[Update 21.4.0] Hydroid Revisited Feedback

[ZetraThorn]

Okay so after playing with updated toolkit i have some thoughts.

1)Tempest barrage.

I'd say it desperately needs some animation or chrge indicator. Maybe similar to mana counter on harrow turible?  

2)Tidal surge.

Seems fine.

 

3)Undertow.

Oh boy. This one is a big one. Okay we can move now at snails pace at expence of energy. But we lost 75% of the size of the puddle. Why. You need to be able to move at least Ivara's cloak spee for it to be usefull. It would actually make hydroid very good for stealth. As for the puddle size. I suggest adding following: if you are not moving for 3 sec puddle starts growing in size up to a max range.

 

You can now cast all abilities while in the puddle. Cool but you will run dry in a couple of seconds. Maybe give energy discount while in the puddle? Like ash smokescreen discount.

 

4)"Unleash the Kraken"

Again, basebrange reduced. Spend more energy to get the same range before the update? Feels assbackwards. Update was supposed to make it better non?

The visual part is very nice though.  Bit of shame color is not affecting it at all now. But thats fine for me.

Edited August 12, 2017 by ThorNecrovitar

[GoodOldLeon]

I share my concerns with a lot of the people here, so I'm not going to be adding to the pile, at this point I think It's very clear this revisit still has ways to go. Mainly that It shouldn't be a revisit, it should be a much needed overhaul. He's better than before, yeah, but still not good or fun enough, wich makes me sad because I really like him and I think he has a lot of potential.

A couple of things off the top of my head: like some said earlier in the thread, 2nd and 3rd abilities should be combined and a new ability should be added, 1st could be a forceful water storm, similar to frost's 4th but not as deadly obviously, a knockdown effect should be enough, maybe leaving enemies open for finishers too. 4th should be Hydroid's own effigy like skill, it would summon the kraken and it would grab and damage enemies around it with its tentacles (grabbing distance would be affected by power range), that should help ease the rng nature of tentacle swarm. 

Hope any of this helps. 

[FoxFX]

I have once thought of replacing Tempest Barrage with an ability that would still fit with Hydroid's theme and the Tempest Barrage Augment:

 

WHIRLPOOL

Hydroid creates a whirlpool that will trap and spin enemies it catches dealing continuous damage until the duration of Whirlpool ends. Holding the ability increases the damage and range of Whirlpool.

 

I guess I could say my personal issue with Tempest Barrage is how it orients from above to attack causing it to collide with environment which can be annoying.

[PsiWarp]

Regarding Hydroid's inconsistent crowd control, I have some feedback and suggestions in mind

Tempest Barrage - water missiles take time to land and their explosion radius is limited, causing occasional gaps where enemies can walk through the bombardment unharmed.

• Add an immediate CC effect to the barrage area. Create a whirlpool that slowly draws enemies toward the center (ala Magnetize), buying time for water missiles to land and knock down enemies.

Tidal Surge - enemies often get pushed far away by the wave because they are ragdolled and thrust by a great force.

• All enemies, as long as they are affected by Tidal Surge's radius, are deposited in front of Hydroid as the wave travels and when the wave breaks.
• Alternatively, enemies that somehow fly away from the wave will be dragged back toward Hydroid by water tendrils, similar to Undertow's grab function. This ensures at least the majority of enemies pushed by Tidal Surge will be near, at, or along the way to Hydroid's new location.

Undertow - submerged enemies are left behind when Hydroid moves away via WASD keys or Tidal Surge during Undertow.

• All submerged enemies will move with Hydroid's puddle as he travels.
• Alternatively, submerged enemies that exit the pool will have water tendrils attached to them, allowing them to briefly exit the pool and then dragging them back in.

Tentacle Swarm - tentacles focus on hitting Hydroid rather than actively facing incoming enemies to snatch them up at the first chance they get.

• As funny as it looks, don't let Hydroid or his companion be eligible targets for tentacles to smack.
• Increase tentacle enemy detection range farther than its actual grab range, allowing tentacles to prep itself against the closest target and capture it the second the enemy walks into grab range.

