Oberon Feedback 20.3.1 and beyond

[Obe-Ron-Kenobi]

Just now, BeardyKyle said:

casting energy on a single kavat/kubrow target to turn it to your side when your passive ability can do it just by being in range. Not to mention the smite cast will probably kill it anyway. The passive would be way better and its actually really fun turning grineer kubrows against them and watching them get mauled.

I know thats my point, I guess I should've clarified, smite would not do damage to animals, it would essentially work the same just as an activation since I know a lot of players really didn't like the passive. By giving them the option to choose if they want the animals to be a part of their team, it gives the player more freedom to experiment.

[PsiWarp]

The only change I would give to Reckoning is making Health Orbs spawn more consistently. Reckoning's flat damage falls off very quickly, and tying orb chance to kills by the ability is a one-way ticket to not making it a relevant feature for high levels.

Edited May 3, 2017 by PsiWarp

[BeardyKyle]

3 minutes ago, Oni_Spartan4 said:

I know thats my point, I guess I should've clarified, smite would not do damage to animals, it would essentially work the same just as an activation since I know a lot of players really didn't like the passive. By giving them the option to choose if they want the animals to be a part of their team, it gives the player more freedom to experiment.

i think the only problem people had wiht the passive is not being able to kill them only they're under your control. Specifically your other teammates would run into that and end up wasting bullets cause if you're as oberon player you either avoid killing them to get the passive off, or you kill them before. 

Either way, the passive really grew on me and I'd like it back, in addition to what he has now. Tbh I only use a huras kubrow for spy missions, otherwise it's all about Djinn.

[Zwillan]

7 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

It doesn't need to scale. The current CC/debuff and side damage that it does is already perfect enough.

I don't see whats so bad about having it scale a little bit to keep the damage relevant in higher levels, plus this would encourage the player to CC and heal more often to take advantage of the burst heal from irradiated enemies. 

This wouldn't be press 4 to win or anything since you can't spam it because the damage would have to build up over time. It would be more of something you would use when the squad is being overwhelmed and taking a lot of damage.

[Obe-Ron-Kenobi]

9 minutes ago, BeardyKyle said:

i think the only problem people had wiht the passive is not being able to kill them only they're under your control. Specifically your other teammates would run into that and end up wasting bullets cause if you're as oberon player you either avoid killing them to get the passive off, or you kill them before. 

Either way, the passive really grew on me and I'd like it back, in addition to what he has now. Tbh I only use a huras kubrow for spy missions, otherwise it's all about Djinn.

I argue that an addition to an active ability allows more player input and utility than the previous passive since it wouldn't be a temporary effect. Before it was what, about 10 seconds of niche upon niche? My proposition for smite would allow the animal mobs to become members of your team until death, a more permanent and tangible effect than he previously had (plus his current passive would stack on the animals you control which sounds pretty neat). I agree in that I'm in favor of bringing the cat ladies a taste of their own medicine every time I play Oberon, but not the way it was before, and to me, a passive wouldn't allow enough player input regarding mob control.

Edited May 3, 2017 by Oni_Spartan4

[BeardyKyle]

13 minutes ago, Oni_Spartan4 said:

I argue that an addition to an active ability allows more player input and utility than the previous passive since it wouldn't be a temporary effect. Before it was what, about 10 seconds of niche upon niche? My proposition for smite would allow the animal mobs to become members of your team until death, a more permanent and tangible effect than he previously had (plus his current passive would stack on the animals you control which sounds pretty neat). I agree in that I'm in favor of bringing the cat ladies a taste of their own medicine every time I play Oberon, but not the way it was before, and to me, a passive wouldn't allow enough player input regarding mob control.

true but it just seems like a tedius niche to have to cast to do that to single targets (not counting orbs because there's no guarantee they hit pets). I mean there's already Hallowed Ground that can proc a group of enemies potentially turning them. The passive just seems better to me. The player still has an amount of control over it, as in you know your range and how long it takes to turn pets and how long they stay on your side if they go out of range. Would be easier to tweak the AI of enemy pets under your control to function more like your own, or to stay closer to you and extend the duration - which I think is 20s after they go out of range, which was 20m i think - which isn't bad at all. 

