Desvero Posted June 7, 2017 Author Share Posted June 7, 2017 1 minute ago, Navarchus said: Well, it would just follow around and you can click X on specters to order them to hold position. Very solid idea wish we could see such a change in warframe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doubleplus Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Lemme lay out an example of why votekicking is a bad idea. This is a story that happened to me personally. The game was TF2, and it was around the time the Tale of Two Cities tour was introduce to MvM. This tour had 4 games on two maps, Rottenburg and Mannhattan, with Mannhattan being the important map here. Now Mannhattan was a fairly difficult map. However, being prone to experimenting with new tactics after suffering loss after loss I discovered that Spy essentially counters everything that made it difficult. The horde of Crit huntsman snipers and their medics who, if left unchecked, could wipe an entire team where vulnerable to being chainstabbed. Giant Medics could be sapped and backstabbed repeatedly to kill it the moment it entered the field. The giant rapid fire crit soldier had a long reload time, making leaving him vulnerable to be backstabbed over and over to take out a chunk of his health, then you could use deadringer to escape safely ungibbed. However, at least at the time (Im not entirely sure what the meta is like nowadays) it was unheard of to play spy in MvM. So even after I had completed the tour six times over, I still ran into votekick after votekick after votekick after votekick because I was deemed a "Waste of a playerslot" by people with less than half the tours I did. It was essentially near impossible for me to play a the game simply because I didnt fall into the rigidly established and staunchly player-enforced meta. What you will find is that these toxic players, leeches, and afkers are relatively common but more often than not, you wont be in a match with them. However, votekick systems on the other hand force a "Play the way a group wants you to or dont play at all." No matter how bad these players are, its much worse getting kicked over and over again becuase you want to play with a frame or weapon set you want rather than playing trinity for the umpteenth billionth time becuase selfish pubs want a trin and dont want to play trin. Imagine never getting to play limbo again because no one wants to play with limbo and kick limbos with impunity. Imagine not getting to play frames that are deemed "Worthless" because players dont want you playing them. Thats the kind of mentality votekicking breeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navarc Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Doubleplus said: Lemme lay out an example of why votekicking is a bad idea. This is a story that happened to me personally. The game was TF2, and it was around the time the Tale of Two Cities tour was introduce to MvM. This tour had 4 games on two maps, Rottenburg and Mannhattan, with Mannhattan being the important map here. Now Mannhattan was a fairly difficult map. However, being prone to experimenting with new tactics after suffering loss after loss I discovered that Spy essentially counters everything that made it difficult. The horde of Crit huntsman snipers and their medics who, if left unchecked, could wipe an entire team where vulnerable to being chainstabbed. Giant Medics could be sapped and backstabbed repeatedly to kill it the moment it entered the field. The giant rapid fire crit soldier had a long reload time, making leaving him vulnerable to be backstabbed over and over to take out a chunk of his health, then you could use deadringer to escape safely ungibbed. However, at least at the time (Im not entirely sure what the meta is like nowadays) it was unheard of to play spy in MvM. So even after I had completed the tour six times over, I still ran into votekick after votekick after votekick after votekick because I was deemed a "Waste of a playerslot" by people with less than half the tours I did. It was essentially near impossible for me to play a the game simply because I didnt fall into the rigidly established and staunchly player-enforced meta. What you will find is that these toxic players, leeches, and afkers are relatively common but more often than not, you wont be in a match with them. However, votekick systems on the other hand force a "Play the way a group wants you to or dont play at all." No matter how bad these players are, its much worse getting kicked over and over again becuase you want to play with a frame or weapon set you want rather than playing trinity for the umpteenth billionth time becuase selfish pubs want a trin and dont want to play trin. Imagine never getting to play limbo again because no one wants to play with limbo and kick limbos with impunity. Imagine not getting to play frames that are deemed "Worthless" because players dont want you playing them. Thats the kind of mentality votekicking breeds. Make votekicks send a player report & false reports a suspendable offense? Abusing the voting system won't happen if you're locked out of your account for doing it. Just using /unstuck seconds a bug report with the necessary information, so I think it's quite possible. I'm aware it's not happening, DE does not want votekicking in their game, but I just know the faults of other games votekicking systems aren't entirely relevant since they can be improved upon. Edited June 7, 2017 by Navarchus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desvero Posted June 7, 2017 Author Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Doubleplus said: Lemme lay out an example of why votekicking is a bad idea. This is a story that happened to me personally. The game was TF2, and it was around the time the Tale of Two Cities tour was introduce to MvM. This tour had 4 games on two maps, Rottenburg and Mannhattan, with Mannhattan being the important map here. Now Mannhattan was a fairly difficult map. However, being prone to experimenting with new tactics after suffering loss after loss I discovered that Spy essentially counters everything that made it difficult. The horde of Crit huntsman snipers and their medics who, if left unchecked, could wipe an entire team where vulnerable to being chainstabbed. Giant Medics could be sapped and backstabbed repeatedly to kill it the moment it entered the field. The giant rapid fire crit soldier had a long reload time, making leaving him vulnerable to be backstabbed over and over to take out a chunk of his health, then you could use deadringer to escape safely ungibbed. However, at least at the time (Im not entirely sure what the meta is like nowadays) it was