Quick Steel Event Feedback

[KirukaChan]

Honestly, the whole Oro bit makes Conclave more interesting to me compared to the typical deathmatch stuff in other games. Kinda reminds me of this bit from Hunter x Hunter.

 

 

Coincidentally, I try to avoid getting into 1v1 face-to-face scenarios as much as possible, and put the last bullet into the back of the victor of such scenarios instead. Never really considered myself the "MLG pro" sort, nor do I see the need to prove anything to those that are. I just like to play for fun and profit.

Edited February 7, 2017 by KirukaChan

[Caligran]

Before we get started, I've been playing Warframe for a pretty long while- I'm MR18 almost 19, and really, REALLY love the entire game. Or so I thought. The Snowday Showdown event was very intriguing- We'd never before had a Conclave event. Throwing snowballs was pretty fun, even for a guy that never plays conclave. But where the Quick Steel event loses it is the number of matches you have to play to get the rewards. Playing three matches a day for Snowday Showdown seemed fine- it didn't take the long to complete the daily challenges no matter how you performed. The same cannot be said, to any degree, for the Quick Steel promotion- to get even the sigil (12 points), you had to spend at least 32 minutes playing the game mode, and that's assuming that you can place top 3 in every match you enter. To be fair, that wasn't too bad- except that you (DE) pushed the number even higher for the next rewards. Let's say that for today's reward (Oro Ornament, 15 points required), you played 9 matches, placing top 3 in 4 of them. That's 72 minutes of gameplay. I myself am not that great at Conclave. I placed bottom 3 in every match I played, except 2, both of which were due to the 'rigged' same-oro exploit. For a simple, daily challenge, especially one that gets rather mundane (a re-skinned Snowday Showdown promotion seems hollow), I feel like this is way too pushy. Please don't torture me like this again. I understand that you want to promote Conclave, as it's underplayed and mostly unappreciated, but this is going too far. Worst case, for 15 points, some poor low-MR player has to get through two hours of Conclave game-play. I don't know about you, but that screams "BURNOUT" to me. In place of the current system, I'd both lower the point totals required and make placement rewards scaling- first place gets the most, going downwards (but never reaching zero, you'd have to do something like the current 3 cap for top 3, but for lower placements). If you do do something like this again in the future, please keep in mind that a lot of players (including ones I talked to during Quick Steel matches) don't appreciate this kind of grind for any reward. Sorry for the rant, but even as a fairly tolerant person, I found this to be a bit heinous.

 

-Caligran

[PookieNumnums]

i like the event. its a little wonky and needs adjustments but this and snowballs are the best pvp weve had imo

 

 

[PoulsenJ]

2 minutes ago, PookieNumnums said:

i like the event. its a little wonky and needs adjustments but this and snowballs are the best pvp weve had imo

 

 

Conclace 1.0 was the best, nothing better that beating someone with their "tryhard" kit equipped, didn't play this or the one at Christmas, had all the rewards in the christmas version, couldn't care less about the rewards in the current one.

[Stormdragon]

1 hour ago, Caligran said:

Before we get started, I've been playing Warframe for a pretty long while- I'm MR18 almost 19, and really, REALLY love the entire game.

First, mastery rank does not represent how long you have been playing (let's thank the power leveling nodes for that <3), however we have something un common, we both love this game and had fun throwing snowballs.

1 hour ago, Caligran said:

But where the Quick Steel event loses it is the number of matches you have to play to get the rewards. Playing three matches a day for Snowday Showdown seemed fine- it didn't take the long to complete the daily challenges no matter how you performed. The same cannot be said, to any degree, for the Quick Steel promotion- to get even the sigil (12 points), you had to spend at least 32 minutes playing the game mode, and that's assuming that you can place top 3 in every match you enter. To be fair, that wasn't too bad- except that you (DE) pushed the number even higher for the next rewards.

The scoring system was done that way to encourage players to do their best on each game instead of going afk and be rewarded fast anyways (so I expect the "peace rounds" exploit to be fixed too on future pvp events). The score needed to get the rewards scaled because rewards scaled too; the sigil was plain and simple, no energy effects on it, that's why it costed 9 points; orokin upgrade pack (1 bp for each potato) is very useful for some players, so it's understandable making it harder to get; and the oro statue... well, it's useless but looks amazing and can't be obtained anywhere else, so the cost is, once again, justified (imo)

The duration of the matches was already reduced from 10 to 8 minutes, and honestly, making them shorter would be way too short. 

