No More Nerfs

[Arcainyx]

13 hours ago, Insizer said:

...rustled my jimmies...

El Oh El.  Upvoted for use of this phrase.

[FATEdPondera]

19 hours ago, (PS4)Kazaroosue said:

I refuse to accept anymore nerfs from this point on in Warframe. Everything from here on out should either be a buff or a rework..

Want to know what the difference between is between a Tenno and an entitled millennial? Tenno go to war with the arsenal they have, instead of the one they want. The entitled scream for it, as if DE is now somehow beholden to them, until they feel like they've gotten what they want. You can stamp your feet and wail against it all that you like, but nerfs and buffs will be constant in game like this. And if you don't like that, well.... https://youtu.be/CVNBxGpvYhM?t=7s

[Tesseract7777]

19 hours ago, (PS4)Kazaroosue said:

Well i WISH we could all have a normal civil discussion with people, but when someone (Me) starts expressing an opinion everyone goes crazy..can't have a good normal chat for nothing.  

The reason why is that you started off with a very old, very tired, very fallacious statement/argument that even those against more nerfs are generally tired of hearing. 

Saying that "stuff shouldn't be nerfed because it is PvE" is a fundamental misunderstanding of game design and the issues involving nerfs and buffs. Even those who are generally against more nerfs can come up with real reasons. 

"It shouldn't be nerfed because it is "PvE" isn't just a bad reason to not nerf, it isn't a reason at all. It shows you want to be a god, but don't understand what gives a game actual longevity. 

Yes some people are being condescending and that is unnecessary, but look back at your post and think about the tone you started with. Think about the argument you chose to go with, and how you essentially wrote a rant, implying you would quit if DE didn't cave you your demands and give you your way perfectly. Believe it or not, you started off with a confrontational first post. 

Edited May 3, 2017 by Tesseract7777

[(XBOX)Solargeo]

20 hours ago, (PS4)Kazaroosue said:

I refuse to accept anymore nerfs from this point on in Warframe. Everything from here on out should either be a buff or a rework..

I never... NEVER understood nerfs in a PvE game.. i would completely understand a nerf if this was a PvP game.. but it's not.. (Yes it does have PvP i know) but it's not Warframes bread and butter.

I love you D.E i really.. really.. REALLY do.. but your nerfs completely destroy Weapons/Frames..

UNLESS there is something in the game that can kill all enemies before they even spawn... then yea.. go ahead and nerf that lol, but if one person can kick butt all on his own... then let him... and if you think the Cheesing is a bit to much with a frame or weapon... just use a "DIFFERENT" Weapon/Frame

I'm going to be honest with you.. i might be completely off here... but i feel a lot of people including myself like feeling like our own gods.. a god doesn't wield a nerf bat...

Also.. D.E please... PLEASE just add more unique and difficult enemies.. in my opinion Nullifiers are good for Warframe.. it keeps stuff from getting nerfed... so.. before you take away our toys D.E please consider just adding a larger variety of harder enemies to fight such as Nullifiers.

Ok.. i'v said my peace, maybe i'm off my rocker here.. but i felt the need to say something..

 

Or do you feel D.E should keep nerfing things into oblivion? 

Opinions?

 

I am going to be honest. Nerfs in a PvE game are needed. In games like warframe. Because lets say they make my Strum Minigun. if it is not powerful enoght it would be ranked to 30 and not used afterwords.  unless someone gt a really good riven for it,  . Most people like 1 hit weapons. .. who doesn't? idk. But when there is a way for one weapon to make it so no one but the user REALLY gets kills how is that fun to the other three?, I like  non one hit killers more becauseI at to see enemies being chunked because if it can keep that power across the enemy board sure I don't go over and hour. Partly because of my internet.  

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

My issue with the nerfs is that there is always going to be someone stronger than the other 3 ppl in the squad.  There are simply too many ways to kill quickly other than the mirage/simulor, telBoltace, tonkor  - so arguing those should be nerfed to prevent one player from killing everything is just silly.  For starchart content there is still - Saryn, Ember, Equinox, Limbo, banshee etc... there is still spray and pray 5 forma ignis etc...