[Obe-Ron-Kenobi]

13 minutes ago, BeardyKyle said:

true but it just seems like a tedius niche to have to cast to do that to single targets (not counting orbs because there's no guarantee they hit pets). I mean there's already Hallowed Ground that can proc a group of enemies potentially turning them. The passive just seems better to me. The player still has an amount of control over it, as in you know your range and how long it takes to turn pets and how long they stay on your side if they go out of range. Would be easier to tweak the AI of enemy pets under your control to function more like your own, or to stay closer to you and extend the duration - which I think is 20s after they go out of range, which was 20m i think - which isn't bad at all. 

perhaps hallowed ground is a better ability to stick the animal passive to, i never thought of that but I like it very much! i guess we can't really agree upon weather it should be an active or a passive but I'm glad someone shares the opinion that the animal mobs were cool and should still be implemented.

Edited May 3, 2017 by Oni_Spartan4

[sulusdacor]

played him a bit more.

overall i personaly would like his kit to become a bit simpler. meaning in terms of the abilites for themself. oberon is moste likely a frame people pick up after rhino. maybe not right away, but they will get him quite early (i assume). in his current if a new player would get oberon especially his 3 and 2 are a mess. you will need to look up excatly whats going on there in terms of abilities. which could be okay for later frames, like equinox. But for frames you get early i find they should be easy to pick up and hard to master. meaning you should get the general idea of the abilites by using them and seeing whats happening. if abilites have 3,4 or more effects. this will confuse new players or just enfoce the need to look up information on outside sources, which was/is a general "problem" with the game. so in terms of new "player friendlyness" his abilities need to have less "base" effects. the current other stuff could be put in the synergies.

another thing to point out here, that rage is quite a rare mod you can aquire in the void the earliest if i remebr corretly. it is currently a bit of a must have on oberon to regain energy. so a new player will not have that mod and will very early run into problems with energy making the frame not fun to play most likely. so this energy issue needs to be adressed.

in general i would love to have abilites to have around 2 base effects. if i combo them then there could be another effect added. a combo could although just increase the damage by a bit. there are several options for synergy boni, to not make them a requirement. his abilites feel very overloaded and it is an issue the comes through in most comments i read.

for example:

smite

currently has damage (+%hp dmg), knockdown, puncture debuff, radiation proc. compared to most other first abilites this is already way over the top. if the damage and percent health damage would stay together with a knockdown this would already be a good first abiliy. if cast on an high hp target it can still do good damage to fodder enemies in higher levels. The knockdown is cc. so even if the damage falls off u have the cc. which is the way most other 1st abilites work. so why are the other effects tagged on there?

these could be synergy effects. cast smite on enemy on hallowed ground either get the radiation proc or if the enemy is already proced, refresh it duration. if cast in range of renewal, enemy gets the puncture debuff.

hallowed ground

it is an aoe dot, that has a chance to give enemies status procs and gives friends status immunity. this are quite a lot of effects in one ability. it would love to see the status proc immunity to friendlys moved to hallowed ground + renewal combination. so if i either cast renewal on hallowed ground or the other way around your allies get the proc immunity. hallowed ground would still be good. but you only would have the aoe dot, that inflicts status.

renewal

it is currently a hot that slows bleedout too. with the armor synergy between it and hallowed ground this effect is kinda required too in later content. to that comes the very complicated energy consumption calculation. what i would love to see a flat drain for the energy consumption. does the hot not run all the time? why are we having different values for targets in range. it is on, so it will drain end of story. one energy drain. this would clean up the ui in the ability screen to. make it a hot that gives the armor buff too. so the effect of the ability would be hot with armor buff.

if cast or moved into range of hallowed it could give the status proc immunity like described above.

reckoning

it has aoe slam, armor reduction, health orb drop chance, blind and bonus damage on hallowed ground. so again a bunch of effects packed in one ability. let it be and aoe dmg with armor strip. if the armor strip would be a synergy it would make this a requirement. so i feel this effect should stay in the base ability. now the blind could ba the synergy effect if cast on hallowed ground. you basicly would get a guarented cc effect on the "cc carpet". if you have renewal running you would get a health orb drop chance. so other then rage this would be an option to regen energy with equilibrium. for that the health orb drop chance i feel the effect needs to occur if it is cast on an enemy.  so some sort of "stripping" health from enemys. you will not kill stuff all the time and it would make oberon usefull even late game.

passive

not a fan of the animals myself. fix the issues with them first (vacuum, ai). then maybe this could be usefull. but it still feel not fitting to the theme of oberon. something to help energy efficiency or pool. i would love to see a spell combo counter. or mabe some sort of growth mechanic to fit the nature thing he has going for him.

some other random things to note:

- i played a while without primed flow and only his base energy pool. it was a pain to manage his energy and a bigger pool is defnility needed. making flow or the primed version a must have.

