Do you run Corrosive Projection?

[DatDarkOne]

18 minutes ago, uAir said:

So you ran a bunch of pub games with Gas and decided it was the greatest?
Do you know anything about the scientific method?

Are you just playing like you can't read and comprehend?  I hope that you are just joking.  

You are assuming that I just tested, tried, or used one weapon.  Then you try to use this simplified idea you have to try to discredit.  It's like you didn't read anything and only picked parts and assumed the rest.  Is this because I didn't put the number of weapons or mods I used?  Here's a little help for you.  Go in-game and look at my profile.  Then you can just look at any weapon there with more than 1% usage and there you go.  Those are the weapons I used. 

18 minutes ago, uAir said:

Do you just not like looking at yourself in the mirror and consider for a moment that the way you've been doing things is not the best way to do things?

And why can't you see the same thing.  No one here said that CP or corrosive was bad at all.  We only stated that it wasn't needed no where near as much as you've been saying it is.  

6 minutes ago, uAir said:

He's the one that tested this for over sizeable time period and he took the damage numbers and the first place damage output into pretty considerable regard.

But yet you keep magically overlooking that nothing is faster than a Stealth Finisher kill or that Gas damage stacks multiple while in stealth as well as doing multiple ticks of damage.

It's not a matter of them following me, but more of you come off as someone who hasn't experienced enough of the game while also ignoring things that you should already know by now..  

Edited July 21, 2017 by DatDarkOne

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

On 7/19/2017 at 2:20 PM, Tesseract7777 said:

Oh I know you could, but why would you? 

I don't see the point in getting into a long discussion with Lycan at this point about it, but he is suggesting that I should bring Shield Disruption to help bad unprepared players who don't bring toxin damage, I don't even know where to start on that it makes so little sense. 

I mean for one thing it's common knowledge to bring toxin damage against shields. For the other if your teammates are so unprepared that they don't know that simple fact, bringing shield disruption isn't going to be much of any help even if they did bring three more and two coactions, because let's face it, if they are too inexperienced to know that toxin damage or gas procs go through shields, they are too inexperienced for their weapons to do much of anything shields or not. 

There are way more helpful auras one can bring against corpus if they are trying to help weak, possibly not adequately modded teammates get a leg up. 

I still don't know why we can't get it to 100% without two Coaction Drifts.
 

 

[uAir]

7 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Are you just playing like you can't read and comprehend?  I hope that you are just joking.  

You are assuming that I just tested, tried, or used one weapon.  Then you try to use this simplified idea you have to try to discredit.  It's like you didn't read anything and only picked parts and assumed the rest.  Is this because I didn't put the number of weapons or mods I used?  Here's a little help for you.  Go in-game and look at my profile.  Then you can just look at any weapon there with more than 1% usage and there you go.  Those are the weapons I used. 

And why can't you see the same thing.  No one here said that CP or corrosive was bad at all.  We only stated that it wasn't needed no where near as much as you've been saying it is.  

I asked you to tell me your testing methodology and your reasoning and conclusion.
Any misunderstanding on my part is due to your lackluster report.

I can only conclude from your lack of details that:
-You are lying and you never tested things in the first place, because of this you are worried you will say something that is obviously incorrect that I can prove you are wrong about conclusively with a simple video.
-You really never did any "testing" and you're just making something up.
-You know you are in fact incorrect anyway in your assumption and revealing anything more would show you are lying.

Did you finish recreating my test yet?

========

My stance isn't that Corrosive Projection is good. My perspective is that CP is the best and if we simply used the best the community as a whole would benefit so much more.

Also, do you now acknowledge and realize that your testing was bad? And that your only conclusion should be that no conclusion can be made with the testing you have done?

Edited July 21, 2017 by uAir

[NekroArts]

6 minutes ago, uAir said:

He's the one that tested this for over sizeable time period and he took the damage numbers and the first place damage output into pretty considerable regard.

Then leave him be with his reasoning. I'm not saying he's right or wrong, I'm saying if it convinces him let him do it. If you still want to try to convince him let the game take that job for you. Let the game give him a slap in the face telling him "Hey, that won't work here; use the optimal approach" . 