Hopefully helps solve the sometimes works, sometimes don't nature of his CC. Keep up the good work DE, can't wait for next week's iteration!

Edited August 12, 2017 by PsiWarp
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[(XBOX)ultamite hero]

I have a suggestion that DE will probably not try out but I'm going to put it out there anyways as it will give him greater synergy and fun. This change requires very little work but makes him super fun and viable.

I think when Hydroid uses his ultimate or 4 in his Undertow he should become that kraken head that shows up in his ultimate and has all of the tentacles move to be within the pools radius when 2 of these abilities are used. Essentially when you use undertow and tentacle swarm together you would become the kraken and have a mobile tentacle swarm that is restricted to the radius of undertow, grabbing and sucking people into your tentacles or pool.

It really shouldn't be that hard as all you have to do is make the kraken head appear over the center of hydroids pool while the tentacles would appear in randomly somewhere within the edge pools radius.  Shouldn't be hard to code that right?

Just imagine being the kraken head that's in hydroids pool tidal surging to your enemies sucking them into your pool your while also snatching enemies on the edge of the pools radius with your tentacles that either continues smacking them or drops them into your pool for them to drown. This would make him very fun and would give him some synergy to his abilities.  

 

Edit: Also make the enemies travel along with undertows pool when their snatched.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 12, 2017 by (XB1)ultamite hero

[TotallyLagging]

5 hours ago, (Xbox One)Knight Raime said:

It's a lot faster than I remember it from looking at videos and playing with him on console the other day.  ofc charging makes it take longer.  dunno why you needed to put that.

So basically trying to trash on a good change.  Not new but got it.

As I clearly pointed out it's not really a nerf when you can snatch people from farther than his old puddles range. It's 5 energy at base.  That's not much.  and that's not considering modding.  Which old hydroid builds (unless pilfering swarm) used a lot of efficiency and duration.  If your squad needs to kill the enemies right away you can easily leave puddle quickly and kill them while they are recovering.  I mentioned the not carrying thing should be changed.  Can't comment on the augment change.

I'd say that is a false statement.  tornado has absolutely no consistency.  and will travel well and beyond out of the range.  and it's damage is not nearly as consistent.  tentacle swarm has AI to it.  better damage (since it's more consistent and finisher damage) 

Considering your last statement about oberon i'm not going to bother with giving you another reply.  I've dealt with people like you everytime a rework comes around.

If that's what you consider trashing then any complain is "trashing" Hydroid.

Barrage is faster but it's still not instant as you claimed it to be.

Puddle was nerfed. The tentacle is there to compensate for the reduced range, yes, and it costs energy to use, therefore you have to use more energy to achieve what you could've done before they reduced the range. That's a nerf.

Tentacle Swarm, like I said, is not as consistent as you think it is. Go ahead and test it yourself. And its damage is still very much pathetic despite doing finisher damage.

Curative Undertow used to be able to heal for half your health a tick even with low power strength.

And my Oberon statement is Oberon before all the fixes. The one that can't kill a level 1 enemy with 300% PT Smite. Admittedly I should've clarified that, though considering that all it takes is one statement for you to completely invalidate someone's argument I don't think I want to bother arguing with you either.

Things like this is why threads get locked or merged to obscurity. 

Edited August 12, 2017 by TotallyLagging

[WaterWarrior]

I must congratulate the "Hydroid Revisited".I'm always excited by these things. I appreciate that you take into account the players. The things you do to improve the game are notorious.Well, I want to share my ideas about Hydroid(I came up with these ideas before the revisited version). Hope you understand my English.

Passive "Erosion of the Tide": Enemies that take consecutive damage from Hydroid's abilities receive more damage over time.

Spoiler

Foes that take consecutive dmg from Hydroid's abilities receive the next second or the next tick of dmg multiplied by 1.5 over the dmg caused to them the second previous. E.g : a salvo/missile of water of 'TempestBarrage' hits(the explosion) an enemy dealing 150 of dmg if the next second another salvo hits him again the salvo will deal 225 dmg and if another salvo hits him again it will deal 337.5 dmg.The passive benefits all the abilities of Hydroid.

