Oberon Feedback 20.3.1 and beyond

[Iccotak]

10 hours ago, blacklusterseph said:

^ I don't see why he wouldn't. Harrow comes with his own quest while Oberon parts drop like leaves. I don't think that a frame that is so easy to get should necessarily be on par with a 'late game' warframe.

This is what I am talking about. Oberon is so easy to obtain that players automatically associate that with his worth. 

Oberon, along with other older frames, should get a quest that you unlock at a certain mastery rank. 

This will streamline the beginner experience and give them direction as to where they can get their Warframes. 
I am NOT saying big quests. I am saying side quests for each planet that reward the player with the main blueprint and then the rest of the parts. 

Actions speak louder than words. To have Oberon so easily obtainable tells players that he is firewood or near worthless frame. They are wrong but that is what goes through their heads. 

Also, People want to be able to stick to the frame they like. I Love my Oberon. I like playing him and would like to stick with him.
Having certain frames better simply because you get them later is a HORRIBLE idea. 

[-Defeater-]

1 hour ago, robbybe01234 said:

Well if it's an aura wouldn't you continue to suffer from a nekros with shadows?

The way it works now allows you to choose self heals or party wide heal.  Of course they could not care. But the option is open for them to approach you without adding to your drain.  The aura is fine but assumes that you would always want all targets within the aura adding to the heal drain at all times.

assuming that they dont intend to fix this, which i think they should and probably will, youre right, it might be a bad idea. BUT if they intend to fix that, which i think they do since nothing else can heal the shadows, or so ive heard, i feel if youre going to not going to heal everyone and chose to only let one other person take your energy, then you shoudld just play trin and follow them around, cause playing oberon atm, you need to accept the fact that, because of the crappy rework and energy drain for his 3, which is a whole other discussion, youre going to be losing a lot of energy. you need to be mentally prepared for the fact that this is how the frame plays, and that youre going to runout of energy if you dont actively try and get it, such as letting yourself take damage for rage or putting on vacuum. if you dont plan on trying to get your whole team to benefit from the buff, like i said in my reply to someone else, theres no point in playing oberon, because thats the one thing he has over trin. 

[Staggeringking]

I'll be happy with those adjustments sooner rather than later.

But maybe for later add a countdown to Renewal's heal like Iron Renewal does when you toggle OFF Renewal, so players know ahead of time when the healing stops, especially for Phoenix Renewal users.

 

[EinheriarJudith]

18 minutes ago, Iccotak said:

This is what I am talking about. Oberon is so easy to obtain that players automatically associate that with his worth. 

Oberon, along with other older frames, should get a quest that you unlock at a certain mastery rank. 

This will streamline the beginner experience and give them direction as to where they can get their Warframes. 
I am NOT saying big quests. I am saying side quests for each planet that reward the player with the main blueprint and then the rest of the parts. 

Actions speak louder than words. To have Oberon so easily obtainable tells players that he is firewood or near worthless frame. They are wrong but that is what goes through their heads. 

Also, People want to be able to stick to the frame they like. I Love my Oberon. I like playing him and would like to stick with him.
Having certain frames better simply because you get them later is a HORRIBLE idea. 

fighting any boss to get frame parts is easily much faster than farming oberon for example getting valkyr from alad v can be done in less than 20min

[Iccotak]

17 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

You have the makings of something interesting here. Tie it in with introducing differant syndicates and you have a way to cheaply add some lore in.  Like Have this quest introduce steel meridian and new loka. like... after your first rescue node (past tutorial) it's a new loka operative collecting plantlif and them giving you the blueprint and saying that is what the grineer were after.

 

The Steel Meridian show up when you do a Spy and and encourage you to do some kind of side thing for them like go and hack x or y grineer objects that pop up on earth. Rewards you with a random part. Give some on orbiter back and forth between the two syndicate leaders on orbiter and then lotus stating that maybe building this warframe might help bridge the divide between two factions that should be allies but at best barely tolerate each other because of her allowing them access to her network of resources demanding it.

I should try doing a sketch/outline of the full quest.

Then likewise do a quest for Ash starring red veil and Arbiters

What these two have in common are they drop from Units rather than from bosses or quests, and the factions I pick are specifically antagonistic to each other.

