because they dislike how much PvE they have to play. It's a bad argument, it's a bad idea, it's bad rationalisation, and all it's doing is making everyone angry or concerned.
 

[AlphaPHENIX]

The momemnt I saw the title of this thread I already knew how everyone would reply, however I agree.

[(PSN)JTmothertcker]

No.  Conclave is a completely different game from the rest of Warframe , I and people like me have already had to give up on ever getting the skins/syandana (but that's just a cosmetic thing so no real loss).