 

 

Tempest Barrage: it is practically the same(include the new mechanics) but every 15 % damage increased by mods or Allies(e.g.warframes) add 1 more missile/salvo per second. E.g: with max 'Intensify'(30% of P.Strengh),'Tempest Barrage' gains 2 more missiles per second.Using 'Narrow Minded' increases the chance of enemies being hit by the explosions repeatedly.

Tidal surge: It's the same(include the new mechanics).It was my idea too of dragging enemies along.The difference is it makes magnetic dmg instead of impact as the wave travels but remains slash as the wave breaks.The current shields(and over-shields) of Hydroid at the time of casting it is multiplied by 200% and added as extra dmg.

Undertow: It's the same(include the new mechanics).Hydroid can use his primary and secondary weapon when doing this (1)the range of his puddle is reduced 30%(2)can't pull enemies into the puddle(3) the augment mod won't work(4)the upper half of his body is seen(look like wet)so he's detectable but remains immune, also enemies that enter still drowned.Benefits from the passive even with the extra dmg per second of the revisited version.

 

Tentacle Swarm: It's the same as before the revisited changes but: makes impact dmg instead of magnetic, the finisher dmg remains the same.Cost 50 energy to activate and each tentacle consume 5 energy each time they are triggered.Obviously, energy cost is affected by Efficiency.

Spoiler

Within the radius of the marked location, Hydroid set 12 water traps(water traps looks like a puddle).The area/zone of activation of the water traps works as a cylinder(4 m radius and 4 m height). Water traps and marked location area is Affected by P.range. When an enemy enters the volume of the water trap a tentacle spawn and squeezes the enemy. Tentacles stretch to catch the enemy and retract and slowly moves to and fro. This gives the opportunity to melee attack or fire. Every 15 % dmg increased by mods or Allies(e.g.warframes) add 2 water-traps/tentacles.Each tentacle attacks one foe at a time and blocks the auras of his prey.The squared power strength only affects the dmg but not the number of water-traps.Dmg over time benefits from the passive. Visually the tentacles are transparent as Jellyfish flesh but hey have a faded colour of  Hydroid's energy; the base of the tentacle is kind of thick and thins at the end like an octopus's tentacle, it has freckles and suction cups. When a tentacle kills a foe or the time expires it returns to the water-trap.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sure I posted this today it was approximately 2.00 am here in Perú. Forgive me that I'm learning to upload images and gifs.When I say "it's the same" I mean the stats and how the ability usually works.

 

 

 

Edited August 12, 2017 by WaterWarrior
I wrote a word the wrong position

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Why does Hydroid have more armor than rhino?

[SempaiMint]

Full Hydroid Review: Ideas for quick buffs to Hydroid. 

I'd like to start off my Review by saying this rework is going in the right direction for Hydroid's original kit and it was greatly improved functionality-wise. However, the goal of Hydroid didn't seem to be kept in mind. I fully expected this rework to just be a small one so that you can get feedback and I appreciate the sensitivity to the community. The "nerfs" people have been talking about for his 3 and 4 range were thought out to an extent, whereas the execution was flawed and perhaps glitched. After playing him a bunch I sincerely don't mind having the reduced ranges. I also don't mind the control we got over his powers in return (like spawning the tentacles on top of you in undertow). I find myself using the undertow to spawn a lot to block off an area. However, his 1 seems to do that plenty fine, whereas his 4 should have been the greater AOE CC effect rather than making it like his 1. So I think for this reason bring back some range into his kit without the charge, then make it a little bit better than before with the charge. But we will get more into that later. Anyways onwards!

I just want to start off with the direction that I am taking Hydroid in according with how DE has taken him. Many people want severe reworks and just to get rid of his kit but I on the other hand like the direction he is in. I wish to make Hydroid a frame that jumps in and out of his Undertow(3) since that seems to be what he is centered around now. For this to happen a simple change to his passive that shouldn't be (hopefully) too hard to code, but I've never coded before myself haha. He would be invincible when exiting his undertow via his passive, to do damage and what not when out of undertow, then only to sink back into the depths of the oceans. Making this would give him the ability to jump in and out of undertow rather than sitting in it a long amount of time. 

