Oberon Feedback 20.3.1 and beyond

[Kinperor]

43 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

I'm going to disagree with you on 'enjoying the buildup for renewal.' As in I am very much not a fan of the forced dependence Renewal/Reckoning has on hallowed ground. It feels clunky and forced rather than the natural flow abilities have with eachother that nidus, limbo, octavia, and harrow's preview have shown.

 

I could only agree if Iron Renewal didn't have the potential of lasting indefinitely and Reckoning had only damage in it's kit.

As is, odds are very good that Iron Renewal will only ever be cast once or twice per endless. Reckoning shines because of it's CC, not because of it's damage.

I also did not find anything to feel "clunky" the kit, never mind that people abuse that term like there's no tomorrow.

[Genitive]

I think Smite could use a buff. Since it scales, it should scale well, otherwise what's the point of giving it any scaling at all? Same goes for Reckoning; it could strip armor better maybe? Other than that, I agree that these skills are fairly good for CC.

I also agree with Renewal. The enrgy drain is much too big. Its cost should be reduced or Oberon should be able to generate some energy from his abilities, not unlike Saryn. Like receiving some energy from killing an irradiated enemy.

What I don't quite like is the forced synergy between Hallowed Ground and Renewal. HG should provide slight armor buff just from itself, and be strengthened by casting Renewal. So you would get an armor buff while standing on GH, while Reckoning would allow you to move around with the additional armor.

At the end of the day I can live with the current Oberon, but there is room for improvement.

[Kinperor]

15 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

We're going to have to agree to disagree then because as is Renewal's upkeep costs mean you either have to play masochist, which means eventually you WILL get one shot, while avoiding using your other abilities, or use it as burst armor/heal and focus on your other skills. And armor strip that gets worse with each cast isn't worthwhile at all especially given reckoning's costs. Neither change I propose would suddenly turn oberon into some kind of OP monster. Just streamlining, plus 'oh hey his thing now drops health orbs' as you proposed, would be very worthwhile. After all I can cast reckoning, then either shoot things, or cast smite, or whatever and suddenly nekros isn't a health orb bot and can instead focus on other things.

 

We don't even have to agree to disagree... If you read my posts you'd notice that I said:

• Renewal drain could be lower.
• That Reckoning's main use isn't for damage.
• Hallowed Ground's energy cost is prohibitive for combos.
• Reckoning should drop health orbs.

We're saying more or less the same thing here...

[Tizodd]

I think it might just be an oversight on [DE]'s part and I hope they fix it soon.  Renewal should have a flat energy drain regardless of how many allies are healed.

None of the other frames have this detrimental mechanic: Trinity, Equinox, Nezha, etc...none of their healing abilities cost more based on number of allies healed.

Please fix this [DE].

[Blakrana]

40 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

(Nekros shadows of the dead, inaros's sand clones, nidus maggots, atlas Rumblers... am I leaving anyone out?

On 2017-5-21 at 0:47 AM, Blakrana said:

At present Renewal seems to affect the following.

• Nekros' Shadows
• Decoy
• Atlas' Rumblers
• Inaros' Sand Shadows
• Nidus' Maggots
• Titania's Razorflies
• Nyx's Mind Control target

Didn't think to check it worked on Saryn's Molt, forgetting it had a Health score _{I am a moron}. One more for the list, all the same.

I think that's pretty much the list as of yet. Emphasis on think.

 

 

[KX297]

I like the post.

+1 for buffing Oberon just a little more.

 

~However~

I don't think Oberon will be buffed again. I would be suprised of they did anything considering a lot of minor things that have been asked for have been ignored for a few patches. DE is really giving off a vibe that says they just don't care about Oberon. Ever since the patch that ONLY buffed his energy hit, I've been a little on the pessimistic side regarding him possibly receiving buffs. But, whatever, lets see what they do.

[EmberStar]

Renewal at least heals Clem during the "Help Clem" mission.  It might be healing specters, but I don't use them often and haven't checked.  It also heals player pets (when I used it, it at least healed my own Sentinel, so I assume it affects allied pets.)  Until someone proves otherwise, I'd assume that it's affecting any player "owned" entities.  At least Octavia's Metronome is immortal, and the NPCs that are following it are still considered enemies.  Imagine if *that* lot counted against Renewal.