[Gamma745]

17 minutes ago, uAir said:

And that's the community I have to contend with. I don't know how to get through to you guys. It's like, I can lay out the facts in bullet point and construct tests after test and show you and even ask you all to go to test it for yourselves but you all would rather just trust people like this Dark guy. And why? Because I'm suggesting something you don't initially agree with while he's saying something that you identify with more so you are more apt to agree with him? Really, what is it? Do you just not like looking at yourself in the mirror and consider for a moment that the way you've been doing things is not the best way to do things?

Because this is a game and not a job. We play games to have fun, to do weird stuff. You can play a game the "optimal" way, but it's hardly the ONLY way. When we want to goof off and perhaps let the enemies live a little longer so we can do weird stuff with them, what's wrong with that? When we just want to zip past enemies so fast without killing them, is that wrong?

Again, Fun =/= efficiency. You might see it that way, but not everyone share the exact same view. That is what makes us individuals.

When you said it's "detrimental to the team", you practically signed up for it when you joined a RANDOM match. Like I said, not everyone enjoy the game the same way. You asked every single person on this game to follow YOUR idea. In a Random match, you're supposed to adapt, to try to change with each other, not asking everyone to follow YOUR individual wishes.

 

The Lotus have already said this in the very beginning of the game, "Seek like-minded individuals". You refused to do that, and yet asked everyone to bow down to you. Can you see why we disagree with you?

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

23 minutes ago, uAir said:

He's the one that tested this for over sizeable time period and he took the damage numbers and the first place damage output into pretty considerable regard.

I think you're taking him far too literally, it's his opinion, not a cold hard fact. 

Stop trying to force your opinion on what's better down someone's throat. Let people use what they want to use. 

So what if CP is the best choice overall? We have over sixty weapons in this game and only about ten of them are technically the best in their class. With your logic, shouldn't everyone just use the Tigris Prime because it's the strongest weapon in the game right now, and nothing else, all for the sake of the Meta?

Diversity is what let's Warframe thrive. If you want to stick to Meta only strategies and have a community follow it to a T or get bashed horribly, go play League of Legends.

Edited July 21, 2017 by (XB1)Graysmog

[DatDarkOne]

10 minutes ago, uAir said:

I asked you to tell me your testing methodology and your reasoning and conclusion.
Any misunderstanding on my part is due to your lackluster report.

I can only conclude from your lack of details that:
-You are lying and you never tested things in the first place, because of this you are worried you will say something that is obviously incorrect that I can prove you are wrong about conclusively with a simple video.
-You really never did any "testing" and you're just making something up.
-You know you are in fact incorrect anyway in your assumption and revealing anything more would show you are lying.

Did you finish recreating my test yet?

Wow.  I just don't know who you seem to think you are.  You are not my teacher.  Last one of those I had over 20 years ago.  Then you do this post to call me a liar because I didn't make a video for your simple mind to understand.   LOL  You, who failed a spy mission so bad that it changed to exterminate and didn't know why as a MR 23 player.  You have more to prove to me than the other way around.    

Edited July 21, 2017 by DatDarkOne

[uAir]

6 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Wow.  I just don't know you seem to think you are.  You are not my teacher.  Last one of those I had over 20 years ago.  Then you do this post to call me a liar because I didn't make a video for your simple mind to understand.   LOL  You, who failed a spy mission so bad that it changed to exterminate and didn't know why as a MR 23 player.  You have more to prove to me than the other way around.    

What do you want me to prove?
While we're at it, I want you to prove a few things to me as well. Care to exchange contact information and meet up in game so the proving can begin?
IGN: uAir
I should be online for the next hour or two.

And you haven't had a teacher for 20 years? So for 20 years you've essentially thought of yourself as the end of all questions in your life and I'm the first in 20 years to question your decisions so you're not liking it? Sounds real mature for a person 20 years out of school.

I know why the mission turned to an exterminate mission. For the ones clamoring about fun, yeah, we were all Lokis messing around in a spy mission and it turned into an exterminate mission with relatively high level Grineer. None of us were geared with Corrosive/CP and it was a somewhat grueling battle through. But again, why were we messing around? Because it was a spy mission without the requirement to kill anything, we were all MR 21+, and were leveling things other than our preferred loadouts.

