Oberon Feedback 20.3.1 and beyond

[Obe-Ron-Kenobi]

I wrote a really extensive look at reworking his abilities in the main megathread, would you mind if I posted it here?

Edited May 2, 2017 by Oni_Spartan4

[Schtirk]

12 minutes ago, Evanescent said:

Reckoning:

It's range is too short. Needs more range.

Armor stripping should scale with total enemy armor at all times. This lets armor be stripped with a few casts with sufficient power strength.

Enemies should have a slow recovery speed to give more CC.

Letting enemies be trapped if reckoning is used on Hallowed Ground would be cool, for even more CC!

I mostly agree. The armor reduction should be inherent, but all enemies that are standing on Hallowed Ground and that are affected by Reckoning should be blinded. To counter this, remove the blind mechanic from enemies that were standing outside the initial blast.

And yes, HG needs more range for this to be an effective tactic.

[NightmareT12]

Didn't you open the same topic some days ago? Seems like it's been merged to the "Megathread". Why open another with the same content?

[Obe-Ron-Kenobi]

Alright so I want to clarify some things before I post this.

• I DO NOT want to make Oberon OP.
• I DO NOT want to witch hunt members of DE for the rework or DE as a company.
• I DO NOT want DE to leave Oberon as is.

Change can only happen if criticism is constructive and specific and that is exactly how I want this rework to go. Please provide me with any feedback you can so that it can be discussed and a verdict is reached, if a decision to change anything stated is reasonable and properly justified by the community I will make edits to this post. I understand that this post will likely get lost within the mega thread so if you like any suggestions, keep the post alive by providing legitimate feedback. This is an attempt to come to a conclusion as a community for what we want to change with Oberon. Without further ado, lets get started.

Passive Proposed Changes:

• Oberon possesses an innate 'Rage' effect at 30% damage to energy conversion as well as an innate "Guardian Derision" effect when blocking which scales in range relative to the edge of Hallowed ground (with a minimum of 10m)
• Posesses the same passive including the one above

  Reveal hidden contents

I first saw this suggestion by Marrikbroom when discussing Oberon's paladin theme. As he is able to take damage (as seen by Xenogelion's build) Oberon should have the ability to pull aggro towards him and gain energy from it naturally. This in ideal scenarios, helps manage the CC Oberon provides with his radiation procs. Ideally, enemies won't be focused on teammates or Oberon but each other, when they are not however (or when Oberon needs energy/ distraction from a downed teammate), Oberon should have the ability to direct the flow of battle towards himself, and blocking is a great way to do so. By scaling with the range of Hallowed Ground, Oberon is encouraged to do most fighting on HG which helps with the synergy of his entire kit.

including this buff as well as the current one does not seem overpowered as

1. Sentinels are more abundantly used by the community than companions
2. At higher levels the bonuses seem negligible
3. with the additions to smite listed here, it would add motivation to take control of animals and give players more options on the field. 

Thats my point, by having these qualities as a combined passive (that could stack with mods) players wouldn't need to worry about those mods being "mandatory" to their build, just a nice addition so they could focus on other modding combinations. If a player wanted to include 'rage' or 'guardian derision' they still could and receive considerable benefits from them and the option to build around them. Though I think I see a point of criticism,"if i got a free buff for my mods, why wouldn't I maximize that buff? That doesn't solve a problem that just makes an existing problem worse" But I would argue that that exact point helps strengthen mine. Any Oberon build you make requires you to sacrifice something (be it power strength, range, efficiency etc.) But the suggested passive instead gives the player more freedom to decide weather they want to make "the ultimate rage aggro build" or just use the passive as a bonus and add a mod like energy conversion instead. This gives players more freedom to experiment, something I think is crucial to the "feel" of Oberon.

Smite Proposed Changes:

• Kubrows and Kavats hit by smite (and adjacent projectiles) will join your party until their death, receiving companion buffs. Number of animals influenced at a time by Oberon scales with power duration (1-7 animals at a time). (Animals act as members of the squad and do not delay extraction)

  Reveal hidden contents

Currently, I for one am satisfied with the damage/minor CC it provides. It would be nice if the orbs did not scale in the split manner that they do now, but there are ways around that without being to big of an issue and I have enjoyed the playstyle so far, I only want to include one change. Since this ability relies heavily off of which target is initially hit by Smite (and since I have heard some of the community complain about the previous passive being removed) would it be possible to incorporate the previous passive within smite? This correlates to Oberon's theme, provides a small but useful niche, and I know the developers were at first very adamant to keep this passive when it first came out. 

To the best of my knowledge, this is not overpowered, but requires some play testing in order to get the balancing and numbers right, something I don't know if the developers are willing to go through and program. 

