Can a Mag Main Enlighten Me

[Arniox]

20 hours ago, (PS4)Akuma_Asura_ said:

What is mag good at ? I don't wanna just disregard her & call her useless because obviously I just don't know how to play her, soo what does a mag main do ?

idk. I really like mag and I play her alot. I spam her 3rd whenever I get a chance, use my 2nd in groups to both survive and to kill many peeps. And I use my 4th to stun and sometimes, with a certain build, to strip dem armor :P

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

23 hours ago, CrazyCortex said:

Side note, grab a beam weapon for added lols or take a carpet bomb zhuge. You will not be disappointed.

Her Magnetize's interaction with beam weapons was fixed a couple of patches ago where it hits the target at a fixed rate of fire. It's not as devastating as it used to be, where just a single shot from a beam weapon would immediately super charge the Magnetize bubble based on your rig's fps.

It's better to use Hitscan and non-Hitscan weapons. Afaik, Explosives don't have an interaction with Magnetize, or rather, since the Explosives nerf headshots are not possible anymore.

[Sajochi]

Just now, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

Her Magnetize's interaction with beam weapons was fixed a couple of patches ago where it hits the target at a fixed rate of fire. It's not as devastating as it used to be, where just a single shot from a beam weapon would immediately super charge the Magnetize bubble based on your rig's fps.

It's better to use Hitscan and non-Hitscan weapons. Afaik, Explosives don't have an interaction with Magnetize, or rather, since the Explosives nerf headshots are not possible anymore.

I mean more for the visual aspect. I typically use magnetize for quick cover to set up my 4. I play mag as DPS support mostly. Although I do have a rivened glaxion that I've been experimenting with on magnetize and it's been getting some insane results. Level 80 mission, I held the fire button for 3 seconds to kill the main target and any enemies that walked in died in 2-3 ticks. The explosion was icing on the cake because we got swarmed pretty hard and nothing around me was alive. 

Other than that I take secura dual cestra and mutilist cernos modded with gas for efficient killing while keeping everyone up with polarize and stopping enemies with fracturing crush. Barely take a hit on my energy since I learned to time when to use my abilities.

[MagPrime]

13 hours ago, (PS4)Tactless_Ninja said:

It doesn't immediately max shields the way it would work against corrupted or corpus, just gives a small boost for every cast. But the crush augment is supposed to be the alternative.

Some of you people have no imagination. Mag is amazing for protecting points in interception and otherwise herding enemies. And you damn well appreciate polarize when the defense target is taking health damage and the point is swamped with enemies because the Frost went afk.

Long duration Magnetize is awesome for Interceptions and Defenses.  Just pop it on the closest target to the objective and forget about it.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

Shhhh!

Let the people who don't know how to use her complicated tactics complain to get her buffed. It will just make the people who know better even stronger....then they'll cry nerf again. lol

[(PSN)Darth-Escar]

On ‎2‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 0:30 PM, (PS4)watt4hem said:

If it's mag thread, @Noamuth will show up.

It was very easy to spot the actual Mag main. I know enough to see that almost everyone else is wrong, but I know I wouldn't get it quite right either. That's why I stick to Oberon threads.

[MagPrime]

33 minutes ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

Shhhh!

Let the people who don't know how to use her complicated tactics complain to get her buffed. It will just make the people who know better even stronger....then they'll cry nerf again. lol

...I mean, forget about it because the power is so terrabad that it's pointless trying to continue using it...

>.>

<.<

18 minutes ago, (PS4)Darth-Escar said:

It was very easy to spot the actual Mag main. I know enough to see that almost everyone else is wrong, but I know I wouldn't get it quite right either. That's why I stick to Oberon threads.

The joys of Mag, Warframes in general, there isn't really a "right" way of playing her.  There's a meta way and then there's the personal way.

I wouldn't say that anyone in here is wrong in how they play her, but that also means I wouldn't say anyone here is right in how they play her.  (not touching the people that flat out hate on her, for reasons)

[(PSN)Darth-Escar]

1 hour ago, Noamuth said:

The joys of Mag, Warframes in general, there isn't really a "right" way of playing her.  There's a meta way and then there's the personal way.

I wouldn't say that anyone in here is wrong in how they play her, but that also means I wouldn't say anyone here is right in how they play her.  (not touching the people that flat out hate on her, for reasons)

I'm mainly looking at the people who say that she's a one trick pony and stuff. I've seen many effective ways of using her, and all of her abilities are highly useful. I usually show people who don't think Crush is good, my Mag clip. People who still don't think is good often join me for a mission, and change their minds, then.