There's also the temporary Equinox clone from the Augment - I'm not sure if she has HP, since I don't have that augment, and the card says the clone is only supposed to exist for seven seconds each time you switch.  If she's not invincible though, that'd be another one to check.

[EmberStar]

Oh, and Chroma's dragon skin when that's out.  Also an allied NPC, and I think it has health.  So it probably counts too.

Edited May 22, 2017 by EmberStar

[nameomnz]

I would like iron rennewal to directly come out of renewal and not synergize with his hallowed ground.

But synergize with his smite instread.

How does it work? well. If DE are really into "Scaling" stuff then It would be somewhat acceptable to gain more armor by Smite the enemy and recieve additional armor by cast renewal afterward, armor that you will recieve is base on their Health+Shield even if it only 1% of corrupted heavygunner's health. You can still "Almost" get 1 shotted by lv128 MOT nullifier.

Basically I will give him a scaling in surviablity

But overall, He's fine at the current version. Becasue 90% of us only play on starchart not endgame long endurance run.

[Hypernaut1]

Wow, someone else that thought Oberons old passive was cool! 

I actually liked the old passive and I felt it gave him a nice quirk. It came in handy more than this new buff that I barely notice. Oh well, the community was obsessed about the passive being a buff and DE gave in.

I know it only worked on grineer, but I fight grineer a lot (about as often as corpus, more than infested). It was nice to have a buffer against those darn cats, and have then help me out. If anything, they should've let him keep both passives. It's still a familiar passive.

[Hypernaut1]

If like if Phoenix renewal procs on hallowed ground, the timer is cut in half

Edited May 22, 2017 by Hypernaut1

[Metsudo]

I have been mulling over the current state of Oberon (post rework) for a while now. Regardless of if you are in the camp of his current state being better or worse, I think it's safe to say that DE's efforts to revamp him may well have been hampered somewhat by their wish to keep his skills similar to his original state.

 

With that in mind, I attempted to come up with a new skill set that could provide an improved Oberon in terms of team work and survival. This new set is quite different to his current set, so if DE is adamant in not changing how his skills work at all, this could instead be a new warframe concept (in terms of skills at least) based on trees etc. This might be a bit of a long read, so to those who do read it all, thank you for your time, and for any feed back provided.

 

Oberon rework suggestion

Passive: Evergreen
Oberon leaves a trail of green leaves in his wake. Players who walk on them get a small amount of energy regen. Oberon himself gets an improved amount of energy from orb pick ups (perhaps from 25 up to 30).

#1: Sap
Oberon hits his target with a sticky ball of sap that slows the target and any other enemies in close proximity, greatly reduces their sight ranges while doing moderate damage over time.
 

-synergy- with #4 "Briar Patch"
If an enemy is caught within brambles inside a Briar Patch while also having Sap on them, they take an armour debuff.

#2: Gnarled Oak
Oberon Grows a skin of gnarled tree bark, granting him a reduction in incoming damage. When he is hit by an enemy, shards of bark are chipped off his body and Oberon begins to grow an aura version of the sap skill. The more bark is chipped off, the larger the aura gets, effecting all nearby enemies with the same effects as sap (slowed, reduced sight ranges and some damage over time).
 

-Synergy with #1 "Sap"
If an enemy walks on the fallen shards of bark, it makes a wood snapping sound and any nearby enemies that are effected by sap will blindly shoot at its location, hitting the friendly enemy and damaging it.

#3: Hallowed Grove
Oberon marks an area around himself, creating a mobile AoE that drains his energy. Enemies that are subsequently killed within its boundary add a stack of "Fertitity". Once enough enemies are killed, a tree sprouts from the last required enemies position. Players can perform an action on the tree and get a significant health restore. Each tree can be used once per player in the team and will disappear when used 4 times or after a timer. More than one tree can sprout at a time, though each simultaneous occurrence will require an increased number of stacks. Tougher enemies could be worth more stacks (e.g. butchers worth less than heavy gunners) procs on players could still remain blocked (like current Hallowed Ground).
 

