[Update 21.4.0] Hydroid Revisited Feedback

[CHIEF-117]

37 minutes ago, Defion said:

Hope you ment to say, at the reduced cost of energy?

Tentacle Swarm: Tentacle Swarm can be charged to get more tentacles over a larger area for more Energy

Aw really? more at a bigger area? I need more at a smaller area to make use of those lovely choke points. 

And also why make everything so bloody energy expensive? You guys think a trinity or harrow is standard in every mission? Does a spector trinity or harrow also replenish your energy? Do I really have to trow down energy pads every freaking minute to be a little if not tiny bit effective?

And why not undo his 4th nerf? yes I call it a bloody nerf, ammo and credits drop plenty enough, mods and energy orbs do not....

Dang it another rework that seems to usless....

Keep it up though I'm sure after 25 other years 1 is bound to be good 

 

Allright allright, fact given you could mod for effective energy cost and dur but you know... having your abilitys hardly do any dmg makes them pretty usless....

1 would be better with double credits from kills because of the pirate theme , and 4 is notspammable and has aweful range.

[BattledOne]

>Building synergies around Undertow instead of removing the ability and introducing something non S#&$e 

Please tell me this is a joke.

[Defion]

@CHIEF-117

Chroma has that allready as a passive, hydroid does not need more credit drops.

The moment DE announced that 1 hotfix that stated " Changed hydroid's 4th to be more on par with nekros" my heart skipped a beat and I knew they removed the 1 thing hydroid had going from him, And Hydroid bin hardly/rarely/never played by me ever since then.

Edited August 10, 2017 by Defion

[Darkvramp]

Tidal Surge:

• Tidal Surge can be used to move around without canceling Undertow (note that Tidal Surge speed - and hence distance - is halved when used in Undertow).
•   Why is the distance halved?
• Tidal Surge will now pull enemies along for the ride.
• NO IT DOES NOT!!!

Edited August 10, 2017 by Darkvramp
color change for emphasis

[thegreatersea]

While overall I like this rework, I do have a few issues:

1. I would have preferred a health increase over a shield increase. The armor increase is much appreciated.
2. His passive is still kind of uninteresting/unwieldy. It should either be replaced with something that synergizes with his abilities more, or simply changed to an X% chance on kill, as has been previously suggested.
3. I don't really understand why his ability scaling is charged-based? He's the only frame to work that way, and even Oberon's rework involved straight-up numbers scaling rather than charging. If there's a good reason for this, I'll work with it, but as of now this mechanic is unsatisfying to use and too energy-hungry for Hydroid's current energy pool.

That said, I like how his abilities have been tweaked overall, and I hope this feedback helps!

[Pyus]

Thanks for the rework. My feedback below:

- Tempest Barrage: Charge up animation is non-existent, Hydriod just stands there waiting for a fist bump, then drops the mic. The actual Tempest barrage ability seems unchanged, and doubling the damage of an ability that does minor damage already does not change much. 

- Tempest Surge: Pulling people along is nice, and being able to use abilities in undertow is nice. 

- Undertow: The additional damage per second should be per 1/4 secon and/or multiplicative not additional. To go from 100 dps to 200 dps takes 10 seconds, 50 seconds to get up to 500dps.. that's just really low. Like terribly low dps. I know it's not a dps ability per say, but it is low enough to be completely ignored. 

- Tentacle Swarm: I could be wrong, but it seems like the initial eruption damage was removed. Also, you can summon multiple of them now.. which is odd and seems undocumented. The real killer of this ability has always been that eruption damage. 

 

Overall, the rework solves none of the problems Hydroid had, and still has. He has no damage mitigation unless he's trapped under water slowly losing energy. He has no way to recovery energy. He is a frame who had a purpose in pilfering swarm, and now he can't do that well. Seems like all his problems were over looked just to give him some cool new animiations and graphics, literally putting lipstick on a pig. 

[Odeusus.exe]

I'm absolutely loving the rework, however it broke the Curative Undertow augment for Hydroid... I'm unable to heal anything with it.
And yes I do have positive power strength etc

[Firework64]

28 minutes ago, Tacritan said:

And i was hyped for this

This is not a rework. This is just a buff.

They buffed a puddle instead of removing that ability and replacing it with something good, like Exalted Anchor on huge chain or something like that.

