LSG501 Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 8 hours ago, Aranaevens said: DE gains nothing with Riven sales between players. There is not plat tax, if you trade 1000 plat to another player he has 1000 plat. The only things players lose when trading is credits, which is easy to farm to say the least. Some players will buy plats to buy a Riven to another player and DE will gain money, but in the long run, the amount of plat on the market just grows and it's bad for them, they indeed need things to sink player platinum, that's what are the cash grabs, Riven ain't one. But you can't pay DE to have a good Riven to win over somone else. You pay a player for that. If DE put a system with plat trading for rerolling the weapon you may then argue it's a shameful cash grab. The only reason DE did nothing about Rivens it's because it's the only time sink endgame players pay attention to, if it was easy to get a good riven on the weapons you like you woudn't have much to do. And where does the original plat come from for these riven purchases, it doesn't just come out of thin air does it..... while yes we can trade for plat the plat first needs to be purchased by someone, if there isn't a cycle of people buying plat there wouldn't be any plat to trade with. Not to mention riven slots cost plat.... And you could argue the time it takes to do a sortie isn't really that much time so it's not a time sink by any major stretch.... the issue is rng not being balanced according to the description, a common drop should drop more often than a rare or uncommon drop yet it doesn't.... it's not just about getting rivens for the weapons we like to use (although it would be nice...) there's also the issue with actually getting ANY riven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aranaevens Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 33 minutes ago, LSG501 said: And where does the original plat come from for these riven purchases, it doesn't just come out of thin air does it..... while yes we can trade for plat the plat first needs to be purchased by someone, if there isn't a cycle of people buying plat there wouldn't be any plat to trade with. Not to mention riven slots cost plat.... And you could argue the time it takes to do a sortie isn't really that much time so it's not a time sink by any major stretch.... the issue is rng not being balanced according to the description, a common drop should drop more often than a rare or uncommon drop yet it doesn't.... it's not just about getting rivens for the weapons we like to use (although it would be nice...) there's also the issue with actually getting ANY riven. In a vacuum a 1000 plat purchase from a single player could buy an infinity of Rivens. Player A purchases 1000 plat, he buys a Riven own by player B for 1000 plat, Player B buys a Riven to Player C and so on. So no, the Rivens by themselves doesn't give money to DE. In our case, if A buys to B, B to C and then C buys something from the shop for plat, the plat purchase of player A effectively bought what C wanted, and that's what gave DE money because those 1000 plat don't exist on the market anymore and a player will need to buy some more. That's like when you buy a gift card in a store. The store gained money as soon as you buy the gift card, you can trade that card to someone, like you trade that gift card for example to plat in game (that's forbidden, I know, just an example), you can't say that platinum made money for the store even if you traded it. The time sink I was talking about was Kuva Farming to get a good Riven, not so much the acquisition of Rivens, since those aren't farmable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deshiel Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 It truly is becoming Pay2Win. I bought this sassy tennogen syandana and it buffed my skills psychologicaly so hard that I was unstoppable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSG501 Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 54 minutes ago, Aranaevens said: a player will need to buy some more. You just proved my point....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aranaevens Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 17 minutes ago, LSG501 said: You just proved my point....... No. You can't take words out of the sentence. The only reason in my example the player need to buy some more is because he bought from the shop, what exactly it has to do with Riven ? Please read the entire paragraph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSG501 Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Aranaevens said: No. You can't take words out of the sentence. The only reason in my example the player need to buy some more is because he bought from the shop, what exactly it has to do with Riven ? Please read the entire paragraph. If you can't see how DE's system works it's not my fault.... it's at very fundamental levels a pyramid scheme, with DE being the ones that are making the profit Edited June 11, 2017 by LSG501 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedDragonofRa Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 On 6/7/2017 at 10:17 PM, (PS4)Spider_Enigma said: With Octavia's music packs being be behind a pay wall, on top of other changes to resource drop rates and the need for kuva, do you guys think warframes mindset has changed to pay to win? i always saw warframe as pay to skip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)AllOrNothinDays Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 I don't think it's pay to win, it's pay for convenience but things like how you have to acquire saryn and excalibur now intentionally make it so you're encouraged more and more inclined to just to buy things to bypass silly levels of grind. 100% honest, if I came into this game late with some of these changes, I would have stopped playing if I needed to grind for excalibur the way you have to now. Same goes for Saryn. It's one thing to kill a boss repeatedly and deal with rng that way, another to have that kind of grind on top of rng tied together. Whatever you think of relics, primes are easier to acquire now and with that step forward, they took a huge step back with acquiring some of the basic frames/weapons that is a complete turn off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valiant Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 3 hours ago, Deshiel said: I bought this sassy tennogen syandana and it buffed my skills psychologicaly so hard that I was unstoppable I want some of whatever you're on please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)AliZarar13 Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 (edited) In a pay to win game you HAVE TO pay to actually be strong, in the case of warframe which is imo the only f2p game out there, its only pay to look good, you can trade for plat, sure the plat comes into the system by SOMEONE buying the plat, but that someone dosent