LordMazulia Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, CaliburxZero said: The game is *almost* not pay-to-win. Its pay to progress... then you look at Rivens. I'm sure DE is 110% fine with good rivens going for 700+ plat a piece. It's not "almost" pay-to-win. It's simply not at all. DE doesn't make up the trade prices for Riven mods. That's what we, the players, did on our own. If someone is selling a riven for 700 plat, that's because they chose to sell it for that much. DE has nothing to do with that and has no way to change what people charge. Also, this game isn't pay-to-progress either, because you don't need to pay in order to progress. It's pay to skip ahead at the very most. Edited June 8, 2017 by LordMazulia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zNightWolfz Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 not P2W at all farm a relic or 2 make the plats easy done... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)freakytiki3 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 i really don't think it's pay to win as there is no advantage to buying something in game versus farming or grinding it out, if you buy prime access you only get the weapons and frames faster no real difference to farming it. I buy platinum and the only thing that's really available to buy is cosmetics which are cool to have but they don't make me "win" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamma745 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 51 minutes ago, (PS4)Spider_Enigma said: u can get all of the parts of octavia without even doing second dream... including doing the quest Hold up, where do you get this info? Even the quest require Second Dream http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Octavia's_Anthem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliburxZero Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Just now, LordMazulia said: It's not "almost" pay-to-win. It's simply not at all. DE doesn't make up the market prices for Riven mods. That's what we, the players, did on our own. If someone is selling a riven for 700 plat, that's because they chose to sell it for that much. DE has nothing to do with that and has no way to change what people charge. Also, this game isn't pay-to-progress either, because you don't need to pay in order to progress. It's pay to skip ahead at the very most. Just because you don't like what I got to say, doesn't mean it isn't true, lol. Check-in on the feedback section from Evanescent regarding Rivens, the system is awful to get anything good. It was obvious what such a system would do, aka engender high prices because its not honestly realistic to expect to enjoy said system without dropping alot of plat for alot of the weapons u want while it being a massive grind. If DE were to make the system easier to obtain good rivens, aka increasing "supply", then demand would be met easier. Which means more holders of good rivens, which means prices would go down due to competition to get theirs sold. So DE would make less money, because that means less people buying plat for the reason to get them in the first place. The prices that we players have hiked it to is a direct indicator of the realistic chances of getting a nice riven. In any case, I know better than to touch this subject any further than this one post. There will always be people who want to deny these facts, but there are plenty who have taken the time to explain this much more in-detail and eloquently than I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Spider_Enigma Posted June 8, 2017 Author Share Posted June 8, 2017 1 minute ago, Gamma745 said: Hold up, where do you get this info? Even the quest require Second Dream http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Octavia's_Anthem i went to say war within, but i was half asleep and now i have coffee, and im 2 lazy to fix it XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaero Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Very, very reasonable. I've been hearing the same about Overwatch lately. Limited skins and emotes somehow make players play better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaero Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 14 minutes ago, (Xbox One)freakytiki3 said: I buy platinum and the only thing that's really available to buy is cosmetics which are cool to have but they don't make me "win" Many conclave players would disagree. They believe Targis armor somehow deflects bullets and Jattuk syandana (grineer jetpack) allows you to fly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaero Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 15 minutes ago, CaliburxZero said: Just because you don't like what I got to say, doesn't mean it isn't true, lol. Check-in on the feedback section from Evanescent regarding Rivens, the system is awful to get anything good. It was obvious what such a system would do, aka engender high prices because its not honestly realistic to expect to enjoy said system without dropping alot of plat for alot of the weapons u want while it being a massive grind. If DE were to make the system easier to obtain good rivens, aka increasing "supply", then demand would be met easier. Which means more holders of good rivens, which means prices would go down due to competition to get theirs sold. So DE would make less money, because that means less people buying plat for the reason to get them in the first place. The prices that we players have hiked it to is a direct indicator of the realistic chances of getting a nice riven. In any case, I know better than to touch this subject any further than this one post. There will always be people who want to deny these facts, but there are plenty who have taken the time to explain this much more in-detail and eloquently than I. Anyways, it's not like any Riven makes a weapon 100 times better? We somehow played before their introduction, right? Game's difficulty (trivial) hasn't changed at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamma745 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 5 minutes ago, Ksaero said: Very, very reasonable. I've been hearing the same about Overwatch lately. Limited skins and emotes somehow make players play better. Nice Sarcasm. 