Conclave and Plains of Eidolon?

[TheJadrimian]

A little while ago, it occurred to me how interesting it might be to use an expansive area like the Plains for PvP. It'd probably be a very different experience, with periods of quiet tension as players hunt each-other down, and long-range engagements where positioning and cover may come to matter more than just agility.

Then I thought to myself, "But wouldn't that affect balance radically? We see enough sniper rifles already (at least, we did before U21 curb-stomped them), surely they'd become dominant in such big maps, unless, say, equipment had to be found in the environment and-" At this point I stopped, as I realised the idea was slowly becoming "Digital Extremes' Battlegrounds". Archwings instead of Jeeps and warframes instead of bike-helmet-wearing hooligans? Loathe as I would be to suggest DE make a carbon-copy of an existing game, a lot of the elements are there...

--But regardless, I'd be very interested to see something attempted with the Plains and PvP. Perhaps, as an alternative, it could tie into how we're going to be training up and kitting out our space-kids – Operator PvP?

[Witchydragon]

10 hours ago, TheJadrimian said:

Operator PvP?

i would love this so much over the current spazzy random, bunnyhop pvp. warframe mobility is too high, as long as operators can't also phase dash, it would be an actually good pvp mode that's unique.

 

[SevenLetterKWord]

Quote

Operator PvP?

The Archwing of Conclave.
I would very much like to never read "Operator PvP" again.
It is a terrible idea, proposed by those who - in their incapacity to learn the fundamental skills of Conclave - bellyached for a mode with no fundamental skills to learn.

1 hour ago, Witchydragon said:

i would love this so much over the current spazzy random, bunnyhop pvp. warframe mobility is too high, as long as operators can't also phase dash, it would be an actually good pvp mode that's unique.

You know, some people can't tell when you're being ironic.

Edited August 1, 2017 by SevenLetterKWord

[(PSN)XxDarkyanxX]

1 minute ago, SevenLetterKWord said:

The Archwing of Conclave.
I would very much like to never read "Operator PvP" again.
It is a terrible idea, proposed by those who - in their incapacity to learn the fundamental skills of Conclave - bellyached for a mode with no fundamental skills to learn.

You know, some people can't tell when you're being ironic.

We don't know what "Warrior operator" will have to offer once PoE pops up in the game so I wouldn't dismiss it as fast as you did.

[.Zel]

On 7/31/2017 at 6:40 PM, TheJadrimian said:

A little while ago, it occurred to me how interesting it might be to use an expansive area like the Plains for PvP. It'd probably be a very different experience, with periods of quiet tension as players hunt each-other down, and long-range engagements where positioning and cover may come to matter more than just agility.

Then I thought to myself, "But wouldn't that affect balance radically? We see enough sniper rifles already (at least, we did before U21 curb-stomped them), surely they'd become dominant in such big maps, unless, say, equipment had to be found in the environment and-" At this point I stopped, as I realised the idea was slowly becoming "Digital Extremes' Battlegrounds". Archwings instead of Jeeps and warframes instead of bike-helmet-wearing hooligans? Loathe as I would be to suggest DE make a carbon-copy of an existing game, a lot of the elements are there...

--But regardless, I'd be very interested to see something attempted with the Plains and PvP. Perhaps, as an alternative, it could tie into how we're going to be training up and kitting out our space-kids – Operator PvP?

I have actually put a lot of thought into this and yes, it did occur to me that in terms of combat in a very big map, it would be easy to get kill from a distance i.e if you got a shotgun and someone has a sniper rifle 100m away from you then you will die before you get anywhere near the guy or even have a chance to evade.

There might be a lot of words from now on but bear with me.
tl;dr i personally feel open world conclave would be a breathe of fresh air.

[DE]Steve said "For years on out you guys were trapped in a maze and now we open the world up to you". That quote felt applicable in terms of conclave a bit more, since Conclave does not have many maps. PvE and PvP are both a maze, but PvE has more variety of this "Maze" as it has so many tilesets and many different planets. Conclave, maybe has around 11 or 12 maps in total and the gamemode itself was introduced in U16 or before. So, that is not a lot of map for people who regularly play the game mode, especially since FFA doesn't even use some of the maps.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Purpose
As for what exactly will Conclave be in an Open world game mode. Personally i see some player enjoy Conclave more than PvE, so why not make PvP Open world something like a scavenging mode? Where you have to scavenge different resources so you don't need to grind in PvE to get it, maybe it won't be as much as you can get from the mainstream farm nodes or nowhere near it, but allowing some would be a start. This is not just for PoE, but for Open World mode for every planet, what resource that open world will have depends on the planet and sometimes bonus stuff if a crash site is found(lotsa credits)?

