M-Alad V and Sortie salt

[p3z1]

Sortie #3, kill Mutalist Alad V while enemies are enhanced with puncture damage (meaning they also resist IPS damage).

Rant

Spoiler

This is bullS#&$. Mutalist Alad V having a OHK attack that hits the entire room once his collar is removed. Burning half of his shields makes him wear the collar again. This sortie is unable to be finished solo because of the OHKs and the S#&$ty health point wall, while our shields are just a second health, useless. So he's practically unkillable, and can OHK you. And what do we get after all of this (duo with bro, after persuading him to play again), 2k endo. 2k @(*()$ ENDO, THIS IS BULLS#&$

Rant end.

Seriously, shield gating should be a thing. If enemies have health gates, why can't we?

Second, room cleaner OHKs shouldn't be a thing, NEVER. FFS imagine getting wiped out just because someone farted which affected everyone in A WIDE ROOM. I don't even know when M Alad V got that S#&$ty skill, but that thing needs to go, PRONTO.

Third, sortie token system. It's not a want, it's a need. Ever tried farming for something useful, nope, 2k endo. 1 week, 7 2k endo. If I need endo, I'd do something else (ODS Nekros, because we need Nekros for farming mutagen samples).

Fourth, fix M Alad V. OHKs and small "ability to damage a target" window shouldn't be a thing, coupled with being fully armored, having shields, and having an escort of Parasitics and Venomous Eximi. This sortie was a joke, and shows how DEvs don't balance well.

With Sorties showing how S#&$ty enemies can be, I have very, VERY bad expectations for Damage 3.0, and being dependent on enemy "weak spots" and "proper timing."

Oh, for those who would say "Sorties are endgame, they should be tough," why have S#&$ty rewards like 2k endo (which shouldn't even be there), 3x nitain (buff nitain alerts damnit), and forma (those should be given out by 3s, not by 1s, what is this, Void Keys all over again)?

For those saying "It's RNG," its bullS#&$ RNG, weighted to the S#&$tier rewards (look it up, 2k endo weighs more than rivens combined, and both are common).

For those saying "Just skip it, the game isn't forcing you," then why make a sortie system in the first place. What is it, Navigation Panel Display?

[Jackviator]

5 minutes ago, p3z1 said:

Third, sortie token system. It's not a want, it's a need.

Yup.

Still gonna keep spreading the word, even if it takes years. :P

[Chewarette]

I don't even know what kind of "OHK" AoE attack you're talking about. We killed him yesterday without any effort, and nobody died. Hell I'm not even sure anyone dropped by one HP ?

I'd suggest you avoid the forum when you're obviously angry. Because you're just flooding the forum with some impossible-to-read complaint based on " S#&$ " stuff.

So yeah,  S#&$  the  S#&$  because  S#&$ S#&$ is  S#&$, yeah, that's not really interesting to read.

And I'm part of the "No" to Token system as well but I'll not discuss it there as this topic is complete nonsense anyway.

[Naftal]

I soloed and just one-shot him with Lanka after removing his armor.

[LuckyCharm]

I did this and got a lens. >.< Fight lasted about 20 minutes with constant downs, revives, and mass irradiating disarm spam. 

The hardest part of this was finding him in the middle of all that swarm moa spam on top of mutalist osprey poison on top of poorly lit tilesets.

Even with a waypoint marker on him it was very hard to tell him apart because hes the size of all the rest of the infested. and shorter than ancients

 

[chaotea]

24 minutes ago, p3z1 said:

Seriously, shield gating should be a thing. If enemies have health gates, why can't we?

Use poison perhaps? Or proc magnetic.

[Zornito]

5 minutes ago, p3z1 said:

Sortie #3, kill Mutalist Alad V while enemies are enhanced with puncture damage (meaning they also resist IPS damage).

Rant

  Reveal hidden contents

This is bullS#&amp;&#036;. Mutalist Alad V having a OHK attack that hits the entire room once his collar is removed. Burning half of his shields makes him wear the collar again. This sortie is unable to be finished solo because of the OHKs and the S#&amp;&#036;ty health point wall, while our shields are just a second health, useless. So he's practically unkillable, and can OHK you. And what do we get after all of this (duo with bro, after persuading him to play again), 2k endo. 2k @(*()&#036; ENDO, THIS IS BULLS#&amp;&#036;

Rant end.

Seriously, shield gating should be a thing. If enemies have health gates, why can't we?