Passive: Whenever Hydroid deals finisher damage to an enemy and that enemy dies after a few second, Hydroid will become invincible for the next 7-10 seconds with a cooldown of 10 seconds. Turning into a water form avoiding all forms of damage. The timer wouldn't start until he comes out of undertow.

While hitting the ground seems useful for tentacles, it doesn't really help his kit out currently. This passive would bring a lot of his kit together without making him completely different. 

1. Tempest Barrage:

This Ability is his bread and butter, I very much appreciate the buffs to it, so that it can be charged for increased duration! And casting it in undertow helps a lot too. There isn't anything I would do to this ability. It's great versus nullies and its great to cut off enemies and his augment makes it great for stripping armor! I appreciate the slight duration increase too and the faster cast/single handed animation cast. 

2. Tidal Surge:

Great ability, great synergy, and allows you to move quickly and CC while in undertow. The only change I would do to this, is not reduce the speed and range when in undertow OR increase the speed of his Undertow. Either one would be simply a QOL change, and if you cast it in Undertow reducing the energy cost would be nice too. 

3. Undertow (Puddle Pirate!):

I never thought he would be so cool when turning into a puddle but this is awesome! His whole kit works so well together its just the practicability of using your weapons which is where the passive comes in. The only thing I would change would be allowing allies to shoot into the pool and Hydroid converts the damage dealt into finisher damage. 

4. Tentacle Swarm: 

The only thing I would change (other than buffing his range if you want to) would be to allow you to either target your undertow to summon the Kraken or target somewhere else for the normal effect. The ability to summon the tentacles right on top of undertow is actually great even though some people are whining about it. This gives great control to what exactly the player wants to do with them. Thanks you so much for making it as single handed ability too ^.^. i appreciate the mobility.

In Addition:

I'm sure this will be patched but make his 2 and 3 bring enemies with him instead of spitting them out. Make Natural Talent affect the charging of his 1 and 4. Please give him the ability to reload back while in Undertow too.  

Other than these comments I don't think I will post anymore about Hydroid, I really would like the passive I mentioned for him as i think that would fix a lot of his problems, and the ability for allies to shoot into his undertow would also help his damage. 

Thanks for the rework and good luck on it! 

 

Edited August 12, 2017 by SempaiMint
more comments

[FoxFX]

1 minute ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Why does Hydroid have more armor than rhino?

I believe they made this change to make Hydroid less squishy especially if a player wishes to use a fully charged Tempest Barrage or Tentacle Swarm

[MirageKnight]

I feel like Hydroid's definitely more fun to play with as his skills have interesting and useful synergy now and they also added in some desirable and needed QoL changes (stat buffs etc.). The revisit to Hydroid is definitely a step in the right direction.

Having had a chance to play around a bit more though, he needs a bit more tweaking. I think the energy cost for moving around while Undertow is active might be a bit too restrictive: I think it's enough that you need to expend energy to use Tidal Surge if you want to move faster with Undertow active, plus you have the existing drain from Undertow being active anyway. Enemies drawn into Undertow definitely need to move with you if you move and damage to enemies ought to scale a bit better.

Tentacle Swarm and Tempest Barrage definitely need to have a charge indicator on the HUD, preferably around the target reticle: Relying exclusively on the environment for clues as to the area that will be affected is very limiting, especially when you have varying terrain and various obstacles around...not to mention lighting and complex textures. On the topic of the base AoE range nerfs, I can see why DE did that, but I think the nerfs were perhaps a bit too harsh and I'm a bit irked that those particular changes weren't mentioned at all.

I can understand DE being a bit conservative with their changes, due to backlash from times past where things got out of hand and too powerful, but I think the changes are a bit too conservative.

[LordLimbo]

From a guy that liked hydroid pre rework but knew that he needed a bit of love:

 

i'm very happy with the changes you made to him and i believe you're taking him in a good direction but i feel like the fourth skill still needs just a tiny little bit more.