- the heal + armor buff is quite good and if you keep moving a bit it is very usefull even in the later levels. you still can get one shot, but that is an overall problem not related to the skill, but the enemy scaling. the heal amount+ armor amount seem in a good place. (personaly would love some % armor in there to aid tankier frames too, but the hot does this in a way. so kinda fine)

- the toggle heal is a nice addition, but on the other hand if you choose to go for a heal build you turn it on then nothing other special is going on with oberon. it makes his game play like any other gunplay frame. but you have a hot running on the side. it is very good for mission typs you run through the levels and provides good support.

 

thx for reading.

fight on tenno.

[The_Grimmrock]

to the above, I cannot begin to explain why this kit would be hot garbage, but Im going to try:

Removing the confusion and weaken secondary effects off his first ability means that a non caster non tank frame now no longer has diversionary CC. this is death post pluto.

removing the status immunity off hallowed ground. aside from being used to make rekoning actually useful as a skill, you would literally have no reason to cast this skill for the 50 eng it costs. it would in effect be completely worthless as anything more than a realistcly extra cost to his 3 and 4.

his renewal you didnt change much, and we pretty much all want the cost to be fixed. attaching more S#&$ to it as a combo is still hot garbage though, because it basically pins his entire kit on one somewhat S#&$ty energy draining skill that disallows any regen outside of rage. this is garbage, steaming hot garbage. fresh from the zoo.

reckoning. holy S#&$. so 

I get you on the whole lot in the kti, but you can basically ignore the health orbs, because thats not happening in later content. most of us agree the armor strip should be in the base kit. removing the blind and attaching it as a synergy to hallowed ground is S#&$ tier worthless, because it only affects the guys around the target, which generally happen to be people you were already thowing, and doesnt appear to actually stop them from shooting you beyond being slammed. the actual CC comes from the random radiation proc actually working and diverting fire, which is. . .not often enough.. again, putting more S#&$ onto hallowed ground is &#!. 

we're also pretty behind you on the passive, I dont know who's got the hardon for pets, but until universal vaccum in a PVE murder game thats about bang bang and move on, they really arent useful outside the smeeta (and thats for an entirely other half broken reason). so yeah, a new passive is in order realistically. I like the idea of an ability combo meter, encourages casting skills together, the question is to waht benefit. 

all the little extra things in his kit that make it seem like there are so many extra fuckin things in his kit are actually one hundred percent necessary to keep him from being a one button S#&$heel of a Frame. Imagine if Vauban was reduced to an electric fence Bastille, and that's all he offered, because realistically the kit above is essentially that: A guy that provides some armor and H/o/T. which is damned close ot what he is now. which is why we're *@##$ing so much about it. 

this is an honest critique of your proposed kit. its a raging dumpster fire. the kit. NOT YOU. I AM NOT JUDGING YOU. 

 

THE KIT IS GARBADO.

[P0Pz]

15 hours ago, Oni_Spartan4 said:

You man this is wicked creativity, I gotta complment you on that. Unfortunately I don't think DE is in a position to completely rework the frame, nor do they want to, so unfortunately ideas like this sadly go down the drain. That's why I want to focus on making the current Oberon the best he can possibly be with the kit he's given, which is what I aim to figure out how to do.

 

However, I recommend posting what you did here on the community created content page of the forums. I remember someone posted something about a beastmaster frame there, this would provide a big boost for their post I'm sure. Thanks again for the support!

Thanks buddy <3

Well at least it could inspire the Devs to be creative as well. 

Hmm why can't Oberon get a "Silince" skill/effect within his current kit?

-------

Mind Crisis:

-------

"Enchants in a area targets, causing them to be damaged and silinced if they cast a spell or if the enchantment timer expires..."

Target(s) get silinced for 4/6/8/10 seconds.

So bombers casting theire nuke bombs or infested trying to "cast" theire healings ect or nullies try to recast theire bubbles get "silinced" for the duration. If they are still within the silince area and try again to recast, the silince effect and duration is doubled. 

----

Would be something total new in WF. A silencer effect. Great support skill.

If it would be a real skill for a current frame or a new "anti caster" frame,

The skill could be named "Mind Crisis".

Which could also reduces the armor vs skill dmg, not physical dmg....would be interesting 😎

Edited May 3, 2017 by P0Pz

[Buzkyl]

A small change that would greatly improve's Oberon's current energy-intensive kit as well as solidify him in a team composition as a viable support frame.

• Enemies afflicted by Reckoning who are standing on Hallowed Ground will spawn an energy orb instead of a health orb.

 

However even with this change, Oberon Reckoning would suffer from the same set backs as Hydroid's old Pilfering swarm- When the ability can no longer kill, the effect is useless. Which leads to change #2

• Reckoning no requires enemies to be killed to produce an orb. Enemies must be killed within 8s of being affected by Reckoning for the orb condition to be met.