Balance
For balancing, the current Conclave balance at its core is really good aside from the energy regen and ult dealing too much damage. So good that i see some PvE players who don't play Conclave actually say "Conclave balance is the type of balance PvE needs, since PvE is full of power creep" and this is from players with over 1k hour and years invested in the game.

But things do get a little tricky in Open World, but it would be fitting if current Conclave balance is presented in Open World PvP, how would one go about doing so? Well to simply put, as i've said it does become unfair if you got a shotgun and you can't kill the sniper aiming for your head over 100m away. 

How do people fight in Conclave currently? You engage a target in a high mobility(or some mobility if .6-.8 mob) combat, and you fight it out. In FFA it's similar in some way, you engage/eliminate and search for the next target but in FFA there are often many players at the same time. Chances of that being the same(many players in one place) in Open World would be low as it will be a really huge area.

 

-----Real Talk-----

So w/e is the maximum length in our current biggest FFA map(Not counting the new earth one as it is too big for few players) will be the "Duel Range" for Open World. What "Duel Range" basically is, is that when you get within this range your weapons will do Conclave damage, but out of this range they will do significantly less in order to prevent getting easy kills from a distance.

Now there might be some controversy involved in whether an Easy kill is good or not but i'll leave that for another day, but for this topic i feel like it is not good as it will mean whoever will spot the enemy first will get the kill, giving the target no chance to fight back. The point of this "Duel Range" would be to make you approach the target and get within appropriate distance for the kill but it will also give the target(if he is aware of your presence) the chance to decide whether he wants to fight or evade.

As for the Stand and fight or evade part, Some might say that Low mobility tanky frames have a disadvantage at evading while High mobility light frames cannot take many shots at close range battle. For that simply, If you've played Conclave then you know Tanky frames and Mobile frames require different playstyle and you chose to accept that play style once you pick your frame to go into battle, If you're a tank and you cannot evade then of course the area will have obstacles around it(good chance for that), so you can use that to shield yourself while you wait for the enemy to get into range. As for Mobile frames, i guess they would need to rely on being sneaky and hitting fast.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Overall Open World PvP would allow the scope for more Tactical play and skill alone would not allow one to dominate. On top of that we all know that Warframe is a loot type game, it is PvE and it's about getting all the items and as such it is appealing to such a crowed. PvP is not well known but it appeals to the competitive player base from that crowed. With Open World PvP i'm sure many more would start playing the game even if they are not into Looting games and then one could really say that Warframe has something to satisfy the need of almost every type of gamer out there.

 

My points on Balancing and Purpose of the Open World PvP is subject to error like anything else, if you've taken the time to read it all then feel free to correct me or offer your own idea on how it could be better. For now i feel like this is what will make Open World PvP enjoyable while keeping the base high mobility combat of Conclave intact.

 

Edited August 2, 2017 by .Zel

[TheJadrimian]

6 hours ago, .Zel said:

why not make PvP Open world something like a scavenging mode?

I do like this principle; tracking and fighting for resource caches would be a nice way to focus the action on particular locations, and it could be an attractive reward if there were a chance at decent resources – such as Kuva, Nitain, possibly Ducats, or whatever new resources will inevitably come with the Plains. I also just rather like the tension that arises from pursuing a solitary objective, uncertain of exactly when and where combat will erupt.

[.Zel]

17 hours ago, TheJadrimian said:

I do like this principle; tracking and fighting for resource caches would be a nice way to focus the action on particular locations, and it could be an attractive reward if there were a chance at decent resources – such as Kuva, Nitain, possibly Ducats, or whatever new resources will inevitably come with the Plains. I also just rather like the tension that arises from pursuing a solitary objective, uncertain of exactly when and where combat will erupt.