Arguing for nerfs based on that it is co-op and there is no place for anything that allows 1 person to dominate the killing is pointless - that ship sailed long ago. The only way to get there is to have all weapons do the same damage and eliminate WF abilities. Oh and get rid of the mod system so people can't make their prime blaster do more damage than poor johnny's prime blaster who wasn't so lucky as to get that prime blaster riven, or afford the catalyst.

What was annoying was the constant pew-pew-pew and vortexes left behind of the simulor, the particle effects of the boltace spin.  

I can't speak to the other platforms, but on Xbox One in pub matches i never felt people were always using the same meta weapons - I saw lots of variety.  And on the few occasions I did end up with annoying simulor mirage(for example), I simply left at the first opportunity at re-squaded up.  Never even had to worry about going invite only etc.

If something is released and is identified as being broken immediately - fix it. but come on - if its been in the game for years? Buff the other crap to bring it up to speed (as they are attempting with oberon, limbo and need to do with wukong, zephyr etc.)

nerf stuff too much and all you do is have ppl put it in the garbarge   (Trinity I'm looking at you -only dusted off for raids) - just to have them pick up the next meta weapon that ppl will get salty about.

[Tesseract7777]

9 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

My issue with the nerfs is that there is always going to be someone stronger than the other 3 ppl in the squad.  

If you think this is the point of nerfs, then I think you miss the point of nerfs. I think a lot of people get upset about nerfs because they think it is to "make sure everyone in the squad is equal" or to "punish them for getting more kills/make it harder for them to do so", etc. I can understand where this misconception comes from, but that isn't the reason for nerfs. 

The reason is simply overall balance. If they realize that one weapon, equal in modding to other similar weapons, is doing far and away the stronger damage, it makes sense from a developer perspective to balance those weapons to encourage player choice and variety. A developer also has limited time for fixing, as they need to spend the majority of their time making new stuff. So what do they choose? Do they bring that one weapon down to the others level? Or do they buff all of the other ones? When you have limited time as a developer, and this is the case for basically all devs everywhere, the answer to that question is obvious. 

It isn't about punishing you for using strong stuff. It isn't meant to ruin your enjoyment. It isn't done to try to make sure others get as many kills as you. If you try hard with mods and the right weapons, and getting lots of kills is your thing, there will always be plenty of ways to do that. 

The reason for nerfs is to overall balance the game in the most efficient way possible. Are nerfs always done correctly? No. Sometimes they overbalance. Sometimes they make the wrong choices imo. But I think you and many others are fundamentally misunderstanding why nerfs take place. It isn't about slapping your hand and taking your toys away, it is about trying to protect the overall longevity and health of the game. 

Edited May 3, 2017 by Tesseract7777

[DeadScream]

Oh no, my room clearing toy has been nerfed and now those pub peasants will be able to actually play the game, and I will be forced to aim at stuff and move in order to avoid dying :'( 

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

3 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

If you think this is the point of nerfs, then I think you miss the point of nerfs. I think a lot of people get upset about nerfs because they think it is to "make sure everyone in the squad is equal" or to "punish them for getting more kills/make it harder for them to do so", etc. I can understand where this misconception comes from, but that isn't the reason for nerfs. 

...

The reason for nerfs is to overall balance the game in the most efficient way possible. Are nerfs always done correctly? No. Sometimes the overbalance. Sometimes they make the wrong choices imo. But I think you and many others are fundamentally misunderstanding why nerfs take place. 

I was simply responding to an oft-quoted theory on nerfs in PvE to prevent the one from ruining the fun of the other three.  I'm sure if you read back in this thread and many others like it you'll find many references to this.

As for balance - the point still stands: the game will never be balanced -nor IMHO need it be. put stuff behind MRlocks and give ppl a reason to get there. I'm not shedding any tears over any recent changes because the weapons now suck (they don't) - MY issue is that it is annoying to have something be in game for so long, then put a lot of resources into it and get screwed out of those resources.