They just choose a quick, lazy way to buff hydroid with tweaked numbers, rushed "rework" to get that prime out and more moniez off PA.

Good job DE Maybe if they would play their own game they would know what the hydroid issue is. but guess what.

I totally agree with him. His number 1  is ridiculously useless at higher levels and the passive isn't good either. Two is a bit bad but lets you avoid damage while charging the 4th ability. I really don't see a situation when the 1st/3rd ability comes in useful.    Thanks for the rework anyway DE : at least the 4th ability is amazing

[WinterLynx]

I'm honestly disappointed.  His powers are still lackluster compared to other frames, and brings nothing to a team.  I feel a full rework replacing abilities would greatly benefit him.

[Melos-mevim]

so far toying with it I'm over all enjoying it, I would say up the damage on his 4 more or find a way to get the damage to scale, also increase his energy pool, what he currently has is just waaaaaaay way to small for what he needs to be doing

 

I'd also reduce the casting animation times on his 1 and 4

Edited August 10, 2017 by Melos-mevim

[Terawr]

Still waiting for the that rework... oh wait. This is the rework? Well, he feels and acts the same as he once was. I expected a minimal rework... but my god... this is barebones. I really hope de plays around with him and looks at him again  to actually rework him :/ hydroid deserves much more than this pitiful  rework...

[CHIEF-117]

44 minutes ago, Defion said:

Hope you ment to say, at the reduced cost of energy?

Tentacle Swarm: Tentacle Swarm can be charged to get more tentacles over a larger area for more Energy

Aw really? more at a bigger area? I need more at a smaller area to make use of those lovely choke points. 

And also why make everything so bloody energy expensive? You guys think a trinity or harrow is standard in every mission? Does a spector trinity or harrow also replenish your energy? Do I really have to trow down energy pads every freaking minute to be a little if not tiny bit effective?

And why not undo his 4th nerf? yes I call it a bloody nerf, ammo and credits drop plenty enough, mods and energy orbs do not....

Dang it another rework that seems to usless....

Keep it up though I'm sure after 25 other years 1 is bound to be good 

 

Allright allright, fact given you could mod for effective energy cost and dur but you know... having your abilitys hardly do any dmg makes them pretty usless....

 

54 minutes ago, [DE]Danielle said:

 

Hydroid Revisited

Please use this thread to give us your feedback on Hydroid Revisited. We will be closely monitoring your practical feedback - feel free to share videos and discussions after playing with Hydroid's revamped abilities. Non-constructive feedback, dev-bashing, and any other content that violates the Guidelines will be removed.

The sea has a revamped fear creeping in the depth, and his name is Hydroid.

With Hydroid Prime emerging to the surface soon, the team took another glance at Hydroids power and what we could do in order to achieve ability synergy. Hydroid now brings barrages, puddles, and tentacles into a deadly oceanic horror. 

General Hydroid Changes

• Hydroid’s base Shield and Armor has received a buff! 
• Shield is now 375 from 345. 
• Armor is now 200 from 65.

Tempest Barrage:

• Tempest Barrage can be cast while in Undertow and will now hit enemies submerged in Undertow.
• Tempest Barrage can now be charged for longer Duration (more explosions) and more Damage for more Energy.

Tidal Surge:

• Tidal Surge can be used to move around without canceling Undertow (note that Tidal Surge speed - and hence distance - is halved when used in Undertow).
• Tidal Surge will now pull enemies along for the ride.
• Tidal Surge can be interrupted at any point by casting Undertow to go into your puddle, sinking enemies being pulled along.

Undertow:

• Hydroid can pull enemies into Undertow by aiming and clicking on them.
• Undertow can be cast while in air.
• Jump and roll will break Hydroid out of Undertow.
• Hydroid can now move while in Undertow at the expense of Energy.
• Submerged enemies in Undertow receive Damage Per Second, increasing every second they are submerged.
• Enemies that die will be released from Undertow instead of dragging their dead bodies along for the ride.

Tentacle Swarm:

• Hold onto your ships, Tentacle Swarm has received a new look straight from the depths of the sea! Can you summon the Kraken?
• Tentacle Swarm can be charged to get more tentacles over a larger area for more Energy.
• Hydroid tentacles will now seek out nearby enemies and attempt to slam on top of them rather than just always flailing randomly and hoping they hit something.
• Tentacle Swarm will protrude from Hydroid’s Undertow if active when cast.

