Quick Steel Event Feedback

[SenorClipClop]

It's interesting and I'm liking it so far. My one suggestion would be to lower the match time by a couple of minutes. Shorter matches would draw in and hold more players who are brand new to Conclave, because then they don't have to commit the next seven minutes of their lives to a match they know they'll loose. I for one am terrible at the mode, but I don't get salty if I lose, so my first matches I mostly spent learning the feel of the game between frequent deaths. Other, saltier players might not share this sentiment and will be quick to bash the game mode because they're bad at it, and so I believe lowering the player stakes by lowering the match time would help tame some of that fire and open the floor to more constructive discussion.

Edited February 3, 2017 by SenorClipClop

[Helljack84]

So, now we have some juicy rewards.

Very grindy. Still laggy as hell. Awful melee. Rewards macro spamming.

Didn't find a single game for the sigil, now things are heating up. Hacks/artificial Lag still working fine...fun game.

If one thing it made me like conclave a lot less. I wouldn't even care about it's existence but all the shoehorned gamemodes annoy me to no end.

[Sashmaul]

All this alert has done for me is dislike conclave more than i did. 

I think it is a shame that to get these unique items I need to play this mode. 

I dont enjoy this alert and will resent having to do it to get these items as this is not fun for me. 

I do however understand that they wish to promote this mode but i know i will never play it again once I get the rewards, that is if i dont get sick of it before getting the rewards. 

[Nazrethim]

10 hours ago, Mattoropael said:

Think about why people even WANT to AFK in the first place.

Lazy people who can't aim or even move without dying when out of their super cheese build? Seriously, so far afk'ers are the most obnoxious people around, both on pve missions and conclave matches.

10 hours ago, Mattoropael said:

DE, if this gamemode you're trying so hard to shove down our throats is any fun, people would tend to truly participate. When people are actively looking for AFK/kill-trade parties to get the grind over with, what you need to do is more than just "I'm not letting you go AFK and get points now".

Gamemode it's entirely optional. It is Fun, I had tons of hilarious deaths/kills on it. You look for ways to cheese the game, you don't play, you cheese. DE did right to make sure players would be playing the mode instead of milling about doing nothing.

10 hours ago, Mattoropael said:

Players at large dislike or flat-out hate Conclave. Every time I go on Region or any off-game Warframe community, the opinion is overwhelmingly against Conclave's very existence and many wonder why you're pouring resources and time into it at all. Before you try to shove it down our throats, make Conclave palatable first, because right now it is evidently anything but.

For no good reason. Because the whole crowd that apreciates conclave it's on Discord? or perhaps because those who like Conclave are in general reserved about it, unlike a bunch of bigots who can't stand others getting nice things they don't like? DE is right on pouring resources into it, good stuff comes from Conclave. Again, entirely optional, and Conclave is a Fun and Challenging mode that focuses on skill rather than cheese.

10 hours ago, Mattoropael said:

There is also this little problem where most people play Warframe for the PvE, not this shoehorned PvP mode that's been so extensively modified it manages to a) barely resemble Warframe at all and b) still vastly inferior to any true and popular PvP shooter game out there that we all have easy access to.

A) It's a Variant, designed to be a special mode, regular non-variant concalve matches are what PvE would be if enemies required skill to actually defeat.  B) You can't really compare to other PvP shooters  because Warframe PvP is unique, mostly because it's still Warframe.

9 hours ago, Chewarette said:

It's because, as the OP said, this game mode doesn't look like Warframe at all. It is slow as hell and your Warframe doesn't matter as you can't use spells and everything is normalized. This game mode is not Warframe. It's the same kind of thing as Flappy Zephyr : Great to spend 2 minutes, but the day they decide to put a unique reward for reaching the 50th step in Flappy Zephyr, a vast majority will be pissed out.

It's a Variant, a special gamemode, regular PvP is 100% Warframe.

9 hours ago, Chewarette said:

I want to play Warframe. So, sorry, but I definitely don't have more than one hour (and that's only for the first step !) to spend on this kind of game mode jumping around

2 hours survival in the Void is a better entertainment than 10 minutes of Quick Steel,

Ladies and gentlemen, this is what in my country (or any other) is called "Not making any godam sense"

9 hours ago, Chewarette said:

because you actually do something and are not completely bored looking for something to do / someone to kill / respawning.