For example - I HATE self damage weapons and avoid them since I always manage to kill myself and doing a lot of solo survivals with no one around to revive me is no fun.  So I don't use the zarr, and didn't use the Penta - until sticky grenades made it no self damage - then I put a catalyst and 6 forma on it.  And got one forma back on something i'm unlikely to ever use again.  I put a catalyst and 7 forma on the tonkor - and got on forma back: again on something I'm never going to use.  

My issue with the nerfs coming late (as opposed to immediately after something is released) is now i've invested a lot of time and resources into its playstyle.  My time is wasted and lost - but at least give me back what I put into it.  I would have preferred they refunded ALL the catalysts & forma on the nerfed weapons back to our inventory, reset the weapon to rank 0  and let us decide if we want to use those resources on it or spend them better somewhere else.

 

[Tesseract7777]

2 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

My issue with the nerfs coming late (as opposed to immediately after something is released) is now i've invested a lot of time and resources into its playstyle.  My time is wasted and lost - but at least give me back what I put into it.  I would have preferred they refunded ALL the catalysts & forma on the nerfed weapons back to our inventory, reset the weapon to rank 0  and let us decide if we want to use those resources on it or spend them better somewhere else.

 

This is one thing I can sympathize with. In some cases I think if a weapon has been allowed to be OP for long enough, a lot of salt would be avoided if they gave people better compensation of some kind. I'm not exactly sure on what would be appropriate compensation, but I don't think one forma is really enough, no. Not when a weapon has been fundamentally changed in the case of the Simulor/Tonkor/Boltace. I mean, those weren't just stat changes, they were significant changes to the weapon mechanics. 

That said, even if it is years later, if the devs realize something needs to be nerfed, imo for the sake of balance it should be nerfed. Better late than never. However, I do agree that if it has been a very long time, and the change is drastic enough, more compensation than a forma would be warranted, and would probably limit the actual anger over the situation to a much smaller group of people. 

[(XBOX)BULLS 0N PAR4DE]

Boy another one whining about change. Grow up mate.... LOL

[(PSN)Kazaroosue]

((PLEASE READ BEFORE COMMENTING))

 

Warframe is an amazing game with much potential, i'm sure many of you would agree!

When i made this thread it was being directed at D.E nuking things within the game, nothing against D.E, i'm just tired of ranking up certain Weapons and Gear to only find out later it's getting nerfed to the point not many people wanna use it anymore (Cough, Cough.. Acrid..Cough), am i going to cry and throw a fit? of course not, even though some of you thought i was quote "Throwing a Tantrum" It's just my Tv generating pixels if you wanna look at it from a literal point of view. Also i am not going to change what i said in my original post, i still stand by what i said, despite many of you disagreeing with me. But please try to understand that i am NOT against change, i am against making weapon garbage.  When i said i didn't understand why a PvE game should ever get nerfs i meant that in the way that i don't understand why they would release a weapon to us and wait a long time until they decide to nerf it, it's just grinds my gears a bit, am i going to stop playing Warframe because they nuked my in game problem solver? Of course not, i love Warframe to pieces, and i only want to see it get better overtime.   I have no desire to allow Abilities/Weapons into Warframe that can wipe an entire tile set clean before the enemies spawn (Yes, that was an Over-Exaggerated example) But being powerful doesn't mean it's broken or has to get nerfed, i just feel a lot of the other things in the game should be buffed rather then nerfed. i just wish... D.E would measure twice before adding something into the game, i know D.E isn't perfect and i know there will always be errors considering we aren't perfect, but i just wish D.E would consider something a bit longer before adding it into the game, lessening the amount of errors overall. 

 

I didn't create this thread to make enemies, i just wanted to express that i am displeased with some of the little things within the game. 