 

Summarising

1. Reckoning No longer requires kills to produce orbs, but requires the target to be killed within a timefrme of being selected.
2. Enemies standing on hallowed ground who are afflicted by Reckoning have will spawn energy orbs instead of health orbs. If they're not on HG they will spawn health orbs as normal.

Edited May 3, 2017 by Buzkyl

[AdunSaveMe]

I don't think requiring a cast of his most expensive ability for a chance at energy is really going to solve anything.

It'd be better if he got a small amount off energy from, for example, killing rad-proc'd enemies with melee, like Saryn.

[Sziklamester]

The most energy cost ability on the current Oberon is the renewal and while active no EV trin can help him to regain his lost energy. Oberon needs a larger energy pool to be a more better all around / caster and he needs atleast 1 ability which or creates energy orbs or can passively regain energy back. 

[Buzkyl]

5 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

I don't think requiring a cast of his most expensive ability for a chance at energy is really going to solve anything.

It'd be better if he got a small amount off energy from, for example, killing rad-proc'd enemies with melee, like Saryn.

Energy orbs already drops off enemies, this change allows Oberon to spawn more energy orbs not for himself but for his team. Yes there are other possibilities for oberon to regain energy for himself, but i wanted a method that benefited the entire squad.

[SDGDen]

rage+renewal. thank me later.

 

edit: this is in reply to the energy intensive part, not helping his team.

Edited May 3, 2017 by SupremeDutchGamer

[Sziklamester]

I am using equilibrium for this case and I can both regain hp and energy in same time but if Nekros can do something for the team then Oberon should do almost the same at least. Energy is precisious.

[Koed]

Really anxious to see if any changes are coming tonight. I really REALLY hope so!

[LunarEdge7]

On ‎28‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 8:04 AM, StopherSylvia said:

"No reason to stand in Hallowed Ground after Renewal and Reckoning are cast"

The one and only reason we have now is status and knock-off immunity, but the base range of HG isn't really enough for us to deem as worthy of standing around in, and we'd rather roll, jump and flip, I think.

[IceColdHawk]

49 minutes ago, SupremeDutchGamer said:

rage+renewal. thank me later.

Sure, if you don't want to use his other abilities nor play over lvl 70.

[Tenedranox]

[DE]Scott said they want to get the rework sunk in and then have a look again, so here are my thoughts after playing oberon for a week:

Smite

It's awesome now, it scale insanely well, but the projectiles can get stuck, vanish or cycle around enemies. So the hit-rate is the problem here, giving it a lower turning angle and build in punch trough would solve that. Other than that, thumbs up

Hallowed Ground

Well, this ability in its current state is only there....for buffing his other abilities, which is a bit odd/sad.
There are multiple things which bother me as a player. Hallowed Ground is probably the only ability which doesnt scale with power range like all other abilities do.

Mathematical rant about its range:

Spoiler

Power range increases its area content by the given range percentage, however all other abilities scale with edge length or radius only, depending on the shape. Lets take Frosts Ice Wave as comparison, both abilities are a cone (to be more precise Frosts is a triangle) and their angle and radius (on the ability HUD Frosts radius is displayed as wave length) scale with power range, so they should act similiar, imo.

Frosts Ice Wave scales with 100% of his power range in all stats! However the angle is capped at 60. How does Oberons Hallowed Ground scale? Well like i said, its area content gets scaled, even worse, the focus is on scaling the angle instead of the radius to create the given area content. To make myself more clear here: The area content of a cone, can be increased by increasing either the radius or the angle, or ofc both. And the formula for Hallowed Ground lets it scale the angle more and the radius just by a small margin.

The base values are an angle of 180 degrees and a radius of 15 meters with 250% power range those scale up to 360 degrees and .....20.63 meters....so 250% result in an increase of the radius of 37.53%....u dont know about you, dear reader, but i dont have eyeballs in my backhead, id like to affect enemies in front of me instead of behind me (might not be bad to hit enemies behind me, however id like to see it scale mainly in front of me)

So the base area content of Hallowed Ground gets increased by +150% with 250% power range and how much does Ice Wave scale? So if i have done the math correctly Ice Wave has a base area content of 165,68 m³. With 250% power range it scales up to 1443,38 m³, so its area content gets increased by +771,15%. This unlinear behaviour reagarding area content should be true for any other ability, but Hallowed Ground.