 

Hallowed Ground Proposed Changes:

• Adjust Ability angle to 360 degrees by default
• Ability to "pick up" Hallowed Ground as an Aura and move with the ability centered around Oberon. Pick up works similar to Volt's riot shield, being an activation prompt in the middle of HG. Moving with Hallowed Ground as an Aura reduces the range by 1.5x and drains energy based off of Power Efficiency (proposed 1-2 energy per second at base). Once Hallowed Ground is "dropped" it continues the duration timer where it left off when "picked up".
• Ability radius (base) of Aura: 10m
• Ability radius (base) while stationary 15-20m
• Enemies affected by radiation on Hallowed Ground give Oberon 1 energy, enemies killed on Hallowed Ground give Oberon 5 energy per kill, enemies killed on Hallowed Ground while irradiated give Oberon 6 energy

 

  Reveal hidden contents

In my opinion, this is Oberon's Achilles heel. The update made every ability he has synergize with hallowed ground in some way, but the issue arises that Hallowed Ground is not effective enough as it is now in order to have such a dramatic role in Oberon's kit. In my opinion (with 20% overall usage of Oberon for 454 hours of mission time), Oberon's playstyle should, in theory, maintain this dependence on hallowed ground. Yet, given how much the game has changed since Oberon was introduced, hallowed ground is simply outclassed by so many other "camping" abilities (or straight up replaced by aura abilities) to be useful anymore. In order to change this, I believe that it is vital for Oberon to be able to pick up and utilize Hallowed Ground as an aura and be placed wherever the situation deems necessary (be it a choke point, defense objective, revival spot). Decreasing the range in aura form encourages the transition period from point A to point B to be temporary, without leaving Oberon or allies vulnerable when it is time to move. This also doesn't leave Oberon or the team at a disadvantage (or to stop game play) if faster allies are ahead of renewals range when Oberon casts iron renewal since he should feasibly be able to always be around the group to provide support. However, such a big mechanic change may not be desirable from DE, and therefore I highly doubt this will be implemented (But, they did it with volt's shield so here's to hoping!)

By still giving Oberon the advantage to place multiple Hallowed Ground's, a player can maintain a wide area of strategic coverage (if they build for range and place in correct locations), for situations that require players to stay in one place for defensive CC. This brings Oberon on par with Limbo and Frost but is more comparable to Nyx due to radiation. However, because of the independent nature of radiation, Nyx is still superior to Oberon which is the point entirely: Oberon preforms a task done by other frames effectively and situational, but not to the point where the other frame is rendered obsolete.

This is further supported by the proposed energy regeneration from hallowed ground. Coupled with the suggested passive, Oberon's current energy dilemma is far better managed. I do not believe the conjunction of both is overpowered however, due to the fact that Rage energy recovery is convenient but unreliable (due to the risk of death) while hallowed ground is reliable but inconvenient recovery. The two work together to allow Oberon a constant intake of energy. Also, considering the high cost of his abilities and the necessity to recast many of them or channel them, Oberon requires a source of energy replenishment (which he cannot receive currently from energy restores or Energy Vampire or Zenurik).

I cannot see a valid reason as to why HG is not a circle by default. 360 degrees around Oberon on cast, I find, is necessary. This provides a larger area of coverage without having to mod, a simpler and more approachable way to mod, and synergy with reckoning. As it stands, if I were to cast reckoning, surrounded by enemies behind me and in front of me, only half would receive the armor debuff as HG only covers 180 degrees around Oberon. It is also the general consensus of the Community that power strength is a necessity for Oberon's effectiveness. With this in mind, Overextended is not worth using as it forces a player to sacrifice the greatest utility for Oberon at higher levels: armor reduction. A full circle does not eliminate the range problem but allows the range problem to be addressed via normal modding and is practically 2x the coverage for his main CC ability (which, given its short range, should be standard).

Renewal Proposed Changes:

• Flat cost for renewal per tic

  Reveal hidden contents

Honestly I don't see anything wrong with renewal as it currently is. However, as stated by Brozime and Marrikbroom, you are punished for healing teammates because of energy taxation on a low energy pool This would eliminate that problem.

 

Reckoning Proposed Changes:

• Base armor reduction value set to 50%
• Health orb drop on hit 50%
• Energy orb drop on hit 50%
• Blind proc base range 8 meters
• Blind proc base duration 8 seconds

  Reveal hidden contents

Given that frames such as Frost and Ash can strip armor more effectively than a support frame intended to debuff armor is in my mind, unjust. THIS DOES NOT MEAN I WANT A NERF TO THOSE ABILITIES!!! It simply means that I want Oberon to fulfill that role so that those and other frames may capitalize further on their strengths instead of added bonuses. Buffing the innate armor reduction to 50% (which is still dependent on HG) allows for far less of an energy output to receive similar affects but given the fact that Oberon must use over half of his energy (at base WITH primed flow on top of a 50 cost from HG) this should not be seen as a problem. As far as the corrosive projection argument goes, I prefer to run without it if I can. I do not want there to be mandatory aura's for all frames and running with a four stack of players with CP renders the armor stripping affect of Reckoning useless in the first place. By giving the player the freedom to explore different build possibilities with auras builds can become more variable and customized for a specific goal and as long as Oberon can armor strip on his own, I don't see why i need CP on top of that.

Health orbs and energy orbs make the cephalon mods viable. The only Frame I am aware of that can benefit from those buffs however, is Nekros. By allowing the health drop to be on hit, more players can utilize these otherwise very niche mods, as well as equilibrium, into their builds. On top of that, it encourages other players to stay by Oberon and his Hallowed Ground, something Oberon needs in order to support properly. rewarding players by working cooperatively with health and energy pickups is a good thing in my opinion.

Excalibur has a blind radius of 25m at base, Inaros at 15m. Though unasked for, the blind inclusion on Reckoning is a nice touch, but far to small to be useful. a small Buff would do it wonders.