unheard of to play spy in MvM. So even after I had completed the tour six times over, I still ran into votekick after votekick after votekick after votekick because I was deemed a "Waste of a playerslot" by people with less than half the tours I did. It was essentially near impossible for me to play a the game simply because I didnt fall into the rigidly established and staunchly player-enforced meta. What you will find is that these toxic players, leeches, and afkers are relatively common but more often than not, you wont be in a match with them. However, votekick systems on the other hand force a "Play the way a group wants you to or dont play at all." No matter how bad these players are, its much worse getting kicked over and over again becuase you want to play with a frame or weapon set you want rather than playing trinity for the umpteenth billionth time becuase selfish pubs want a trin and dont want to play trin. Imagine never getting to play limbo again because no one wants to play with limbo and kick limbos with impunity. Imagine not getting to play frames that are deemed "Worthless" because players dont want you playing them. Thats the kind of mentality votekicking breeds. Could I get a TLDR summary please lol also how much issues do you guys have with "meta or elite" players? Besides the occasional limbo joke I have yet to see players act like this in a match but I do get a lot of these people that act like outraged 14 year old players lol that day things like :I'm going to find your house and throw a grenade through your window" and I'm going to murder your dog" and now the new "I'm going to @(*()$ rape your children as you watch". Can we trade I would rather deal with the Meta guys XD. Edited June 7, 2017 by Desvero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Big Wessss Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Yea implement a vote to kick system in this game and watch how quickly it'll backfire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiz3rd Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) I'm going to agree with the people who said it before: Everyone was a 'd-bag' in this situation, but the Frost player didn't do anything wrong to begin with, let him use his abilities... I'm not trying to protect him, but he was provoked into such a reaction, no wonder he got angry. If you don't like something, go solo or friends/invite only. That will save you a lot of anger and trouble. Edited June 7, 2017 by Wiz3rd D-bag is banned, apparently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desvero Posted June 7, 2017 Author Share Posted June 7, 2017 40 minutes ago, Wiz3rd said: I'm going to agree with the people who said it before: Everyone was a 'd-bag' in this situation, but the Frost player didn't do anything wrong to begin with, let him use his abilities... I'm not trying to protect him, but he was provoked into such a reaction, no wonder he got angry. If you don't like something, go solo or friends/invite only. That will save you a lot of anger and trouble. It's very concerning that you defend the actions of such a person. I'm responsible for my own action sure, I called him useless sure but you are saying my actions made him a racist and say very crude and hateful thing along the lines of rape and pedophilia? His action were his own, what he said was on him and no one else. This is why it's concerning. You give me to much credit for controlling the action of other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiz3rd Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 28 minutes ago, Desvero said: It's very concerning that you defend the actions of such a person. I'm responsible for my own action sure, I called him useless sure but you are saying my actions made him a racist and say very crude and hateful thing along the lines of rape and pedophilia? His action were his own, what he said was on him and no one else. This is why it's concerning. You give me to much credit for controlling the action of other people. All I'm trying to say is that none of this would've happen if you didn't start that conversation. It's also as if you didn't read my post. 1 hour ago, Wiz3rd said: I'm not trying to protect him 31 minutes ago, Desvero said: It's very concerning that you defend the actions of such a person. TL;DR: Don't act like a saint, you both were in the wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desvero Posted June 7, 2017 Author Share Posted June 7, 2017 Just now, Wiz3rd said: All I'm trying to say is that none of this would've happen if you didn't start that conversation. It's also as if you didn't read my post. TL;DR: Don't act like a saint, you both were in the wrong. Just now, Wiz3rd said: All I'm trying to say is that none of this would've happen if you didn't start that conversation. It's also as if you didn't read my post. TL;DR: Don't act like a saint, you both were in the wrong. Wrong or not I'm still not responsible for his action. Calling him useless wasn't forcing him to afk in his bubble all by him self or block the 3 halls that all the mobs come from. Me calling him useless wasn't forcing him to say the lines "It's mockery, you stupid @(*()$ *****" or "I'm going to rape your @(*()$ children and make you watch". His actions are his own. By your logic murders are not responsible for their own action as long as provoked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilvaDreams Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Nope. As always it would be abused and why DE has said many times it will never be a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desvero Posted June 7, 2017 Author Share Posted June 7, 2017 Just now, (PS4)RankRancid said: You guys were $&*^s to him and he was a bigger $&*^ back to you because you guys triggered him. What did you expect? Next time mind your own business and don't be mean to people and hopefully they won't be mean back if you were so offended by it. It just seems you guys were happy you triggered someone. If you want the game to be be revolved around you and your friends start a private group next time. That's how I see it anyway. Like I told the other guy you credit me and my random public teammates to much to controlling the actions of another player. As a side note the probability of 3 random people ganging up on 1 player for "Meta" reasons is probably a less likely situation than 3 random players being annoyed at the 1 random toxic player. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sar.K.Asmus Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) In this situation it would be great to have a kick system. I would vote to kick the guys, who you marked blue and white in the chat. Because this guys tell the Frost guy how he has to play and what he is allowed to do and what not. Oh wait a second one of them was you. Edited June 7, 2017 by Sarcasm4Free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiz3rd Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Desvero said: Wrong or not I'm still not responsible for his action. Calling him useless wasn't forcing him to afk in his bubble all by him self or block the 3 halls that all the mobs come from. Me calling him useless wasn't forcing him to say the lines "It's mockery, you stupid @(*()$ *****" or "I'm going to rape your @(*()$ children and make you watch". His actions are his own. By your logic murders are not responsible for their own action as long as provoked. No. By my logic a murderer would still be in jail. But in the given situation, you both should take responsibility for your actions. You for provoking him, and him for not keeping his cool and lashing out. Edited June 7, 2017 by Wiz3rd Typos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamma745 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 19 minutes ago, SilvaDreams said: Nope. As always it would be abused and why DE has said many times it will never be a thing. Man, can we get a link of DE statement on this? To make it the first response to these kind of threads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilvaDreams Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Just now, Gamma745 said: Man, can we get a link of DE statement on this? To make it the first response to these kind of threads? It's generally been responded to in Dev streams during their Q&A sections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desvero Posted June 7, 2017 Author Share Posted June 7, 2017 8 minutes ago, Sarcasm4Free said: In this situation it would be great to have a kick system. I would vote to kick the guys, who you marked blue and white in the chat. Because this guys tell the Frost guy how he has to play and what he is allowed to do and what not. Oh wait a second one of them was you. First comment was "Can you remove the bubble?" I guess asking is very rude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamma745 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Just now, SilvaDreams said: It's generally been responded to in Dev streams during their Q&A sections. Almost every time, huh? Thanks for the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallen_Echo Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 6 hours ago, Jackviator said: No. It would be abused. People will kick you if you: Are using a frame/weapon that isn't meta for the mission in question Are using a frame that's TOO meta for the mission in question Are using energy colors they don't like on weapons like the Zenistar or Synoid Simulor, or frames like Vauban Are using colors they don't like in general Don't even do anything, just for the lulz You brought limbo? Kick. You have too low mastery? Kick. Note to OP, we dont need a votekick system. I dont want to feed the trolls more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 I have no problem with smart players on defense, whether they're running frost, vauban, nova, or even limbo. Dumb players, on the other hand, I'll at least try to teach before they ruin everything. It's the obstinate and dumb players that I really can't stand. Screw those guys. It doesn't matter what frame they bring, they're going to ruin your experience. What's really been pissing me off more than anything though is the afk and technically-not-afk leechers who do squat and then leave after only 5 waves. They're not playing the game. They're simply online, interfering with people's games and being $&*^s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGodofWiFi Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 No, kick systems are abused all over the place. Don't need it here. Also you guys did kind of start on him. Yea his language was awful, but you were the ones telling him what to do. So you would be kicking a player who, whether or not his response was immature or not, was defending himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)drpunk-yo Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 7 hours ago, (PS4)XxDarkyanxX said: This. Edit : As I see the situation, three players ganged up on "Red", he kept being passive for 3/4 of the screened conversation before replying back to insult with insults. If anything, the three players that started bashing at him sound more guilty to me, but his ending behaviour is still nasty. I'm of this opinion too. Screw scrubs telling me how to play the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGodofWiFi Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Desvero said: His action were his own, what he said was on him and no one else. So if someone pokes an aggressive animal, it's not their fault when they get maimed? He would not have said all of that stuff if you three hadn't ganged up on him, started calling him useless and telling him how to play the game. You were the catalyst for his behaviour. He was right when he said at the end "I said nothing to you". Edited June 7, 2017 by TheGodofWiFi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myscho Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 PvP have autokick when afk, so why not PvE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)robotwars7 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) 9 hours ago, Desvero said: Do you think we should have a vote to kick system? no, because no matter how it is implemented, it can be abused. you can look at any game with a kick system, and no matter how many votes it takes to kick someone, it can still be abused by groups. it's never going to happen, DE said it themselves. so in future, I recommend you just leave/report/ignore toxic individuals. 9 hours ago, Desvero said: Bonus question: What are your thoughts on Frost in a Sortie Defense mission? Frost is a welcome and capable addition in a Sortie Defense.. when he's played right that is. the Frost you were with is the first Toxic Frist I think I've ever seen, so I can assure you they aren't all like that. I'd still argue that Slowva is better due to the non-static nature of the dumba$$ operative we have (how I would love to kill him myself....). Edited June 7, 2017 by (PS4)robotwars7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGodofWiFi Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Just now, Myscho said: PvP have autokick when afk, so why not PvE Because PvE already has a system for dealing with AFK players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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