The scoring is fine, but maybe the 2 players in the middle of the scoreboard could get 2 points to at least not discourage players from, keep trying (which might happen anyways due to other reasons that have been discussed plenty of times on other threads)

Edited February 7, 2017 by -----LegioN-----

[SevenLetterKWord]

1 hour ago, Caligran said:

Please don't torture me like this again.

Torture?

I must congratulate you on achieving 15 Quick Steel points.
I can see how the shaky internet connection at Guantanamo Bay might've prevented you from placing first.
And I'll bet the towel on your face didn't help at all!

Oh, that- that was someone else?

Well then, I still congratulate you!
For it must have been difficult to play Warframe with your hands nailed to a cross.

Quote

I found this to be a bit heinous.

If "72 minutes of gameplay" is a "heinous" grind for you, I wonder what colorful language - sans line breaks, of course - you'll have to describe the grind for Ivara, or the grind for the Hema, or the grind for Vauban Prime's chassis, for Nidus, for the Sibear...

Edited February 7, 2017 by SevenLetterKWord

[TKrios]

I did find the melee combat in quick steel very clunky compared all the actual melee mechanic in rest of the game. Say you accidentally pressed melee button twice within the first attack's animation, you will be undesirably swinging that very-likely-to-miss attack, which prevents you from quickly running away, making you a prey to other players. that silly registering of unintended and useless 2nd attack throws away the flow of combat

Edited February 7, 2017 by TKrios

[-Ryuurei-]

I like the oro system. For some reason, probably my playstyle, I always find myself close to or right on top of where an oro will be, so I just grab it automatically, sometimes without even realising it. Sure, my oro get stolen too on occasion, but I usually always end up with more oro than kills. It's a seperate playstyle that you can either deal with or use yourself.

[Urlan]

8 hours ago, Heckzu said:

By the same logic you used to interpret that pie graph, only 0.42% of players use the Relays and only 0.13% use Dojos. Therefore, if Baro Ki'teer and trading were removed, almost no one would realize it, and even fewer would care, right?

That is the logic that was given on one of the recent Devstreams as to why Trials haven't been worked on recently. DE Steve has been showing that he still tinkers with the Relays but since 16.5, a memory issue was introduced that makes anyone with less than 2 GB of VRAM crash in a few minutes - faster if they use Dx9 but still happens if using 10 or 11 - so logically yes that seems to be the case.

[TykitheFreak]

Personally i question the necessity of conclave as it stands, but I'll put that aside for the sake of discussion. While i understand some people asked for PvP, the key point to stress is SOME. Meaning the it was a minority of players that wanted it in the first place before warframe grew to what it is today, and while there's probably more conclave players now than there were then, it's still likely a minority. Which means that the act of making not one, but two events right after another center around the game mode is baffling to me, especially when conclave's play is as decisively "good" or "bad" among the people that play it. While i get your reasoning in that you wanted to introduce more people to the game mode, this action also risked something much worse than the benefits can outweigh; the risk of losing player interest.

Personally, I'm probably not gonna touch warframe for a while after this, and that's how much this event put me off the game as a whole rather than just conclave. While I'm likely to come back to the game eventually, there are plenty of people that will probably outright drop it as, during their break, they find a game that holds their interest much better and is much kinder to it's community than warframe. This, in the long run, will most likely prove more detrimental than constructive in my opinion.

However, that being said i do think that conclave(and this game mode) can be improved with a few simple changes. Firstly, make it so that if you kill someone, that person's oro will gravitate to YOU over the nearest person. There have been quite a few matches where I noticed I'd kill a big group of people and then all the oro would go to all the people in that group and then finally someone across the map instead of to me. That match was actually what initiated the start of me playing "the golden snitch" game as i'd like to call it, but more on that later. Secondly, standardize which warframes can be brought into conclave. While this seems counter intuitive, the choice of warframe is actually pretty important, especially when you can't change what weapons you have or what mods are in those weapons. The difference between being able to be one shot by a nikana slam and escaping with a tiny sliver of health is in your warframe choice, and while that's much better in regular conclave, in quick steel that's horrendous and imbalances the entire game mode. Thirdly, make the games shorter and decrease the amount of oro required to instant-win a match. I have NEVER seen someone hit that twenty five oro cap that causes an instant win, and while i understand your reluctance to prevent that, having quicker matches turns the game mode into something you can just pop into for at max five minutes rather than the slow, bore-fest that it is currently. I'd personally say put the points at a max of ten, because that's actually reachable within five minutes and seeing a 'win' screen is much more fun than everyone seeing a 'lose' screen for pretty much every match.