Do something. So lets compare:

Survival: sit in one place and click.

alternative 1: sit in one place and mash a button

alternative 2: move around a bit while using a slidemacro/mashing a button/clicking

alternative 3 (rarely seen): using a non-cheese build, use all your mobility tools and aiming skills to engane enemy forces in high speed combat. only slowing down ocassionally on tactical positions for a couple of shots then resuming high speed action.

 

Conclave: use all your mobility tools in high speed action fights

alternative: use all your mobility tools ocassionaly slowing down on a tactical position to do some shooting/set up ambush then continue moving.

 

Yeah, I totally get your point. Actual fights are boring compared to the ultimate fun: sitting in one place mashing one button or clicking.

[Lowe_Amsel]

EDITED:

After discussing my distaste with a friend of mine and going back and forth on Conclave in general, I tried this mode again and actually found it to be moderately enjoyable.  The lag and bad connection is still a problem but those aside, (DE if you want Conclave to improve it needs dedicated hosting servers) I actually finished the event without much frustration.  

Edited February 12, 2017 by Lowe_Amsel

[Kratier]

like UGHH ive never had a more stressful time with warframe

the hit detection is like ALL OVER THE PLACE MAN

and i just died to someone who i was 50 feet above, he meleed the ground, and i died to that. yeah.

and theres times where im standing next to someone meleeing them repeatedly they dont get hurt at all, then i get hit with 1 melee attack and die instantly

and you guys dont even show ping, so i dont know WTF is going on with the lag, is your netcode this bad for all PVP? why is it so bad? soooo bad.

[Theiyre]

I kinda enjoy the conclave variant, but I am mostly playing it for the rewards.  Today I logged on and started playing, but quickly found it a hot mess as the first 2 games I had more than 3 host migrations each, both games ending up in a lost connection and me losing out on my points towards the reward today.  This is extremely frustrating seeing as I was in top 3 both times (which is rare because I suck at pvp) and I was not rewarded my points (or even 1 for participating).  The gamemode has so many people ragequitting it is currently impossible for me to get the reward.  What am I to do?

[Endorphinz]

The net code does definitely favor certain connections. Certain laggy players will always easily dominate because the game will register hits much more easily compared to others. For instance, on their side, it seems as if players are stopping in place frequently, and landing hits on them while they are stopped will register a hit, even if the player's actual position is already elsewhere.

[Sannidor]

Suffer through it like most of us, sigil is nice enough to waste spent time in the event. 

[Vyrn]

For the most part, hit detection is fine. Wonky hitboxes, however, can be a problem.

With how quickly we can move, having even 1/5th of a second delay is very noticeable. That's part of why lag is a very common complaint. If you're having a really laggy match, just leave when you can and join another.

As for hitting someone repeatedly, did he just spawn in? There is spawn immunity for a few seconds that breaks if the player attacks or uses an ability.

You can view ping by enabling 'Show FPS" in the HUD section of your settings.

[SirWorm]

Quick punishing PvP mode sounds fun, but this is not it. Reasons follow:

• All kills are mess or cheapshots
• No tells, awful feedback. Hikou hits are almost invisible, you have guy after you throwing the stuff into your ass and you don't even know unless you die.
• Weird deaths - You die from guy that just started uninteruptable attack, you die from guy that just hit ground few metres away or from a guy that just flew by.
• Doing any melee attack in presence of multiple players is just suicide. You either attack, get locked in animation and die or you don't attack, somebody else attacks and you die. Either way you are dead.
• You can't do anything after being knocked down, timing is precisely enough for other player to attack again and not for you to stand up and react.
• Two attacks against each other are totally unpredictable. And often there is no alternative than attack and pray.
• Moves queue is mess, buffer windows are huge and you can't interrupt the attacks even before they start playing their animations. It's just real fun being locked in slam attacks nonstop.
• There is only way to use Hikou and it is to spam it nonstop in general direction. Only time your aim can actually make difference is when you are hitting somebody's back while he don't even know - see previous point.

The mod is too fast for it's own good, everything is fast so you have to act on reflex but it severely punishes you for rash attacks. There wasn't even single sweet moment when you just feel you nailed the hit because you knew what you were doing, just that attack finaly landed and killed somebody even if you were just doing the same thing all the time... But thanks for potatoes.

[KaizergidorahXi]

K.

This sounds more like ranting, not feedback.

Edited February 4, 2017 by KaizergidorahXi

[SirWorm]

Sorry, kinda angry after trying that for some time. It's just awful. I could probably try to make some constructive feedback but I don't think it's worth it. This mode is just ripe for scrapping as a failed experiment.