-synergy- with #1 "Sap"
If the killed enemies include ones affected by sap, the tree will also provide an armour boost aura to nearby players, with the armour amount affected by the number of "Sapped" enemies used to make the tree. Multiple tree auras could stack the effect.

#4: Briar Patch
Oberon creates patches of thorny brambles in an area around himself. The brambles naturally try to span spaces between level geometry (like between pillars, walls etc). Enemies that try to pass through them are slowed, take slash damage over time from the thorns, and are likely to receive slash procs. Damage from the slash procs is also converted into health regen for any player within the skills AoE.
 

-synergy- with #3 "Hallowed Grove"
If enemies stuck in the brambles are also within a hallowed grove when killed, they cause a "strangler" tree to sprout. The strangler tree also pulls nearby enemies towards itself, and by proxy, into more brambles. Strangled enemies could also either receive an increased number of slash procs, or receive stronger slash procs.

Possible changes to augments

-Sap/Enduring Sap-
Enemies hit with sap leave a trail behind them which applies a sap effect to any enemies that walk into it at 50% lower duration.

-Gnarled Oak/Stubborn Oak-
The sap aura effect is removed. When hit by an enemy, the bark hardens, increasing damage resistance, but also aggroing nearby enemies and reducing Oberons movement speed. Once Oberon has been hit enough, the player can re cast the skill to instantly create a strangler tree at their location.

-Hallowed Grove/Endless Forrest- 
If Oberon is downed while a tree it still unused, the tree is destroyed and Oberon is revived at 50% health.

-Briar Patch/Thorned Fortress-
Enemies cannot pass through brambles and are forced to try and find a way around them.

 

 

 

Well, that's it. Thank you for you time.

[Chipputer]

New frame. That's not Oberon.

[peterc3]

Oberon: "druid" looks but paladin based powers. Why aren't there Valkyr reworks to give her all cat based powers?

[Metsudo]

39 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

New frame. That's not Oberon.

Yeah, I'm inclined to go with that too. I just figured that as it had started out as a rethink of Oberon I thought I'd post it as that.

[Metsudo]

37 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Oberon: "druid" looks but paladin based powers. Why aren't there Valkyr reworks to give her all cat based powers?

Not sure tbh. I could be a conscious attempt to avoid falling into narrow mind sets for powers. Could be interesting if they did look at more frames that way though.

[Chipputer]

44 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Oberon: "druid" looks but paladin based powers. Why aren't there Valkyr reworks to give her all cat based powers?

His Feyarch skin is the only full on druidic look that he has. Even at that he gets a Sword and Shield which isn't something generally associated with druids.

If you look at his base skin you see that he very clearly has armor on while also having gnarly bits of branches and antlers sticking out. He's a nature themed Paladin. The problem is that they then stick him next to trees in his statue, give him a fairy premium skin, and put a frame in the game named Titania so it's got people all confused.

[(XBOX)Ivan of Jupiter]

I've seen a few things regarding this type of "theme" the issue is that what you're suggesting isn't Oberon. It's a plant based frame. Oberon thematically is a cross between a Druid and a Paladin. What you have here is neither, but instead is more like a Dryad.

Just because his Deluxe Skin slightly resembles something plantlike doesn't mean his theme is plants. If anything he's more kin to wildlife and the restoration and protection of life itself be it by healing or by brute force.

That being said I do believe the topic of Oberon's viability should be discussed at length between the community, but first everyone that joins this discussion must understand what Oberon's role and theme is.

Here I'll help.

He's both a Druid and Paladin. Adept at healing, protecting and fighting with what's typically "light" or "holy" magic. But since Warframe doesn't really have anything like that, Radiation it is!

He's a Jack of all trades and a master of none. With the Rework he's become increasingly better at all traits, but still is lacking in comparison to other more defined frames. A Redmage, if you will. That's a bummer, yes, is like to see him become god tier too, but the jack of all trades is never god tier.

That aside your concept seems alright enough. But definitely not Oberon.

[Zookes]

9 hours ago, VBNXS said:

I do not know about the normal missions but currently, the only way to keep my power up is [Rage]. Guardian derision would work really well with Oberon as he can take hits when needed and cast reckoning to proc radiation when done.

This I understand. I enjoy using normally the Oberon having Quick Thinking and Rage.