 

i believe that the tentacles should MOVE with us if we cast them while channeling puddle and remain channeling it. that would somehow transform us into the kraken! it would make us feel like the lord of the seas! and i think that would make him a bit more fun! and i need a bit of input from you guys (i'd like a response from a member of the staff about this)  regarding pilfering swarm. the general consensus on the community seems to be like the tentacles NEED to kill the enemies in order to get the extra loot. but i also read that in an old patch you changed it and enemies just needed to die while they were being grabbed by the tentacles making the source of the damage irrelevant, it would only matter the death of the enemy while being grabbed by the skill. please clarify regarding this subject and make it clear in the mod. now here's the thing. if enemies just need to die while being caught in the skill just leave it like that, because allies can kill them for us to get the extra loot and that would inspire people to co op a bit more. if enemies need to be killed BY THE TENTACLES, then tentacle swarm definitely needs a buff to compete against nekros (if u want to sell his PA that is, because nekros has it way easier in the farming department) scaling damage would be nice if this is the case. and just a little tip to close my comment: have you considered changing the mechanic behind the tentacle so that they would just constrict the enemies and hold them agains the floor? it would make it easier for enemies to be targeted by us and allies.

 

and please PLEASE let the color of the puddle be affected by energy color!!! i NEED RED WATER!! 

BTW great work on the rework, love the fact that we can click to bring enemies into the puddle from afar, that was a great idea from your part.

[Azamagon]

2 hours ago, TheGrimCorsair said:

It's cute that you're wrong. Tempest Barrage sets up ground finishers, doesn't turn you into a sitting duck to cast, and doesn't interrupt your reloading or weapon handling on account of being off-hand. Further, it's far more reliable at hitting enemies that you want to hit than your 4. It's also a lot less expensive, and doesn't make enemies wildly harder for your non-AoE targeting allies to harm them.

...or are you still using negative range? If you are, stop. It reduces the hit area of the individual projectiles dramatically, making it far less likely to hit. If you're in a situation where you need CC *right now* use your 2. That's what it's there for. Or 3.

 

Tentacle swarm vastly superior... not even in the slightest.

...

Way to not read my post fully (nor checking out all the new changes he has had)

1) Yes, Tempest Barrage sets enemies up for ground finishers (but so does Tidal Surge and Undertow, Undertow generally being a quicker, cheaper and more reliable tool for that job).
2) Tentacle Swarm is now ALSO "offhand" (it's called onehanded in Warframe, fyi). And like I said, even before, this didn't matter supermuch, cuz you could just cast it safely while aimgliding anyway.
3) Tempest Barrage is definitely NOT more reliable at hitting enemies. Tentacle Swarm, if cast at your enemies (doesn't need much aim though) will spawn the Tentacles right underneath them, guaranteeing hits (unless lag and such takes place, but that's another issue). Tempest Barrage can completely miss everything if you are unlucky, especially so due to its delay (the casttime can be adjusted more easily for Tentacle Swarm).
4) It's not a lot more expensive. Right now, Tentacle Swarm only costs twice as much (50 at base), but even so, before this update that didn't really matter with max efficiency and considering its somewhat powerful finisher damage. Tentacle Swarm is far more energy-efficient on small groups than Tempest Barrage will ever be. Especially with its augment.
5) I've never used negative range (except for when testing Tempest Barrage, but never liked it due to its extremely weak potency).

The ONLY things Tempest Barrage has over Tentacle Swarm are
1) a slightly cheaper cast (negliglble, due to its inefficiency)
2) it sets enemies up for groundfinishers (which #2 and #3 does better and more reliably anyway)
3) it can multiple instances active at once (which is moot, considering its very low duration)
4) and that its augment goes well with gunplay (its ONLY strength, really).

It even lost its onehanded cast superiority (as both can do that now).

But please, amuse me by trying to make me look wrong again.

[FoxFX]

1 minute ago, MirageKnight said:

I feel like Hydroid's definitely more fun to play with as his skills have interesting and useful synergy now and they also added in some desirable and needed QoL changes (stat buffs etc.). The revisit to Hydroid is definitely a step in the right direction.