[MortalSword]

9 minutes ago, SirWorm said:

You can't do anything after being knocked down, timing is precisely enough for other player to attack again and not for you to stand up and react.

I agree with many of your points, but I find the opposite is true on this one. In my experience the animation for the slam takes longer than it takes the target to recover. I've often slammed someone, and been killed in response. 

[AandOE]

I hope they reduce the 25 Oro win to a 10 Oro win, because by the time someone gets 10, it's pretty clear what the ladder placement is going to be.

[GAZMANFOREVER]

 <RANT>It's not just me. About everyone in the clan says that it's trash. Hit detection is awful, servers cant handle a simple disconnect without kicking everyone out. And the worst part is if you are not spamming the same attack that everyone is spamming constantly, then you simply die. It doesn't matter if the guy you are fighting is 10 or 20 meters away. All he has to do is slam the ground and you are dead. And the conditions to get the prize are terrible. You need to play a lot harder in order to play less. WHY? If i hate the game mode i want to play less of it. The snowball fight had a good system. Play 3 matches and you are done. No 1st place=3points bullsht;.</RANT>

Edited February 4, 2017 by Sebi98

[SevenLetterKWord]

12 minutes ago, SirWorm said:

• All kills are mess or cheapshots

Yes, I'm sure every kill on you is a cheapshot.
Much like how everyone better than you is a tryhard, right?

Quote

• No tells, awful feedback. Hikou hits are almost invisible, you have guy after you throwing the stuff into your ass and you don't even know unless you die.

Have you tried playing with the HUD on?
It gives you this nice little thing I like to call the "health bar".

Alternatively, maybe you could try exercising some... environmental awareness?
How is it the game's fault that you let someone sneak up on you?

Quote

• Weird deaths - You die from guy that just started uninteruptable attack, you die from guy that just hit ground few metres away or from a guy that just flew by.

Excuse me if I don't trust your credibility enough to accept your claims without proof.

Quote

• Doing any melee attack in presence of multiple players is just suicide. You either attack, get locked in animation and die or you don't attack, somebody else attacks and you die. Either way you are dead.

Yes, and when I punch myself, it hurts.
That's how I learned to not punch myself.
So, why are you still slamming in the middle of melee brawls?

Quote

• You can't do anything after being knocked down, timing is precisely enough for other player to attack again and not for you to stand up and react.

The solution is to avoid getting knocked down in the first place, which is about as easy as pressing spacebar.

Quote

• Two attacks against each other are totally unpredictable. And often there is no alternative than attack and pray.

Depending on your aim and timing, you either hit or you miss. The same goes for your opponent.
It's not like either of you are transforming into whales or flower pots.

Let's not forget the obvious alternative of not attacking, and moving defensively instead.
Doesn't take a lot of creativity to imagine that one.

Quote

• Moves queue is mess, buffer windows are huge and you can't interrupt the attacks even before they start playing their animations. It's just real fun being locked in slam attacks nonstop.

Have you tried not spamming?

Quote

• There is only way to use Hikou and it is to spam it nonstop in general direction. Only time your aim can actually make difference is when you are hitting somebody's back while he don't even know - see previous point.

That's not even remotely true.
Aiming the Hikou is very important when punishing overextended players.

[JudgeXion]

I agree, it's so bad, it's a bit fun, but it's made so bad. 

Like I had direct hits with the slash 2-3 times in a row without hitting them and then miss with 10meters and kill them and it also dealt everything between like 10hp to OHKOs

[-Amaterasu-]

Pretty sure the slam needs to hit you in the head for it to be a OHKO since I've survived it before by just getting caught in the blast radius, still less frustrating than the snowball event I actually don't mind it too much although I've been blessed with not host migrations so there's that too.

[MortalSword]

I'm going to try to be as constructive as possible here, but it should be noted that I'm finding this mode extremely frustrating.


Quick Steel Feedback

- 10 minute rounds or 25 Oro cap is anything but quick. Majority of matches go to time.It is quite easy for someone to be put into the match late and ascend into top 3. Half the time, or roughly half the kill cap would make for much more reasonable experience.

- Inherent flaw in Oro system in a FFA DM mode. "Kill Confirmed" as many would call it isn't ideal for a free for all. There are many, many 1v1s that end in a simulkill, and also many that end in a group fight where the late comer gets 2+ free Oro for wandering into the fight late. This doesn't encourage intense sword/shuriken battles it encourages cherry picking. It also offers little reward to a player who demonstrates skill with long range throwing, in fact it punishes them because it will often feed another opponent the oro. 