Also, don't evade the question. Do you still believe your test of Gas proc is the conclusive test to prove that Gas is the best proc for all the factions? Yes or no?

Edited July 21, 2017 by uAir

[Tesseract7777]

I think this thread has gone complete off the rails and should probably be locked. 

[Gamma745]

Just now, Tesseract7777 said:

I think this thread has gone complete off the rails and should probably be locked. 

Agreed. This thread has overstayed its welcome.

[failedtodiet]

Just a friendly reminder: The game have an ignore function, let it be useful. @uAir You can use that to ignore whoever not using CP and never see that selfish person in your squad again.

And forums also have ignore function if anyone needs it.

[Tesseract7777]

Form your own groups and ask everyone to bring CP. 

I just solved your problem. No need to thank me. 

The thread can end now. 

[aligatorno]

The thing with using the most optimal something is that it promotes lack of diversity. Why even stop at all of us using only CP? Why not go all the way in and all use CP + Atterax + Maiming  Strike + Naramon Shadow Step + Volt/Valkyr/Harrow for that bonus attack speed. It would greatly benefit the team in that nothing would be able to stop us and we could go on and stay at lvl 9999 enemies until the end of time. 

[(PSN)theelix]

Spoiler

34 minutes ago, uAir said:

-snip- 

Then lets summarize shall we. 

No one who actually knows numbers has argued that, in a group, Corrosive Projection wouldn't be more useful than most anything they could run as the levels approach high end.

Initially, you were introduced with those who play in <4 cells arguing that in a frame by frame basis Corrosive Projection wasn't as worth while. Thus, after you realized you weren't getting the responses you wanted, because not everyone runs in groups of full cells, or attempts to argue with randoms over the age old topic: 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/37lxup/i_kinda_hate_corrosive_projection_a_rant_about/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/67gw55/i_made_a_video_about_the_value_of_corrosive/

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/444324-how-about-we-nerf-corrosive-projection/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/4ji8ny/psa_math_on_why_a_4th_corrosive_projection_is_a/

 

And you baited out your true intents for this thread:

 

On 7/17/2017 at 2:24 AM, uAir said:

What are you all using instead of CP?
And what is your reasoning for using something else in place of CP?

If everyone was using CP instead we could stop using Corrosive procs and instead start using Viral procs which would greatly increase our clear speeds.
You're all claiming we have great status weapons now. Well, if you were using CP you could use Viral. Your slash procs that cut through armor and hit their HP directly? If they have Viral proc on your slash procs would kill them that much more quickly. Your normal damage would kill them in half the time, more in fact because you don't have to waste your first attacks or waste your time using abilities to strip armor. They'd already have no armor and all of your attacks would be 100% effective. And they'd be at 50% hp all of the time.

Collectively we could make the game so much easier for us. Why are so many of you choosing to actively make things more difficult for everyone, including yourselves?

Also, for the users of Growing Power over all other mods. Please show me your setup and explain why Growing Power is so much better for your build than something else.

 

You were exposed to the problem that the argument isn't as you've said: 

On 7/17/2017 at 11:10 AM, uAir said:

...Because their exists a mentality that CP is not needed and you can throw whatever you want in there it forces ALL of us to use Corrosive procs which is much more inefficient than if everyone just ran CP in the first place and we could run different weapons and/or mod our weapons to be more effective than with Corrosive procs...

...You all think and you all say Corrosive Projection isn't needed 

But rather that actual problem is that: 

On 7/17/2017 at 1:26 AM, MadHatHacker said:

... or in a group where the other three people have CP...

On 7/16/2017 at 11:11 PM, Silvus-Sol said:

...or sometimes in pre-made squads going for long runs...

people can't rely on other people in the coin-toss that is matchmaking to run the most optimal everything, since among the gap in inventory, game knowledge, and mechanical skill, some people play this game only to have fun which is an entirely subjective emotion. Winning faster  =/= more fun for everyone. Optimizing every weapon, warframe, cell to look something like a Trinity Prime, Nova Prime, Nekros Prime and Valkyr Prime with Tigris Prime, Euphona Prime, and Zenistar =/= more fun for everyone. The priority that you need everything in this game before you can start having fun is the reverse of someone else. "Fashionframe" isn't just a joke, but the aspiration that this is a game for casual players to have fun in the sense of either self fulfillment in overcoming challenges, or just looking cool, but I digress. 