Great job with the nerf. Please get rid of charge time and increase damage and range of 4. For 1 to be usefull to go with the pirate theme make kills drop double credits. His abilities feel really slow. Maybe make 4 drain and do it like world on fire with ember.

[SonofaBishop]

Definitely better than before.

A big thing though is his 4 still is not useless, but annoying. Having enemies flail unpredictably through the air is frustrating both for other players and the caster. It would be great if the tentacles did something like pinned enemies to the ground or held them relatively in place in the air.

[ZonePL]

I'll start form good note. been able to stop 2nd at any time you want is good. And i must say trying to play around "hold to make it better" is not a bad idea. Thats all.

1st problem, hydroid now more survivable, but till 30-40 lvl. He still needs some kind of ability to CC or\and survive(rino skin, invis e.t.c.)

Tempest Barrage  still not consisntant as cc. And make it wider and stronger doesnt help it. What should do is range of explosion. And tenno already paying TIME fore charging this ab. Why should we also pay more energy fo non-consistant CC?

While i LOVE touch with Tidal Surge Stop,do it trough 3rd is killing it. It should be "press to roll, and press again to stop.

Undertow is still press and forget for interception. And centralising hydroid around being puddle... I can imagine...

Frost- I can freeze people

Ember-i can blow stuff

Volt-i can be sonic(Nezha from far away-Me too)

Hydroid-i can be puddle.

Tentacle Swarm basicly didnt change anything.

Overall- This is not rework, i wouldn't call it. Nothing changed or replaced. Just added. And even that, nothing something big and a little something good. Hydroid still doesnt have any role(All cc abilities are non-consistant) or play style(of course, if you like being puddle).

[paul5473]

i feel he needs more armour 200 is still not enough also does his power scale?

Edited August 10, 2017 by paul5473

[Troll_Logic]

Is that all the kraken does?  Pop his nose up for 3 seconds and then go away?

 

[Tenno.Rukasu]

Hydroid still boring. Shield and armor buff is awesome, increased a lot his survivalbility, but I was expecting something totally new. After a while you use his skills just for CC. Tempest Barrage is ok, Tidal Surge has some mobility advantages but I consider waste of energy, Undertow is a really boring skill, there is no fun in being a pool, and Tentacle Swarm need to change, when playing 40+ level missions is a CC skill, but enemies keep flying away and sometimes you cant shoot/meele them, more hinders than helps.

[linoren]

Hydroid improvement suggestion: the pilfering swarm mod guarantees +100% drop loot, make it have another roll for energy orbs (same with nekros hp orbs) to make hydroid a bit more self sustainable.

[Duckboy3825]

One thing that I want to be added is that if you hold enemies for more than 5 seconds underwater with his Under toe and release them, they will spend several seconds on the ground gasping for air.

It would also be cool if there were to be some sort of trigger to make the tentacle swarm fish thing to follow you and take it's tentacles with it, making him a little more mobile. Something along those lines anyway.

[Navarc]

Hey guys, REALLY happy you used so many community suggestions!
Overall I think he's in a great spot right now and got much of what he needed - however I think the passive still needs to be updated. Making it trigger on ground finishers rather than ground slams works much better because Hydroid already knocks over all enemies with any of his abilities. Having a passive that requires him to use melee to knock down enemies feels very unnecessary.
Making it work with ground finishers instead would make it work perfectly with his abilities. 
Deep Tendril: Performing a ground finisher on a prone enemy causes a tentacle to spawn on the target. If ground finisher damage was lethal, 50% chance to spawn a tentacle on the closest enemy to Hydroid.