Having had a chance to play around a bit more though, he needs a bit more tweaking. I think the energy cost for moving around while Undertow is active might be a bit too restrictive: I think it's enough that you need to expend energy to use Tidal Surge if you want to move faster with Undertow active, plus you have the existing drain from Undertow being active anyway. Enemies drawn into Undertow definitely need to move with you if you move and damage to enemies ought to scale a bit better.

Tentacle Swarm and Tempest Barrage definitely need to have a charge indicator on the HUD, preferably around the target reticle: Relying exclusively on the environment for clues as to the area that will be affected is very limiting, especially when you have varying terrain and various obstacles around...not to mention lighting and complex textures. On the topic of the base AoE range nerfs, I can see why DE did that, but I think the nerfs were perhaps a bit too harsh and I'm a bit irked that those particular changes weren't mentioned at all.

I can understand DE being a bit conservative with their changes, due to backlash from times past where things got out of hand and too powerful, but I think the changes are a bit too conservative.

 

The revisit of Hydroid does have its promises. Hydroid seems to excel best in long ranges with Tentacle Swarm and Tempest Barrage, but their striking power leaves some players to feel comfort with. He is a CC that can damage and avoid damage and drag enemies into his Undertow as a trap for attacking him close range.

 

I would suggest complete removal of Tempest Barrage and turn the ability into a slower paced Barrage that has a larger AOE explosion upon impact.

 

[FoxFX]

5 minutes ago, Azamagon said:

...

Way to not read my post fully (nor checking out all the new changes he has had)

1) Yes, Tempest Barrage sets enemies up for ground finishers (but so does Tidal Surge and Undertow, Undertow generally being a quicker, cheaper and more reliable tool for that job).
2) Tentacle Swarm is now ALSO "offhand" (it's called onehanded in Warframe, fyi). And like I said, even before, this didn't matter supermuch, cuz you could just cast it safely while aimgliding anyway.
3) Tempest Barrage is definitely NOT more reliable at hitting enemies. Tentacle Swarm, if cast at your enemies (doesn't need much aim though) will spawn the Tentacles right underneath them, guaranteeing hits (unless lag and such takes place, but that's another issue). Tempest Barrage can completely miss everything if you are unlucky, especially so due to its delay (the casttime can be adjusted more easily for Tentacle Swarm).
4) It's not a lot more expensive. Right now, Tentacle Swarm only costs twice as much (50 at base), but even so, before this update that didn't really matter with max efficiency and considering its somewhat powerful finisher damage. Tentacle Swarm is far more energy-efficient on small groups than Tempest Barrage will ever be. Especially with its augment.
5) I've never used negative range (except for when testing Tempest Barrage, but never liked it due to its extremely weak potency).

The ONLY things Tempest Barrage has over Tentacle Swarm are
1) a slightly cheaper cast (negliglble, due to its inefficiency)
2) it sets enemies up for groundfinishers (which #2 and #3 does better and more reliably anyway)
3) it can multiple instances active at once (which is moot, considering its very low duration)
4) and that its augment goes well with gunplay (its ONLY strength, really).

It even lost its onehanded cast superiority (as both can do that now).

But please, amuse me by trying to make me look wrong again.

 

There is also the fact that Tempest Barrage can hit enemies in Undertow now. I still don't see why Tentacle Swarm doesn't affect Undertow in such a way either though.

[cazadordoblekatana]

I can't see this as an upgrade to hyd, it's cool and all, but he has the same problem.

His abilities don't make a remarkable difference in battle, the experience i get from playing with him is:

''what can i do in this situation? I can knockdown the enemies with my first, or i can do the same thing with my 2. Or i can wait 3 min to kill them with the 3rd, or waste 100 energy and use the kraken..''

In resume, playing with him doesn't grant me the experience of being a cool space ninja, it's more the opposite, i can feel weak and resourceless.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

1 minute ago, FoxFX said:

I believe they made this change to make Hydroid less squishy especially if a player wishes to use a fully charged Tempest Barrage or Tentacle Swarm

The charging aspect is meh. Why not just allow him to scale, rather than charging abilities which is just slowing him down, and using more energy. 