You replied to an observation and thus confirmed: 

On 7/18/2017 at 4:38 PM, aligatorno said:

That is one of the most silly, selfish and out right narcissistic statements I`ve heard on this forum since I activate here. Please don't think that your opinion, preferences or needs are the only ones that matter or that they are applicable to the whole population. Reality check, they are not. 

You are certainly not the only person in this community. Getting rid of armor scaling through the combined efforts of using Corrosive Projection is wonderful idea. One could say, it's an Utopian fantasy. 

Here's reality: The content that you are designed to play is perfectly completable without the use of Corrosive Projection. Above level 100, which is the only true place Corrosive Projection's effects matter as the time saved turns from seconds into minutes and your effectiveness skyrockets, Corrosive Projection does not bring the same results as having a slight extra amount of energy to boost something like Chromatic Blade over the edge of the 180% Power Strength threshold so that you can quit caring about how much armor they have because it hardly matters anymore. You can focus on the most reliable person in the game -- yourself -- and do your best to carry the people who decided to play this game as a leisure activity, and was at work when Corrosive Projection hit alerts, and didn't get it from the Silver Grove, and didn't have the platinum nor wanted to waste the money buying platinum to buy Corrosive Projection.

 

What you need to understand is that not everyone cares as much as you. What you're appealing here might as well be human nature; everyone needs to be optimal, and do the game optimal, and that's the only way anyone should play or else you're just making it uselessly harder on everyone else you play with. It's simply not going to happen, and you becoming hostile and having  a gladiatorial simulacrum test isn't going to change anything, even if you managed to do it with every single person in this gaming community. 

To think someone who looks in terms of effectiveness can't comprehend that the world inside this video game is filled with people who look at the world around each of them at different orientation is just baffling. Trying to break their neck until they see it in your orientation doesn't work, kind of like what I'm trying to do with you right now. 

In conclusion, if you don't understand any of that, then you're one step closer to understanding why not even three people in a row of random matchmaking give a single Ammo Drum about your Corrosive Projection.

[Tesseract7777]

Very well said. 

I think people also forget that the majority of games, and how many of us play, are pickup games. There is a sort of prisoners dilemma in pick up games, even in something like an augmented armor sortie. Even those who are trying to play optimally and know the benefits, often will bring a different way to strip armor, or another way around it entirely, because they just don't know what other 3 people might load into the squad. You can shout at people to "play optimal" all day, but it's all just farting into the wind. The vast majority of players won't hear a plea to run CP even in augmented armor sorties, and if they did hear, many would do things there own way regardless. Which means unless someone is organizing their own game, why not bring almost anything else?

Edited July 21, 2017 by Tesseract7777

[blackheartstar_pc]

7 hours ago, Gamma745 said:

Because this is a game and not a job. We play games to have fun

Again this. Playing efficiently feels like work and is very restrictive. I'm here to have fun. The other angle of this that removes fun from uAirs argument is his encouragement of speeding up the gameplay. That mindset is why it's optimal fun to play exterminates, captures, and rescues solo. As playing in a group your going to get a rusher/ruiner.

[Nirrel]

31 minutes ago, blackheartstar_pc said:

Again this. Playing efficiently feels like work and is very restrictive. I'm here to have fun. The other angle of this that removes fun from uAirs argument is his encouragement of speeding up the gameplay. That mindset is why it's optimal fun to play exterminates, captures, and rescues solo. As playing in a group your going to get a rusher/ruiner.

While I see what you are saying, I cannot really agree with it. You see it's not really about to make the mission shorter. If DE introduce interesting enemies or more difficult objectives than it's fun to stay longer. Having to shoot the same mob for half an hour because of the insane and stupid armour scaling in this game when I could have get rid of it way sooner it is not fun IMO.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Nirrel

[Mudfam]

In this game we kill stuff. We have many damage types with huge benefits and great status effects that offer things like AoE damage and CC. We can build weapons in many interesting ways, and we have abilities that do all sorts of specific types damage.