Second, room cleaner OHKs shouldn't be a thing, NEVER. FFS imagine getting wiped out just because someone farted which affected everyone in A WIDE ROOM. I don't even know when M Alad V got that S#&amp;&#036;ty skill, but that thing needs to go, PRONTO.

Third, sortie token system. It's not a want, it's a need. Ever tried farming for something useful, nope, 2k endo. 1 week, 7 2k endo. If I need endo, I'd do something else (ODS Nekros, because we need Nekros for farming mutagen samples).

Fourth, fix M Alad V. OHKs and small "ability to damage a target" window shouldn't be a thing, coupled with being fully armored, having shields, and having an escort of Parasitics and Venomous Eximi. This sortie was a joke, and shows how DEvs don't balance well.

With Sorties showing how S#&amp;&#036;ty enemies can be, I have very, VERY bad expectations for Damage 3.0, and being dependent on enemy "weak spots" and "proper timing."

Oh, for those who would say "Sorties are endgame, they should be tough," why have S#&amp;&#036;ty rewards like 2k endo (which shouldn't even be there), 3x nitain (buff nitain alerts damnit), and forma (those should be given out by 3s, not by 1s, what is this, Void Keys all over again)?

For those saying "It's RNG," its bullS#&amp;&#036; RNG, weighted to the S#&amp;&#036;tier rewards (look it up, 2k endo weighs more than rivens combined, and both are common).

For those saying "Just skip it, the game isn't forcing you," then why make a sortie system in the first place. What is it, Navigation Panel Display?

Sorties reward are weird for late game missions. It should be RNG, because you need bad and good rewards, but like rivens, the random factor is too present to be enjoyable.

Some reward rarity should be also rescaled: 1 Forma in rare is...no.

Somethin like:

Common: 

Blank Lens (yo choose the school).3k endo.Forma.3 hours Boosters --> Even common rewards bring a little smile

Uncommon: 

Rivens. Blank Greater Lens. 5k endo.(half a riven, not bad).

Rare:

3 Forma, Catalyst/Reactor (bp or made). Endo Boosters (if you are dedicated, can transform into a nice amount.

Legendary core still being here.

Sorties token are too simple imo. Basically you just farm items through sorties. No randomness isn't really rewarding tbh. A simple PRG system could a bit for a start...

[Zornito]

Balance is another story, whle I think Shield is quite easily taken care of with Magnetic and Poison damage. 

 

Mobs massivity and damage are more of an issue imo.

[Cray]

Rotten Salad's fight is definitely not balanced for sorties.

 

I've been trying to solo him with Loki. His attacks are literally ignoring invisibility and killing me outright, no matter where I am, so long as he has line of sight. And it's during those attacks that he's vulnerable!

Edited January 20, 2017 by DeltaPhantom

[(PSN)B0XMAN517]

 

 

[(XBOX)Dyalar]

Since you decided to be blunt and hyperbolic in your post, I'll do the same.

He was hard to kill because you took the wrong frame and weapons.  The room clearing OHKO happened because you took the wrong frame and weapons.  The Sortie token system idea is a bad idea, and it's proven by the fact that every proponent of it moans about "never" getting a Riven mod - meaning you want tokens to purely guarantee the rate at which you gain Riven mods.  Nobody ever complains about not getting any of the other rewards from the Sortie (except maybe legendary cores).  You don't want tokens, you want guaranteed Riven mods. 

Edited January 20, 2017 by (XB1)Dyalar

[Jackviator]

4 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Dyalar said:

You don't want tokens, you want guaranteed Riven mods. 

Or lenses for schools we actually use. Or boosters. Or an Exilus adapter. Or Orokin Catalysts/Reactors. Or even Endo if we're running low.

Sure, people would buy lots of Rivens, but a lot of people would benefit from those other things as well. That also just means that if the token system is implemented Rivens need to be a tad costly, token-wise. (3-6 tokens, perhaps?)

[(XBOX)Dyalar]

17 minutes ago, Jackviator said:

Or lenses for schools we actually use. Or boosters. Or an Exilus adapter. Or Orokin Catalysts/Reactors. Or even Endo if we're running low.

 

I will consider agreeing with you if you can show me a post where someone complains about never getting the rewards you listed there, or getting too many Riven mods.  Seriously, just read through the responses to the thread you linked.

[deothor]

@p3z1 Sortie aside, whole Mutalist Salad V boss is badly made.

 

99% time invincibility? Cowardy nature, that runs away? And S#&amp;&#036;ton of health? And quite decent damage aswell?

He belongs to badly designed bosses along with Sedna boss and Tyl regor.