 

[MagPrime]

Just now, (PS4)Darth-Escar said:

I'm mainly looking at the people who say that she's a one trick pony and stuff. I've seen many effective ways of using her, and all of her abilities are highly useful. I usually show people who don't think Crush is good, my Mag clip. People who still don't think is good often join me for a mission, and change their minds, then.

 

Yeah, I was including the one trick pony comments in the hating ones, sorry for not being clear.

[(PSN)Darth-Escar]

2 minutes ago, Noamuth said:

Yeah, I was including the one trick pony comments in the hating ones, sorry for not being clear.

It's all good. LOL

Actually I forgot, there was a question I wanted to ask a Mag main about. I was doing some tests with Fracturing Crush, and it seems to scale with strength more than before. I remember the Wiki said that the reduction was capped at 50%, but when I was seeing how the armor removal interacted with Polarize, and I was able to remove armor 3-4x faster. My friend and I are thinking that it's capped to something between 75% and 90%. Do you know if there's a new cap or some unknown synergy with it?

[MagPrime]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Darth-Escar said:

It's all good. LOL

Actually I forgot, there was a question I wanted to ask a Mag main about. I was doing some tests with Fracturing Crush, and it seems to scale with strength more than before. I remember the Wiki said that the reduction was capped at 50%, but when I was seeing how the armor removal interacted with Polarize, and I was able to remove armor 3-4x faster. My friend and I are thinking that it's capped to something between 75% and 90%. Do you know if there's a new cap or some unknown synergy with it?

I haven't seen a new cap, but it does synergize with Polarize.  Fracturing Crush takes the 50% and then Polarize takes it's bit on top of that.  @tnccs215 actually did some extensive testing of this combination in the Simulacrum awhile back and can give you a better answer.

[Ghogiel]

I use mag for a lot of stuff that isn't a roving mission type (cap, exterm, etc) Anything where you are standing around waiting for spawns or timers, MD, surv, def, int etc.

Mainly she is my override kill stealer> t's pretty hard for other frames to actually get kills once I have locked the map down with the longish duration, huge,  practically infinite ranged magnetize bubbles. Killing things with the magnetize explosions when the bubble pops is just over kills when the DoT will just kill every single enemy at lvl 100 in seconds if they step into bubbles effect. You do have to use a projectile weapon and not hit scan or beam types as they don't seem to make have the blender effect. (as seen in the lanka vid in the first page (I use a god riven on a mara detron currently))

Basically she stops other players using anything but their powers to get kills, the bubble spam just sucks in any weapon fire. I've not come across many frames that will stop me getting 50k focus in an eximus sortie mission.

[DreamsmithJane]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)Darth-Escar said:

It's all good. LOL

Actually I forgot, there was a question I wanted to ask a Mag main about. I was doing some tests with Fracturing Crush, and it seems to scale with strength more than before. I remember the Wiki said that the reduction was capped at 50%, but when I was seeing how the armor removal interacted with Polarize, and I was able to remove armor 3-4x faster. My friend and I are thinking that it's capped to something between 75% and 90%. Do you know if there's a new cap or some unknown synergy with it?

Wiki is wrong. It was changed to claim that it doesn't scale up with power strength at all, simply because someone noticed it doesn't reach 100% when they expected it to. It definitely does more than 50% with 200% power strength, but I can't say how much, how it scales, or what (if any) cap is applied. I have heard 80% being tossed around, and it seems believable based on performance in sorties (and number of subsequent Polarize casts required to finish the job — very few!).

[MagPrime]

1 minute ago, DreamsmithJane said:

Wiki is wrong. It was changed to claim that it doesn't scale up with power strength at all, simply because someone noticed it doesn't reach 100% when they expected it to. It definitely does more than 50% with 200% power strength, but I can't say how much, how it scales, or what (if any) cap is applied. I have heard 80% being tossed around, and it seems believable based on performance in sorties (and number of subsequent Polarize casts required to finish the job — very few!).

I'll have to experiment with it more, I haven't seen this.

