Oberon Rework discussion and feedback (including feedback post prime time #161)

[Mousarchy]

8 hours ago, BeardyKyle said:

Bluntly. I think these ideas aren't very well thought out and not at all in keeping with the quote from DEScott. 

Its because hes basing this all on the NAME Oberon and not the frame Oberon. He wants a druid/fairy king frame and what not...despite the fact that oberon was a paliden/radiation/(minor in druid) before he even got a name (given by the design counsel)

[Mousarchy]

9 minutes ago, Buddhakingpen said:

Still dont care about his 3. Its a convenience heal, and will probably always be a convenience heal.And thats ok.  He's not meant to compete with trinity. 

Ya. I might have to change my self over to a selfish oberon. Depending on how well the healing wave scales on duration....probly mag scaleage from the looks of it.

[kapn655321]

This is Excellent news!

In no way does it bother my current build, and it will scale to greater damage.
Score for me. =)

[kapn655321]

1 hour ago, StallordD said:

But Renewal.

Why...WHY? WHY do they not just let it stay for its duration?

I think to avoid Oberon's being beholden to a pattern of
"Heal every 14.2 seconds or you're useless to me." - says uppity party members

Even for your own play, you would expect yourself to time out your heals as a constant repetitive.
..then they have to balance the energy so it's not a 1 for 1, or else no other abilities get used..
yadda yadda.

Know what I mean? Sounds more convenient, but could become a meta rut that they just sidestepped.

[kapn655321]

5 hours ago, (Xbox One)DRG JupiterIvan said:

 

Renewel: But here's the biggest issue I have with it. Stops healing once full. Us Oberon fans have been asking for Renewal to keep being active for the duration of the ability.

I think I get why this isn't a thing..
Because if there is a timed duration of heal, expectations will be that he must cast this every X seconds, repetitively.

Granted, a Volt may be expected to cast speed the same way, or Valk with Warcry.. and largely, they do in defense.

We Oberon fans accept his healing to be more of convenience trickle heal, instead of Trin full heals..
Though, if the party knows you could be responsible for healing every 14 seconds.. They're going to blame you for not doing that.
..Then you're beholden to either casting every X seconds, and building just so for energy..
Then DE has to make sure the energy doesn't become to 1-1 gain thing with energy siphon or Zenurik..
Etc. Know what I mean?

I think having Renewal finish when players are full, sidesteps a potential meta rut.

Yeah, we would all like it. I cannot deny that. ..in practice though, I see what Could be the cause of that not being the case.
I'm dead certain DE has thought of it.. what we are not dead certain of as players, is why they decided it wasn't right.

"In the fundamental heart and mind of the universe, there is a reason." -Slartibartfast

[MegpoidBeetle]

1. Smite: Well at least it scales

2. Hallowed Ground: Seems like they're just increasing its range

3. Renewal: They're nerfing the range? Also can they just make up their mind and choose either toggle or duration based?

4. Reckoning: Seems okay for now

Passive: Doesn't seem all that good, but way better than his previous crapsack of a passive

But does any of his stats get buffed? Health, shield, armor, and energy?

[Rhaken]

2 hours ago, kapn655321 said:

I think to avoid Oberon's being beholden to a pattern of
"Heal every 14.2 seconds or you're useless to me." - says uppity party members

That may be the thought process behind the decision. However, I'd argue against by, once again, comparing to Trinity. She's a power spammer like few others. Spam EV every few seconds to top off your team's energy. At the limit, Blessing every 20 seconds for the damage reduction.

Compared to Blessing or Ravenous, Renewal does precisely nothing. Casting preemptively doesn't even happen. Even though Blessing and Ravenous are ultimate abilities, that doesn't mean they're the best thing in their respective frame's kit. The power budget can be (and often is) spread less evenly than "Ult > 3 > 2 > 1". And the reworked Renewal might even be a nerf if the wave's range isn't gigantic, and it doesn't stop working in a really wonky way.