Nitain especially, Resources that are very low in drop chance, making them available in PvP PoE would make the game mode be in demand.

Would create a proper balance in the number of players in PvE and PvP imo but not only that, we can finally get the resources without doing the same thing over and over again. We will have the opportunity to explore the vast open world and actually prioritize on locations to get our needed resources.

And making it such would be a great, since there won't be any 1st place or last place, no winner or looser. It's a win win situation for all tbh.

[electricpants007]

Make it MMORPG or something.

[(PSN)equalavor]

I understand all the issues with such an implementation, but here's the thing;

We NEED Plains PvP. 

The entire point of the Conclave as stated by Teshin was to prepare for the "foes from the outer terminus", referring to the sentients. 

Now that we're all super op teen Tenno, there's nothing for us to do beside fight sentiments. What if some of us want to join them?

is Umbra PvP related? It should be. How about "The Sacrifice" is our fellow players? 

Pvp needs more love DE!!

[Heckzu]

As nice as it would sound to have Conclave on the plains, it would have several issues:

- The plains might be too big for just 8 players. With less than 8 players, the experience would probably be terrible, as you'd have to spend a lot of time just to find an enemy.

- The size of the plains may affect players' computer performance. It's difficult to play on a lower FPS rate than what you're accustomed to.

- Range dropoff would force a sniper meta given the map size. Short range or projectile weapons just wouldn't be viable since most combat would end up being at medium range.

[SevenLetterKWord]

Plains maps, even when cropped to deal with size issues, are unsuitable for Conclave due to lack of cover and lack of verticality.
Certain caves, however, could make decent Conclave maps.

Spoiler

 

---

 

8 hours ago, Veryverylazy said:

Funny how someone who recently said...
pretty much just take his first opportunity

Wow, incredible logic. By the way...

9/15/2017
7/31/2017

One of these dates is a month and a half earlier than the other. Can you tell me which one?

Also, there's a pretty big difference between:
1. Agreeing with positive feedback about progress made on Conclave
2. Agreeing with a poorly-developed proposal that has very little to do with Conclave
And I can easily do one without doing the other.

Quote

try to give feedback that is actually relevant?

You mean like this?

Edited November 22, 2017 by SevenLetterKWord

[Archforge]

I'm go for this idea. My only problem is that DE uses the 4 player limit in almost all instances due to server limitations. If they can somehow combine the wide HUGE map of plains and include the multi-player system used in conclave, then I think Plains PvP is just the first step in making the game truly MMO.

[Nazrethim]

On 31/7/2017 at 8:28 PM, Witchydragon said:

 as long as operators can't also phase dash, it would be an actually good pvp mode that's unique.

Actually, since Operators only have a limited amount of Void Dash (3) then have to wait for recharge, it wouldn't be bad, could be altered a bit:

Void Beam/Amps: damage and ammo use adjusted

Void Blast: dunno if knockdown or damage, I think kd would be too strong so probably just damage

Void Dash: no invulnerability or invisibilty during it. Maybe some little damage or a very very short stagger

Focus schools and magus/virtuous disabled.

[Veryverylazy]

I dont see much potential in such settings unless serious changes are made to the core gameplay or the map gets adapted enought to replicate the settings you can see in other maps. It's not just a matter of not being able to take cover properly but also a matter of how much line of sights are going to be blocked around the whole place to prevent camping (specially when you can basically fully cover your whole body behind a wall and shot people with hitscan weapons without risking yourself due to the camera of the game).

If a wider map like PoE would be implemented in the plains, i would like to see lots of rocks and settlement blocking Line of sight, adding verticality and basically allowing the posiblity to reach the same area from different paths without directly exposing yourself to people who might already be camping there.