- The nikana stance locks you into a long animation as your first attack unless sliding/jumping. Player mobility is so high it's not feasible to expect the average person to be able to reasonably time those hits and not get punished for trying.

- Slam attack does way too little damage for the trade offs, and the "knockdown" resolves itself faster than the strike animation, so the victim can usually counter before the attacker recovers.....which is absurd.

- 9 points for a cosmetic item was tedious but reasonable for someone not interested in Conclave normally, because passing on it had no gameplay impact. 12 points for a critical PVE reward? Come on. You are now asking for someone who is bad at Conclave to suffer through 2 hours of miserable experience to get a reward that they'd be foolish to turn down. This is the opposite of fun. This turns the event into a chore that must be done. So on one hand I applaud the inclusion of meaningful rewards, but not at the expectation of 1-2 hours of a bad time.

If this event was intended to encourage more people to try Conclave, it will only frustrate and deter all but the most dedicated. The second reward is so important to literally everyone but the most hardcore vet that they will feel obligated to grind it out.

I appreciate the effort to have a fun and interesting variant, but the investment is super high. Cutting match length in half would do a great deal of good, staggering more points based on placement would also help. Some sort of 3-2-1 payout on points would feel a lot better, especially considering how often someone sits on the bubble for the entire match only to have a single group engagement push one guy up into the top 3 and dreamcrushing someone else who had been performing at a mid level of skill. 

[Dwolfknight]

7 minutes ago, MortalSword said:

- Inherent flaw in Oro system in a FFA DM mode. "Kill Confirmed" as many would call it isn't ideal for a free for all. There are many, many 1v1s that end in a simulkill, and also many that end in a group fight where the late comer gets 2+ free Oro for wandering into the fight late. This doesn't encourage intense sword/shuriken battles it encourages cherry picking. It also offers little reward to a player who demonstrates skill with long range throwing, in fact it punishes them because it will often feed another opponent the oro. 

7

hehehe, I just remembered one match were I finished first with 16 oro and 4 kills

8 minutes ago, MortalSword said:

- The nikana stance locks you into a long animation as your first attack unless sliding/jumping. Player mobility is so high it's not feasible to expect the average person to be able to reasonably time those hits and not get punished for trying.

1

I disagree, I feel that it should punish even more the people that spam and it does a full 100 damage on hit meaning that if you hit it just right it's an insta-kill

[RIPjetHeros]

I don't particularly like this mode, for the following reasons:

1. movement speed seems a bit slow.

2. The slam attack is annoying, as it happens a lot when you don't want it to, and feels unnatural. Furthermore, this will inevitably leave you locked into an animation and open to attacks. Also, I've sometimes slammed people, had a second slam come out of nowhere, and gotten killed by the person I hit with the first slam.

3. The melee attacks queue up, so if you accidentally doubletap E then you're screwed, because you'll get locked into the slam attack.

4. You have to retrieve the Oro, which leads to people stealing credit for kills. Also, sometimes two people will kill each other with the slam attack at the same time, and a random person will come by and get 2 Oro for free.

5. It has a habit of switching you from 3rd place to 4th place because it registers kills that happen after Teshin says "this match is over"

6. The hikou is not fun to aim with. It has travel time, and doesn't have increased firerate, making it incredibly difficult to hit someone who is bullet jumping. This leads to overuse of melee, and the melee isn't that great.

7. If lag is present, the above problems are amplified to the point where you have no idea what's going on.

TL;DR

This variant is not "quick" steel, it's "slow slam attack animation" steel. 

That being said, I do like the idea of a nikana-shuriken conclave variant, but I feel that this isn't the most fun way to do it. It is a good start, though.

Edited February 4, 2017 by RIPjetHeros

[Coherent_Exile]

On 02/02/2017 at 10:40 AM, Thundervision said:

Bullet Jump right after getting up from knockdown -- helps a lot. Most players expect to finish you and have no idea you will jump above/over them to ground-slam them (DEATH FROM ABOVE. WHOOSH) -- also, one of those moments when an alt-fire of Hikou shines. Roll/Side-roll, Backflip in opposite direction can help as well, but these depend on situation and compared to Bullet Jump you're losing precious milliseconds for preparing-executing animation to avoid getting hit in time.