No, I mean just on the planets.
Not every frame has to be tied to the syndicates. Adding multiple outlets to earn Warframes is better.
Give one warframe for each syndicate, then give 1-2 warframes for each planet.
You unlock missions, or the option to do those missions, for those warframes at certain mastery ranks. 

Syndicates already have
New Loka: Titania
Perrin Sequence: Nidus
Cephalon Suda: Octavia
Red Veil: Harrow

I am saying 
Earth: Oberon + Titania quests
Oberon first, then come back later for Titania

Exclude Warframes you can get in clans. That stays the same

 

6 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

fighting any boss to get frame parts is easily much faster than farming oberon for example getting valkyr from alad v can be done in less than 20min

I can't relate, I get Oberon parts all the time. You get parts as you play. 

Edited May 6, 2017 by Iccotak

[EinheriarJudith]

5 minutes ago, Iccotak said:

I can't relate, I get Oberon parts all the time. You get parts as you play. 

you said Oberon is so easy to obtain that players automatically associate that with his worth. any frame can be instantly bought with plat. and frames like valkyr can be gotten faster than waiting for eximus to show up which in some cases isnt till 20min into endless or special cases non endless. all frames are viable for star chart and sortie. this so called players placing worth on ease of access is ridiculous. banshee is top tier and shes dojo build which you just pay credits after research.

Edited May 6, 2017 by EinheriarJudith

[CuChulainnWD]

4 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

you said Oberon is so easy to obtain that players automatically associate that with his worth. any frame can be instantly bought with plat. and frames like valkyr can be gotten faster than waiting for eximus to show up which in some cases isnt till 20min into endless or special cases non endless. all frames are viable for star chart and sortie. this so called players placing worth on ease of access is ridiculous.

Think about what you said there. Not everyone can readily obtain plat to quickly buy every frame. Oberon drops faster than credits. Yes a slight exaggeration, but I have heard him referred to as purple credits too.

Edited May 6, 2017 by CuChulainnWD

[Iccotak]

9 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

you said Oberon is so easy to obtain that players automatically associate that with his worth. any frame can be instantly bought with plat. and frames like valkyr can be gotten faster than waiting for eximus to show up which in some cases isnt till 20min into endless or special cases non endless. all frames are viable for star chart and sortie. this so called players placing worth on ease of access is ridiculous.

Plat is actual money. Plat is a different thing than farming. 
I am saying in earning it in game. I know plenty of folks who call Oberon firewood just because of how many Oberon parts they have from simply doing missions.
It took me way longer to earn Valkyr than it did Oberon. I don't wait for Eximus units because all I have to do is keep playing random missions and next thing I know I have Oberon. 
New players I have met already have him. In my personal experience and from others that I have met Oberon is extremely easy to get. Valkyr at least has a boss and a designated location within the story to earn her.

Edited May 6, 2017 by Iccotak

[EinheriarJudith]

8 minutes ago, Iccotak said:

Plat is actual money. Plat is a different than farming. 
I am saying in earning it in game. I know plenty of folks who call Oberon firewood just because of how many Oberon parts they have from simply doing missions.
It took me way longer to earn Valkyr than it did Oberon. I don't wait for Eximus units because all I have to do is keep playing random missions and next thing I know I have Oberon. 
New players I have met already have him. In my personal experience and from others that I have met Oberon is extremely easy to get. Valkyr at least has a boss and a designated location within the story to earn her.

that same complaint can be made about ash since he drops from a unit like eximus or any frame not tied to a boss. it isnt necessary and placing a frames worth off its acquisition is a personal issue. when Nidus first launched. i bought him with plat. did i buy plat? nope i farmed like i usually do and just traded. again dojo build frames new people can get almost instantly with credits. which makes banshee volt and zephyr faster to get than oberon. 

Edited May 6, 2017 by EinheriarJudith

[Iccotak]

9 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

placing a frames worth off its acquisition is a personal issue.

This has nothing to do with my outlook on Oberon. I love the guy. I am talking about the rest of the community. Browse the forums. You'll see that ALOT of the community has this narrow perspective of him.