[enizer]

2 hours ago, (Xbox One)Dyalar said:

I will consider agreeing with you if you can show me a post where someone complains about never getting the rewards you listed there, or getting too many Riven mods.  Seriously, just read through the responses to the thread you linked.

Funny enough, I got nothing but lenses and orokin reactors as a reward for two weeks straight recently, and I already have 7 of every lens, with me not really lacking focus at all, and.. yeah, I have 27 orokin reactors built, with no frame really needing one.
I would however have had use for the ENDO everyone complains about getting.
I'm already kind of bored of riven mods, just, do the math on the number of weapons, and it becomes obvious that my chance of getting one for a weapon I actually enjoy using is just too small to bother getting my hopes up.

I'm again, doing the sortie for the daily non-effortless mission, rewards are very meh.

On the Alad sortie boss yesterday, damn, he was annoying, the only boss that downed people that fast before has been the hyena pack.
.. And I suspect I ended up doing 90% of my teams damage on him, by simply stacking slash and gas procs from a 100% status chance Tigris Prime, at no point ever did his shield go down to 0.

Edited January 20, 2017 by enizer

[p3z1]

9 hours ago, Jackviator said:

Yup.

Still gonna keep spreading the word, even if it takes years. :P

Preach.

9 hours ago, Chewarette said:

I don't even know what kind of "OHK" AoE attack you're talking about. We killed him yesterday without any effort, and nobody died. Hell I'm not even sure anyone dropped by one HP ?

I'd suggest you avoid the forum when you're obviously angry. Because you're just flooding the forum with some impossible-to-read complaint based on " S#&amp;&#036; " stuff.

So yeah,  S#&amp;&#036;  the  S#&amp;&#036;  because  S#&amp;&#036; S#&amp;&#036; is  S#&amp;&#036;, yeah, that's not really interesting to read.

And I'm part of the "No" to Token system as well but I'll not discuss it there as this topic is complete nonsense anyway.

So if you(r team) could beat him easy, then everyone should have an easy time as well? I did say I did it solo/duo, not with a 4-man team.

9 hours ago, (Xbox One)Dyalar said:

Since you decided to be blunt and hyperbolic in your post, I'll do the same.

He was hard to kill because you took the wrong frame and weapons.  The room clearing OHKO happened because you took the wrong frame and weapons.  The Sortie token system idea is a bad idea, and it's proven by the fact that every proponent of it moans about "never" getting a Riven mod - meaning you want tokens to purely guarantee the rate at which you gain Riven mods.  Nobody ever complains about not getting any of the other rewards from the Sortie (except maybe legendary cores).  You don't want tokens, you want guaranteed Riven mods. 

Oh look, this comment. Consider that the reward table doesn't contain only endo and rivens. There's 4k endo, which is a hell of a lot better than 2k endo. There's also boosters, and i want a resource booster for farming, and affinity booster for, well, affinity. Rivens are fine and dandy, albeit too random. I don't want guaranteed rivens, I want a reward system that actually feels rewarding.

[Chewarette]

28 minutes ago, p3z1 said:

So if you(r team) could beat him easy, then everyone should have an easy time as well? I did say I did it solo/duo, not with a 4-man team.

Never said something like that.

I just said that we went to kill him, and he never did an aoe that OS'd everyone as you described. And the fight was still kinda long as we cannot bypass his invulnerabilty phase until he gets his collar off.

[JalakBali]

13 hours ago, DeltaPhantom said:

Rotten Salad's fight is definitely not balanced for sorties.

 

I've been trying to solo him with Loki. His attacks are literally ignoring invisibility and killing me outright, no matter where I am, so long as he has line of sight. And it's during those attacks that he's vulnerable!

Why are you trying to solo a level 100 boss with a wide AoE on a squishy frame?

 

"Guys! I demand my low health low armor frame be able to kill every single thing in the game, by myself, and they cannot see me!" *5 minutes later* "WHY IS THIS GAME SO EASY WHERE IS THE CHALLENGE??"

[Cray]

51 minutes ago, JalakBali said:

Why are you trying to solo a level 100 boss with a wide AoE on a squishy frame?

 

"Guys! I demand my low health low armor frame be able to kill every single thing in the game, by myself, and they cannot see me!" *5 minutes later* "WHY IS THIS GAME SO EASY WHERE IS THE CHALLENGE??"

The toxicity is palpable, and you don't understand what I'm complaining about.

 

There is a difference between challenge and ridiculous cheese. Rotten Salad has the latter, and I eventually resorted to countering with my own cheese. This is not good game design.