Also, i don't think i wish to reply anymore in this thread, it has served its purpose. i'm still getting comments from people that don't agree with my post that i simply can't keep up with, nor do i wish to argue with them. With a few closing words, please understand that i am not perfect, it's a bit hard for me to get my point across when typing something up on the internet, i feel a lot of my points are overlooked do to my poor typing skills, it's kinda funny because in real life i can conjure up almost any kinda word to fit the situation, but when i try typing what i want to say.. it's just for some reason hard for me, or perhaps i just have a short attention span and if i don't say what i want to quickly i'll just end up loosing what i wanted to say all together.. I have long term memory.. it's just short term memory isn't my strong suit.

I hope i explained my self well enough just now to remedy the situation, i don't wish to get under anyones bad side, i'm just trying to express my opinion is all.  I hope down the road years from now Warframe is still a thriving community with dedicated players.. i just hope the next Weapon or Warframe they add is set in concrete rather then waiting 6 months to nerf it.   

And even though i don't agree with all of your comments i still appreciate your time for commenting.

-Alex

 

[TheBrsrkr]

3 hours ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

My issue with the nerfs is that there is always going to be someone stronger than the other 3 ppl in the squad.  There are simply too many ways to kill quickly other than the mirage/simulor, telBoltace, tonkor  - so arguing those should be nerfed to prevent one player from killing everything is just silly.  For starchart content there is still - Saryn, Ember, Equinox, Limbo, banshee etc... there is still spray and pray 5 forma ignis etc...

The issue isn't that you are stronger in general, the issue is that you are so much stronger that any other option is simply not viable. Other options that other players might choose. This in turn affects weapon and frame diversity, which affects the balance of the game, which in the  end affects DE's coffers. Clearing masses of enemies in the starchart is not an issue because the starchart was never meant to be faced by fully ranked and minded weapons and frames.

A simple comparison :Braton and Latron Prime, and the Secura Penta. The Penta is the most powerful of the three in raw damage and also in the way it can damage and most likely kill more enemies at a time than them.  It also has the syndicate effect and I think a riven mod? So why would I use the Latron or Braton Prime? 

Well, maybe  I prefer punch through to targeting a group. Maybe I regularly kill myself with explosives. Maybe I'm more a marksman player than a bomber, and I can headshot a lot of enemies fairly quickly. Maybe I prefer armor stripping and slash props to straight damage. Maybe I prefer hit scan to travel time. A host of other reasons. The guns don't stops working with the  Secura Penta, they're alternatives, and  though they're  strictly weaker, they're still viable. Compare that to baby's first launcher, the Tonkor, or the S. Simulor where you could just run and shoot and not even have to aim and everything would die. 

 

 

So this:

4 hours ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

...rguing for nerfs based on that it is co-op and there is no place for anything that allows 1 person to dominate the killing is pointless - that ship sailed long ago. The only way to get there is to have all weapons do the same damage and eliminate WF abilities. Oh and get rid of the mod system so people can't make their prime blaster do more damage than poor johnny's prime blaster who wasn't so lucky as to get that prime blaster riven, or afford the catalyst.

Is fundamentally flawed in premise, as not all weapons need to be the same, just viable in different ways. 

[blackheartstar_pc]

8 hours ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

I can't speak to the other platforms, but on Xbox One in pub matches i never felt people were always using the same meta weapons - I saw lots of variety. 

I play on both PC and PS4 and can say that the usage of these "op/meta weapons" in random matches was greatly exaggerated here. Really outside Exterminate Alerts you hardly ever see them.

[Tamirn]

15 hours ago, (PS4)Kazaroosue said:

But Warframe is not that kinda game.. and i doubt it ever will be that kinda game, go play the first Dark Souls or something if you want a challenge.

You have hundreds of other weapons and with the use of Riven mod you now have more option then your crutch AKA Tonkor, Syndoid Simlor.

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

Back when I was a nooblet I actually left the game because everyone else was destroying everything and I felt like dead weight. I understand the need for a carry weapon (I was reintroduced with a good boltor build so I could progress through the game) but as a vet I'm incredibly bored by resting on those laurels. And as a co-op game I've had better experiences in other titles like Payday and Destiny so seeing changes meant to address that is always welcome. Oh and those nerfs were well deserved.