Overall I'd say the rework as it is now, is good (great in some players eyes) but left unfinished as it portrays Oberon as something he's not. Oberon should have the ability to use all of his abilities to their best effectiveness and provide a role on any team while stronger frames do the majority of the work. I don't want Oberon to overshadow any frame, but I want him to have a unique position/play style that makes players consider him rather than immediately call him trash. An Oberon, in my opinion, should be able to have the versatility to mod distinctively to fit any mission type and not excel at any one, but be able to contribute to each. Perhaps this is a bit much to ask, but the proposed changes, in my opinion, give him a more tangible role and distinctive feel.

I want to do whatever I can to encourage DE to keep up the good work and to not be finished with him just yet. Though some buffs to his base stats (energy, armor) would be greatly appreciated, I guess its a wait for the prime release. However, if Oberon isn't improved upon any, or given a unique position, I guarantee I wont be spending money on a shinier version of him. 

(please respond with any feedback you have, its greatly appreciated, and thank you for reading)

[Evanescent]

4 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

Didn't you open the same topic some days ago? Seems like it's been merged to the "Megathread". Why open another with the same content?

I'm going to imagine you either did not read either topic, and/or not read the 'revised' in the title.

[Evanescent]

Just now, Oni_Spartan4 said:

Alright so I want to clarify some things before I post this.

• I DO NOT want to make Oberon OP.
• I DO NOT want to witch hunt members of DE for the rework or DE as a company.
• I DO NOT want DE to leave Oberon as is.

Change can only happen if criticism is constructive and specific and that is exactly how I want this rework to go. Please provide me with any feedback you can so that it can be discussed and a verdict is reached, if a decision to change anything stated is reasonable and properly justified by the community I will make edits to this post. I understand that this post will likely get lost within the mega thread so if you like any suggestions, keep the post alive by providing legitimate feedback. This is an attempt to come to a conclusion as a community for what we want to change with Oberon. Without further ado, lets get started.

Passive Proposed Changes:

• Oberon possesses an innate 'Rage' effect at 30% damage to energy conversion as well as an innate "Guardian Derision" effect when blocking which scales in range relative to the edge of Hallowed ground (with a minimum of 10m)
• Posesses the same passive including the one above

  Reveal hidden contents

I first saw this suggestion by Marrikbroom when discussing Oberon's paladin theme. As he is able to take damage (as seen by Xenogelion's build) Oberon should have the ability to pull aggro towards him and gain energy from it naturally. This in ideal scenarios, helps manage the CC Oberon provides with his radiation procs. Ideally, enemies won't be focused on teammates or Oberon but each other, when they are not however (or when Oberon needs energy/ distraction from a downed teammate), Oberon should have the ability to direct the flow of battle towards himself, and blocking is a great way to do so. By scaling with the range of Hallowed Ground, Oberon is encouraged to do most fighting on HG which helps with the synergy of his entire kit.

including this buff as well as the current one does not seem overpowered as

1. Sentinels are more abundantly used by the community than companions
2. At higher levels the bonuses seem negligible
3. with the additions to smite listed here, it would add motivation to take control of animals and give players more options on the field. 

Thats my point, by having these qualities as a combined passive (that could stack with mods) players wouldn't need to worry about those mods being "mandatory" to their build, just a nice addition so they could focus on other modding combinations. If a player wanted to include 'rage' or 'guardian derision' they still could and receive considerable benefits from them and the option to build around them. Though I think I see a point of criticism,"if i got a free buff for my mods, why wouldn't I maximize that buff? That doesn't solve a problem that just makes an existing problem worse" But I would argue that that exact point helps strengthen mine. Any Oberon build you make requires you to sacrifice something (be it power strength, range, efficiency etc.) But the suggested passive instead gives the player more freedom to decide weather they want to make "the ultimate rage aggro build" or just use the passive as a bonus and add a mod like energy conversion instead. This gives players more freedom to experiment, something I think is crucial to the "feel" of Oberon.

Smite Proposed Changes:

• Kubrows and Kavats hit by smite (and adjacent projectiles) will join your party until their death, receiving companion buffs. Number of animals influenced at a time by Oberon scales with power duration (1-7 animals at a time). (Animals act as members of the squad and do not delay extraction)

  Reveal hidden contents

Currently, I for one am satisfied with the damage/minor CC it provides. It would be nice if the orbs did not scale in the split manner that they do now, but there are ways around that without being to big of an issue and I have enjoyed the playstyle so far, I only want to include one change. Since this ability relies heavily off of which target is initially hit by Smite (and since I have heard some of the community complain about the previous passive being removed) would it be possible to incorporate the previous passive within smite? This correlates to Oberon's theme, provides a small but useful niche, and I know the developers were at first very adamant to keep this passive when it first came out. 

To the best of my knowledge, this is not overpowered, but requires some play testing in order to get the balancing and numbers right, something I don't know if the developers are willing to go through and program. 