Now, i mentioned a 'golden snitch' game that i'd play earlier, i personally would find this enjoyable so i'm adding it to this post in case someone actually thinks to put it in the game. Basically, all i'd do is run around using the movement system without attacking and try to evade everyone on the map for as long as possible. I personally found this to be more entertaining than the actual game-mode i was playing towards the end of the event. If you did make this a game mode, a suggestion would be to make it a melee-only event with quick but short-range weapons, as it requires you to actually catch the guy in question instead of just peppering them with hikou from across the map.

On the topic of events, I'd also like to discuss balancing how much you have people do. While something like the shadow-debt is something you WANT to do alot, because it's a community-wide thing that everyone enjoys and everyone participates in, something like a conclave event is very much in the minority of people that enjoy it. I likely wouldn't be complaining this badly if it had been three rounds with the same scoring system, only you only needed a max of three, six, and finally nine points rather than what we had. Yes this might decrease the amount of people playing the game mode, but if you make the matches short and sweet, then people will ACTUALLY WANT TO PLAY the game mode of their own accord rather than having to do it because it's an event.

I suppose this ends my rant, but i would urge anyone that posts on this thread to try to be constructive if they have gripes about the event or something else, as i know DE gets alot of "THIS S#&amp;&#036; SUCKS, MAKE IT BETTER" type comments and very few "hey, i thought this event was lack-luster, here's some suggestions on how things could be made better." that are actually sane.

[Roachester]

If a tiny carrot on a stick is all it takes to make you feel like you're being "forced" to do something you HATE, then you've gotta be the most weak-willed bunch of people I've ever met.

If you're not having fun with it, then don't friggin' do it. That's the entire point of playing video games.

[bluepheonix13]

8 minutes ago, TykitheFreak said:

Firstly, make it so that if you kill someone, that person's oro will gravitate to YOU over the nearest person.

It should already do that, don't know why it was different for you.

9 minutes ago, TykitheFreak said:

The difference between being able to be one shot by a nikana slam and escaping with a tiny sliver of health is in your warframe choice, and while that's much better in regular conclave, in quick steel that's horrendous and imbalances the entire game mode.

Warframes are standardized already in these Variant game modes, it is not dependent on Warframe choice.

11 minutes ago, TykitheFreak said:

I'd personally say put the points at a max of ten, because that's actually reachable within five minutes and seeing a 'win' screen is much more fun than everyone seeing a 'lose' screen for pretty much every match

Excuse me if I am wrong, but this sounds like you just want the TA rewards. I feel like 10 Oro is way too less, because I want to play the game and not sit there and wait half of the time to search matches or for the match to begin. Also, how would that change anything with win/lose screens, except seeing the same screen more often?

 

My own feedback: I would have used another scoring system for this TA, because this way it didn't reward the first place as much. I'd rather have seen something like 4, 3, 2, 1 points for 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th+ respectively.

[WarOverlord]

I've seen 25 points be reached several times.

I hated it at first and was terrible at it, so I fed for the first 2 challenges mostly, but I got to be pretty good at it by the third, and I kind of like it now.

[oneforsaken]

It's a variant of the regular mode, so it can't be better anyways. Also conclave 1vs all you need to do the same, but the things everybody gets the same unbalanced weapons, in regular matches you have conclave mods (and there are many naysayers when they want to do conclave they would be like: "why to get stomped by someone that grinds it and has all the mods) So this is a somewhat more fair mode.

Regarding the event in general: DE wants us to try more conclave and be friends with it, but when u get decent gear the mode is kinda absolute. You have 2 choices, farm something shoot stuff that can't handle you, or go conclave until you git good.
But for me these events are just for the sigils that i don't need but collect them for no apparent reason. Even if that makes me throw sh**t in some weird mode or slam attack with some fetish toys. I get the sigil event is over.

*This is my general opinion view, no offense to OP of this thread, neither DE.

[Kierlak]

32 minutes ago, bluepheonix13 said:

Excuse me if I am wrong, but this sounds like you just want the TA rewards.

 That's all the majority want when engaging in PvP in this game, they want whatever cosmetic they are after, then they want to get out as fast as possible because PvP in this game is awful.