Simulor became a drive-by weapon when every mechanic pointed to being a defense weapon.

Tonkor was basically an explosive shotgun. Though self-damage is a band-aid fix.

Telos Boltace was far and above every other syndicate melee which all had little bonus attributes.

[Teloch]

On 03.05.2017 at 2:09 AM, (PS4)Kazaroosue said:

~snoop~

 

OP be like 

 

[(PSN)supernova_girlie]

I feel like you do, Kazaroosue, I want power and more power! I respect that the game belongs to the developers and they have the final say about what goes on, but I don't play video games to gain self-esteem or prove to the world that I can one shot Vay Hek with a drinking straw while aim gliding. I play for a different kind of fun. However, some people are into that kind of stuff and it's fun for them. The developers can't please everyone.

I also feel that with great power comes great responsibility. Only very rarely did anyone on PS4 run into my Miragulor, because I know that other people want to have fun as well. It's not fun to watch someone nuke a map over and over again. That's the main problem, too many people will show up to public missions to do just that. Denying other players the ability to participate is just going to force them to look elsewhere for fun. The developers can't fix stupid, they can only make logical changes to prevent stupid from killing their game.

As a side note: the Limbos don't bother me, because even I had to try that nuke build out! It's still new for us and from what I understand it is getting nerfed. I wish we could keep it, but morons will bring Limbo to fissures and the reactants will be strewn from here to kingdom come.

P.S.S: Tennos, if you bring your Banshee to a fissure, please for the love of Spock, wait till everyone gets their reactants before doing sound quake. And try not to ever use it when in a farming party.

[AuroraSonicBoom]

Oh I'd love to have much more frequent nerfs and balance, actually. Choosing power creep to protect the feelings of a few megalomaniacs? Screw that! It's a shame that broken OP stuff sells, otherwise we'd have a much better game. But hey, at least DE comes around curbstomping the meta once in a while. It's just way, way, wayyy to infrequent for my tastes.

[Teloch]

1 minute ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

Oh I'd love to have much more frequent nerfs and balance, actually. Choosing power creep to protect the feelings of a few megalomaniacs? Screw that! It's a shame that broken OP stuff sells, otherwise we'd have a much better game. But hey, at least DE comes around curbstomping the meta once in a while. It's just way, way, wayyy to infrequent for my tastes.

 

Savage, but true.

I tip my hat to thee, brutal anonymous.

[(PSN)chubbslawson]

Nerfing and buffing are failure on de to do due diligence on their end to get right before they release it 

[Zeclem]

1 hour ago, (PS4)chubbslawson said:

Nerfing and buffing are failure on de to do due diligence on their end to get right before they release it 

or maybe, just maybe, its the fact that a couple thousand people will always generate more data than a company in a lot shorter time? you know, data that is actually needed to balance weaponry?

[CeePee]

1 hour ago, (PS4)chubbslawson said:

Nerfing and buffing are failure on de to do due diligence on their end to get right before they release it 

There will always be more people playing the game than at DE testing the game, we can 'test' more stuff in an hour than DE can in a month.

Players come up with clever ways and combinations to use said new equipment, and something overly OP might slip through.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

1 hour ago, (PS4)chubbslawson said:

Nerfing and buffing are failure on de to do due diligence on their end to get right before they release it 

No game in the history of gaming has managed to accomplish that. 

You must be new to gaming..lol There will always be nerfs, buffs, fixes, and balances they happen, they will always happen...stop crying, adapt and move on. 

Edited May 4, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[FairyTael]

1 hour ago, (PS4)chubbslawson said:

Nerfing and buffing are failure on de to do due diligence on their end to get right before they release it 

Someone doesn't understand how game development works.

[(PSN)chubbslawson]

I'm 50 years old so I'm not new to gaming if that's the case if they want us to test it they shouldn't  let us go for two or three years with overpowered stuff before they fix it maybe let us test it for a month or two and then fix it