 

Hallowed Ground Proposed Changes:

• Adjust Ability angle to 360 degrees by default
• Ability to "pick up" Hallowed Ground as an Aura and move with the ability centered around Oberon. Pick up works similar to Volt's riot shield, being an activation prompt in the middle of HG. Moving with Hallowed Ground as an Aura reduces the range by 1.5x and drains energy based off of Power Efficiency (proposed 1-2 energy per second at base). Once Hallowed Ground is "dropped" it continues the duration timer where it left off when "picked up".
• Ability radius (base) of Aura: 10m
• Ability radius (base) while stationary 15-20m
• Enemies affected by radiation on Hallowed Ground give Oberon 1 energy, enemies killed on Hallowed Ground give Oberon 5 energy per kill, enemies killed on Hallowed Ground while irradiated give Oberon 6 energy

 

  Reveal hidden contents

In my opinion, this is Oberon's Achilles heel. The update made every ability he has synergize with hallowed ground in some way, but the issue arises that Hallowed Ground is not effective enough as it is now in order to have such a dramatic role in Oberon's kit. In my opinion (with 20% overall usage of Oberon for 454 hours of mission time), Oberon's playstyle should, in theory, maintain this dependence on hallowed ground. Yet, given how much the game has changed since Oberon was introduced, hallowed ground is simply outclassed by so many other "camping" abilities (or straight up replaced by aura abilities) to be useful anymore. In order to change this, I believe that it is vital for Oberon to be able to pick up and utilize Hallowed Ground as an aura and be placed wherever the situation deems necessary (be it a choke point, defense objective, revival spot). Decreasing the range in aura form encourages the transition period from point A to point B to be temporary, without leaving Oberon or allies vulnerable when it is time to move. This also doesn't leave Oberon or the team at a disadvantage (or to stop game play) if faster allies are ahead of renewals range when Oberon casts iron renewal since he should feasibly be able to always be around the group to provide support. However, such a big mechanic change may not be desirable from DE, and therefore I highly doubt this will be implemented (But, they did it with volt's shield so here's to hoping!)

By still giving Oberon the advantage to place multiple Hallowed Ground's, a player can maintain a wide area of strategic coverage (if they build for range and place in correct locations), for situations that require players to stay in one place for defensive CC. This brings Oberon on par with Limbo and Frost but is more comparable to Nyx due to radiation. However, because of the independent nature of radiation, Nyx is still superior to Oberon which is the point entirely: Oberon preforms a task done by other frames effectively and situational, but not to the point where the other frame is rendered obsolete.

This is further supported by the proposed energy regeneration from hallowed ground. Coupled with the suggested passive, Oberon's current energy dilemma is far better managed. I do not believe the conjunction of both is overpowered however, due to the fact that Rage energy recovery is convenient but unreliable (due to the risk of death) while hallowed ground is reliable but inconvenient recovery. The two work together to allow Oberon a constant intake of energy. Also, considering the high cost of his abilities and the necessity to recast many of them or channel them, Oberon requires a source of energy replenishment (which he cannot receive currently from energy restores or Energy Vampire or Zenurik).

I cannot see a valid reason as to why HG is not a circle by default. 360 degrees around Oberon on cast, I find, is necessary. This provides a larger area of coverage without having to mod, a simpler and more approachable way to mod, and synergy with reckoning. As it stands, if I were to cast reckoning, surrounded by enemies behind me and in front of me, only half would receive the armor debuff as HG only covers 180 degrees around Oberon. It is also the general consensus of the Community that power strength is a necessity for Oberon's effectiveness. With this in mind, Overextended is not worth using as it forces a player to sacrifice the greatest utility for Oberon at higher levels: armor reduction. A full circle does not eliminate the range problem but allows the range problem to be addressed via normal modding and is practically 2x the coverage for his main CC ability (which, given its short range, should be standard).

Renewal Proposed Changes:

• Flat cost for renewal per tic

  Reveal hidden contents

Honestly I don't see anything wrong with renewal as it currently is. However, as stated by Brozime and Marrikbroom, you are punished for healing teammates because of energy taxation on a low energy pool This would eliminate that problem.

 

Reckoning Proposed Changes:

• Base armor reduction value set to 50%
• Health orb drop on hit 50%
• Energy orb drop on hit 50%
• Blind proc base range 8 meters
• Blind proc base duration 8 seconds

  Reveal hidden contents

Given that frames such as Frost and Ash can strip armor more effectively than a support frame intended to debuff armor is in my mind, unjust. THIS DOES NOT MEAN I WANT A NERF TO THOSE ABILITIES!!! It simply means that I want Oberon to fulfill that role so that those and other frames may capitalize further on their strengths instead of added bonuses. Buffing the innate armor reduction to 50% (which is still dependent on HG) allows for far less of an energy output to receive similar affects but given the fact that Oberon must use over half of his energy (at base WITH primed flow on top of a 50 cost from HG) this should not be seen as a problem. As far as the corrosive projection argument goes, I prefer to run without it if I can. I do not want there to be mandatory aura's for all frames and running with a four stack of players with CP renders the armor stripping affect of Reckoning useless in the first place. By giving the player the freedom to explore different build possibilities with auras builds can become more variable and customized for a specific goal and as long as Oberon can armor strip on his own, I don't see why i need CP on top of that.

Health orbs and energy orbs make the cephalon mods viable. The only Frame I am aware of that can benefit from those buffs however, is Nekros. By allowing the health drop to be on hit, more players can utilize these otherwise very niche mods, as well as equilibrium, into their builds. On top of that, it encourages other players to stay by Oberon and his Hallowed Ground, something Oberon needs in order to support properly. rewarding players by working cooperatively with health and energy pickups is a good thing in my opinion.

Excalibur has a blind radius of 25m at base, Inaros at 15m. Though unasked for, the blind inclusion on Reckoning is a nice touch, but far to small to be useful. a small Buff would do it wonders.

Overall I'd say the rework as it is now, is good (great in some players eyes) but left unfinished as it portrays Oberon as something he's not. Oberon should have the ability to use all of his abilities to their best effectiveness and provide a role on any team while stronger frames do the majority of the work. I don't want Oberon to overshadow any frame, but I want him to have a unique position/play style that makes players consider him rather than immediately call him trash. An Oberon, in my opinion, should be able to have the versatility to mod distinctively to fit any mission type and not excel at any one, but be able to contribute to each. Perhaps this is a bit much to ask, but the proposed changes, in my opinion, give him a more tangible role and distinctive feel.