[(PSN)BlitzKeir]

7 minutes ago, DreamsmithJane said:

Wiki is wrong. It was changed to claim that it doesn't scale up with power strength at all, simply because someone noticed it doesn't reach 100% when they expected it to. It definitely does more than 50% with 200% power strength, but I can't say how much, how it scales, or what (if any) cap is applied. I have heard 80% being tossed around, and it seems believable based on performance in sorties (and number of subsequent Polarize casts required to finish the job — very few!).

Me and Darth ran some testing the other day and realized it isn't capped at 50%. He tested Fracturing Crush + Polarize on lv50 Bombard with 2760 armor to see how many Polarizes were needed to completely remove armor after the augment did its work. At 285% strength, only one Polarize was needed. At 155% strength, again only one Polarize was needed. At 130% strength, two Polarizes were needed.

I ran the numbers, and if the augment capped at 50% armor removal, two Polarizes should have been necessary at 285% strength, and three at 155%. So it definitely scales beyond 50%. Further testing would be needed to determine the actual cap.

Based on wiki's info, I had immediately deemed the augment useless. Stationary enemies can still shoot you, and given the number of Polarizes needed for full armor removal, it just wouldn't have been worthwhile. But if it does scale, that's a whole other story. It synergizes very well with Polarize.

Edited February 22, 2017 by (PS4)BlitzKeir

[Sajochi]

1 minute ago, (PS4)BlitzKeir said:

Me and Darth ran some testing the other day and realized it isn't capped at 50%. He tested Fracturing Crush + Polarize on lv50 Bombard with 2760 armor to see how many Polarizes were needed to completely remove armor after the augment did its work. At 285% strength, only one Polarize was needed. At 155% strength, again only one Polarize was needed. At 130% strength, two Polarizes were needed.

I ran the numbers, and if the augment capped at 50% armor removal, two Polarizes should have been necessary at 285% strength, and three at 155%. So it definitely scales beyond 50%. Further testing would be needed to determine the actual cap.

This changes how I do my rotation now. Wish I knew how to calculate this stuff to help. 

Might be taking her in grineer sorties a lot more with a range/power build. I'm going to go set it up right now.

[Andaius]

 I thought the way it worked was, the armored enemies "flesh" isn't factored until all armor is stripped off.  So gas/ toxic and heat damage will use damage values for Armor on grineer units.

Quote

Toxin damage bypasses shields to directly affect health (does not bypass armor however).

from the wiki confirms this... So corrosive will always be a better choice vs. Grineer if your not running x4 CP.

[DreamsmithJane]

34 minutes ago, Andaius said:

 I thought the way it worked was, the armored enemies "flesh" isn't factored until all armor is stripped off.  So gas/ toxic and heat damage will use damage values for Armor on grineer units.

from the wiki confirms this... So corrosive will always be a better choice vs. Grineer if your not running x4 CP.

Not so. Both modifiers (for health and armor type) are applied multiplicatively. It's just that most damage types only have a modifier against an armor type or a health type, not both. Electric damage still gets its +50% against robotics (and radiation, +25%), but with Bursas having ferrite armor, pucture will do more, getting a total +87.5% modifier due to bonuses against both ferrite and robotics (and partially ignoring armor for even more effective damage beyond that). Toxin damage will be reduced by armor, but still get its bonus against flesh (not cloned flesh), if applicable. This is mostly only going to happen with humanoid Corpus bosses, though, as most units with flesh have no armor.

Getting health damage modifiers through armor also means viral is the best single element to damage both types of armored Grineer (corrosive being mediocre against alloy, and radiation being poor against ferrite), especially if you have a means of stripping most or all armor without status procs. This is why viral weapons are great for Mag (and a few other frames with armor removal: Banshee, Frost, Nekros, Trinity, and now Hydroid and Vauban), not just 4xCP squads. It's not actually necessary to strip all armor in order to make viral damage more effective (though Mag can do that anyway, and it's needed to match corrosive against ferrite). Unlike corrosive, viral leaves room for radiation, which means you always have good damage against priority targets like Scorches, Napalms, and Bombards. And that's not factoring in viral status potentially doubling your effective damage, which may on average actually exceed corrosive damage against ferrite targets, depending on how much armor you remove by other means, and on how reliably you get the procs.

Of course, with innate corrosive damage, you can mod for all three. But the point is that you still get the health type multipliers against armored targets, and you have more choices than just corrosive or 4xCP.

[RedVeilOperative]

I feel like I'd be the best person to explain it for you. Maybe. Idk.