[robbybe01234]

1 hour ago, -Defeater- said:

assuming that they dont intend to fix this, which i think they should and probably will, youre right, it might be a bad idea. BUT if they intend to fix that, which i think they do since nothing else can heal the shadows, or so ive heard, i feel if youre going to not going to heal everyone and chose to only let one other person take your energy, then you shoudld just play trin and follow them around, cause playing oberon atm, you need to accept the fact that, because of the crappy rework and energy drain for his 3, which is a whole other discussion, youre going to be losing a lot of energy. you need to be mentally prepared for the fact that this is how the frame plays, and that youre going to runout of energy if you dont actively try and get it, such as letting yourself take damage for rage or putting on vacuum. if you dont plan on trying to get your whole team to benefit from the buff, like i said in my reply to someone else, theres no point in playing oberon, because thats the one thing he has over trin. 

The bolded part is interesting.  Since there are so many tools and other player abilities in the game that make this a non issue for me, I take it your expectation of him is that he must have an energy regen as if none of these other tools existed in the game?  That's not my expectation.  I'm fine with having to engage with things in the game to sustain his pool.

You also bring up mentality of play, which is a good observation.  I do appreciate that my mindset is different when playing him or with any other different functioning frame.  Or else there might as well just be 1 frame in the game.

Edited May 6, 2017 by robbybe01234

[-Defeater-]

22 minutes ago, robbybe01234 said:

The bolded part is interesting.  Since there are so many tools and other player abilities in the game that make this a non issue for me, I take it your expectation of him is that he must have an energy regen as if none of these other tools existed in the game?  That's not my expectation.  I'm fine with having to engage with things in the game to sustain his pool.

You also bring up mentality of play, which is a good observation.  I do appreciate that my mindset is different when playing him or with any other different functioning frame.  Or else there might as well just be 1 frame in the game.

i expect that not every build of his should literally require rage. if youre playing any kind of content that is worth having a healer, having over base 10 energy a second if the whole team is taking damage, excluding pets or sentinels or even shadows, is a little steep when you can literally play trin and get a better effect at a discount and unlimited energy for you and your whole team. you probably have no problem with energy because like you said, you can chose not to heal team mates, which is what im assuming youre doing, but as for me who trys to keep the heal on as many people as i can, energy only comes from rage and pick ups. but like i said, whole other discussion. 

if your mentality is to play oberon as a tank and for the most part ignore team mates, then playing pretty much any other frame like rhino chroma etc would benefit your team more cause at least then youd be doing some damage. i dont htink DE intended to have people play oberon as a solo tank, though i guess you could if you wanted to, i just see more potential in him as a healer if hed not have to group everyone up first opposed to how he is now

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

10 hours ago, low1991 said:

 

Been wondering... why didn't DE change renewal to map-wide. And to only heals players & pets, but not abilities like shadows.

It's not like Trinity' #4 which gives 100% damage reduction + 100% heal.

Its actually 75% dmg reduction

[Gelkor]

The fact that this hasn't been fixed yet leads me to believe it may be intentional, in which case, please change. 

Right now each individual Shadow from Nekros counts as an additional ally for the purposes of energy usage for Oberon's Renewal. At normal levels that means 8 additional targets, but since Nekros Shadows can often summon additional allies, this can mean up to 14+ additional allies all draining increasing amounts of energy per second from Oberon's Renewal. 

Please either remove Nekros shadows from receiving Renewal healing or only make them count as 1 ally. It's basically impossible to maintain Renewal with a Nekros in the group right now. 

When we asked for synergy between frames this isn't what we meant. 

[booty_hunter]

Same thing with Nidus's maggots I believe.

[Eldnacpeek]

3 hours ago, booty_hunter said:

Same thing with Nidus's maggots I believe.

 

If that's the case, then any frame spawned AI with health is affected.

[robbybe01234]

It may be a limitation in design.  They may not be able to turn off their ally tag for oberon while leaving it on for nekros and everything else.  They did close the door on renewal for any allies outside its range, not allowing healing when going near oberon.  stop gap yes, but it is there as an option.

[low1991]

2 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Its actually 75% dmg reduction

Old Blessing gives 100%.

[sulusdacor]

please do more changes to oberon.

the recent buff (20.4.0) was nice, but it did not adress the cause of his energy problems.

it did help him that is undenyable, but only helped one effect and bandaged a problem of his energy economy. (if you had problem before with using flow then u still have them after the change)

really hope that he gets more changes in, since i'm scared that the new frame will come out and he will stay as is like many other changes done. so please don't repeat old patterns.

[Windy_Wind]

I was hoping that Reckoning damage would scale based on the amount of damage that oberon and his allies took while under the effect of renewal. 100% of total damage taken would be converted and added to the next time Oberon casted reckoning, Damage converter scale with power strength. 