I want to do whatever I can to encourage DE to keep up the good work and to not be finished with him just yet. Though some buffs to his base stats (energy, armor) would be greatly appreciated, I guess its a wait for the prime release. However, if Oberon isn't improved upon any, or given a unique position, I guarantee I wont be spending money on a shinier version of him. 

(please respond with any feedback you have, its greatly appreciated, and thank you for reading)

This would be better served in the megathread or as its own topic instead of being absorbed into this thread.

[NightmareT12]

2 minutes ago, Evanescent said:

I'm going to imagine you either did not read either topic, and/or not read the 'revised' in the title.

TBH, nope. But since at first glance content seemed to be the same and it's not the first time I see people repost the same topics I jumped the gun :P

My bad. Anyways, I think it'd be better to just post on the megathread anyways. I can already see it dumped there alongside all the feedback.

Edited May 2, 2017 by NightmareT12

[Obe-Ron-Kenobi]

5 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

Didn't you open the same topic some days ago? Seems like it's been merged to the "Megathread". Why open another with the same content?

I think, at least for me, a lot of us are worried that our suggestions get lost within the megathread and it's hard to stay on one topic. I guess the same could happen here.

 I just want more feedback for my opinion of the rework so we as a community can work out a definition of oberon that is exactly what we can agree upon, as a community, on what we want, so that DE can manage that feedback easier 

[Evanescent]

Just now, NightmareT12 said:

TBH, nope. But since at first glance content seemed to be the same and it's not the first time I see people repost the same topics I jumped the gun :P

My bad. Anyways, I think it'd be better to just post on the megathread anyways. It's going to be dumped there alongside all the feedback.

No harm done.

I do not post in the megathread because I don't like megathreads. I feel they are counter productive and tend to bury feedback and muddle conversations after merging. It might be merged, anyway, but I don't like it.

[(XBOX)Grimsley Clause]

Just now, Evanescent said:

 not read the 'revised' in the title.

Revised means you went over the original, fixed some stuff up and changed some things, then reposted the same topic, and with mostly a similar rundown, but with again, with changes or fixes scattered throughout.

That's all I have to say, not knocking anything, just my 2 cents on that one particular thing.

1 minute ago, NightmareT12 said:

TBH, nope. But since at first glance content seemed to be the same and it's not the first time I see people repost the same topics I jumped the gun :P

My bad. Anyways, I think it'd be better to just post on the megathread anyways. I can already see it dumped there alongside all the feedback.

I feel you, I know of a few people on the forums that do the same thing... Around Bi-Weekly, I wanna say.

[(XBOX)Grimsley Clause]

Just now, Evanescent said:

No harm done.

I do not post in the megathread because I don't like megathreads. I feel they are counter productive and tend to bury feedback and muddle conversations after merging. It might be merged, anyway, but I don't like it.

I feel that.

[Music4Therapy]

I keep Renewal up at all times in squad play and near 100% of the time in solo play and have zero energy issues. As a player who spends most his playtime in Mot, I don't care about the armor from Iron Renewal. What I care about is having as much uptime as possible on Renewal, on myself and squadmates.

The reason why I do that is because I use Phoenix Renewal.

In solo play: When I am low on Energy I can charge face first into a pack of enemies, possible get myself killed doing so (which then triggers Phoenix Renewal) and I come back to life with full Energy and half hp (and it's max hp by the time the i-frames wear off) Basically, every 90 seconds I get a free energy reset or can make a mistake and come out ahead. During this 90 second period, I am able to have Renewal off so that Zenurik is in effect and due to my efficiency and range can p much spam Reckoning without consequence and play safer to keep myself up til Phoenix is up again.

In squads: It allows me and all my squadmates from the start of the mission until the end to have a get out of jail free card and should someone die their bleed out timer is doubled. I don't rely on the ability for the armor, I use it for the utility of preventing death and prolonging the time I have to recover from a situation/mistake. Really, you and teammates with you shouldn't be dying once every 90 seconds and this prevents ugly situations and allows the squad more time for revives. The utility is amazing and doesn't work while Renewal is toggled off, even if you have Iron Renewal on.

With this I've been able to solo for 90 minutes in Mot and saved many scrubs from death in sorties.

 

My build?

170 eff, 115 dur, 100 str. 160 rng.

Streamline+Fleeting, Primed Continuity, Stretch+Cunning Drift. <--- Loving the mobility Cunning Drift offers.

Then? Rage+Vitality+Phoenix Renewal should be on every Oberon. I -never- use Vitality except when I use Oberon, Chroma, and Wukong. It combined with Phoenix Renewal and Rage is amazing. The last mod is Natural Talent.

The only 2 mods that I feel are can be swapped out are Natural Talent and Primed Continuity. I wouldn't touch the power strength mods unless they raised the armor reduction on his Reckoning to where 100% was more easily achievable, so Primed Flow and Quick Thinking are the only real options here... but Quick Thinking doesn't work with Phoenix Renewal. I may swap Primed Flow and Primed Continuity, because HG would still last long enough (12 secs) to get my Iron Renewal off and strip enemies of armor and would allow my Renewal to drain much longer (1 energy per second would be the cost)

 

Edit: No problems with energy or anything at all with this build. Just wish I could make more use of the armor stripping from his Reckoning, I'd consider doing so if he had an energy mechanic AND it had 40%+ armor stripping to start with.