This might sound like a overall map feedback but it's not, just to create a base for my suggestion later one:
The Eart map (and in close degree, the infested one) already have a problem that there are ways to rotate to different parts of the map but those paths are basically simply long hallways that sometimes detour waay too much from the base area of the map preventing the transtition to be fluid, let alone that as soon as you reach a corner, because there's no other way to reach that player besides just moving forward across those very hallways, you basically cant reach that player anymore/they cant reach you, and if you want to rotate to reach him in a different way, the routes are so long and so far away from the main points that by the time you reach the <entrance> to any alternative route the other player might be in any part of the map by then because there's tons of areas to transition from small rooms to others but not the map as a whole. it does not create an area where you sacrifice getting cornered at the cost of being able to reach other parts of the map more easily nor anything (unless someone comes from the area you were moving towards to, but that could happen just fine -or with less room to dodge or retaliate- in smaller rooms/alternative paths just fine). They are just long, boring, almost empty hallways that takes forever to completely pass trough with no really relevant gameplay mechanic besides knowing that by the time you finish going trough those worm holes, because they are so long, players you where chasing could be potentially anywhere by the time you reach the end.

So open maps with no verticality or cover are already bad from the get go, specially with the camera in Warframe that allows you to shoot while you are basically completely behind a wall, but if they address blocking line of sights, adding verticality and creating alternative routes for the same with "natural" obstacles like rocks, trees or even settlement, i hope they wouldn't go with the design of Earth. Even if you know there might be a sniper there, even if you know the warframe the person is using or if its shooting from behind a wall or not, if the paths takes too long to reach the player without creating a big window where the player could potentially move while you are doing basically nothing but jumping across a big, long, empty, slow, boring hallway, then you are not going to be able to use it reliably for approaching situations like that.

What i would suggest are teleporters, like the ones in Quake. Big, marked-in-mini-map, static, obvious teleporters that players could use to reach different areas, with some of them being one-sided (specially the ones further away from the center of the map) to prevent scaping all the areas at all time. Otherwise walking towards one point to the other in searching for players like a headless chikens might feel random, inconsistent or boring (lets not even bring passives like Ivara's).

With the operators, I can imagine that working if the void mode is reeplaced by increased mobility while being in it and the void dash doesn't keep up invulnerable and cloaked. The pickups might be items that refresh your charge faster, and the amps could regen ammo naturally but slowly but could grab ammo pickups to speed it up. Dont know how that would work in an open map area, but i can imagine something like this working in smallers areas besides the map with like 4 differents floors depending on how fast the operator losses the full charge to void dash/speed-boost and how big that energy pool is thus preventing people from easily escaping while you can't do nothing but wait untill you can void dash again to another floors.

I can see potential with changes, but as the operators are currently implemented in the game, i think it would be too boring to do anything with them without making them feel tedious to fight while you pretty much are basically waiting for them to ran out of energy if they dont want to fight (prolong the fight). Equiping the Sword alone* mod just for the sake of trying to scape as soon as you are sllighly uncomfortable in a fight is already brain-dead, easy and cheap enought already, i would not look forward to a mode that pretty much enphasizes the concept of that kind of play and making it <worse> by not being able to shoot back just because the other player feels like not risking taking damage for as long as they can stay in void mode.

Limited mobility due to energy consumption with a lower base mobility of what we already have pretty much sounds like a downgrade version of something we are already doing, and getting caught with no energy for mobility after a fight with someone else might feel super duper discouraging more than encourage better energy-usage since enemies are pretty much going to be spawning all around you all the time and in the long such scenario will inevitably happens. Making the dashes shorter but not limitited, all while not making operators invulnerables while doing it, might be good workaround for that, just make it so if you dash X times in a row you get a soft cooldown making you sacrifice fast mobility towards a point for lower mobility when you finally reach it, something like spamming crouch in CS:GO to move your hitbox really fast but with dashes instead. This could allow freedom of mobility without allowing spam of it when there's no intention to fight back.

I would dig it but i doubt it could be implemented without massives changes to how the mechanics of operators work. With reworks like this or the ones Nazrethim suggested, would be cool.

*: _{(should probably be for its own thread, but whatever, just think its a mechanic that might be related to what a fight against current operators might be like so i adressed it as an example)} No saying that people with just their meele equiped shouldn't have extra mobility to compensate for their range but granting extra mobility when there's no will to fight back is too much for how low-effort it is specially since being able to block (and even return) damage just for having the meele equiped is enought of a trade-off already. I wouldn't mind if it would have like a second or two of ramp up before it has the full effect of the speed since people who are willing to use the melee for the stances are going be carrying it for longer than that anyway and it would make it a more decisive, less brain-dead tactic, something that could be implemented for operators's dash/void mode if they ever implement it keeping the invulnerability, create a delay between wanting to reach the invulnerabilty and actually being invulnerable or put a cooldown on the invulnerability to prevent spam, or make so if you actualy want invulnerabilty it will be short and drain your energy and full potential to move after its over, allowing the chance for leaving an scenario that is hard to control (enemies spawning close to you while you where against someone else, as an example) but a trade off to make up for it.