have to be you, its the person who bought it's choice to buy it because it was more convenient for him to buy rather than grind stuff In all honesty, LSG01's posts are identical to an old womans nagging and complaining "ohhh.....why dont i get plat for free, WHY DE WHY" seems like what your saying Edited June 11, 2017 by (PS4)AliZarar13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TennoPain Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 Its PVE based game but pvp yes it can be considered to be pay to win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orblit Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 Since fashion frame is the true endgame. I guess you could say it is "pay2win" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)lhbuch Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 You cant directly become stronger in WF by paying BUT you make the road much faster. I spent more than a year to get to level 16 because I played my way to that level. I farmed etc... Took me another 2 years to get to 23. Never rushed it. If I found a weapon that I would like, I invested in it. Forma etc... Spent lots of times farming for mods and perfecting builds. You can do it in 2 months if you buy the primes, weapons etc... Theres a bunch of high MR players who dont even understand game mechanics, dont have lots of weapons with forma etc... It is also not clear what is to win in warframe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonnehart Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 Trying to remember which Youtube it was I saw this, but... You can use Platinum to buy the best, coolest looking warframes, weapons, and accessories. However, the moment you show up on the battlefield everyone will know you spent money to win when you display your lack of skill during a mission. Reminds me of "ebabies" in Everquest. I ended up in a party with a high level warrior... who had no idea what an attack button was... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurea_Hiigara Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 4 hours ago, TennoPain said: Its PVE based game but pvp yes it can be considered to be pay to win How? Is there a single PVP mod, weapon, frame or anything you can ONLY get by buying it from DE? If you can farm something, and can do something in a reasonable timeframe (ie., solo-farming Hema research without boosters isn't reasonable), then it's not P2W - at worst it's Pay For Convenience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaotyke Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 How is this thread still going?! 37 minutes ago, Aurea_Hiigara said: How? Is there a single PVP mod, weapon, frame or anything you can ONLY get by buying it from DE? If you can farm something, and can do something in a reasonable timeframe (ie., solo-farming Hema research without boosters isn't reasonable), then it's not P2W - at worst it's Pay For Convenience. Aurea, take note on who you replied to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurrealEdge Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 How has this thread survived this long? It was the middle of the night when I made my comments, and I am, days later, seeing some of the same arguments that essentially have been recycled from the first couple of pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltimateGrr Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 3 hours ago, SurrealEdge said: How has this thread survived this long? It was the middle of the night when I made my comments, and I am, days later, seeing some of the same arguments that essentially have been recycled from the first couple of pages. Welcome to the internet. On the other hand, threads like these are great for playing drinking games. Just take a shot when ever you see the cycle restart, and you'll need a new liver by page 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurrealEdge Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, UltimateGrr said: Welcome to the internet. On the other hand, threads like these are great for playing drinking games. Just take a shot when ever you see the cycle restart, and you'll need a new liver by page 3. If a drinking game was ever made of this particular board, we'd all be dead with the number of Excal Prime threads. Edited June 12, 2017 by SurrealEdge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamma745 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 11 minutes ago, SurrealEdge said: If a drinking game was ever made of this particular board, we'd all be dead with the number of Excal Prime threads. Actually, which one is higher: Excal prime thread or Vote-kick thread? I guess if we do both, we'll be on the fast track to the grave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurrealEdge Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 7 minutes ago, Gamma745 said: Actually, which one is higher: Excal prime thread or Vote-kick thread? I guess if we do both, we'll be on the fast track to the grave. Can't forget the auction house, and buff Ash threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamma745 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 1 minute ago, SurrealEdge said: Can't forget the auction house, and buff Ash threads. Oh yeah, auction house. Almost forget about that. Buff Ash thread? Here I thought I already wasted too much time in the forum, yet I hardly noticed this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurrealEdge Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 7 minutes ago, Gamma745 said: Oh yeah, auction house. Almost forget about that. Buff Ash thread? Here I thought I already wasted too much time in the forum, yet I hardly noticed this. The Ash threads have died down, but they pop up once in a while. No one can forget that Bladestorm was changed that it actually requires playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YUNoJump Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 4 hours ago, Gamma745 said: Actually, which one is higher: Excal prime thread or Vote-kick thread? I guess if we do both, we'll be on the fast track to the grave. Don't forget the classic "DE is destroying the game I hate them so much, citation: the very concept of nerfs" threads that arise every now and then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamma745 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 5 minutes ago, YUNoJump said: Don't forget the classic "DE is destroying the game I hate them so much, citation: the very concept of nerfs" threads that arise every now and then. Well, I can understand that people don't like it when their favorite weapon or gear is nerfed. But yeah, saying the game is destroyed just because one stuff gets nerfed is just being over-dramatic. Still doesn't change the massive number of the threads that popped up each time it happens, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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