[Nighttide77]

1 hour ago, Roachester said:

If a tiny carrot on a stick is all it takes to make you feel like you're being "forced" to do something you HATE

I like this. I think I might commit this one to memory, heh.

[Heckzu]

4 hours ago, Kierlak said:

 That's all the majority want when engaging in PvP in this game, they want whatever cosmetic they are after, then they want to get out as fast as possible because PvP in this game is awful.

That's all the majority want when engaging in anything in this game, they want whatever items they are after, then they completely stop doing it after they can no longer get those said items because PvE in this game is awful.

Endless survival is pretty much dead, same goes for endless defense because players can't get endless pimed loot for no effort anymore.

A lot of people intentionally don't do Sorties anymore because they're not getting their desired rewards.

Rathuum is dead, except for those farming endo or those who need Saryn parts.

Pretty much no one plays Infested Salvage after obtaining Nidus.

I can't remember the last time I've ever met someone doing Spy for fun who wasn't after Ivara parts or specific spy-only mods.

 

Yet there are quite a few players who have already obtained all of the Conclave cosmetics but still continue to play Conclave? Why is that?

Could it be that the Conclave regulars aren't as materialistic or greedy as the majority of PvE-only players such as yourself, and actually find enjoyment in things other than rewards?

[linxcat]

There have been a lot of positive changes to the mode as DE keeps offering new rewards for players to test the systems. Now, being airborne is a very good defense against the nikana, though there are still few grounded options, and the slam radius is much lower. It also attenuates melee damage over distance, so you don't nuke the whole area that you hit. I find that a very good strategy is to cancel a melee resulting in a knowckdown into hikou throwing for a kill, rather than trying to keep hitting with melee. I also like how there is a second attack animation in the mix, which both prevents an extra quick melee press from locking you down for a whole extra second, but also serves as a sort of cooldown on spammers while also allowing you to use a quicker less damaging hit to finsh of damaged opponents without commiting to a full slam. My latest rounds in Quick Steel have been really enjoyable, and I think this mode has really come into it's own.

[Troll_Logic]

Ok, ok, ok.  I know this will be the very first reply so I'll address it.

"Yes, no one is forcing anyone to play the event."  While that's true, it's not relevant.  

 

First, events are supposed to be fun.  DE should read the chat screens in these events.  The chat is full of expletives about PvP & DE.  I haven't read a single message of "I love this event" while the opposite is the normal.  "Quick Steel" is not fun unless your a PvP player..

 

Second, the event is way too long.  8 minutes a match with a minimum of 5 matches and a max of 15.  That's a minimum of 40 minutes and a max of two hours.  That is way too long for many reasons I'm about to list.

 

Three, the event heavily favors current PvP players.  Why is this bad?

 

Fourth, only three players can win.  So what happens when a player is #5 on the list with 4 minutes left and hopelessly behind?  What is that player to do?  Play hard for the last four minutes even though nothing will change?  A player is supposed to stay active even though he knows he can't get more than a point no matter what?

 

Fifth, that leads to this point, the remaining time.  A player can't quit.  He'll lose that one point.  He can't win because the game is un-winnable.  So the player is basically trapped in a losing game until the game is finally over.  That is not a good time.

 

Sixth, the rewards.  This is the key.  No one cares if a PvP reward is a "Orokin pack."  That's a nice gift, but it can be obtained elsewhere.  Putting a unique reward that can't be obtained in any other way is simply unfair.  If a player wants that item that can't be obtained any other way, he feels forced to slog through a non-fun game just to get the reward.

 

"Quick Steel" is a terrible event for the reasons I've listed.  Don't offer unique rewards for PvP events and this problem goes away.

 

Ok, everyone seems to be missing the biggest point so I'll put in big red letters.

The biggest problem with "Quick Steel" is the scoring.  The leaderboard is generally set after about three minutes.  That means after three minutes, the only real players with a chance at "winning" are in the top four slots.  That means players #5, #6, #7, & #8 are in a game for the next five minutes that they CAN NOT win and they CAN NOT quit.  They have to tread water in a losing game until it is finally over.

While this in not fun, it is tenable for very short time for an item.  However, putting players in this position for a long time for a unique item is not fair not well though out.

Yes, PvP players have the advantage but NOT in winning the game per se.  The PvP players have the advantage in they only have to play a minimum of games so they spend the least amount of time in the event.

Again, it's how the matches are scored that is the problem.

Edited February 8, 2017 by Troll_Logic

[Dumfing]

5 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

Ok, ok, ok.  I know this will be the very first reply so I'll address it.