I would really like a mode with operators with changes like that, but i dont think the effort that would possibly take (i´m not a developer so i dont know how hard it would actually be to make but i can image it would be a serious pain in the butt) will justify the implementation. Would cool, tough, it would be really cool. I like the potential it has it changes are made to the base controls and mechanics.

-----------                ▒▒▒▒▒▒                ----------

In terms of a Scavange, i dont know if it would be a good idea specially for how explotaible it could be considering that opinions like this for PvP exist:

The problem of how perfomance of a player can be directly affected by items you cant get in PvP itself (like reactors on non prime warframes that you want just for pvp, or catalyst for weapons that are subpar in PvE) could be adressed however. You can mods for PvP playing conclave along some PvE ways to get a speficic ammount of mods that also works on PvP, you can even rank your weapons in pvp after putting forma in them if you see fancy when you only want those weapons for PvP, but there's currently no way to get catalyst, reactors or forma/forma bps in any way outside of event-specific pvp scenarios. That could be adressed for sure, if weren't for my time spent in PvE to get enought plat to buy some extra catalyst to make weapons that i only use in PvP better, i pretty much had no way to push them up a little bit harder, specially with really expensive mods like the reload while holster one. Some weapons cant even use all the slots they have aviable because they are limited by wich mods they can use, yet other weapons and warframes can use them all (if you want since most mods have trade-off while a few are straight upgrades) making a matter of being able to slap all the mods you want a problem of farming enought outside of PvP to get the items you need to make them better, not really a representation of how good you have been doing in PvP. If you had that you might a weapon <just> for conclave, adding a catalyst (godforbid, forma) to a weapon feels even worse there.

Even when it would be cool to have something like a scavange/free-roam pvp, the potential for it to get exploited is really high and can't image a good to implement what to get from it that would make the risk/challenge worth it.

-----------                ▒▒▒▒▒▒                ----------

On 31/7/2017 at 9:15 PM, SevenLetterKWord said:

It is a terrible idea, proposed by those who - in their incapacity to learn the fundamental skills of Conclave - bellyached for a mode with no fundamental skills to learn.

Funny how someone who recently said

On 16/9/2017 at 12:29 AM, SevenLetterKWord said:

Good to have some occasional positivity.

pretty much just take his first opportunity to basically do nothing but call people out, if not straight insulting, while giving no positive feedback whatsoever. If you like some occasional positivity yourself, how about try to be a good example of what a positive comment is and try to give feedback that is actually relevant?
If you want Feedback on what positivity is: stick to your second comment in this thread, the first is completely irrelevant and was nothing but a room for your to say that people who dont think like you are incapable or learning or playing the game. I would say it's ironic if werent for the fact that it's something that I'd expect already. That comment helps no-one.

Spoiler

Quote

Wow, incredible logic. By the way...

Mind sharing what gives you enought confidence about your "argument" that you tought you could be sarcastic without actually defending what you tought was wrong? because i dont see anything good in your "argument" that would defend such attitute let alone being confident enought about it to be sarcastic with it. But since you seem to like dates so much, lets get a go at it then.

Your comment did absoletely nothing but insult people. Did not said why you think people couldnt learn anything from playing operator (let alone feedback to what you would request for a change on that), nor defended why you took for granted that if they suggest  such a game mode means that its because of "their incapacity to learn the fundamental skills of Conclave" when there were even people who still liked gamemodes like Quick steel and was also the mommen where i found the highest ammount of acceptance to conclave (with different apples here and there, but whatever) where it was pretty much cutting everyone of their mods and reducing variables to take in consideration when deal with people since warframes had no special abilities nor passives. Im basically putting arguments into your mount now (because you had none), but is really no potential there to get something good from a mode that people could enjoy? Are those players who liked Quick steel for what it was also incompetent for you even if that could make them be more frequent in regular pvp? Should the devs feel ashamed for trowing up a cuted, modified version of conclave as an event because only people who couldn't deal with the full "fundamental skills" of conclave could potentially enjoy?