Pull is basically a cheap pocket CC. Use it when there's a big guy about to kill you, when you want to pull a platoon of enemies off a cliff, or to pull in enemies closer to your Magnetize that's about to explode.

Magnetize is kinda self explanatory. Lock down a large area and make it a great big choke point. It also guarantees a headshot most of the time so you can use it to trigger your Argon Scopes easily. The explosion can be used to wipe maps.

Polarize is good until about level 50ish. See that bombard over there? Boop, now he has no armor. Go nuts on him. Later levels like sorties and endless makes this... I won't say useless, but a hell of a lot less effective. It can also be used as an emergency shield restore.

Crush is... disappointing. It's really fun to go to a mission, strip their armor with 3, then crush the entire map with 4, but that really only works until about level 40ish, and if you mess up then you may as well use those magnet powers to telepathically dig your own grave. However, with about 121 strength I can still cast 3, then 4, then wipe the map on missions like Hydron on Sedna. But overall it could be a lot better and I personally think the base speed of the ability should be Crush + Natural Talent. That should be how fast it is base.

 

Overall, Mag is an overall good choice for mild crowd control with her 1 and 4, as well as damage with her 2 and 3. I'd recommend a mainly balanced build with slightly negative duration. If you want, I can post my personal Mag build to better explain how I got my stats.

And for the love of god, please use Natural Talent.

[MagPrime]

27 minutes ago, Mag said:

I feel like I'd be the best person to explain it for you. Maybe. Idk.

Pull is basically a cheap pocket CC. Use it when there's a big guy about to kill you, when you want to pull a platoon of enemies off a cliff, or to pull in enemies closer to your Magnetize that's about to explode.

Magnetize is kinda self explanatory. Lock down a large area and make it a great big choke point. It also guarantees a headshot most of the time so you can use it to trigger your Argon Scopes easily. The explosion can be used to wipe maps.

Polarize is good until about level 50ish. See that bombard over there? Boop, now he has no armor. Go nuts on him. Later levels like sorties and endless makes this... I won't say useless, but a hell of a lot less effective. It can also be used as an emergency shield restore.

Crush is... disappointing. It's really fun to go to a mission, strip their armor with 3, then crush the entire map with 4, but that really only works until about level 40ish, and if you mess up then you may as well use those magnet powers to telepathically dig your own grave. However, with about 121 strength I can still cast 3, then 4, then wipe the map on missions like Hydron on Sedna. But overall it could be a lot better and I personally think the base speed of the ability should be Crush + Natural Talent. That should be how fast it is base.

 

Overall, Mag is an overall good choice for mild crowd control with her 1 and 4, as well as damage with her 2 and 3. I'd recommend a mainly balanced build with slightly negative duration. If you want, I can post my personal Mag build to better explain how I got my stats.

And for the love of god, please use Natural Talent.

Post your build.

[tischkanteVS]

Mag is so stupidly overpowered its Not even funny. Cast 2 on something, Shoot it With a Gas Lanka, have a saryn With you and Wonder yourself why where is nothing which you cant kill

[tnccs215]

who summons me into this hellhole.

Im busy playing Mass Effect goddamnit.

10 hours ago, Noamuth said:

I haven't seen a new cap, but it does synergize with Polarize.  Fracturing Crush takes the 50% and then Polarize takes it's bit on top of that.  @tnccs215 actually did some extensive testing of this combination in the Simulacrum awhile back and can give you a better answer.

Oh, it's you and about that.

@(PS4)Darth-Escar Yes, I can attest to the fact that Fracturing Crush armor reduction scales with power strength, up to 80% armor reduction at 160% power strength.

It also stacks multiplicatively with itself, which means casting a >160% p strength F. Crush twice will grant you a 0.2*0.2=0.04=96% armor reduction until the first debuff expires (Three casts mean a 99.2% reduction, which though better, is effectively shockingly brief taking that the co-joined casting time will occupy most of the duration of the first effect).

Funny thing, Fracturing Crush affects armor the same way Viral Procs affect health. Which means it works by temporarily changing both the base and the current values of affected enemy armor -- which in turn means that the game processes the power by multiplying the armor value by 0.2 at the start of the power, and then dividing the altered value by 0.2 once the debuff duration expires.