 

For example: when tempest barrage hits an enemy it should gain a % increase in damage based on the enemies over all health.

His 2 seems cool'ish

His 3 also seems neat, though damage should increase based on enemies health/shields/armor and multiplied by how many enemies are being effected.

His 4 should gain a damage bonus for every enemy effected and have a % chance to pull an enemy/enemies underneath and kill them instantly guaranteeing an energy orb drops for each enemy thats instakilled.

[Azamagon]

Just now, FoxFX said:

 

There is also the fact that Tempest Barrage can hit enemies in Undertow now. I still don't see why Tentacle Swarm doesn't affect Undertow in such a way either though.

That is true... but what is the point of TB being able to hit enemies in Undertow? TB has laughable damage, and barely ever manages to hit anything in there anyway. It's a waste of energy. Better to just let Undertow deal its scaling finisherdamage instead, sadly. I wish that wasn't the case though.

[cazadordoblekatana]

I know fans of hyd are gona disagree, but please, think before you do. ¿You disgree because of your subjective love, and haven't though on your opinion?

My opinion:

I can't see the ''buffs'' as an upgrade to hyd, it's cool and all, but he continues with the same problem.

His abilities don't make a remarkable difference in battle, the experience i get from playing with him is:

''what can i do in this situation? I can knockdown the enemies with my first, or i can do the same thing with my 2. Or i can wait 3 min to kill them with the 3rd, or waste 100 energy and use the kraken..''

In resume, playing with him doesn't grant me the experience of being a cool space ninja, it's more the opposite, i can feel weak and resourceless.

[Cytobel]

Okay, so I've been playing Hydroid, ane here's where I'm at mentally:  This revisit is an ill-considered mess that fails to address central issues while simultaneously weakening abilities unless you spend time charging them up (READ: Natural Talent is now a required, still non-Exilus mod).

If you liked him before, all the changes I've seen (aside from abilities being weakened pre-charge) are positive.  Point of fact, most of what's happened here is for the better.  Unfortunately, this doesn't fix reliance on RNGesus to save you (which he won't) when you cast skills, squishyness of the 'Frame, and mechanics left over from a very much previous iteneration of the game.  Hell, he still has a CHARGE, a skill he is TERRIBLY poorly equipped to utilize (synergy with Undertow actually serving to highlight his squishy nature).

Hydroid lovers will still love him, but nothing here makes me feel new players will be drawn in.  In that light, this is not near to a done state yet.  This version of Hydroid still won't sell Prime Access, and the weapons there aren't exactly promising either, so I'm feeling like we're gonna see some more done before this is over.

 

[Soapbomb]

I don't think that Hydroid will ever be more than a gimmick frame in anyone's eyes with his current kit, though I wouldn't say that is the worst place for him to be. Gimmicks can be fun, though the vast majority of the player base will pass them up for the path of least resistance. Wasting my resources on sub-par weapons and builds has lead to some of the most fun I have had with this game. Given the relatively small tweaks DE seems to be willing to make on this sort of rework, I will try to limit my suggestions to minor ones as well.

I was really hoping that Tempest Barrage would end up being more useful than it was before the rework. I remember having a great time making a duration/efficiency hybrid build and stacking multiple casts in one place. The main problem there was the requirement to spam the ability every couple seconds, almost like old Desecrate. On top of the horrible duration, Tempest Barrage is highly inaccurate. Before the rework, I would have loved to see an increase to the base duration and either a two to three times increase in the amount projectiles or some sort of tracking added to the projectiles. Allowing us to charge the ability for double duration is a nice fix there, though it does not fix the inaccuracy. I also seem to remember this ability benefiting from range, though the wiki says only its explosions are. This allowed you to focus the barrage much more than you can now, though my suggestion of more strikes per second or more accurate strikes would somewhat alleviate this problem.

Tidal Surge is honestly a bad ability. Its currently just another pre-rework Slash Dash/Rhino Charge. I don't know what can be done for it, though something similar to those two's reworks would be great. Its augment is horribly impractical and is in need of a page one rewrite.