CP makes a huge number of powerful weapon builds and abilities viable, extremely effective in fact.

Without CP you must use corrosive to strip armour before you can do damage to specific targets, which in itself takes time. You can also rely on mostly inconsistent slash procs to still deal greatly reduced damage. Most abilities and other sources of damage are completely useless.

In short, I can't imagine any good reason why you'd opt for the latter and not use CP. Except in some extremely niche cases, I don't see any use for any other auras, they do very little or nothing. CP increases all your damage, often by ~100 times, without any extra work. It enables virtually endless builds and play styles, opens up countless new powerful options and makes literally everything much more efficient and effective.

[aligatorno]

12 minutes ago, Mudfam said:

It enables virtually endless builds and play styles, opens up countless new powerful options and makes literally everything much more efficient and effective.

Quite the contrary. It encourages strict builds for Viral , Slash and Fire. So Corrosive, Radiation and Blast are out of the picture since they won't be  giving us optimal damage. What would be the point for modding for anything else if you won't be getting damage bonus? 

You won't need to change your build at all no matter what faction you`ll be fighting. How's this endless builds? 

Edited July 21, 2017 by aligatorno

[GLTHX]

This thread just proves DE should remove this aura from the game completely and slightly nerf enemies' armor values to compensate.

Why? Because it divides community - one group demands others to run this one specific aura, the second group can actually play the game adapt, by using Slash, Gas or Corrosive procs or using pure Toxin or finisher damage.

As for OP and others who side with him - you call others selfish for not using CP, but what are you if not selfish, telling others to change their, most of the time good and perfectly viable, builds so you can have fun? Here's the truth - you can easily kill Sortie - level enemies without any CP and with any frame, you only need one weapon with good build to do the job. And if you want to go endless, there's recruiting and clan chat.

I suggest you grow up and stop acting like a spoiled brat who had his toy taken before posting any more toxic, hypocritical bulls**t.

[Mudfam]

26 minutes ago, aligatorno said:

Quite the contrary. It encourages strict builds for Viral , Slash and Fire. So Corrosive, Radiation and Blast are out of the picture since they won't be  giving us optimal damage. What would be the point for modding for anything else if you won't be getting damage bonus? 

You won't need to change your build at all no matter what faction you`ll be fighting. How's this endless builds? 

What,,?!?

Radiation and blast are vastly more effective when using CP, and you can use them for their great CC and specific enemy damage bonuses. Corrosive is the best damage type against some of the absolute toughest enemies even without its armour stripping porperties.

Viral is great damage wise against certain enemies, but there's other great damage types with ridiculously powerful status effects. Slash?! If anything slash becomes far, far less important, and it's only available on a limited number of weapons.

CP gives you many more options, most of which are equally viable for different reasons. Instead of just using high proc rate weapons with corrosive we can viably use the other 90% of weapons with their unique qualities, and the other 12 damage types. I'm also not just talking about weapons here, but a great many warframe abilities that become useless unless you're running CP.

[rand0mname]

To OP: What is your favorite loadout? Your dream team? Which missions you run? For how long you stay?

To all who say that 4 CP is a must on Augmented Armor, I assume you noticed that CP aura effects in the sorties with this modifier are halved? So you still have to deal with armor?

To anyone who actually understands how Coaction Drift works: is it possible to strip armor in Sortie with Augmented Armor completely if all 4 players will use it with CP? I think not, but never been able to test it.

14 minutes ago, GLTHX said:

This thread just proves DE should remove this aura from the game completely and slightly nerf enemies' armor values to compensate.

Why? Because it divides community - one group demands others to run this one specific aura, the second group can actually play the game adapt, by using Slash, Gas or Corrosive procs or using pure Toxin or finisher damage.

As for OP and others who side with him - you call others selfish for not using CP, but what are you if not selfish, telling others to change their, most of the time good and perfectly viable, builds so you can have fun? Here's the truth - you can easily kill Sortie - level enemies without any CP and with any frame, you only need one weapon with good build to do the job. And if you want to go endless, there's recruiting and clan chat.

I suggest you grow up and stop acting like a spoiled brat who had his toy taken before posting any more toxic, hypocritical bulls**t.