All this in practice, just like with Viral Proc, translates to superior effects once the power wears off. Just like dealing 20 points of damage to a Viral affected enemy translates to 40 points of damage when the status proc clears, if you remove 100 armor to a 80%-armor-reduction-F.Crush affected enemy, it will translate to a 500 points of armor reduction once the power duration clears.

And, more importantly, it means that if you wipe out the armor of a F.Crush affected enemy, it won't go back even after F.Crush expires.

The practical consequence of this is a marvelous sinergy with any permanent armor reduction effect and, more importantly, Polarize.

A 200% P. Strength Mag can completely remove the armor of a level 135 Corrupted Heavy Gunner with two casts of Fracturing Crush and one cast of Polarize. Which is very, very useful.

 

Though, then again, you can simply bring any frame with sleep powers and a Covert Lethality dagger and kill them faster and more effectively, so why even bother with intelligent tactics when the game allows and encourages idiotic, exploitative cheese.

 

 

Edited February 23, 2017 by tnccs215

[(PSN)maso_sage-mode]

im getting blind after reading some comments....

[(PSN)BlitzKeir]

@tnccs215 Interesting... I hadn't yet figured out that FC stacks with itself.
But can you prove that it scales to 80%? Because my testing puts the cap at 75% at the highest. I'm not confident in my math, though.

From my test notes:

Quote

lv100 bombard
8267 armor

test 2
170% str
fracturing crush reaches 85%; polarize removes 680
cast crush
cast polarize x4 = 2720 armor removal
100% armor removed

analysis, test 2:
if upper cap is 75%, crush left bombard with 2066 armor, polarize 4 had excess of 654 armor reduction.
if upper cap is 76%, crush left bombard with 1984 armor, polarize 3 would have reduced armor to 0.
if upper cap is 67%, crush left bombard with 2728 armor, polarize 4 would not have reduced armor to 0.

 

[tnccs215]

1 hour ago, (PS4)BlitzKeir said:

@tnccs215 Interesting... I hadn't yet figured out that FC stacks with itself.
But can you prove that it scales to 80%? Because my testing puts the cap at 75% at the highest. I'm not confident in my math, though.

From my test notes:

 

My initial data obtaining experiments (I realised that F.Crush stacked before noticing it scaled with strength, so I only realised that it did when I decided to actually just change the strength and check the damage my weapons dealt) went a bit like that, but my actual tests (i.e. Aimed at confirming or refuting the theory that its capped at 80%) where a bit simpler: I simply progressively increased my power strength, and checked when did my weapon damage stop increasing.

I refrained my self to use calculated Armor Values unless expressively necessary. Probably due to roundings (or inexact armor scaling formulas presented on the wiki), tested armor values calculated based on damage dealt to the armored enemy tends to be slightly different from predicted values based on the Formula present on the Wiki. Therefore, I only used the formula on a pre-test to confirm that F.Crush's Armor reduction scaling formula is a linear function with coefficient=1 (as most powers have):

1-Control test: No F.Crush. Cast Zenurik (hard CC) on level 130 Corrupted Heavy Gunner. Shoot her with low crit, low status weapon. Anote damage. Results: Slight deviance of test armor value vs predicted armor values, but acceptable

2-No extra P. Strength, F.Crush. Repeat procedure. Results: Again, slight deviance, but acceptable to believe in a 50% armor reduction

3-150% P. Strength, F.Crush. Repeat procedure. Results: Once more, slight deviance, but acceptable enough to deduce the presence of a 75% armor reduction.

Conclusion: As normal with powers, scaling formula is a simple Modded_Armor_Reduction = Base_Armor_Reduction * Power_Strength. I.e.: coefficient = 1

Further testing to actually check the maximum cap went a bit like this:

1-Zenurik (hard CC) a level 130 Corrupted Heavy Gunner and shoot her with a low crit, low status weapon. Anote damage dealt (this will be the control test)

1-Mod Mag with some duration and 100% (base) power strength

2-Cast zenurik followed by F. Crush on a level 130 Corrupted Heavy Gunner. Shoot her, anote damage.

3-Mod Mag with progressively increases P. Strength, preferably 5% increases between each build when possible.

3-Repeat step 2 until damage dealt stops increasing.

The idea is that, when the damage dealt by shooting stops increasing, than F.Crush became capped. This was verified at 160% power strength (80% armor reduction).

 

Of course, this was made quite a while back, around a week after she was reworked. Should they have ninja changed her, these calculations might be outdated.

 

Edited February 23, 2017 by tnccs215