[Iceheart125]

they're kinda close, but renewAL NEEDS either duration or a energy cost reduction, cast time to one handed, not a two handed, slow casting timed capped ability. Just make it a base 20 to 25 seconds hp regeneration buff, with all the bells and whitles, have it orbit the player like mesas team buff. As it is, it's not going to be any better.

[AdunSaveMe]

Actually, its main issue is that it stops healing once the player reaches full HP. This trumps all its other problems by far.

You have to wait for an ally to take damage, then you heal them, and assuming they haven't already died, they have no further assistance from the ability when they reach full HP. Trinity can give players massive damage resist at any time, at max affinity range.

The heal over time needs to persist. It needs longer range and a quicker effect and just needs to be reliable overall.

Edited April 21, 2017 by AdunSaveMe

[ashrah]

they can make it as hp regen that could be handy...+ smg buff or something like that to be really good

[AdunSaveMe]

2 minutes ago, ashrah said:

they can make it as hp regen that could be handy...+ smg buff or something like that to be really good

One thing I know for sure is that it doesn't need a tiny range.

[(XBOX)TheMadCash]

Well I don't know how DE can make renewal better without copying another way to heal. Got to keep in mind doing every heal in the game is different from each other. This heal wave is just special to oberon. If anything. I would just want DE to speed up the heal wave. That would make it pretty good. Plus as an added bonus. You will get bonus health. 

[ashrah]

27 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

One thing I know for sure is that it doesn't need a tiny range.

both oberon and trin i would remove range  make it global healing.. like was trin been before..i know its hard to trck u range wen things  heat up....

[(XBOX)Ivan of Jupiter]

4 hours ago, kapn655321 said:

I think I get why this isn't a thing..
Because if there is a timed duration of heal, expectations will be that he must cast this every X seconds, repetitively.

Granted, a Volt may be expected to cast speed the same way, or Valk with Warcry.. and largely, they do in defense.

We Oberon fans accept his healing to be more of convenience trickle heal, instead of Trin full heals..
Though, if the party knows you could be responsible for healing every 14 seconds.. They're going to blame you for not doing that.
..Then you're beholden to either casting every X seconds, and building just so for energy..
Then DE has to make sure the energy doesn't become to 1-1 gain thing with energy siphon or Zenurik..
Etc. Know what I mean?

I think having Renewal finish when players are full, sidesteps a potential meta rut.

Yeah, we would all like it. I cannot deny that. ..in practice though, I see what Could be the cause of that not being the case.
I'm dead certain DE has thought of it.. what we are not dead certain of as players, is why they decided it wasn't right.

"In the fundamental heart and mind of the universe, there is a reason." -Slartibartfast

Except that Renewal is a duration ability. Why even have it be Duration based if the heal is going to be cut off prematurely? I disagree about the meta. Especially with how they want to make Renewal a wave instead of always being able to target friendlies. This change means that everyone will need to huddle next to Oberon in order gain benefits. 

Plus even if they finally made it keep the healing effect for the duration of the ability, I have a hard time believing this would knock Trinity off her throne. Constant heals are great and all, but you can't keep healing after getting one shot.

Im sure they've thought about it. It's been something that has been asked for for quite some time. But then again, Universal sentinel Vacuum proves that sometimes, with enough demand things can change. So no, I will not sit here and say, "Well I guess they might have a good reason for doing so." When I truly believe this one change wouldn't break the game or even the healer meta, but still firmly cement Oberon as a capable healer for lower end content, and with the right set up, higher end as well.

I may play on Xbox One now, but I started playing Warframe on PC. I started with excalibur, of course, but the very first Warframe I ever got, hell I was so interested in his concept that I bought plat and purchased Oberon. So, forgive me if I'm a bit passionate about the topic of Oberons rework. I just want a reason to go back to him. And I want him to be amazing. 

 

[Navarc]

So, his problems aren't being addressed. They're slapping on armour stripping & more damage then calling it a day is what I'm seeing from this.
2/3 of my builds are going in the trash, too bad I had a lot of fun with Oberon. My 2nd favourite warframe.