You offered nothing in your comment, you never addressed with any argument at all why you tought it could be bad and how there would be no possible way to work around it or get something good out of it, you straight up insulted people. It could create a new mode for people who finished the Second dream quest, it could keep it small enought in variables to make it fairly even for players as an introduction for pvp or an alternative to it like opticor or the special events, or, if we dont ignore the concept of the suggestion for a open and bigger map in the game, it could have the potential of using tools that are inside the map PoE that could be used to address the potentional explotability of a desing that is too open insinde a pvp game (cut line of sight using rocks and settlement also using them for extra verticality, or even adressing rotations across the map with a new, alternative way of transportation using something like teleports or the like), but no, gotta say how people are too incompetent for not thinking the way i do, that should show them to have opinions.

Using your own arguments of what you think is right or wrong and how you shouldnt limit yourself to behave in a specific way, ok, lets see if your pointless remarks where worthy of your example:

First, not because you dont agree with someone's opinion means that you should say nothing about the matter nor force yourself to agree with it, i never implied that being positive meant that you should agree with that you think isn't right, otherwise i would not use as recommendation, for you, to stick with a post you made in this very thread where you where <disagreeing> with what was being suggested but offering relevant, positive feedback about why you tought it wasnt right. How you managed to asimilate that i was limiting the concept of positivity to acceptance when i pretty much expressed the opossite in the very comment you quoted is beyond me, besides that you probably didnt noticed that due to addressing comments recklesly or, being really ironic, no having the capacity of being able to read.

Any way, lets see your example.

Quote

1. Agreeing with positive feedback about progress made on Conclave
2. Agreeing with a poorly-developed proposal that has very little to do with Conclave

Yes, you can agree with what you think is right and saying why (if you must), and yes, you can say that you agree with something you dont like if you feel like it but is something that no one is asking you to do. If you dont like something, address the faults you see in their arguments, you didnt do that, you just straight up insulted people. Not only you didnt agreed with anything that you tought was right in this thread (something that is completely irrelevant and nobody asked you to do, even more i encoraged you to say what you tought wasnt right thus why i used your second comment as an example), you neither agreed to something that you tought was " a poorly-developed proposal that has very little to do with Conclave". You could "easily do one without doing the other", alright, but in this case you didnt neither, you simply straight up insulted people. How is that argument supossed to be relevant when nothing of what you proposed in those examples are things you did in this thread?

Also, really funny how you mark the concept of how there's a difference between the dates of your posts that makes them be more than a month appart like if there were any relevance to what you actually said in those post, unless you are really just latching into me using the word "recently" as an excuse to ignore the whole argument.  Well, if one month is too much for you to handle or just a reason to discredit my comment just because my example used quotes that were (for you) too far apart, how about i use two concepts that i sent in a single comment, concepts that were sent at the very same second after me pressing the button to submit a eply, where i addressed your first comment as irrelevant (and basically an insult) along me suggesting you to stick to comments like the second you sent where you were still disagreeing with what was being suggested but yet offering relevant feedback about what could be used from the image of what PoE is to create content for PvP. That didnt stoped you from misunderstanding the concept of what i actually said nor contradict yourself in an edit of the same very post where you used the concept that comments from yourself that where one month and half old was too long to be relevant yet istill insisted in using comments (also from yourself) that were more than old year old yet arbitrarily consider those as relevant to back up your claims. Simply arbitrarily, yet still malleable into what you prefer at any given notice, how convenient. If you would allow me, please, sir, to quote another message from you (i promise it will not be one month+ old), i would like to chose this one that says " Wow, incredible logic. ". 10/10

Funny how when it comes to me using your very messages, the date is completly relevant and its outrageous that i could even consider to use the comments at all if they were more than one month and half appart from eachother, something that you completely arbitrarily decided to use as a base to consider that that they were too old to matter, but when it comes to defending yourself you can use comments of yourself that are more that a year old without repercusions. If all comes down to you latching onto my usage of the word "recently" to spell and trow nonsense at the air to pretend you had an argument, using the date of your comments as an excuse to arbitrarily decided when they are too far apart to matter, then that's the equivalent to discrediting a comment because of a typo, and i too can disregard what i dont find convenient while latching onto the rest based on pointless assumptions and comments (contradictory comments in your case, even) and tell you that you didnt even spelt the date right, it was the 16/09/17, not 15/09/17. See? I can also decide what should be used as a base to judge a comment's worth. By that "logic", i can make your comment complety irrelevant if i feel like so, but i would rather stick to arguments i can actually defend, something that you have yet to do in regard to your first coment ITT. You simply, straight up, insulted people.