2 minutes ago, Ksaero said: Many conclave players would disagree. They believe Targis armor somehow deflects bullets and Jattuk syandana (grineer jetpack) allows you to fly. Is that really a joke that is happening between the Conclave veterans? Sorry, not really a conclave regular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordMazulia Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Just now, CaliburxZero said: Just because you don't like what I got to say, doesn't mean it isn't true, lol. Check-in on the feedback section from Evanescent regarding Rivens, the system is awful to get anything good. It was obvious what such a system would do, aka engender high prices because its not honestly realistic to expect to enjoy said system without dropping alot of plat for alot of the weapons u want while it being a massive grind. If DE were to make the system easier to obtain good rivens, aka increasing "supply", then demand would be met easier. Which means more holders of good rivens, which means prices would go down due to competition to get theirs sold. So DE would make less money, because that means less people buying plat for the reason to get them in the first place. The prices that we players have hiked it to is a direct indicator of the realistic chances of getting a nice riven. In any case, I know better than to touch this subject any further than this one post. There will always be people who want to deny these facts, but there are plenty who have taken the time to explain this much more in-detail and eloquently than I. First of all, I didn't say or act like I didn't "like" what you had to say. Second of all, everything you said in that comment wasn't truth, it was an opinion. As for this comment, Riven mods aren't needed at all, and they don't even give players much of an advantage over others. If someone wants to sell a mod for hundreds of plat, that's the players choice, just as it's the players choice to spend as much. Arcanes also cost large amounts of Plat too, but those prices, just like the prices for Riven mods, are set by us players. Only a small portion of players truly even care about getting the absolute best Rivens. Most others are content with getting decent ones, which there are plenty of and aren't too hard to get on your own. Not liking the rarity of something or the prices people charge for them doesn't make the game pay to win. As I said before, DE doesn't make the prices, the players do. And it's not as if DE is selling Riven mods on the market, as they can only be added into the game through sorties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaero Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Just now, Gamma745 said: Is that really a joke that is happening between the Conclave veterans? Sorry, not really a conclave regular. No jokes here, back in times when I was enjoying conclave, I've been hearing those accusations almost every match I played. Also, prime weapons were treated there as incredibly overpowered endgame stuff, trying to explain how weapons stats are tweaked in cc didn't help. Later I tried going with uncolored stock Excal and MK-1 Braton and was called hacker. Don't know what was worse - being a hacker or p2winner. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamma745 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 3 minutes ago, Ksaero said: No jokes here, back in times when I was enjoying conclave, I've been hearing those accusations almost every match I played. Also, prime weapons were treated there as incredibly overpowered endgame stuff, trying to explain how weapons stats are tweaked in cc didn't help. Later I tried going with uncolored stock Excal and MK-1 Braton and was called hacker. Don't know what was worse - being a hacker or p2winner. :D Guess people are just salty and want to blame something, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamma745 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 (edited) Ignore this Edited June 8, 2017 by Gamma745 Dang double post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordMazulia Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 8 minutes ago, Ksaero said: No jokes here, back in times when I was enjoying conclave, I've been hearing those accusations almost every match I played. Also, prime weapons were treated there as incredibly overpowered endgame stuff, trying to explain how weapons stats are tweaked in cc didn't help. Later I tried going with uncolored stock Excal and MK-1 Braton and was called hacker. Don't know what was worse - being a hacker or p2winner. :D Ugh, I've seen that before. I remember a friend and I were playing in conclave and we both went with an uncolored stock Excal and all MK-1 weapons (Paris, Kunai, and Bo for him and Strun, Furis, and Furax for me). I'd get in close and harass/distract players while my friend sniped them from a distance. So many of the newer/unskilled players were calling us hackers for that and threatened to report us both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volinus7 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 No one pays No one wins. Plats in tradechat are not free or magically appear out of nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Silverback73 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 5 hours ago, (PS4)Spider_Enigma said: With Octavia's music packs being be behind a pay wall, on top of other changes to resource drop rates and the need for kuva, do you guys think warframes mindset has changed to pay to win? No. It is "Pay to progress faster" ($ vs Timesink) and it is "Pay to experience the extras DE offers" but they have been careful to address the growing demands of the game as it evolves through it's lifecycle by making sure it is NOT pay to win as much as they realistically can. Octavia's Bonus accessories are non-essential products they SHOULD charge for and Rivens are not an essential part of game balance. The flip side of your thinking is that DE has a responsibility to keep the game profitable for investors, employees, and long term players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabMan95 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 (edited) At this moment right now, warframe is arguably at the lowest moment of "pay to win" it ever was (i never considered it to be, but things lately are so much easier to get than before). Rivens, even if they're thousands of plat (like they were on release for the t1 weapons), aren't necessary. You can still have an incredibly OP weapon without it. Platinum isn't hard to get: people are paying more for prime junk now because of tennocon baro, people are paying less for prime sets (even the vaulted ones: yesterday i paid 450 for an ember prime bp) so getting them is easier, and the weapons DE made that aren't prime are awesome (the pandero is basically just slightly worse lex prime, atterax is insane as a mr2 req, and even the burston and braton prime are easily farmed or traded for). You want to get things? Actually play the game Edited June 8, 2017 by LabMan95 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)ArnnFrost Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)robotwars7 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 5 hours ago, (PS4)Spider_Enigma said: With Octavia's music packs being be behind a pay wall, on top of other changes to resource drop rates and the need for kuva, do you guys think warframes mindset has changed to pay to win? I'm not sure you understand what the actual definition of P2W is. P2W is where Microtransactions actually put you AHEAD of others who don't pay to obtain better, game-changing gear. if DE sold a crazy new Grineer Rifle for example, that was better than every other rifle in the game, THAT would be pay to win, because everyone who buys the Rifle would have a far better weapon than those who don't. Octavia's music packs actually don't matter outside of your musical preference because the damage of her abilities is determined by BPM: modding for max BPM gives you the most damage regardless of which instruments you use. the instrument packs aren't essential, like at all; they're purely cosmetic for people who want a different sound when using their abilities. I won't say that Kuva is fine as it is, because it's not, but you can't buy Kuva, and even if you could, it wouldn't really give you an advantage over anyone else because Riven Stats are determined by RNG; you'd have more of a CHANCE at better stats, because you have more Kuva to work with but that doesn't mean you're guaranteed a good roll. Warframe is NOT P2W; it's "Pay to get the same things faster" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypernaut1 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Either way, you can trade in game items to get the premium currency.... So no. Not even for Rivens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Chroma_Prime Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Warframe is pay to skip not to win, all general thinks like wf parts etc you can farm or you can skip and buy it, bonuses like the sounds for ovctavia are no relevant things of the frame or important for quests Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Chroma_Prime Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Warframe is pay to skip not to win, all general thinks like wf parts etc you can farm or you can skip and buy it, bonuses like the sounds for ovctavia are no relevant things of the frame or important for quests Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExaltedHysteria Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Considering I've played quite a few free to play games, I can safely say in my opinion Warframe is the farthest from pay to win than any other free to play game I've played that I can think of tbh - at most, it's a pay-to-bypass-grind if anything. and as someone who's had to farm for Vauban prime, the Kuva farming is laughable to me, it takes so little effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliburxZero Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 4 hours ago, Ksaero said: Anyways, it's not like any Riven makes a weapon 100 times better? We somehow played before their introduction, right? Game's difficulty (trivial) hasn't changed at all. Pay to win talks about paying to get in-game advantages, however small. And I believe (aka in MY opinion) that its not realistic to enjoy said power without paying. Also, this is a game about getting loot. And some of the best loot in the game (rivens) is pretty hard to enjoy in its present state. Until rivens are improved in accessibility in a meaningful way to obtain, or removed entirely this is my opinion and view of the game at the moment. Anyways, its not like I expect you to not come back to be sassy at me just because you don't like my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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