Edited May 2, 2017 by Music4Therapy

[Obe-Ron-Kenobi]

Alright so I want to clarify some things before I post this.

• I DO NOT want to make Oberon OP.
• I DO NOT want to witch hunt members of DE for the rework or DE as a company.
• I DO NOT want DE to leave Oberon as is.

Change can only happen if criticism is constructive and specific and that is exactly how I want this rework to go. Please provide me with any feedback you can so that it can be discussed and a verdict is reached, if a decision to change anything stated is reasonable and properly justified by the community I will make edits to this post. I understand that this post will likely get lost within the mega thread so if you like any suggestions, keep the post alive by providing legitimate feedback. This is an attempt to come to a conclusion as a community for what we want to change with Oberon.

Please don't crucify me for posting this in the mega thread and another forum, I made this separate as I want specific feedback on my ideas and within the mega thread it got lost and dropped. I want this to be a fourm where a large portion of the community can discuss what needs to be changed with Oberon's abilities specifically to support his playstyle. After I have received a good amount of feedback or this forum gets shut down, I will repost the changes to the mega thread. This thread is only meant to organize feedback.

Without further ado, lets get started.

Passive Proposed Changes:

• Oberon possesses an innate 'Rage' effect at 15-20% damage to energy conversion as well as an innate "Guardian Derision" effect when blocking which scales in range relative to the edge of Hallowed ground (with a minimum of 10m)
• Posesses the same passive including the one above

  Reveal hidden contents

I first saw this suggestion by Marrikbroom when discussing Oberon's paladin theme. As he is able to take damage (as seen by Xenogelion's build) Oberon should have the ability to pull aggro towards him and gain energy from it naturally. This in ideal scenarios, helps manage the CC Oberon provides with his radiation procs. Ideally, enemies won't be focused on teammates or Oberon but each other, when they are not however (or when Oberon needs energy/ distraction from a downed teammate), Oberon should have the ability to direct the flow of battle towards himself, and blocking is a great way to do so. By scaling with the range of Hallowed Ground, Oberon is encouraged to do most fighting on HG which helps with the synergy of his entire kit.

including this buff as well as the current one does not seem overpowered as

1. Sentinels are more abundantly used by the community than companions
2. At higher levels the bonuses seem negligible
3. with the additions to smite listed here, it would add motivation to take control of animals and give players more options on the field. 

 By having these qualities as a combined passive (that could stack with mods) players wouldn't need to worry about those mods being "mandatory" to their build, just a nice addition so they could focus on other modding combinations. If a player wanted to include 'rage' or 'guardian derision' they still could and receive considerable benefits from them and the option to build around them. Though I think I see a point of criticism,"if i got a free buff for my mods, why wouldn't I maximize that buff? That doesn't solve a problem that just makes an existing problem worse" But I would argue that that exact point helps strengthen mine. Any Oberon build you make requires you to sacrifice something (be it power strength, range, efficiency etc.) But the suggested passive instead gives the player more freedom to decide weather they want to make "the ultimate rage aggro build" or just use the passive as a bonus and add a mod like energy conversion instead. This gives players more freedom to experiment, something I think is crucial to the "feel" of Oberon.

Smite Proposed Changes:

• Kubrows and Kavats hit by smite (and adjacent projectiles) will join your party until their death, receiving companion buffs. Number of animals influenced at a time by Oberon scales with power duration (1-7 animals at a time). (Animals act as members of the squad and do not delay extraction)
• Animals targeted by smite do not recieve the damage from smite

  Reveal hidden contents

Currently, I for one am satisfied with the damage/minor CC smite provides. It would be nice if the orbs did not scale in the split manner that they do now, but there are ways around that without being too big of an issue and I have enjoyed the playstyle so far, I only want to include one change. Since this ability relies heavily off of which target is initially hit by Smite (and since I have heard some of the community complain about the previous passive being removed) would it be possible to incorporate the previous passive within smite? This correlates to Oberon's theme, provides a small but useful niche, and I know the developers were at first very adamant to keep this passive when it first came out, so it would be nice to not completely scrap the idea. 

To the best of my knowledge, this is not overpowered as it is very niche, but a very fun and useful niche. It requires some play testing in order to get the balancing and numbers right, something I don't know if the developers are willing to go through and program, but it would aid in Oberon's druid theme. 

 

Hallowed Ground Proposed Changes:

• Adjust Ability angle to 360 degrees by default
• Ability to "pick up" Hallowed Ground as an Aura and move with the ability centered around Oberon. Pick up works similar to Volt's riot shield, being an activation prompt in the middle of HG. Moving with Hallowed Ground as an Aura reduces the range by 1.5x and drains energy based off of Power Efficiency (proposed 1-2 energy per second at base). Once Hallowed Ground is "dropped" it continues the duration timer where it left off when "picked up".
• Ability radius (base) of Aura: 10m
• Ability radius (base) while stationary 15-20m
• Enemies affected by radiation on Hallowed Ground give Oberon 1 energy, enemies killed on Hallowed Ground give Oberon 5 energy per kill, enemies killed on Hallowed Ground while irradiated give Oberon 6 energy. Energy can be recovered while channeling renewal.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