In sumary, and to quote a champ-and-the-judge of who should be considered worthy to be capable of holding an opinion and what should be used as a base to estimate a comment's worth while also conveniently changing the merit of said base that he think is more favorable for himself:

On 21/11/2017 at 12:58 AM, SevenLetterKWord said:

Wow, incredible logic.

Tl;dr:

• How is the difference between the date of the messages that i used relevant at all?
• If the date should be relevant and the difference one month and half of your comments is too much to make my argument relevant, why didn't that stoped you from using comments from yourself that were more than one year old to defend your arguments. Sounds very convenient how you can change how much a difference between comments's worth based on what you see favorable. Lovely.
• I've never said to agree with everything, no matter if you like them or not, and pass that out as "positive feedback". Not only that, i even used an example (inside the very same date, mind you, if that triggers you so much) of another of your comments where you were directly disagreeing with what other people said and i was addressing that comment as an example of feedback that is actually relevant, you also didn't do any of the two examples you proposed of things that you could do without being forced to do the other, either.
  • You proposed as examples:
    • 1. Agreeing with positive feedback about progress made on Conclave
      • Something that you never did since you were showing disagreement on both of your comments in this thread.
    • 2. Agreeing with a poorly-developed proposal that has very little to do with Conclave
      • Something that you also didn't do in this thread, again, was agreeing with a  proposition that you firmly showed dislike about but yet failed to support why you disagreed with them. What you did instead was simply disregard other people's opinions, direspecting their ideas using as a base that the reason for them thinking diferently than how you do is because of their "incapacity to learn the fundamental skills of Conclave". Basically, an insult.
  • Yet still you didn't mention why those random examples of what you can or can't do are suposed to be relavant if:
    • I didn't tell you to agree with everything
    • I didn't tell you that positive feedback is not showing an opinion of your own, something that you could try to respect from other people instead of calling people out or judging their skills to learn something just because they think diferently that you.
    • I offered as example of what i think was positive feedback from yourself (inside a *insert an arbitrarily ammount of time period here*, mind you) a comment where you were directly disagreeing with what other people said, yet you managed to get the idea that i was encouraging you to agree with everything and show no opposite oppinion whatsoever. For someone who finds so much relevance on dates, for someone who randomly thinks that one month and half is too much (yet more than a year is completely ok'sh), tell me, how did you managed to miss on such a simple concept between comments that were not only inside the same day but also in the same freaking post in this thread.

Seriously, tell me after all this mess of what you could call arguments, why i should consider your remarks of the diferences between dates of anything related at all in this very thread as relevant? You dont even show  the decency of following your own damn rules. Maybe you could focus more of what you actually do and say across a year instead of what happens in random instances of dates that have no meaning at all (untill you said they do, of course) so then that could prevent you from sending comments that pretty much do nothing but belittle and insult others while trying to pass that out as an argument. Your argument was essentially empty, with no substance, without anything to back up why you tought that way, it was nothing but a message charged with nothing but an insult in it. I really dont know where your idea of being better that others comes from to give you enought confidence to send such a post disregarding other people's opinions and jugding their to potential to learn something at all just because they think diferently that you, let alone adressing my comment still relying on sarcasm and snobish remarks and try to pass that out as an argument, let alone with such flawled arguments like those you used.

Feel free to send me a pm if you want to keep this going since there is no relavance in we editing message to infinity if we can continue somewhere else and even when i still think my comment about your first post is relevant, the difference of why both of us might think diferently could easily be addressed through private message instead. This thread doesn't need any of this thing, let alone making my bible even longer.