Edited January 21, 2017 by DeltaPhantom

[p3z1]

4 hours ago, Chewarette said:

Never said something like that.

I just said that we went to kill him, and he never did an aoe that OS'd everyone as you described. And the fight was still kinda long as we cannot bypass his invulnerabilty phase until he gets his collar off.

Well, I assumed such, my bad.

Either way, yes, I got OHK'd quite a couple of times. Using Loki/Prime, Valkyr, and a buffed up trinity prime. All were subject to such.

50 minutes ago, JalakBali said:

Why are you trying to solo a level 100 boss with a wide AoE on a squishy frame?

 

"Guys! I demand my low health low armor frame be able to kill every single thing in the game, by myself, and they cannot see me!" *5 minutes later* "WHY IS THIS GAME SO EASY WHERE IS THE CHALLENGE??"

Because one is supposed to be able to actually take cover, even when using a squishy frame. If his OHK can actually kill you THROUGH cover, then something's wrong (just like napalms).

[Cortanis]

15 hours ago, Chewarette said:

 

I don't even know what kind of "OHK" AoE attack you're talking about. We killed him yesterday without any effort, and nobody died. Hell I'm not even sure anyone dropped by one HP ?

 

I'll second this one. Not really all that hard at all. The fight isn't any different than when you normally fight him. He just has altered stats, but still pretty flimsy. I managed to blow away a third of him outright with Tigris Prime and that was just when he does the stupid bubble shield thing.

16 hours ago, p3z1 said:

Third, sortie token system. It's not a want, it's a need. Ever tried farming for something useful, nope, 2k endo. 1 week, 7 2k endo. If I need endo, I'd do something else (ODS Nekros, because we need Nekros for farming mutagen samples).

Yep, need token system already. It's one of the reasons why I'm STILL trying to get Latron Wraith parts since all I ever managed to get in that season were things I didn't need. God help me if I get another week strait of endo as well. I swear it'll give me a rage stroke at this point. It seems that they're going to be doing something about this particular one soon though. Not sure if the sculpture addition is really a proper fix. I like endo since I can max mods and then sell them, but the rate of acquisition is absurd.

16 hours ago, p3z1 said:

This sortie is unable to be finished solo

Now, let me also take the time to point out the obvious one here. Sorties were never designed to really be done solo. They're supposed to be high end gameplay that's geared to a skilled team play. Just because we're smart enough and overly skilled enough to do 90% of these content runs solo doesn't mean that we're supposed to. By all rights DE should see this and ramp up the difficulty when they see threads like this where people not only claim to have done them solo, but even manage to explain how. It's not really hard when you use the proper mix of skills and weapons, but the fact that we know how to is the problem. To put it simply and to the point, we've broken the content.

[p3z1]

1 hour ago, Cortanis said:

Now, let me also take the time to point out the obvious one here. Sorties were never designed to really be done solo. They're supposed to be high end gameplay that's geared to a skilled team play. Just because we're smart enough and overly skilled enough to do 90% of these content runs solo doesn't mean that we're supposed to. By all rights DE should see this and ramp up the difficulty when they see threads like this where people not only claim to have done them solo, but even manage to explain how. It's not really hard when you use the proper mix of skills and weapons, but the fact that we know how to is the problem. To put it simply and to the point, we've broken the content.

Great, more "Co-op gating" as I refer to it.

Whatever happened to "Skill-based gameplay?" Pretty sure the DEvs have spoken about this game being skill based and all. Having a next to undodgeable OHK that has a huge AoE really screams "No."

That, or as you stated, needs more than Skill, rather needs multiple players.

TBH, I am salty for not being able to do Trials (and missing out on Arcanes), but I really can't rant about that.

 

[JalakBali]

3 hours ago, DeltaPhantom said:

The toxicity is palpable, and you don't understand what I'm complaining about.

 

There is a difference between challenge and ridiculous cheese. Rotten Salad has the latter, and I eventually resorted to countering with my own cheese. This is not good game design.

What would be "good game design" then? Because if you designed a boss that can be solo-ed by a Loki, that thing would get crushed by other frames. Oh, you can extend this to "then it means Loki and other frames are not balanced thus not well designed!" and you'd be right. Are you supposed to counter cheese with cheese? Well, if the enemy is using paper, why shouldn't you use scissors? Insisting you should be able to use rock or another paper and that "skill" should overcome that is forgetting that scissors still exist, meaning with "skill", you end up with super scissors.