Tentacle Swarm is a decent enough ability, given you have Pilfering swarm equipped. Its main problem, just like Tempest Barrage, is its inaccuracy. This has been alleviated a bit with the tracking changes, though the tentacles are never where you want them to be. I would suggest that Undertow be given the ability to evenly distribute his current tentacles to the edge of the puddle. This would allow more focused protection of defense targets and better doorway coverage. 

I would also like to agree that energy usage should be considered more when DE make these reworks. Chain-smoking energy restores is not healthy and polymer bundles don't grow on trees. I treat my energy restores as those "what if I need it later" item and consider a warframe to be improperly designed if I need to use them on any sort of regular basis.

Hydroid is a direct competitor to Nekros. Given that Nekros has health conversion and four very good augments, I don't thing Hydroid will ever be considered better. I would love to be proven wrong, though its going to take a lot of work to get him there.

[PsiWarp]

Hydroid isn't a frame you go for when you want instant gratification. He requires setup, his abilities have delays before they take effect, ability damage is unremarkable and doesn't scale well like many other frames, and to get access to a lot more attractive options you need his augments.

He's more about spamming down multiple barrages from afar, surfing into and out of combat, collecting enemies into his pool via grab while staying safe, and bringing tentacles into a clustercluck to spank enemies he grouped up. But is it worthwhile to need that much setup? Not really, the reward for your effort and energy investment is not enough, IMO.

[FoxFX]

3 minutes ago, Cytobel said:

Okay, so I've been playing Hydroid, ane here's where I'm at mentally:  This revisit is an ill-considered mess that fails to address central issues while simultaneously weakening abilities unless you spend time charging them up (READ: Natural Talent is now a required, still non-Exilus mod).

If you liked him before, all the changes I've seen (aside from abilities being weakened pre-charge) are positive.  Point of fact, most of what's happened here is for the better.  Unfortunately, this doesn't fix reliance on RNGesus to save you (which he won't) when you cast skills, squishyness of the 'Frame, and mechanics left over from a very much previous iteneration of the game.  Hell, he still has a CHARGE, a skill he is TERRIBLY poorly equipped to utilize (synergy with Undertow actually serving to highlight his squishy nature).

Hydroid lovers will still love him, but nothing here makes me feel new players will be drawn in.  In that light, this is not near to a done state yet.  This version of Hydroid still won't sell Prime Access, and the weapons there aren't exactly promising either, so I'm feeling like we're gonna see some more done before this is over.

 

 

Would you suggest removing the random nature of Tempest Barrage then and turn the ability into a larger explosion barrage that will attack a single point but at a slower rate?

[HawkFang022]

Suggested changes to Hydroid Undertow

The present state of Hydroid Undertow, in regards to Crowd Control.  Function is to, deal damage over time by drowning “Hydroid’s” enemies.

This is ultimately flawed by 2 common problems.  As it removes enemies from the Game Feel and once the enemy is removed, the only damage that can be dealt to said enemy is the damage that is done by Hydroid’s Undertow.  So any chance of additional melee damage (by your allies) is impossible.  Because Undertow has removed said enemy completely from feel.

 

Now my suggestion, Instead of Undertow, completely removing the enemy from game.

Only the lower body (half) of the enemy will be submerged by water (Undertow) (think of it similar to quicksand if you will) while leaving his upper body exposed the enemy is now susceptible to additional damage by your allies.  Therefore, exposing the enemy to additional damage melee or otherwise possible.  While preventing said enemy from attacking your ally, and It could still deal damage over time.

 

As an additional bonus, Hydroid would still be able to drown enemies by pulling them in (using the fire button as Undertow). I believe that's a new feature that was added in this rework.  It's only the enemies that walk on the puddle (Undertow), that would have their lower body submerged.

This is only an elaborate aversion of a post that I made earlier (Page.27)

Edited August 12, 2017 by HawkFang022

[Ceadeus]

Since the abilities effectively have 2 different power levels can we get that represented in the abilities window?  (IE: X damage at minimum charge - X damage at maximum charge)