In my opinion, this is Oberon's Achilles heel. The update made every ability he has synergize with hallowed ground in some way, but the issue arises that Hallowed Ground is not effective enough as it is now in order to have such a dramatic role in Oberon's kit. In my opinion (with 20% overall usage of Oberon for 454 hours of mission time), Oberon's playstyle should, in theory, maintain this dependence on hallowed ground. Yet, given how much the game has changed since Oberon was introduced, hallowed ground is simply outclassed by so many other "camping" abilities (or straight up replaced by aura abilities) to be useful anymore. In order to change this, I believe that it is vital for Oberon to be able to pick up and utilize Hallowed Ground as an aura and be placed wherever the situation deems necessary (be it a choke point, defense objective, revival spot). Decreasing the range in aura form encourages the transition period from point A to point B to be temporary, without leaving Oberon or allies vulnerable when it is time to move. This also doesn't leave Oberon or the team at a disadvantage (or to stop game play) if faster allies are ahead of renewals range when Oberon casts iron renewal since he should feasibly be able to always be around the group to provide support. However, such a big mechanic change may not be desirable from DE, and therefore I highly doubt this will be implemented (But, they did it with volt's shield so here's to hoping!)

By still giving Oberon the advantage to place multiple Hallowed Ground's, a player can maintain a wide area of strategic coverage (if they build for range and place in correct locations), for situations that require players to stay in one place for defensive CC. This brings Oberon on par with Limbo and Frost but is more comparable to Nyx due to radiation. However, because of the independent nature of radiation, Nyx is still superior to Oberon which is the point entirely: Oberon preforms a task done by other frames effectively and situational, but not to the point where the other frame is rendered obsolete.

This is further supported by the proposed energy regeneration from hallowed ground. Coupled with the suggested passive, Oberon's current energy dilemma is far better managed. I do not believe the conjunction of both is overpowered however, due to the fact that Rage energy recovery is convenient but unreliable (due to the risk of death) while hallowed ground is reliable but inconvenient recovery (as it requires you to cast). The two work together to allow Oberon a constant intake of energy. Also, considering the high cost of his abilities and the necessity to recast many of them or channel them, Oberon requires a source of energy replenishment (which he cannot receive currently from energy restores or Energy Vampire or Zenurik).

I cannot see a valid reason as to why HG is not a circle by default. 360 degrees around Oberon on cast, I find, is necessary. This provides a larger area of coverage without having to mod, a simpler and more approachable way to mod, and synergy with reckoning. As it stands, if I were to cast reckoning, surrounded by enemies behind me and in front of me, only half would receive the armor debuff as HG only covers 180 degrees around Oberon. It is also the general consensus of the Community that power strength is a necessity for Oberon's effectiveness. With this in mind, Overextended is not worth using as it forces a player to sacrifice the greatest utility for Oberon at higher levels: armor reduction. A full circle does not eliminate the range problem but allows the range problem to be addressed via normal modding and is practically 2x the coverage for his main CC ability (which, given its short range, should be standard).

Renewal Proposed Changes:

• Flat cost for renewal per tic
• Allies not present on hallowed ground when iron renewal is cast receive half of the armor buff that allies standing on hallowed ground receive. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Honestly I don't see anything wrong with renewal as it currently is. However, as stated by Brozime and Marrikbroom, you are punished for healing teammates because of energy taxation on a low energy pool This would eliminate that problem.

 

Reckoning Proposed Changes:

• Base armor reduction value set to 50%
• Energy orb drop on hit 20%
• Blind proc base range 8 meters
• Blind proc base duration 8 seconds

  Reveal hidden contents

Given that frames such as Frost and Ash can strip armor more effectively than a support frame intended to debuff armor is, in my mind, unjust. THIS DOES NOT MEAN I WANT A NERF TO THOSE ABILITIES!!! It simply means that I want Oberon to fulfill that role so that those and other frames may capitalize further on their strengths instead of added bonuses. Buffing the innate armor reduction to additive 50% reduction (which is still dependent on HG) allows for far less of an energy output to receive similar affects, but given the fact that Oberon must use over half of his energy (at base WITH primed flow on top of a 50 cost from HG) this should not be seen as a problem. As far as the corrosive projection argument goes, I prefer to run without it if I can. I do not want there to be mandatory aura's for all frames and running with a four stack of players with CP renders the armor stripping affect of Reckoning useless in the first place. By giving the player the freedom to explore different build possibilities  different auras can become more variable and customized for a specific goal and as long as Oberon can armor strip on his own, I don't see why I need CP on top of that.

Health orbs and energy orbs make the cephalon mods viable. The only Frame I am aware of that can benefit from those buffs however, is Nekros. By allowing the health drop to be on hit, more players can utilize these otherwise very niche mods, as well as equilibrium, into their builds. On top of that, it encourages other players to stay by Oberon and his Hallowed Ground, something Oberon needs in order to support properly. rewarding players by working cooperatively with health and energy pickups is a good thing in my opinion. (EDIT) as oberon already possesses a HoT ability, health orbs are rendered null. But by replacing this with energy orbs Oberon's energy consumption issues are somewhat levied.

Excalibur has a blind radius of 25m at base, Inaros at 15m. Though unasked for, the blind inclusion on Reckoning is a nice touch, but far too small to be useful. A small Buff would do it wonders.