"Yes, no one is forcing anyone to play the event."  While that's true, it's not relevant.  

 

First, events are supposed to be fun.  DE should read the chat screens in these events.  The chat is full of expletives about PvP & DE.  I haven't read a single message of "I love this event" while the opposite is the normal.  "Quick Steel" is not fun unless your a PvP player..

 

Second, the event is way too long.  8 minutes a match with a minimum of 5 matches and a max of 15.  That's a minimum of 40 minutes and a max of two hours.  That is way too long for many reasons I'm about to list.

 

Three, the event heavily favors current PvP players.  Why is this bad?

 

Fourth, only three players can win.  So what happens when a player is #5 on the list with 4 minutes left and hopelessly behind?  What is that player to do?  Play hard for the last four minutes even though nothing will change?  A player is supposed to stay active even though he knows he can't get more than a point no matter what?

 

Fifth, that leads to this point, the remaining time.  A player can't quit.  He'll lose that one point.  He can't win because the game is un-winnable.  So the player is basically trapped in a losing game until the game is finally over.  That is not a good time.

 

Sixth, the rewards.  This is the key.  No one cares if a PvP reward is a "Orokin pack."  That's a nice gift, but it can be obtained elsewhere.  Putting a unique reward that can't be obtained in any other way is simply unfair.  If a player wants that item that can't be obtained any other way, he feels forced to slog through a non-fun game just to get the reward.

 

"Quick Steel" is a terrible event for the reasons I've listed.  Don't offer unique rewards for PvP events and this problem goes away.

While this is true, it's not relevant

[AEP8FlyBoy]

Just to add something to this discussion, instead of taking it away like most other users.
Oro-stealing is also a thing, which leads to players getting more Oro while killing less than other players.

I actually came in 2nd in a match I played earlier because of this, and I had 4 more kills than the guy above me.
The event wasn't "fun", it was a bit more of a chore really, and I only did it for the awards.

If another event like this popped up, I probably wouldn't do it, even if there was good rewards.
Simply because Conclave as it is, as much as I want it to be good, just isn't.

This "slight" alteration to gameplay isn't even close to enough to redeem it. Conclave in general probably just needs reworked from the ground up, since I feel that minor tweaks here and there aren't cutting it.

And the amount of players actually playing it is a clear indicator of how fun it is.
Because it isn't. Except when I camp the health restores.
Hehe, got a 20-0 K/D doing that.

But yes... It was basically a mindless bullet jumping, hoping you hit the target, Mountain-Dew fueled ragefest.
I personally enjoyed it at the end though, just because I didn't have to do it anymore.
Might be because I'm used to PvE, but I only really play Conclave when I have to.

And I'm not that bad at it, I just don't like doing it is all.
Doesn't mean other players feel the same way.

Some players actually like this sort of thing.
And if it doesn't feel like a waste of time or resources to them, then it isn't.
Which is fine and dandy with me. To each his/her own.

Edited February 8, 2017 by AEP8FlyBoy

[Chipputer]

Another topic repeating the same sentiment? In the wrong section to boot?

Yes. We get it and I fully agree. It was a bad event for a bad game mode that the vast majority of players dislike for one reason or another. You have literally brought nothing new to the discussion. Take a ride over to the Conclave feedback forum.

[Raniu]

7 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

"Quick Steel" is not fun unless your a PvP player..

I thought it was meant for PvP players? You know. Because it's a PvP event? xD

8 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

Putting a unique reward that can't be obtained in any other way is simply unfair.

A unique PvP themed reward.

9 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

First, events are supposed to be fun.

It is fun. For PvP players, as you've noticed.

9 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

"Yes, no one is forcing anyone to play the event."  While that's true, it's not relevant.

What is relevant though, is that all the players play a game for fun. If they don't have fun in an alright mode which is enjoyed by PvPers then they should not play it. As simple as that.

 

I feel like I repeat myself.

[MagPrime]

I'd have to say the Tubemen event is at the top of the "bad ideas" list and this one is fairly low on that list.

As to being "forced" into play a disliked game mode for a trinket; eh. It doesn't hold any affinity so I don't see the point behind the community losing their collective minds but I'm not big on #fashionframe to begin with.

 

[Troll_Logic]

4 minutes ago, Raniu said:

A unique PvP themed reward.

Nope, a reward.

4 minutes ago, Raniu said:

I feel like I repeat myself.

You can all you want.