-----------                ▒▒▒▒▒▒                ----------

On 20/11/2017 at 6:16 PM, Heckzu said:

It's difficult to play on a lower FPS rate

True, perfomance would be a great issue, even on Earth its noticiable. Fps are tied to:

• Movement (how fast you can move depends directly on your fps when you are holding movement buttons).
• Dps of some warframes's abilities.
• Drag from beam weapons.
• Delay between flickshots with proyectile weapons and where they actually go when you shoot (based on how fast you move your crosshair)
• Perception of movement (less relevant than the others in my opinion)
• _{Some other bugs/exploits that also affect PvE but i'd rather not share them so they dont get nerf'd}

Also, CPU usage with high fps can also cause massive lag, responsivity, along all the other problems that you get when your cpu is clear but the fps are low.

Some serious optimization would be required to prevent problems like that from ocurring. Sounds really hard to implement.

-----------                ▒▒▒▒▒▒                ----------

Tl;dr:

• Open map need to seriously address Line of sight and fluidity to rotate to diferent areas of the map to allow counter play to camping and avoid mindless chassing. I suggest rocks and settlements as obstactles to break Line of Sight and a mean to add extra vertically, along static teleporters for mobility.
• Operators would need a rework of their abilities to make them viable to implement without creating frustating circumstances like players going into void mode for as long as they can just because they dont feel like taking damage. Remove invulnerability or make it an special ability that has a cooldown on it while alloying void dash to grant mobility without invulnerability and control the energy/ammo regen with a passive way to do plus map pickups to speed them up and create more fight scenarios.
• Performance in a big map would be a real issue considering how many aspect of the game are tied to fps and cpu consumption.
• Dont be a snob

Edited November 22, 2017 by Veryverylazy

[TheJadrimian]

Well this was a surprise; first time this week I've signed in to the forums, and it turns out a thread I posted in July got revived. :P

Now that the Plains update is actually out, it's clear it'd be challenging to make the Plains PvP-ready. I still think it's a neat idea in principle, and I'd hope DE at least tinkers with the concept internally, but the design of the map would certainly be a big hurdle.

On the other hand, I'd love it if there were a way to earn standing for Cetus / Quills and/or get Plains resources through PvP, via some kind of tie-in. Perhaps a Plains Cave map tied into a Tactical Alert...

Edited November 23, 2017 by TheJadrimian

[(XBOX)She Was Ready]

1 minute ago, TheJadrimian said:

Well this was a surprise; first time this week I've signed in to the forums, and it turns out a thread I posted in July got revived. :P

Now that the Plains update is actually out, it's clear it'd be challenging to make the Plains PvP-ready. I still think it's a neat idea in principle, and I'd hope DE at least tinkers with the concept internally, but the design of the map would certainly be a big hurdle.

On the other hand, I'd love it if there were a way to earn standing for Cetus / Quills and/or get Plains resources through PvP, via some kind of tie-in. Perhaps a Plains Cave map tied into a Tactical Alert...

It has always been my dream to see pvp in warframe evolve into something greater than a couple of maps that rotate back and forth. Conclave has so much potential that if DE incorporated more rewards into the system of conclave. A lot of people would have a reason to play it. Conclave needs to be structured and organized in the manner that clans should be able to compete against other clans. Or perhaps even alliances. 

DE has already created the social structure of pve through plains of eidolon, making a whole new side of plains being pvp could greatly benefit the community in the sense that people would have to worth on their skills and improve their gear to be a fit opponent against their rival. We have to think BIGGER! Not just your average of TDM on a huge map. But imagine if DE could incorporate bases! In where the clans/alliances capture them and the rival clans attempt to take it from them through the force of pvp. The longer you hold those bases the more resources or credits your clans/alliance can get. 

This would bring back the true meaning if clans and alliances as well as pvp! People would actually have a reason to play conclave! They wouldn't just be players getting kills and looking at the leaderboards for feed back on ho good they were. They would be warriors fighting for a bigger cause in the game. Knowing that the stakes of losing their base or failing to take a bse could prove very inconvenient for them. 

Clans would be united once again not just be collecting resources to build rooms, but working together to do something bigger than the individual and affecting not just their dojo but the community its self. PLEASE DE DO THIS!!!