Overall I'd say the rework as it is now, is good (great in some players eyes) but left unfinished as it portrays Oberon as something he's not. Oberon should have the ability to use all of his abilities to their best effectiveness and provide a role on any team while stronger frames do the majority of the work. I don't want Oberon to overshadow any frame, but I want him to have a unique position/play style that makes players consider him rather than immediately call him trash. An Oberon, in my opinion, should be able to have the versatility to mod distinctively to fit any mission type and not excel at any one, but be able to contribute to each. Perhaps this is a bit much to ask, but the proposed changes, in my opinion, give him a more tangible role and distinctive feel.

I want to do whatever I can to encourage DE to keep up the good work and to not be finished with him just yet. Though some buffs to his base stats (energy, armor) would be greatly appreciated, I guess its a wait for the prime release. However, if Oberon isn't improved upon any, or given a unique position, I guarantee I wont be spending money on a shinier version of him. 

(please respond with any feedback you have, its greatly appreciated, and thank you for reading)

COMMUNITY FEEDBACK (format for this section subject to change):

1) Bring back renewals infinite range and remove toggled nature and allow renewal to heal objectives. Iron renewal applies to anyone under the effects of renewal when cast by Oberon on hallowed ground

2) either reduce 50% chance to drop either orb on reckoning, or make "special" less effective orbs at the same drop chance (currently added). Remove blind and orb drop from reckoning in general and buff hard stats. 

3) Remove "Oberon gains 1 energy per irradiated enemies on hallowed ground" 

Edited May 3, 2017 by Oni_Spartan4
Clarification

[NightmareT12]

1 minute ago, Evanescent said:

No harm done.

I do not post in the megathread because I don't like megathreads. I feel they are counter productive and tend to bury feedback and muddle conversations after merging. It might be merged, anyway, but I don't like it.

I totally can understand that. I don't like them that much neither, but if it's going to end up there... *sigh*

Anyways, on the topic of Oberon himself, I was playing Heroes of the Storm earlier this week and it totally dawned on me that Tyrael's kit is exactly what DE was aiming at for Oberon thematically (beyond the obvious change of visual keynotes and such) and in role. Problem is, of course, HotS is a MOBA and Warframe is a shooter, so it can't be 1:1.

I thought it was kind of interesting though.

[Evanescent]

5 minutes ago, (Xbox One)ALG Minuscule36 said:

Revised means you went over the original, fixed some stuff up and changed some things, then reposted the same topic, and with mostly a similar rundown, but with again, with changes or fixes scattered throughout.

That's all I have to say, not knocking anything, just my 2 cents on that one particular thing.

I feel you, I know of a few people on the forums that do the same thing... Around Bi-Weekly, I wanna say.

Not necessarily. Revised can mean anything from slight changes to large overhauls. In this context, it certainly means changed opinons as I see it. Also no worries!

[Music4Therapy]

-snip-

Edited May 2, 2017 by Music4Therapy

[KX297]

I also still believe Hallowed Ground needs a pretty hefty range buff.

And Reckoning should have its health orb drop chance applied per hit, not per death. Because currently, killing things with it is pretty unreasonable past (what I consider at least) low levels.  Also, I think the blinding could use some work. It's super short range and the duration is nothing, even when modded for it.

+ 1 to original post. Some good ideas.

Oberon could for sure still use some work.

 

[(PSN)Briginds]

When looking at the videos and new builds for him, I feel disappointed. Oberon has alot of potential, but with the feedback I've read about him, I can honestly say I do not want Oberon's rework on PS4. And his abilities don't do anything to heavily armored enemies from what I've seen. I'd personally take Oberon as he currently is over his rework. 

[Myscho]

Rework is still subject to change, what you see on PC dont have to be final

[Music4Therapy]

Yo, Oberon rework is amazing. You will love it. People are still figuring it out. I literally just did and its amazing.

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)Briginds said:

When looking at the videos and new builds for him, I feel disappointed. Oberon has alot of potential, but with the feedback I've read about him, I can honestly say I do not want Oberon's rework on PS4. And his abilities don't do anything to heavily armored enemies from what I've seen. I'd personally take Oberon as he currently is over his rework. 

You're asking as though you have a choice in the matter.

His rework is coming.

Prepare yourself.

[redeyedtreefrog]

It's threads like this that should prove to DE that they've gotten something wrong along the way. I'm looking at you, renewal nerf. I'm looking at you...

[Windy_Wind]

what they've done so far is going on the right direction. However the numbers on his abilities are not correctly adjusted to make him decent. and that's one of the reason for disappointment.

Edited May 2, 2017 by Windy_Wind

[SDGDen]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)Briginds said:

When looking at the videos and new builds for him, I feel disappointed. Oberon has alot of potential, but with the feedback I've read about him, I can honestly say I do not want Oberon's rework on PS4. And his abilities don't do anything to heavily armored enemies from what I've seen. I'd personally take Oberon as he currently is over his rework. 

lemme guess. brozime's video about oberon? yeh A: thats out of date, B: theres a bunch of misinformation there.

 

he's actualy realy f*ckin good now, constant squad heals, giant radiating patches of land (although the effect still needs fixing), cc knockdowns that kill easily at starchart missions, synergies to reduce armor using reckoning, ETC.

 

btw. his 1 still handles sortie enemies.... 

[(PSN)Briginds]

The feedback on him has been pretty bad in all honesty. Once the change is finalized, I'd be happy to overlook my current statement. But until the changes are made, I stand firm. Ive asked for opinions from a few PC friends. His abilities are very difficult to work with. From what I've heard, his playstyle and rework have tanked from how he is currently (On PS4).