 

3 hours ago, p3z1 said:

Because one is supposed to be able to actually take cover, even when using a squishy frame. If his OHK can actually kill you THROUGH cover, then something's wrong (just like napalms).

No, when you're using a squishy frame, you're supposed to bring in support. This is why we have support frames and tanky frames. If everything can be mitigated by "cover" then there is no point in having tanky frames, because everything is doable if you just use cover, even with tiny health pool. Are the enemies cheesy as they're whittling down your health and not much you can do about it? Absolutely. Is it good design? No, it's not. Is there a better alternative? No. No one has been able to come up with a better solution that wouldn't break the rest of the game.

 

Just now, p3z1 said:

Great, more "Co-op gating" as I refer to it.

Whatever happened to "Skill-based gameplay?" Pretty sure the DEvs have spoken about this game being skill based and all. Having a next to undodgeable OHK that has a huge AoE really screams "No."

That, or as you stated, needs more than Skill, rather needs multiple players.

TBH, I am salty for not being able to do Trials (and missing out on Arcanes), but I really can't rant about that.

And this speaks about the mindset behind your logic. You wanted things to be doable solo, and not "Co-op gated". Trials were designed for players asking for large group gameplay. It's like asking why you're unable to play soccer by yourself. This is not a solo game like Mass Effect. Not a skill-based game like Dark Souls. You're expecting something to be what it's not. I'm not berating you. I'm just advising you that what you're asking for is futile.

[Cortanis]

1 hour ago, p3z1 said:

Great, more "Co-op gating" as I refer to it.

Whatever happened to "Skill-based gameplay?" Pretty sure the DEvs have spoken about this game being skill based and all. Having a next to undodgeable OHK that has a huge AoE really screams "No."

That, or as you stated, needs more than Skill, rather needs multiple players.

TBH, I am salty for not being able to do Trials (and missing out on Arcanes), but I really can't rant about that.

 

Partial answer to this is here.

1 hour ago, JalakBali said:

And this speaks about the mindset behind your logic. You wanted things to be doable solo, and not "Co-op gated". Trials were designed for players asking for large group gameplay. It's like asking why you're unable to play soccer by yourself. This is not a solo game like Mass Effect. Not a skill-based game like Dark Souls. You're expecting something to be what it's not. I'm not berating you. I'm just advising you that what you're asking for is futile.

However and more to the point, the engagement itself actually can be done solo, with multiple different frames, and it requires a bit of skill doing so. To the point, Salad V will also target specters for the collar throw. This will give you a window to hit him. The second window is when he does the aoe with the yellow bubble thing. If you have a weapon with punch through, you can hit him. Large burst damage weapons are the name of the game with this engagement in regards to Salad V himself.

Ether way, you have two options in this fight. Ether engage at range and out of the aoe zone. Much harder to do, but still fairly doable. Or you can beef tank it. Requires a good amount of HP on the frame, but you can get around the aoe damage with a good spamming of health pizzas. 

If you're engaging at range, you'll want to use solid SR type weapons and if you're using non hitscan rifles you'll need to be decent enough at reading his move sets so you can time your shots properly. Honestly, I'd really just suggest Lanka or Vectis Prime for this job. Ether stock Akstilettos or Pox as your secondary depending on frame and abilities. If you've got Zenistar, bring it and use it as a def buffer against the hoards. If not, bring whatever.

If you're going full on in face, you're going to want lots of HP and lots of pizzas. You'll also want to bring multiple specters too of different varieties. As I said before, he can also target the specters for the toilet seat throw. This beefs your odds of being able to lay into him. Bonus points here. If he's targeting you, you can actually use the gray crate things around him to block the throw and thus negate your personal time as the dummy bullet sponge. Anyway, your windows of damage are the throw and the bubble shield time on this like mentioned before. You'll need punch through weapons to get through the bubble though. I'd suggest using shotguns and preferably Tigris Prime with Seeking Fury on it. Otherwise, it's massive high ROF weapons or other burst fire with punch through weapons. I'd suggest Tigris Prime and Pox for this method though.

In both cases however, Ivara can cheese the stupidity out of this in that she can be invisible with prowl on and have the specters be targeted for the throws. Because of this, you can concentrate on crowd control with her and let the specters do their thing in distracting. Once he bubbles up or does the throw, you can full on let him have it to the face. In any event, keep dropping pizzas periodically so you have a constant stream of health recovery regardless of what happens.

 

I was trying to avoid the obvious statement here, but since you basically asked for it... Get good.

[-N7-Leonhart]

It was easy. Took like 3 mins, I never died and I didn't even had the toughest tank frame.