1. I still think that every enemy hit by his barrage should increase the duration by 1 second. It still doesn't pierce Frosts Globe from what I can tell.
2. I still think that enemies ahead of the end of his Tidal Surge, as in the enemies hit by the wavebreak should be opened to finishers. Enemies struck by tidal surge should add to the melee combo counter. Cancelling an ability prematurely doesn't cost extra energy for anyone but Hydroid, I don't think that's right. Please let us cancel by clicking 2 again or make his 3 free for a few seconds after casting 2. Also, enemies do not appear to be following tidal surge. It still just ragdolls them rather than absorb them.
3. The tentacles should reach further but I'm really glad we can pull them in at all honestly. Maybe up it from 15 meters to 20, 25 meters? 
4. Tentacles if they have no targets need to submerge and hide inside their pools - to help with performance. I still think the tentacles need to disappear and re-appear on new targets within the area if they aren't damaging anything, because even if they now try to hit new enemies to capture, the ones stuck on walls and roof still often can't grab anything. Making them respawn on new targets really would be for the best and feel more alive.
The issue of people struggling to kill enemies captured by tentacles remains, so I still think enemies that are prone when his 4 is cast should be constricted rather than swung.
    I understand that many players used low-range to be able to make chokepoints with the tentacles and that's why you're allowing us to tap 4 to have a chokpoint. But tapping for the big area is what we're used to using and it really is preferable in MOST situations, only end-game camping is where the small range is really worthwhile.
Please considering making tapping 4 to cast it in its normal range & hold 4 to halve the cost & halve the range. 

On another note, some further feedback on bugs that haven't been addressed yet:

Pilfering Swarm ceased to work since the rework
Tidal Impunity only visually appears in recasts, but you're still going to get status procced
Curative Undertow no longer heals Fixed!
The water from the squid in Tentacle Swarm stretches up on walls.
Small Hydroid

Edited August 14, 2017 by Navarchus

[Autongnosis]

I tried it. 

I think the problem is the energy cost mainly. It's sky high for a frame with low energy pool and no way to regen. 

Second problem lies with tentacles, basically the change is good but the fact that they still flop about is a bummer. I'd rather have them hunker down and constrict a foe to death immobilising him to be honest. AI change is great though, they are much more useful after the initial blast is over now. 

Half disappointed about the fish head tho, i thought it'd do simething but it's just an FX sadly </3

[Duckboy3825]

The original poster of this thread meant it as a joke, but I think they may be onto something.

 

[Invincible.Jupiter]

This was so disappointing he just went from awful to maybe mediocre none of the issues were fixed and his theme is still not being used to its full potential. There is still no reason to ever pick him over other better frames, This was not a rework just a lazy band-aid.

Edited August 10, 2017 by Anna.Joestar

[Karixolu]

My two cents. 

1: It's good. Cast during undertow? Amazing. Charging for more duration I can get behind, but hydroids lackluster energy pool makes it suck. It makes me feel like casting my 1 is just a waste of energy.

7/10. Improved usage by covering more area, but please lower the initial cost to 15 energy, and 25 when fully charged. Also some kind of indicator for charge level would be appreciated.

2: Cast during Undertow again. Perfect. Reduced range seems compleatly understandable. But it's a shame you don't catch enemys during the wave, but you catch enemys if you cast Undertow while moving? Umm.. Okay.

5/10. Not much changed. Energy cost should be 35, not 50 as it currently is Hydroids low energy pool doesn't do him any favors,

3: Grab far away enemys, lowered the range from 15m to 4m, but gave a grab range of 15m, in addition to it getting more damage per second, which is finisher damage? Sadly, it doesn't scale, so only useful for level 25 or below. Can move freely inside it? That's neat!

6/10. Very nice changes, but the energy drain, again. Cripples the poor guy. It felt good for the 15 seconds I was a puddle, but when all 300 energy was gone, no more fun. Since grabbing uses energy too, and doesn't always get enemys if they're behind cover, or a small ledge. Lower the drain rate, and possibly increase the speed based on power strength maybe? Also, change the dmg to 2% max HP/shield per second, adding 2% per second. 2, 4, 6, 8, 10. Total of 30% of their total HP in 5 seconds. Since most enemys die faster then that by weapons anyway.

4: Can now charge for more tentacles? And larger area? Seems okay. Tentacle AI improved, VERY nice. 50 energy/100 if charged seems fair for what it does.

9/10. you get rewarded for spending the energy for this ability, and it feels good, expecially since the tentacles now seek enemy's out.

TL;DR. Reduce costs on 1, 2, and 3 ability, with a little more, and a little more interaction.

Edited August 10, 2017 by Karixolu
Added stuff.

[Autongnosis]

2 minutes ago, linoren said:

Hydroid improvement suggestion: the pilfering swarm mod guarantees +100% drop loot, make it have another roll for energy orbs (same with nekros hp orbs) to make hydroid a bit more self sustainable.

^ Also this.