This is a conversation about how awesome corrosive and viral are, so toxic is expected ;) *slaps Toxin Resistance on

As for the community divide - I am sure we will find something to argue about in any case. Efficiency&Speed vs Fun&Diversity debate will never end.

[aligatorno]

20 minutes ago, Mudfam said:

What,,?!?

Radiation and blast are vastly more effective when using CP, and you can use them for their great CC and specific enemy damage bonuses. Corrosive is the best damage type against some of the absolute toughest enemies even without its armour stripping porperties.

Viral is great damage wise against certain enemies, but there's other great damage types with ridiculously powerful status effects. Slash?! If anything slash becomes far, far less important, and it's only available on a limited number of weapons.

CP gives you many more options, most of which are equally viable for different reasons. Instead of just using high proc rate weapons with corrosive we can viably use the other 90% of weapons with their unique qualities, and the other 12 damage types. I'm also not just talking about weapons here, but a great many warframe abilities that become useless unless you're running CP.

This is not true. Once you strip enemies of their armor, they will no longer get bonus damage from their respective weakness since you convert them fully to Flesh. Grineer's Cloned Flesh only takes bonus damage from Viral 75%, Heat 25% and Slash 25%, Corrosive and Radiation will no longer give their 75% bonus to Ferrite, respectively Ally armored enemies once you strip off their armor. I tested this just to be sure. Corrosive and Radiation both did 126 damage both on a corrupted Heavy Bombard and a Corrupted Heavy Gunner with a Stradavar only using two dual 60% status mods. Both have different armors, so the damage should be different, but it isnt. Only adding Viral the damage increased. 

So if you want to play optimally, how you said in your other post, adding anything other than Viral, Fire and Slash would go against what you preach.  

Edited July 21, 2017 by aligatorno

[Mudfam]

28 minutes ago, aligatorno said:

This is not true. Once you strip enemies of their armor, they will no longer get bonus damage from their respective weakness since you convert them fully to Flesh. Grineer's Cloned Flesh only takes bonus damage from Viral 75%, Heat 25% and Slash 25%, Corrosive and Radiation will no longer give their 75% bonus to Ferrite, respectively Ally armored enemies once you strip off their armor. I tested this just to be sure. Corrosive and Radiation do did 126 damage both on a corrupted Heavy Bombard and a Corrupted Heavy Gunner. Both have different armors, so the damage should be different, but it isnt. Only adding Viral the damage increased. 

So if you want to play optimally, how you said in your other post, adding anything other than Viral, Fire and Slash would go against what you preach.  

I'm well aware of this. I certainly didn't assume you were talking about strictly the Grineer faction, especiall as you included "You won't need to change your build at all no matter what faction you`ll be fighting" in your post. Corrosive remains the overall most effective damage type against infested, doing +75% damage to its toughest and most dangerous enemies while having no weaknesses.

The damage types you list are basically just how to achieve the highest single target damage against grineer, something I don't even value, especially since when running CP I can do plenty of damage anyway.

I'll take gas becuase of its great additional AoE damage, I'll take elec for its AoE damage and CC, I'll take radiation or blast for their CC, I'll use corrosive to mow down heavy infested without having to rely on status, I'll use toxin to bypass shields. I'll use different damage types based on the weapon's own damage types and the consistency of proccing. I'll use diffferent elemental combos depending on what mods I have room for or need for status, what rivens I have, or what my frame is able to do and what synergies there are. It's silly to argue that there's a few select damage types that trump all others, most damage types have extremely good and often circumstantial applications that go beyond single target DPS vs grineer.

Oh yeah, I'll also use my warframe powers

Ultimately though, I don't understand your overall argument. We need to handicap ourselves with a requirement to strip armour, forcing us to use corrosive procs? Why? What merit does this have? Please explain because I utterly fail to see even the slightest little bit of benefit to this.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Mudfam

[Yaerion]

This has to end, Tenno.

This ship has corroded way too much, passed through enough hardships.

It is time for me to stop its painful wandering.

Appease your minds, Stricken Dreamers... this is not the one that turned you into what you are.

Come back to your dreams... Prepare a better future.

Umbra is coming.

Find the path. Stand united.

 

Lights... No.. More...

Alone... ?

No. They are here. Watching us...

... Shadows.