Tho when a Nekros summons shadows, I lose energy faster than it is possible to regain it even under sustained fire from multiple lvl 60 heavy gunners. I even do not take any energy damage from Quick Thinking at such low levels because the regen is so high, tho it should not be the case that I must bathe in bullets constantly to sustain renewal - this becomes impractical at levels 100+.

It is simply not possible to play with anyone using Nekros, and also very bad when Nidus summons maggots or Titania summons razorflies.

Edited May 22, 2017 by Zookes

[Doomsknightmare]

2 hours ago, MarrikBroom said:

A lot of us are tired of screaming into the wind to be heard. I know i am anyway.

Just look at the Ash revisit thread, over 120 pages and still going on, but I think DE's done with him (imo Ash is still more viable than Oberon in higher level).

Our last hope is that DE gives Oberon a final patch to do him justice when his PA comes out, but if there's no patch, I doubt DE will patch him in the future.

16 minutes ago, Zookes said:

It is simply not possible to play with anyone using Nekros, and also very bad when Nidus summons maggots or Titania summons razorflies.

Yeah lets hope they fix it when his PA comes out. Either remove the renewal effect on those summoned allies or change the energy cost of renewal.

[peterc3]

3 hours ago, Chipputer said:

His Feyarch skin is the only full on druidic look that he has. Even at that he gets a Sword and Shield which isn't something generally associated with druids.

If you look at his base skin you see that he very clearly has armor on while also having gnarly bits of branches and antlers sticking out. He's a nature themed Paladin. The problem is that they then stick him next to trees in his statue, give him a fairy premium skin, and put a frame in the game named Titania so it's got people all confused.

Just trying to untangle this idea that somehow, despite all evidence to the contrary, Oberon - wearing plate armor, wielding a mace and firing off divine light - is secretly a druid and DE is being mean and hiding his true self.

[Metsudo]

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)DRG JupiterIvan said:

I've seen a few things regarding this type of "theme" the issue is that what you're suggesting isn't Oberon. It's a plant based frame. Oberon thematically is a cross between a Druid and a Paladin. What you have here is neither, but instead is more like a Dryad.

Just because his Deluxe Skin slightly resembles something plantlike doesn't mean his theme is plants. If anything he's more kin to wildlife and the restoration and protection of life itself be it by healing or by brute force.

That being said I do believe the topic of Oberon's viability should be discussed at length between the community, but first everyone that joins this discussion must understand what Oberon's role and theme is.

Here I'll help.

He's both a Druid and Paladin. Adept at healing, protecting and fighting with what's typically "light" or "holy" magic. But since Warframe doesn't really have anything like that, Radiation it is!

He's a Jack of all trades and a master of none. With the Rework he's become increasingly better at all traits, but still is lacking in comparison to other more defined frames. A Redmage, if you will. That's a bummer, yes, is like to see him become god tier too, but the jack of all trades is never god tier.

That aside your concept seems alright enough. But definitely not Oberon.

Yeah, spit balling new skills and trying to come up with something interesting ain't the easiest. To be honest the tree and plants focus was all I could come up with when I was thinking about it. I mean, considering how bad the AI is in warframe I dropped the idea of anything AI based pretty quick. The Idea of using bark and trees etc came more from the designs of his helmets. The antlers always struck me as very tree like (real life ones too, they even look like tree bark on some animals).

With the radiation, I always felt kind of weird about it, as you said he's a paladin/druid. Considering that, radiation should be a terrible idea for a nature based frame, as radiation is do destructive to life in general, but as you say, their isn't a "light magic" damage type so any element likely wouldn't sit right. Cheers for the analysis.

[Cervello_Neo]

Oberon, oh how I adore thee. Probably my favourite frame since the day he came out. I enjoy playing support in games rather than a tank or dps, so his introduction felt like a good addition to the game, but he was never really a meaningful frame for support to be worth it. Since the rework I am torn between what works and what is simply a facade for what could be so much better.

All of his powers are incomplete, and I personally think don't coincide with his theme. They may hold names that give off this paladin image but none of them really do anything other than radiate people which is hardly fitting for a paladin. Furthermore it seems that he has a direct link with wildlife that the Devs dont want to let go of, but I struggle to see how it can be of use to a team that more often than not uses sentinels. Nonetheless Oberon is getting primed with a shoddy rework that I can only hope is fixed with the prime release. As for now these are my suggestions for what can be changed, what works and what doesn't.