 

Remember that a so-lethal Nikana's attack is balanced by attack & recovery animation lock. More than this, it also registers a 2nd input if you melee again during attack animation, so said person is forced to perform another attack and thus becoming easy prey. Since the Quick Steel will attract more non-PvP players, they will most likely spam melee not expecting the consequences of it. And the more time it takes to take your opponent down the more players will engage your fight making it pretty risky to use a reckless regular Nikana attack at all (there is a great chance you won't even collect an Oro before getting killed).

 

Also, even though that Aerial and Slide attacks don't deal that much damage compared to regular attack, an Aerial attack can be used for an interception/finisher in mid-air with quick recovery from it.

The mode is more about parkour elements and knowledge of movements system.

Although there was an update changing some of my problems with the gamemode I still say that what was happening before was ridiculous. 

I'd try to double jump, roll away, bullet jump and so on to escape the person but they'd always manage to land near enough to me to knock me down in midair and then get to do another attack on me while I was knocked down.

Personally I find this gamemode boring, it removes the silly aspect from the snowball fight and removes the cool custom setups and builds of normal PvP. Chances are, unless it has something actually worth my time as a reward then i won't be playing again. 

[Sleeping_Insects]

Hello fellow Tenno!

I have played QS for a while, got a hang of it and I suppose I can give my feedback. To be clear, I've completed about 10 matches, at least in 4 of them I got the first place.

The first thing I should say I didn't enjoy any of those matches, even the ones I won. The reason is timing and momentum. So you've got really quick jumps and parkour moves, a bit slower pace hikou and REALLY slow nikana strikes. Now jumping and hikou shooting is fine by me. Some people might find hikous lack of accuracy irritating but I've found it challenging in a good way since you have to place your shots very precisely and not just spam. But anyway, Hikou is not the meat of the mode, it's a secondary, it feels that way and I'm pretty sure this is what DE had in mind.

Now, the elefant in the room here is Nikana strikes. They are very slow to say the least. Which kills any momentum, and what's worse is that you've got a snappy strike followed by a really long pause. So every strike is exposing you to enemy attacks. You can't build up a combo, no chance. And the following slashing strike right after the pause kills it even more since there's a big chance you are spamming melee attack button and you want to get out of it as fast as possible but many times you just get stuck in that second strike animation leaving you defenseless for even longer.

I'll put it simpler and more straight: having quick strikes and lengthy animations in between destroys any combat rhythm and timing handling. So most clashes end up flying around and throwing hikou at each other waiting for your opponent to make a mistake and fall into that long nikana strike animation, after which you can finish him either with your strike or with a precise hikou shot. And 4 or more people brawls turn into "spam your strikes and hope for the best".

One more thing I want to add. I have noticed that some Nikana strikes which land pretty close to the target and visually look like they should deal damage (I mean, Nikana actually touches or barely touches the opponent) but still barely make a scratch. This may be addressed to latency which is not a great thing but compared to the issue i've described previously it's not a serious concern.

Edited February 4, 2017 by ice.goblin

[Pun-chee]

Ok, so after watching all the salty threads one after the other, I thought I'll give my feedback, well rather a personal impression:

I have to admit, that Quick Steel is my least favourite VARIANT so far - which doesn't mean I don't like it. It's simple, it fulfils the theme of the VARIANTs of placing all players on a fair and even battleground. After some initial balance problems a hotfix put the mode into category: (perfectly) balanced. When it first was all about the "slam spam", it now let's you utilise your full repertoire with satisfying effectiveness: you can play the airborne style, aimglide while throwing Hikou, brute force attacks with Hikou's alternative fire mode (yes, the VARIANT Hikou has an alt fire defaulted on middle mouse button - just in case not everybody did know already), melee is still effective and deadly, but situational and has to be used with prediction and caution to not end up in a total fustercluck. And of course a combination of all of these is what it makes frantic, stylish, tense and fun.

Most arguments in the rant threads, if the OP even had arguments to offer, are simply not proven with even one video evidence. I will dismiss all of those, if anybody will answer here unless I see proof of "messed up hit detection", "unreasonable melee range", etc. I have had zero issues with hit detection and most "wtf melee deaths" are just latency issues, which can be avoided once identified (remember the player and act accordingly once you face him/her again).

I want this thread to be a positive feedback thread, and I want to thank DE for making this Tactical Alert/ VARIANT, for all the work, love and creativity they put into it. I hope there are at least a few people here on forums that enjoy this VARIANT and it would be awesome to hear some positive feedback!