 

[jackswift7]

If the wave from renewal isn't infinite range (can't remember if they stated a range) I may not play him much anymore. I love oberon as a damage dealing healer. Don't care for trinity. And please for the love of all that is hallowed DE, don't make the heal stop when health is max. I will gladly press 3 as much as needed. 

[Kinperor]

I don't think these changes adresse most of the core issues on the kit of Oberon.

 

1. Smite's damage buff sounds good, but it's hardly used for damage, mostly CC.
2. Hallowed ground's core issue is that no one wants to sit on the patch of radiation. It's a combination of the fact that standing still is boring and a death sentence in the game. The ability needs to be more conscious of Warframe's high mobility. I would compromise that, after leaving the AOE, Tenno keeps the buff for as long as he sat on the Hallowed area, affected by power duration. Duration over 100% would give a better ratio of buff duration for time spent on the Hallowed Ground, and vice versa.
3. Renewal is a great heal ability, but the fact is that you need to recast it whenever someone's hurt after being healed to max. I would compare it to the old version of Desecrate, where the skill takes a lot of smashing on occasion. Not as much, mind you, but still, you will need to recast it a lot and it's detrimental to the enjoyment of the game, since you need to stop to cast it again and again. There should be more emphasis on the heal over time.
4. Reckoning is one of these old AOE ults. I think that it would deserve a complete revamp, but otherwise the changes suggested can help it.

The new passive sounds good to me, no complaint here.

 

I would change the ult to focus on it's crowd control, more specifically I suggest this:

• Reckoning: On cast, Oberon drags X/X/X/X (scales with power strength) enemies within X/X/X/X meters (scales with range) of his crosshair into a ball and deal a paltry amount of impact damage. Oberon keeps control of the ball after the initial 'vacuum', using one hand to keep it in the air. Oberon can maintain the ability as long as he wants, but is restrained to one-handed actions (abilities, pistols, melee, etc) and his mobility is limited. Upon recasting the ability, he throws the ball of enemies where he is aiming, dealing damage on impact and bonus damage/effects if landing a shot on Hallowed Ground. Irradiated enemies can be pulled into the balls without counting toward the maximum amount of unit held, and are pulled from farther away.

I know in my post I oppose immobilizing the player, but in this suggested ability, it is done to limit the use of CC without using energy as a limiter. I think such an ability would make the players feel much more powerful than the current Reckoning and add a lot of synergy (using 1 or 2 before 4 makes 4 much stronger) while also being very flexible.

[Thundervision]

I was a fan of his 2 turning into an Mend-like aura (everything is better than a rectangular AoE), but seeing enemies getting Rad-proc'd... gotta say nope. In this case it's pretty good, otherwise it would make Nyx obsolete: not only confusing enemies in range and making them fight each other but also making allies stronger, and you don't even have to re-cast your power. We had enough Irradiated Disarm vs. Nyx forum wars.

 

Renewal tho.

Still isn't good, not even close to the main healer -- Trinity, not even by effects. Sadly, Renewal loses even to Well of Life and Mend.

^TrinityBlessing: it's instant, assuming most Trin players have enough Str to restore 100% HP -- it restores 100% HP instantly, it has a 50m range (67m with Vazarin's passive), it grants you up to 75% DR, more than that it also works on ops, hostages and any other friendly NPC.

^TrinityWell of Life: life-steal, incapacitates the enemy, doesn't consume energy over-time, cheap to use.

^EquinoxMend: accumulates Shield & HP of the killed enemies to, yet again, instantly restore both of yours.

^OberonRenewal: travel time, doesn't grant anything but HP regen and increased Bleedout timer (which can mean, among various circumstances, he didn't do his «better safe than sorry» job), but again, the wave should reach the fallen to apply that effect IF this feature remains the same in the first place. And currently having +Dur for this purpose isn't productive since it reduces duration of applied extra bleedout timer.