The math:

Spoiler

Frosts Ice Wave might not be a rectangular triangle, but u can half it to get one (imagine the adjacent as the cut edge)

We have given the angle and the adjacent as wave length, so we are looking for the opposite so we can multiple it with the adjacent to get the area content.

arcustangent(x/20)=45/2

x=8.28m for base values

arcustangent(x/50)=60/2

x=28.87m with 250% power range

tested those values ingame and they should fit. However i have no clue what "Wave length" in the ability HUD stands for......

 

So im questioning, why?

Furthermore, back in the days Hallowed Ground was useful for players when u stood on it, now its only useful for half a second or so while receiveing the buff. It has a cleanse effect tho, but thats it. Would like to see some more buffs for players who stand on it, like increased effects of the renewal buffs or so, because there is no real reason why u would like to stand on it....

...speaking of standing on it, the last thing i complain about Hallowed Ground is its area of effect, not the range of it, but the area it affects: only the ground it can travel to (like nidus 1) as if it would walk. When u try to buff a teammate who stands on a box u wont buff them, unless u cast Hallowed Ground on top of the box. That u have to stand on it to be affected is fine, but it should affect at least every ground in its area of effect, imo.

 

Renewal

The changes to this ability made him pretty viable! Nothing really to complain about here.

(HUD is inconsistent and bugs sometimes, but thats no mechanical issue)

 

Reckoning

So what should this ability actually do? I can understand the Oberon the a jack of all trades, but i wouldnt say that Frost is a dedicated damage dealer, but no matter how u put it: Reckoning is inferior to Avalanche in most regards. Avalanche has build in armor reduction, at base 40% compared to 30% when cast with Hallowed Ground, they share the same range, Avalanche deals a bit more damage (deals bonus damage if it kills an enemy, comparable with bonus damage reckoning deals against enemies affected by a radiation proc) and has the superior CC, even though it lasts a bit shorter, an immobilize is much stronger than a radiation proc.

Depending on the point of view Reckoning is inferior or equal to Avalanche. Avalanche is just an example here, if Oberon is a jack of all trades, than his abilities should do a lot good, but nothing better, but compared to Avalanche is does the same...worse.

However it possess some interesting mechanics which cant be compared to Avalanche, but they are just too odd or weak to be recognisable. It can drop health orbs if it kills an enemy, however imo the moment when u need health orbs is when u cant kill them so easily, would love to see it the other way around. Let it drop health orbs upon affecting enemies, not upon killing them. The blind effect might be a strong cc, but the aoe is just too small to be helpful in most situations, at least this is my experience with it.

 

In summary: Smite is pretty nice, Hallowed Ground needs desperately a second look, Renewal is frcking awesome and Reckoning has an identity crisis even though its ok.

Well thats it, thank you for your attention.

[Windy_Wind]

I would like to keep the health orb drop thou, because if they change the drop to on HIT, he will  be viable for health conversion and equilibrium which also fix the energy hunger at the same time. However, why not both.

Edited May 3, 2017 by Windy_Wind

[An8rchy]

All i want is: 
-Renewal to not have a reverse suration/streght calculation
-Hg to have the armor buff again w/o the synergy (as a % not a flat number and not affected by the synergy bonus armor)
-Make Hg an Aura
-Revert Renewal to infinite regen state
-Make Reckoning to scale as Cataclysm
-Make Reckoning drop hp orbs 25% on hit.

Just everything to make Oberon a Great Tank/Support (Since hes a Paladin)

[SamuraiPizza]

Do you believe that the energy drain on Renewal needs further consideration?

[(PSN)destroyerchris1]

If nothing else they really need to overhaul the horrible visuals on hollowed ground... I know they said they were working on it I just hope that they actually are and that wasn't just a throw it under the rug statement. It's BARELY visible in the perfect conditions. In imperfect conditions it's invisible. Disappears with lighting. Disappears when other powers are on it. Disappears in water. Disappears whenever the ground isn't perfectly flat. Has no defined boundary so its border basically blends into the ground. The visuals have so many issues and just look bad and bland visually and it's bad functionally.

Edited May 3, 2017 by (PS4)destroyerchris1

[BeardyKyle]

three things Oberon needs to be complete imo.

1. Add an armor buff back to HG, even if its a % increase.

2. If Oberon and an irradiated enemy are both on hallowed ground and oberon kills the enemy, he gets a small energy refund.

both of these add proper synergy to what exists now, gives you a reason to stay on hallowed ground and addresses the high energy consumption he now has.

3. Roll his old passive into his new one.

this imo, gives him a complete beastmaster passive that doesn't force you to use pets and plus new wildlife is coming and that's awesome.