First off, Smite is fine, but needs to make a choice. It either does damage that is meaningful, does meaningful CC or grants players buffs. Right now smite does fine damage to a heavy gunner with all armour stripped, but with armour does nothing to show it is a 'smiting' ability. Smite being a knockdown is good, a solid way to disable a strong enemy instantly is fine, but what follows should be the selling point. Maybe it can be tied to whether the damage is done to armour, shields or health, but getting buffing orbs that fly to players from smite might make it more of an ability to be used. In this manner, nobody will complain that Oberon cannot kill if smite gives them, say some damage reduction or health or even overshields. In my opinion the first ability should reflect the direction the rest of the powers will go down, and making the first a buffing ability before a damage or cc will solidify his position.

Hallowed ground is fine as it stands. It can be seen in two ways as; it is either a static field that does DoT and Radiation to enemies, or you can make it a moving field around Oberon that no longer radiates, but provides a moving Armour reduction field for players, which stacks with smite (if you smite an armoured enemy). Staying near Oberon now means less damage taken, which increases the likelihood or survival. It might also have a minor burn field for enemies, so that when they uncomfortably close to Oberon they incur a very weak burn proc for CC.

Having Hallowed ground act like a field around Oberon makes Renewal and its subsequent buff easier to apply. But the issue is how this is a redundant thing to have. I found that Oberon will drain energy to gain lots of Armour but the moment you fall or lose it, you become incredibly weak and susceptible to dying outright. This only applies to Oberon but it puts a lot of weight onto him not messing up because it will disable all the buffs. To counteract that Iron Renewal should cap at lowest time it can stay active after renewal is toggled off as 10 seconds. Either that or raise Oberons armour enough so that even without it you will not go down within seconds. To acquire meaningful armour, you do very much give up tonnes of energy.

Finally reckoning. Reckoning means punishment for past mistakes, so why not make that the scaling ability that defines Oberon? You activate it, and then it can be used in two ways. First it should taunt enemies to fight Oberon, then from there it has a timer on how long it lasts, say 20 seconds, in that 20 seconds Oberon is immune to knockdown but incurs all damage, and its a matter of two choices; either you try to outlast the timer to cast the smash ability relative to damage done to him, or he dies and upon death are revived but with a massive blast that instead immobilizes enemies with holy roots of some sort for 10 seconds or so. In this way he can either to huge damage or die early and revive for immobilization. For balancing purposes the immobilize power and time can be linked to how long he lives before he dies, so dying after 19 seconds would cause a great AoE than dying after 5.

 

I also think his passive should allow him to either have 2 pets, or grant unique buffs to allies if he has a pet at random.

 

Do you think these changes are possible or meaningful? this is just what I would like to see based on whats been seen already.

[LODESAMONEY]

I haven't played since then, been trying to wait out Oberon Prime, which I've heard is probably the next frame in line to be Primed. 

Has Oberon improved in any way since the last time I played, around Christmas of 2016? Or is the class still shunned by the purist master race with no love for the hybrids?

[Olianu]

Short Answer from my own personal view of it being my favorite frame:  yes.  He has been improved quite a bit.

He got a base energy buff from 100 - 150

Smite now not only deals base damage but the orbs that ricochet off now deal base damage and percent health of the opponents health and shields.  still kept the damage cut, radiation proc and knock down.

Hallowed Ground has a radiation proc and its field of effect has been increased to being 180 degrees and increases in radius and distance with range.

Renewal synchronizes with HG so you can get a numerical armor buff instead of percentage armor buff (as I have it built now, it's 400 armor and 80 HP regen along with a base heal.  Practically perfect with rage!)

Reckoning does initially slightly less damage, but on any radiation proced enemies, they take bonus damage.
 

Smite and Recknoing also deal both impact and radiation damage evenly, so he can be used more effectively against the corpus as well as grineer.  While still not too good against most infested, he can still be used for support in infested missions.  Most people that complain about him now are too blind and refuse to see how he's been improved and it's a loud minority saying he sucks.