Health orb drop chance changes to on HIT, blind range to 6m and last for 8 sec. Armor reduction to 40% 

But I guess dev won't even care to take a look like many other suggestion anyway.

Edited May 6, 2017 by Windy_Wind

[Ardhanarishvara]

Every 'frame has energy problems. Literally all of them do. It's the nature of the game that energy is finite, and that you're going to run out - especially if and when you start coming up against Energy Leech Eximus.

I only run Streamline and Rage for energy, and Continuity and Constitution for duration, but they also help with Renewal's energy cost. As long as I use my abilities sparingly and play smart, I've never had any significant energy problems. Nekros' Shadows of the Dead is really the only thing aside from Energy Leech Eximus that throws a wrench in the works.

If you're still having energy problems, I posit that it's your playstyle and strategy that is causing issue, and that you might try using your abilities more sparingly, or modding your 'frame in a different direction.

[tnccs215]

6 hours ago, robbybe01234 said:

It may be a limitation in design.  They may not be able to turn off their ally tag for oberon while leaving it on for nekros and everything else.  They did close the door on renewal for any allies outside its range, not allowing healing when going near oberon.  stop gap yes, but it is there as an option.

No, but they can simply, say, cap the cost at 4 targets (a full party)

[Landpaddle]

Oberon is mostly fine in his current state. There are a few outstanding issues with him that hurt his capacity to fill the a support role, listed below:

1.) Hallowed Ground does not affect allies even 1m vertically above the area of effect.

Since Hallowed Ground is cast on a set area, its primary purpose appears to be on defense objectives. However, should an ally choose to stand atop a defense objective--whether it be a cryopod or a mobile defense terminal--the status immunity conferred by Hallowed Ground is not applied and you have to manually direct them either with a waypoint (often ignored) or through chat, dropping gameplay to pester others in pre-sortie conditions.

I would be much happier with Hallowed Ground if it at least provided 2-5 meters of vertical reach, unaffected by range, in order to make up for the human nature of perching atop things. That change would certainly make playing with public groups less frustrating without affecting Oberon's general power.

2.) Renewal still affects several things it shouldn't, at dramatically increased energy drain.

It's surprisingly difficult to retain Oberon's boosted energy pool when using 130% efficiency, 156% duration, and a Rage build on a team of four *if* that team has any of the following: a Nidus, a Nekros, a hacked enemy, or an Ancient Eximus Specter.

Despite the wiki's claims that Nekros's shadows are unaffected by Oberon's renewal, renewal will occasionally drain 3/sec additional energy (down to 1.35 energy/sec with the aforementioned build) to support them, and the same applies to Nidus's maggots. Hacked enemies and specters will also be counted as targets, providing additional energy cost for healing that often doesn't even appear to improve their health pool. Lastly, activating your focus counts as an additional target to heal despite being invulnerable in that state, sapping your energy for no benefit whatsoever.

3) Reckoning is still mostly useful for raw, unscaling damage.

As an ability, I'd rather Reckoning veer away from the 'blind' debuff and focus more on a unique variant of CC. Presently, it's one of the worst blinds in the game, if not the worst, courtesy of very low range and not reliably proccing when you expect it to. Since many other frames accomplish the same, but more efficiently, that aspect of Reckoning feels redundant and mechanically overly complex.

Something more practically useful in many situations would be a % chance based on Power Strength to 'stun' enemies caught within Reckoning's radius, leaving them lying on the ground to recover for a time scaling off Power Duration. This would open enemies up to ground finishers, as well as feel more like a direct consequence of the power than a disconnected, shorter radius like the blind does.

Moreover, since a lot of players already build Oberon for Power Strength and at-or-over 100% Power Duration--not for raw Power Range with Overextended hurting your strength--you'd have an effect that would naturally synergize with a common and reasonably effective build rather than sacrificing one debuff (-% armor) to favor the other (very short blind).

Edited May 6, 2017 by Landpaddle

[Gelkor]

13 hours ago, booty_hunter said:

Same thing with Nidus's maggots I believe.

Yeesh, ouch.

[Hellmaker2004]

13 hours ago, low1991 said:

Old Blessing gives 100%.

Back before patch 13,3 yeah. Lets all keep referencing stuff that date back to 2014.