Renewal wave:

• Not only regenerates your HP but also increases your HP pool by 150% for the remaining duration of ability.
• HP regeneration: doesn't end at 100% HP. Works on any friendly NPC: hostages, specters, ops, but not on the objectives.
• HP regeneration: the less HP you have the faster regeneration rate.

Hallowed Grounds + Renewal:

• (vanilla) Grants a flat armour buff,
• Grants a status immunity (if not immunity then about +75% Status-resist along with -75% Status-dur),
• Applies a heal aura to Hallowed Grounds with its own regeneration rate for the remaining duration of ability.

HP regeneration: grants a Damage Reduction aura to allies -- the less HP they have the higher DR they receive (which gets reduced over healing time) ^{within HG's range?}

Some of them would definitely help Oberon to get rid of his «a bit of everything that the other frames still do better anyway» curse.

 

About Reckoning... seems OK-ish. The only thing that bothers me is, you gotta still kill the enemy for a chance of them dropping an HP orb, huh.

[Teloch]

1 hour ago, Teloch said:

Make the rejuvenation ability work like a HP regeneration buff that lasts for as long as the modifiable duration allows, does not switch off if recipients' HP are capped, and bears the phoenix renewal buff through all the period.

Basically, make it a health-restoring and death-preventing analog of Rhino's roar.

That easy, really.

 

 

[Red_Bones]

Couldn't agree more - its a malfunctional ability with an augment that completely overlooks that problem in defining its utility.
They could have come up with an augment which works while its active, but no, its one that depends on you healing health, meaning you need either really low duration or really low strength (both core to his other abilities) to make sure it will be on at the right time to take effect.

On the point about "being a worse bless" - things can be worse than bless, but nerfing range does not help make a healer frame do its job as well, especially in this instance where there's travel time (also why) before the weak heal kicks in, so its deserves a boon of some sort at minimum.

[Urlan]

I can agree, its an effect that would greatly benefit from lasting the entire duration instead of how long it doesn't fully heal. Perhaps the status removal on completion could be put on cast to compensate?

[Blakrana]

I'm currently...baffled as to what is going on with Renewal at the moment. As of the moment, I still don't understand why it is a 'Toggle' when there's not really much point to it as it switches itself off when the duration is finished, unlike a true toggle skill. And with it taking on a range aspect similar to Molecular Prime or Polarise, it ends up being much more complicated.

Hopefully there's more revision going to go into it, but if this is all that's going to happen then...yeah, certainly feeling Oberon got the short end of the stick...again.

[DrBorris]

I would argue it should also lose the duration and be a traditional toggle ability, then and only then could Oberon really squeeze a place for himself as an alterative healer to trin.

 

And bring back the projectiles, it would further differentiate him from Trinity by giving him infinite range but with the downside of travel time... and we already have enough AoE things in the game.

[Urlan]

I must have not connected that the range was getting nerfed, thanks for pointing that out, should have with it being changed to simulate Nova's Molecular Priming. Honestly, with reduced range, we would need a much bigger initial heal and for the regen over time to be more meaningful. We don't need to dethrone the Queen of Support, its her niche and Oberon is a combination of support with fighter but moves should be made more effective, not less so.

[Oranji]

I was just about to post something like. Thanks.
Renewal should provided Heal over time for the remaining duration. 
A lot of people have been suggesting this for like years now which I agree as it could definitely provide an "edge" over the all-powerful-Blessing.
The preview I've seen...feels like a much weaker, slower version of Bless with the added Mprime expansion effect.
I really hope that they would reconsider, it's not too late...

The rest of his kit however looks very promising tho.
1. Smite - I hope it stays on the "safe" scaling levels and thoroughly tested out to avoid any future nerfs.
2. Hallowed Ground - I was expecting it to be an "aura" instead but what they did also looks awesome.
4. Hallowed Reckoning - same with Smite more so especially that it's AoE.

Really excited for this. 
I've been waiting for a buff ever since I first played Oberon 3 yrs ago.
 

Edited April 21, 2017 by Oranji
Why do I get the feeling that most players are on the same page with Renewal but DE isn't?